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Thread: Stanton or Votto

  1. #16
    Moon, Jeter cannot deal off Stanton and get a lottery ticket. He'd need either big league talent or blue chip talent. I doubt he'd be terribly interested in guys who are multiple years away at least as a headliner.
    The rebuild is complete.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Moon, Jeter cannot deal off Stanton and get a lottery ticket. He'd need either big league talent or blue chip talent. I doubt he'd be terribly interested in guys who are multiple years away at least as a headliner.
    Why can't he? He might lose all 4 fans he has now?

    Marlin fans are used to cleaning house.

    Jeter will take the best package offered that fits into his plan and timetable. I seriously doubt he's looking to compete in 2018. To me, the question is more about wanting prospects projected to be ML ready by 2019ish (Chavis, Beeks, Houck or Shawaryn) of by 2021ish (Groome, Mata, Flores, Scherff or Brannen). He may want a mix.

    If he gets JBJ, he'll flip him before 2018 anyways.

    The death of Fernandez ruined any chance the Marlins had with such a limited budget. Jeter knows that and will plan to have a team "come together" by a certain year. He's not dumb.


  3. #18
    No, he isn't. But getting players like Scherff aren't going to help his prospects as those players are freshly drafted and haven't really separated themselves yet. When you deal a guy like Stanton, you get blue chip prospects.
    The rebuild is complete.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    No, he isn't. But getting players like Scherff aren't going to help his prospects as those players are freshly drafted and haven't really separated themselves yet. When you deal a guy like Stanton, you get blue chip prospects.
    JBJ or Bogey could be traded for a blue chip prospect (or two) that has separated himself already, then sent to Miami. Add 2-3 from Groome, Chavis, Mata, Houck and Flores and I think the Marlins say yes. Maybe someone else offers better. Like I said, I could be wrong on what it takes, but Stanton's salary puts a huge hurt on whoever gets him.

  5. #20
    I think Groome and Chavis are given. I also think you will have to send a big leaguer who they could either keep for a season and rebuild their value or deal on their own and get more prospects.
    The rebuild is complete.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    JBJ or Bogey could be traded for a blue chip prospect (or two) that has separated himself already, then sent to Miami. Add 2-3 from Groome, Chavis, Mata, Houck and Flores and I think the Marlins say yes. Maybe someone else offers better. Like I said, I could be wrong on what it takes, but Stanton's salary puts a huge hurt on whoever gets him.
    I agree that Bradley could be traded for a blue chip especially in today's run prevention environment. But I disagree on Bogaerts. Right now, Bogaerts is a broken player. He may recover, he may not, but his trade value will reflect the fact that his future production is pretty uncertain. To top it off, he will be a free agent in a few years (limited team control) and he sucks at fielding. If he doesn't hit, he isn't all that useful and I'm not sure about his bat. Some guys don't recover--A.Craig was a pretty good offensive player who never recovered. There are more examples.

    You either trade Bogaerts when his trade value is way down or you hold on to Bogaerts and hope he can fulfill some of his offensive potential. The latter course of action makes more sense IMO.

    Dombrowski has made a lot of mistakes. I think the Sale deal is going to be a real killer in a few years. The Red Sox are going to need a starting 2b very soon, maybe as early as next season and Moncada could be 30-30 player (with a lot of strikeouts). I also think Kopech is going to be an ace. I don't want Dombrowski emptying out the farm system beyond what he has already done. Sure, trade for Stanton if the Marlins asking price is low; otherwise, live with what you have and sign M.Machado after the season.
    Last edited by Fan_since_Boggs; 10-22-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    I agree that Bradley could be traded for a blue chip especially in today's run prevention environment. But I disagree on Bogaerts. Right now, Bogaerts is a broken player. He may recover, he may not, but his trade value will reflect the fact that his future production is pretty uncertain. To top it off, he will be a free agent in a few years (limited team control) and he sucks at fielding. If he doesn't hit, he isn't all that useful and I'm not sure about his bat. Some guys don't recover--A.Craig was a pretty good offensive player who never recovered. There are more examples.

    You either trade Bogaerts when his trade value is way down or you hold on to Bogaerts and hope he can fulfill some of his offensive potential. The latter course of action makes more sense IMO.

    Dombrowski has made a lot of mistakes. I think the Sale deal is going to be a real killer in a few years. The Red Sox are going to need a starting 2b very soon, maybe as early as next season and Moncada could be 30-30 player (with a lot of strikeouts). I also think Kopech is going to be an ace. I don't want Dombrowski emptying out the farm system beyond what he has already done. Sure, trade for Stanton if the Marlins asking price is low; otherwise, live with what you have and sign M.Machado after the season.
    Bogey has the 4th highest SS WAR over the last 3 years combined.

