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Thread: Stanton or Votto

  1. #1

    Stanton or Votto

    Who would be preferable as an acquisition, 34 year-old Votto for $20M over the next 7 seasons or 27 year-old Stanton for an average of $30 million per season over the next 10 seasons assuming he doesn't opt out after 2020.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ottojo01.shtml


    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stantmi03.shtml

    Getting around Stanton's record-sized contract (13 years, $325 million) is something else entirely. He's only in the third season of it, and the big money has yet to come:
    Year Age Salary
    2018 28 $25,000,000
    2019 29 $26,000,000
    2020 30 $26,000,000
    2021 31 $29,000,000
    2022 32 $29,000,000
    2023 33 $32,000,000
    2024 34 $32,000,000
    2025 35 $32,000,000
    2026 36 $29,000,000
    2027 37 $25,000,000
    2028 38 $25M Option, $10M Buyout

    That's a total of $295 million spread out over 10 years with the buyout. It's less daunting than $325 million, sure, but still $20 million more than MLB's second-richest contract: Alex Rodriguez's 10-year, $275 million pact from 2007.

    Stanton's deal also includes full no-trade protection and an opt-out after 2020, which makes the deal massive, awkwardly shaped and thus not an easy thing to transfer from one set of hands to another.

  2. #2
    Neither is a reasonable target for the Red Sox.

  3. #3
    With Stanton, the money is doable for the Sox. It all depends how much talent the Marlins want in return.

  4. #4
    Stanton - though his past durability issues give serious pause. While Votto PROBABLY will be a useful hitter for another 3 seasons (and maybe more due to his approach) that is hard to swallow.

  5. #5
    I've watched Votto a lot, following the Reds like I do. The only thing I can say against him is that sometimes he has stretches where he gets in his own head and goes into a funk. He's not nearly as bad about that as he used to be though, may not be an issue.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by harmony View Post
    Neither is a reasonable target for the Red Sox.
    Agreed.

  7. #7
    Votto has a no trade, he seems to not like the spotlight and won't waive the no trade.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Station 13 View Post
    Votto has a no trade, he seems to not like the spotlight and won't waive the no trade.
    Stanton also has a no trade clause...

  9. #9
    Stanton wants out, wants to play for a contender. There is no evidence that Votto wants out.

    I would rather have Stanton, he is younger than Votto, but I'm skeptical the Red Sox can acquire him without giving up something like Devers or Beinintendi. Will the Marlins really move Stanton as a salary dump? If yes, I'm all in. If not, the Red Sox don't have the minor talent to acquire him.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Examiner View Post
    I've watched Votto a lot, following the Reds like I do. The only thing I can say against him is that sometimes he has stretches where he gets in his own head and goes into a funk. He's not nearly as bad about that as he used to be though, may not be an issue.
    Votto is probably the best pure hitter in the league - combining power, production and being able to take good at bats

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    Votto is probably the best pure hitter in the league - combining power, production and being able to take good at bats
    But for how much longer? He is now 34 years old.

  12. #12
    Stanton can be had for prospects and salary relief. A big market club might not like the contract, but the fact that it saves $45 mil over those 10 seasons in lux tax accounting is big as well. Yes, they're actually paying him $29.5 mil per year for 10 years, but for lux tax purposes, it is down to $25 mil, which could be a big deal assuming he doesn't opt out. The problem with the sox, though, is I don't think they have the prospects to get a deal for Stanton done. Stanton's contract essentially drops his return assuming the Marlins want complete salary relief. Devers or Beni would be an insane overpay. If I were Boston, I'd try to go with Bradley plus Groome and Chavis. This would give the Marlins salary relief and the ability to flip Bradley for more prospects.
    Last edited by jacksonianmarch; 10-22-2017 at 07:24 PM.
    The rebuild is complete.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Stanton can be had for prospects and salary relief. A big market club might not like the contract, but the fact that it saves $45 mil over those 10 seasons in lux tax accounting is big as well. Yes, they're actually paying him $29.5 mil per year for 10 years, but for lux tax purposes, it is down to $25 mil, which could be a big deal assuming he doesn't opt out. The problem with the sox, though, is I don't think they have the prospects to get a deal for Stanton done. Stanton's contract essentially drops his return assuming the Marlins want complete salary relief. Devers or Beni would be an insane overpay. If I were Boston, I'd try to go with Bradley plus Groome and Chavis. This would give the Marlins salary relief and the ability to flip Bradley for more prospects.
    My guess is nobody offers more than JBJ, Groome and Chavis, so I'd start with an offer of Groome, Chavis, Beeks & Haley. Maybe we can add Castillo or HRam to lessen the salary hit. (We could pay some of their salary.) We'd then have to give more...

    HRam, JBJ, Groome, Chavis, Beeks and Flores for Stanton.

    We'd actually save money in 2018 as HRam and JBJ will make more than Stanton, and we'd save on the luxury tax. This would allow us to get Stanton plus one from JD Martinez or Mustakas and a guy like Duda, Cobb or even Cozart.

    I realize the marlins want to cut $25M in 2018, and this does not help, but they could flip JBJ and maybe dump HRam for a partial loss.


  14. #14
    Dumping HRam coming off shoulder surgery before the season would have to be a complete loss. And I think you are downplaying what Stanton's market will be. There will be plenty of teams interested, the question is, how much salary will Jeter eat to get the maximum return?
    The rebuild is complete.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Dumping HRam coming off shoulder surgery before the season would have to be a complete loss. And I think you are downplaying what Stanton's market will be. There will be plenty of teams interested, the question is, how much salary will Jeter eat to get the maximum return?
    Stanton's salary will keep many teams away, and it is known to everyone the Marlins are looking to dump $25M next year.

    I could be wrong on my estimate of what it will take to get Stanton, and the Sox can afford to take on 100% of Stanton's salary. I just mentioned HRam as a possibility, and I'd add more prospects, if they took him. (I don't think he's a total loss of 2018.)

    I'd be willing to offer more than JBJ, Chavis and Groome, but I doubt it takes more.

    My guess is Jeter might look more long term, like a 5 year plan, and might be more interested in Mata, Scherff and Flores than Chavis and/or JBJ.

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