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Thread: Kluber won AL Cy Young

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    That's a fair point. OTOH, there's also the point of saving the pen arms when possible.

    I can understand the argument for taking Sale out of that game, but I had no problem with leaving him in the game. He was breezing through that game.
    He was breezing, and that was part of the reason I was okay with it at the time. I thought it might even be a good thing for Sale's confidence to have such a dominating performance.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    The idea of resting Sale more during the season has merit, but not in the last week of baseball when you are fighting for the division. IMO, that makes no sense. I know for a fact that if Farrell had rested Sale and the Sox ended up losing the division, we'd never hear the end of how stupid Farrell was for not starting his best pitcher.

    Farrell got crucified for pushing Sale back one start before the west coast trip.
    I don't remember any Crucifixion as the "push back" did not take away a start from Sale at the end of the season.

    To me, the question should be about how to treat Sale next season:

    Less starts?

    Less pitches per start?

    Same as this year?

    Building up the pen might help with this choice. Lots of innings by Price, Pom and Porcello could be crucial but is hard to project.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I don't remember any Crucifixion as the "push back" did not take away a start from Sale at the end of the season.

    Here's the game thread from the game Kimmi is referring to - scroll through a bit and you'll see there was a lot of complaining about Fister starting instead of Sale. I was one of the ones complaining.

    http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads...0-vs-Blue-Jays

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I don't remember any Crucifixion as the "push back" did not take away a start from Sale at the end of the season.

    To me, the question should be about how to treat Sale next season:

    Less starts?

    Less pitches per start?

    Same as this year?

    Building up the pen might help with this choice. Lots of innings by Price, Pom and Porcello could be crucial but is hard to project.
    I think it makes sense to have Sale pitch fewer innings next year, both by pushing some starts back and by taking him out of the game earlier if the game is well in hand. Being able to do that does require some help from the other starters being able to go deeper into games and from the bullpen being able to keep the lead intact.

    The FO has been discussing the matter, so I'm sure we will see better management of Sale's innings.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Here's the game thread from the game Kimmi is referring to - scroll through a bit and you'll see there was a lot of complaining about Fister starting instead of Sale. I was one of the ones complaining.

    http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads...0-vs-Blue-Jays
    Thank you for finding that thread.

    My point with this is that I think that lessening your best pitcher's innings is sometimes easier said than done. It's hard not to start your ace when you need a win.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Ummm... don't you have that backwards?

    Farrell overused Sale when the Sox needed to win down the stretch. And that overuse likely cost Sale the Cy Young. I'm fairly certain this means it was for a team goal over a personal goal.

    But I can see your complaint, if you prefer Cy Young winners over AL East winners....
    incorrect. i laid it out completely in the other Sale/JF thread in realtime. JF was a fucking idiot. and Sale was selfish. those 2 combined to cost us Quality starts in the postseason from our Ace.
    other names i have posted under: none

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    incorrect. i laid it out completely in the other Sale/JF thread in realtime. JF was a fucking idiot. and Sale was selfish. those 2 combined to cost us Quality starts in the postseason from our Ace.
    I can buy someone thinking whatever Slasher about JF.. I get that but I sure wish that our team was stuffed to the brim with guys who approach the game like Chris Sale does. We need more not fewer guys like him. They shut their mouths and do things the right way. I didn't really enjoy this team much after the Pedroia/Price garbage - not two of my favorites by the way. Guys like Sale although we don't have many of them kept me interested.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    incorrect. i laid it out completely in the other Sale/JF thread in realtime. JF was a fucking idiot. and Sale was selfish. those 2 combined to cost us Quality starts in the postseason from our Ace.
    But.... I thought bad post-season starts were due to choking?

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    But.... I thought bad post-season starts were due to choking?
    that's David Price.
    other names i have posted under: none

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    that's David Price.
    Maybe Price's regular season innings have been mismanaged too.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Maybe Price's regular season innings have been mismanaged too.
    i haven't done the game by game logs for Price like i did for Sale but maybe. he did perform much better this years postseason than he usually does so maybe there is something to the quantity of innings with him as well.
    other names i have posted under: none

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    i haven't done the game by game logs for Price like i did for Sale but maybe. he did perform much better this years postseason than he usually does so maybe there is something to the quantity of innings with him as well.
    I've always thought that was the biggest factor for most pitchers in the post-season.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I think it makes sense to have Sale pitch fewer innings next year, both by pushing some starts back and by taking him out of the game earlier if the game is well in hand. Being able to do that does require some help from the other starters being able to go deeper into games and from the bullpen being able to keep the lead intact.

    The FO has been discussing the matter, so I'm sure we will see better management of Sale's innings.
    Should have seen it this year.

    For those who pushed back on the idea this year, whats dif'ferent about next year?

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    , whats dif'ferent about next year?
    the dummy known as JF is gone.
    other names i have posted under: none

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Should have seen it this year.

    For those who pushed back on the idea this year, whats dif'ferent about next year?
    The only real difference is one more year of data.

    I'll say this, it might not be possible to cut his innings back much next year either...it'll all depend on the circumstances.

    Did you look at that game thread from July when Farrell started Fister over Sale? It's amusing in light of this discussion.

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