    GMs do not significantly devalue a player of his age due to one "off year" that may have been affected by an injury. Bogey would likely bring more than a blue chipper. He has 2 arb years left and many teams could use an upgrade at SS.

    Waiting for 2019 wastes one of the years left in "the window".

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I think Groome and Chavis are given. I also think you will have to send a big leaguer who they could either keep for a season and rebuild their value or deal on their own and get more prospects.
    Again, why waste a year's value of a vet for one year, when they will not be competing?

    No extra fans will come, because JBJ is playing for a year before being traded.

    Any vet they get should be flipped immediately, of a 3 team trade can be organized.

    I'm not sure about what Jeter will be looking for: ML ready prospects, 2-4 years away prospects or both. I seriously doubt he looks for a player that is a star already, unless it's someone like Beni who can be part of a 3-5 year plan.

    JBJ and Bogey will be free agents by the time the Marlins could conceivably be contenders.


  9. #24
    Trading Bogey makes no fucking sense.

    He is what he is at SS which is decent with limited range going to his left. I can live with that.

    Unlike last year when he started to slide offensively after the break and then for the most part started to hit again, this year his wrist injury was likely holding him back.

    Saying he sucks or that he can and should be replaced by another SS that has terminal problems at the plate is just stupid. Do any of you guys remember the revolving door

    when Nomar was dealt? You want to go through that shit again? Dumb.

    I fully expect Bogey to get back to being a .300 hitter next season if his wrist / hand issues are not a problem.

    As dumb an idea it is to trade Bogey, I would trade any position player on this team not named Betts if it involved getting Stanton ( or another premium player ).
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by harmony View Post
    Neither is a reasonable target for the Red Sox.
    Agree. I don't see us landing either one.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Dumping HRam coming off shoulder surgery before the season would have to be a complete loss. And I think you are downplaying what Stanton's market will be. There will be plenty of teams interested, the question is, how much salary will Jeter eat to get the maximum return?
    None

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Trading Bogey makes no fucking sense.

    He is what he is at SS which is decent with limited range going to his left. I can live with that.

    Unlike last year when he started to slide offensively after the break and then for the most part started to hit again, this year his wrist injury was likely holding him back.

    Saying he sucks or that he can and should be replaced by another SS that has terminal problems at the plate is just stupid. Do any of you guys remember the revolving door

    when Nomar was dealt? You want to go through that shit again? Dumb.

    I fully expect Bogey to get back to being a .300 hitter next season if his wrist / hand issues are not a problem.

    As dumb an idea it is to trade Bogey, I would trade any position player on this team not named Betts if it involved getting Stanton ( or another premium player ).
    Nobody wants Bogey. He's already in his 2nd year of arbitration. Sox will NOT get anything in value. Similar to Pedey. You couldn't even give Pedey away without even NOT getting a player in return. THINK ABOUT THAT!

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Nobody wants Bogey. He's already in his 2nd year of arbitration. Sox will NOT get anything in value. Similar to Pedey. You couldn't even give Pedey away without even NOT getting a player in return. THINK ABOUT THAT!
    Of course you're not getting anything for Pedroia right now. He's 34 and he's contemplating knee surgery. Doesn't mean it's been a bad contract.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Nobody wants Bogey. He's already in his 2nd year of arbitration. Sox will NOT get anything in value. Similar to Pedey. You couldn't even give Pedey away without even NOT getting a player in return. THINK ABOUT THAT!
    Xander Bogaerts may well have diminished trade value after a somewhat disappointing season but the 25-year-old shortstop certainly has trade value after posting a combined 12.5 fWAR the past three years.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Trading Bogey makes no fucking sense.

    He is what he is at SS which is decent with limited range going to his left. I can live with that.

    Unlike last year when he started to slide offensively after the break and then for the most part started to hit again, this year his wrist injury was likely holding him back.

    Saying he sucks or that he can and should be replaced by another SS that has terminal problems at the plate is just stupid. Do any of you guys remember the revolving door

    when Nomar was dealt? You want to go through that shit again? Dumb.

    I fully expect Bogey to get back to being a .300 hitter next season if his wrist / hand issues are not a problem.

    As dumb an idea it is to trade Bogey, I would trade any position player on this team not named Betts if it involved getting Stanton ( or another premium player ).
    If we trade Bogey for prospects need to get Stanton. My idea is not to replace him with Lin/Marrero/Hernandez. I'd sign Cozart and Duda.

    I'm not "for" trading Bogey, but if that's what it takes to get Stanton, then I'd strongly consider it.

    Since Stanton plays the OF, trading JBJ and his 3 years of control would probably bring back better prospects than Bogey's 2 years of control, so that may make more sense.

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