Register now to remove this ad

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 114

Thread: JF Fired, New Thread, Please see new link

  1. #31
    About now, all the Farrell apologists should be eating some crow or have egg on their faces or some other appropriate idiom. LOL!!!
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  2. #32
    Farrell, on the whole, was a successful manager with the Red Sox. One World Series Championship and two division titles in 5 seasons. He was the victim of bad personnel moves in 2014 and 2015 in addition to some major drop offs in key player performances. He also faced the personal challenge of cancer in the middle of the 2015 season. All in all, nothing to be ashamed of and plenty to be proud of. Despite the firing, he can leave with his head held high.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    Farrell, on the whole, was a successful manager with the Red Sox. One World Series Championship and two division titles in 5 seasons. He was the victim of bad personnel moves in 2014 and 2015 in addition to some major drop offs in key player performances. He also faced the personal challenge of cancer in the middle of the 2015 season. All in all, nothing to be ashamed of and plenty to be proud of. Despite the firing, he can leave with his head held high.
    Hey back to back last place finishes and back to back Division titles in 4 years will be hard to match.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Hey back to back last place finishes and back to back Division titles in 4 years will be hard to match.
    You left out the WS Championship. And yes, it may be hard to match. Making the playoffs in 3 out of 5 seasons is not easy.

  5. #35
    I have been a fan since 1986 - if you rack and stack the Red Sox managers? Distinct dropoff between #3 and #4.

    1. Terry Francona
    2. Jimy Williams
    3. Joe Morgan
    4. Kevin Kennedy
    5. John McNamara
    6. Bobby Valentine
    7. Joe Kerrigan
    8. Butch Hobson

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    You left out the WS Championship. And yes, it may be hard to match. Making the playoffs in 3 out of 5 seasons is not easy.
    This is true.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    About now, all the Farrell apologists should be eating some crow or have egg on their faces or some other appropriate idiom. LOL!!!
    I am certainly one of the apologists even though I too have expressed dismay on occasion. In the event, as I said elsewhere, I have always believed that no manager is indispensable. Some are better than others, no doubt, but all are expendable.

    But since you brought this up, I would add the following--

    First, to remind, I am fine with Farrell being fired for whatever reason.

    Second, however, he did manage a team that won the AL East 3 times and the WS once in 5 years.

    Third, granted, he lost three straight to the Indians last year and 3 of 4 to the Astros, but in both instances had starting pitchers who absolutely stunk--Price and Porcello in 2016 and Sale, Pomeranz, Fister, and Porcello this year. On top of that his ace reliever Kimbrel absolutely blew game 4 this year.

    Fourth, of the four teams--Cleveland, Houston, New York, and Boston--in the ALDS, the Red Sox had by far the lowest net runs scored--+117. The other three, in order, had +254, +196, and +198. Interestingly, two of the latter three are in the ALCS. And, if the Nationals beat the Cubs, they and the Dodgers will also constitute 2 of the top 3 in the NL in net runs scored (the 3d is Arizona).

    Fifth, the Sox had by far the best record in MLB this year in extra inning games, which are those games mostly likely to demand more of a manager.

    Sixth, however, I mean it when I say I have no quarrel with DD's decision. Yes, Ortiz was gone. Yes, Price spent a lot of time on the DL. Nevertheless, there was some real talent on this team and it is entirely possible Farrell did not get the most out of what he had. I don't think so, but don't mind saying I could be wrong.

    Seventh, on the other hand, espn, ever the rabble rousers, have a new article on the Sox: "With Farrell gone, Red Sox are all Dave Dombrowski's mess now." I personally think DD has done more good than harm and also think John Henry won't want to fire him. Still, Price needs to deliver on that hefty price tag, Porcello does too, Sale may need to be rested more than a typical ace would need to be, I still have my doubts about Pomeranz, the Sox may in fact need to hire a big bat, etc.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    I have been a fan since 1986 - if you rack and stack the Red Sox managers? Distinct dropoff between #3 and #4.

    1. Terry Francona
    2. Jimy Williams
    3. Joe Morgan
    4. Kevin Kennedy
    5. John McNamara
    6. Bobby Valentine
    7. Joe Kerrigan
    8. Butch Hobson
    Where's Farrell?

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Where's Farrell?
    Above Valentine, i would hope!
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "When you're dead, you don't know you're dead.
    It's only difficult for other people.

    It works the same way for stupid."

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Where's Farrell?
    OOPS!

