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Thread: Astros Success

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's the second championship in a row for teams that used the 'Tank and Rebuild' approach.
    So why fret over the impending "Cliff".

    Especially with the Sox budget.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxnCycles View Post
    Pretty amazing.
    That is amazing. A lot of their other predictions not so much.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    A mode that would never be tolerated in Boston.
    Not so sure about that.

    The Celtics did not exactly "tank" as such but they purged the roster to rebuild and now it is all coming together for them.

    All the while the fan base remained loyal.

    Of course Danny Ainge probably has a shit-ton more cred in this town than Dombrowski.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    A mode that would never be tolerated in Boston.
    We already finished last in 3 years in 4 seasons, so finishing last has been tolerated. Unfortunately, our FO did it the wrong way. They did this while still managing to spend $200 million on annual payroll and doling out a number of budget choking long term deals. If you are sending out last place teams, payroll should be preserved.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    We already finished last in 3 years in 4 seasons, so finishing last has been tolerated. Unfortunately, our FO did it the wrong way. They did this while still managing to spend $200 million on annual payroll and doling out a number of budget choking long term deals. If you are sending out last place teams, payroll should be preserved.
    Yes Sir.

    In that light the Sox have been an embarrassment.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  6. #21
    Back on the old Boston Globe forum Houston was criticized for a baseball-low $44.5 million payroll in 2014 despite receiving revenue-sharing funds from other clubs. Critics contended the Astros should not receive revenue sharing if they weren't going to spend it on personnel.

    I drew the analogy to the person who sets aside savings instead of living paycheck to paycheck. Those savings come in handy at the proper time.

    Houston was in a position to acquire Justin Verlander (and Josh Reddick, Brian McCann and Carlos Beltran) when many other teams weren't.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    We kind of did in 2014-15
    Not to get too far afield, but I do think it could have been executed better.

    Miller/Rodriguez was the only real veteran-for-prospect deal we made. The Lackey trade was and remains horrible; Lester to the A's was not as bad, but it, and the Cards deal, were clearly based on the organization's (unrealistic, as it turned out) belief that they would be able to contend in 2015. We'd have been better off getting the best prospects we could for both of those guys and for any other veterans with value (Uehara comes to mind).

    I felt coming into 2015 that we were probably still at least a year away from being true contenders, and all we got out of denying that fact and insisting on trying to "compete every year" was an 84-loss season and residual contracts like Porcello (2 mediocre years out of 3 so far), Hanley (ditto), and Sandoval that are hampering our payroll and roster flexibility now that we are in a position to compete.
    Last edited by Jack Flap; 11-02-2017 at 01:08 PM.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  8. #23
    The Astros also held on to nearly all their good prospects. Chris Russo on MLB Network ripped them for doinh nothing at the trade deadline last year...

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    We already finished last in 3 years in 4 seasons, so finishing last has been tolerated. Unfortunately, our FO did it the wrong way. They did this while still managing to spend $200 million on annual payroll and doling out a number of budget choking long term deals. If you are sending out last place teams, payroll should be preserved.
    It was tolerated? By who?

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flap View Post
    Not to get too far afield, but I do think it could have been executed better.

    Miller/Rodriguez was the only real veteran-for-prospect deal we made. The Lackey trade was and remains horrible; Lester to the A's was not as bad, but it, and the Cards deal, were clearly based on the organization's (unrealistic, as it turned out) belief that they would be able to contend in 2015. We'd have been better off getting the best prospects we could for both of those guys and for any other veterans with value (Uehara comes to mind).

    I felt coming into 2015 that we were probably still at least a year away from being true contenders, and all we got out of denying that fact and insisting on trying to "compete every year" was an 84-loss season and residual contracts like Porcello (2 mediocre years out of 3 so far), Hanley (ditto), and Sandoval that are hampering our payroll and roster flexibility now that we are in a position to compete.
    OThey screwed up the sell-off in 2014 by trying to add major leaguers - I agree. But what I was referring to more was that they turned their team over to younger players over those years, the way the Yankees did. They had a couple of last place finishes where they played younger players ... but they also were still trying to win. The Yankees were certainly trying to win as well.

    Moreover - I have to push back on this idea that the Astros and Red Sox are galaxies apart here - the teams are fairly close.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    It was tolerated? By who?
    Tolerate is an interesting word. In one of the more extreme definitions, if something didn't kill you, you tolerated it.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    It was tolerated? By who?
    There's also a huge difference between an 84 loss season (which will rarely net you last place) and stringing 3 consecutive seasons of 106, 107 and 111 losses.
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    It was tolerated? By who?
    You make my point for me. They still have millions of fans, fill Fenway and made tons of money. They were no worse for the wear. In the end, we have no choice but to not go to the game, and Red Sox fans are diehard fans. So to say that a rebuild would not be tolerated for the Red Sox is bogus.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Tolerate is an interesting word. In one of the more extreme definitions, if something didn't kill you, you tolerated it.
    Excellent point. And Red Sox fans will remain loyal until their dying breaths.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  15. #30

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