    1. Terry Francona
    2. Jimy Williams
    3. Joe Morgan
    4. John Farrell
    5. Kevin Kennedy
    6. John McNamara
    7. Bobby Valentine
    8. Joe Kerrigan
    9. Butch Hobson

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    OOPS!

    1. Terry Francona
    2. Jimy Williams
    3. Joe Morgan
    4. John Farrell
    5. Kevin Kennedy
    6. John McNamara
    7. Bobby Valentine
    8. Joe Kerrigan
    9. Butch Hobson
    Grady Little?
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  12. #42
    1. Terry Francona (no question)
    2. Joe Morgan (2 divisions with not a lot of talent, who can forget "these guys aren't as good as they think they are" after he was let go)
    3. Jimy Williams (went back and forth between him and JF, in the end, the 2 last place finishes knocked Farrell down)
    4. John Farrell (1 title is a big plus)
    5. John McNamara (2 mediocre seasons sandwiched around what should have been the year)
    6. Kevin Kennedy (1 unexpected division title)
    7. Grady Little (blew the 2003 pennant)
    8. Butch Hobson (ranks above the other 2 only because of the talent he had, see Joe Morgans comment above)
    9. Bobby Valentine (disaster with a very good team on paper)
    10. Joe Kerrigan (the fact that he lasted about 40 games says a lot)
    Last edited by illinoisredsox; 10-12-2017 at 04:08 PM.
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    I am certainly one of the apologists even though I too have expressed dismay on occasion. In the event, as I said elsewhere, I have always believed that no manager is indispensable. Some are better than others, no doubt, but all are expendable.

    But since you brought this up, I would add the following--

    First, to remind, I am fine with Farrell being fired for whatever reason.

    Second, however, he did manage a team that won the AL East 3 times and the WS once in 5 years.

    Third, granted, he lost three straight to the Indians last year and 3 of 4 to the Astros, but in both instances had starting pitchers who absolutely stunk--Price and Porcello in 2016 and Sale, Pomeranz, Fister, and Porcello this year. On top of that his ace reliever Kimbrel absolutely blew game 4 this year.

    Fourth, of the four teams--Cleveland, Houston, New York, and Boston--in the ALDS, the Red Sox had by far the lowest net runs scored--+117. The other three, in order, had +254, +196, and +198. Interestingly, two of the latter three are in the ALCS. And, if the Nationals beat the Cubs, they and the Dodgers will also constitute 2 of the top 3 in the NL in net runs scored (the 3d is Arizona).

    Fifth, the Sox had by far the best record in MLB this year in extra inning games, which are those games mostly likely to demand more of a manager.

    Sixth, however, I mean it when I say I have no quarrel with DD's decision. Yes, Ortiz was gone. Yes, Price spent a lot of time on the DL. Nevertheless, there was some real talent on this team and it is entirely possible Farrell did not get the most out of what he had. I don't think so, but don't mind saying I could be wrong.

    Seventh, on the other hand, espn, ever the rabble rousers, have a new article on the Sox: "With Farrell gone, Red Sox are all Dave Dombrowski's mess now." I personally think DD has done more good than harm and also think John Henry won't want to fire him. Still, Price needs to deliver on that hefty price tag, Porcello does too, Sale may need to be rested more than a typical ace would need to be, I still have my doubts about Pomeranz, the Sox may in fact need to hire a big bat, etc.
    I did not expect Farrell to get fired until I listened to him being savaged on WEEI. They seemed to have inside information that he had very bad standing in the clubhouse.
    Last edited by a700hitter; 10-12-2017 at 04:23 PM.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    I did not expect Farrell to get fired until I listened to him being savaged on WEEI. They seemed to have inside information that he had very bad standing in the clubhouse.

    I also didn't think it would make much difference if he stayed or if he got fired. I was not beating a drum for him to be fired... not at all. I can say that with a straight fac, because it is true. On the other hand, you really can't say with a straight face that you were not a Farrell apologist. Are you serious? You gave him a pass on everything.

    Ah, where does he say he was not an apologist? You may want to reread his post, paying close attention to the first sentence.

    I get that you don't like max, whatever. But you don't get to take that bias and warp what he actually said into your own narrative.
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    Ah, where does he say he was not an apologist? You may want to reread his post, paying close attention to the first sentence.

    I get that you don't like max, whatever. But you don't get to take that bias and warp what he actually said into your own narrative.
    Good point. He is an admitted apologist and as such should be eating crow as the FO took hours to decide that Farrell had to go, so the consensus must have been that he was doing a shitty job.

    I have edited my post accordingly.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •