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Thread: Martinez vs Hosmer vs Santana

  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Official title doesn't matter, of course. All that matters is who is the de facto decision-maker.
    True, although it has lead to some inaccurate stories...

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Yes, but what is interesting is the cry from us fans to "fix the problem".

    How?

    By signing another FA, this time to a 5+ year deal.
    Don't ask me. I'm against huge money long duration contracts for free agents. Although I do acknowledge that sometimes the team is in a bind a must make such a move.

    To me the key will be when Pablow and The Sloth are off the books. And then eventually Rusney to a lesser extent.

    The key is to make wise decisions. I am not so confident in the Sox current FO to do so.

    While roster construction is pretty serious stuff, it is not rocket surgery.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  3. #543
    Nobody is making a move, they want the prices to drop on these FA's.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Not what I meant.

    The Red Sox do not have a GM and haven't since Mike Hazen left. We have a President of Baseball Ops who handles everything himself. Although this off-season he hasn't done all that much...
    Oh ok - good one - you got me.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Pablo was a horrible move, although none of us in our wildest nightmares imagined exactly how horrible it would be.

    If we had just signed Pablo or Hanley, I think it would fall under the forgivable category. But signing them both, at a combined AAV of 41 million, was unforgivable.
    Would the Sox have been better off with Hanley and Sandoval or Gonzalez and Crawford?

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Would the Sox have been better off with Hanley and Sandoval or Gonzalez and Crawford?
    Better off in the first 5 years with the latter. The only positive about the former is that the deals were shorter.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Would the Sox have been better off with Hanley and Sandoval or Gonzalez and Crawford?
    For what it's worth, with the Red Sox, Hanley Ramirez has posted 1.2 bWAR in 387 games, Pablo Sandoval a negative 2.1 bWAR in 161 games, Adrian Gonzalez 9.9 bWAR in 282 games and Carl Crawford with 0.6 bWAR in 161 games.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I'm not sure I'd try Martinez at 1B. He should DH, so he can get 700 PAs.

    Keep the OF intact.

    I guess we end up with a $28M Moreland-HRam platoon at 1B, with HRam DH'ing when an OF'er needs a rest.

    That doesn't leave much money for a 5th starter.

    There are 700 PAs across the two positions. I don't worry about PT. While Moreland looks like the likely 1B option - he was signed at a number that is small enough to not be much of a impediment if things changed.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    I'm not sure that there is any real fix to the "problems" bad contracts create. I'm very sure that if a poll was taken as to how we fans might solve the problems that have been created, there would be so many different suggestions that it would be joke like. Signing JD Martinez to a 5 year deal might be a great deal for us and it might not.
    Because it is effectively an auction, you are almost likely going to end up with a bad deal ... just because you have to overpay slightly to win the auction. The question is not whether the value will hold over 5 years (it won't) so much as whether there will be enough value early to make up for it late. With Martinez I'm not sure - his "type" (30 year olds without much defensive value) has had a bad history of falling off a cliff. A guy like Lorenzo Cain might be safer just because if other stuff drops off, he'll probably still be an adequate CF.

    For Boston, free agency has to be the door since the trade bullets have been fired (and put to good use largely!). And of course, given the financial commitment the team expects from fans - laying out the bread is the least we can demand.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Pablo was a horrible move, although none of us in our wildest nightmares imagined exactly how horrible it would be.

    If we had just signed Pablo or Hanley, I think it would fall under the forgivable category. But signing them both, at a combined AAV of 41 million, was unforgivable.
    The Sandoval signing was super risky - his swing and his age gave some reason for hope, but the red flags were obvious. He was much worse than anybody could imagine.

    The Ramirez signing was actually pretty good on paper - they got away without having to give him 5 years, he was still a good hitter, and actually played a competent 3B. The idea that he would completely fall to pieces while being moved to an easier defensive position, while slipping offensively (granted some of that was health related) was a nightmarish outcome.

    I always wondered if they just signed Ramirez to play 3B would things have worked out better. But again, the idea of moving him to LF to save his body was not a silly one.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    Because it is effectively an auction, you are almost likely going to end up with a bad deal ... just because you have to overpay slightly to win the auction. The question is not whether the value will hold over 5 years (it won't) so much as whether there will be enough value early to make up for it late. With Martinez I'm not sure - his "type" (30 year olds without much defensive value) has had a bad history of falling off a cliff. A guy like Lorenzo Cain might be safer just because if other stuff drops off, he'll probably still be an adequate CF.

    For Boston, free agency has to be the door since the trade bullets have been fired (and put to good use largely!). And of course, given the financial commitment the team expects from fans - laying out the bread is the least we can demand.
    Very true I think. I really have to think which I obviously do that when these superstars are given these super long term contracts , that the for the most part super rich owners have no expectations really that they will get their monies worth for the duration of the contract. I like the auction analogy.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    There are 700 PAs across the two positions. I don't worry about PT. While Moreland looks like the likely 1B option - he was signed at a number that is small enough to not be much of a impediment if things changed.
    If Hanley proves that he is healthy he may be easier to move. The Sox still will have to eat some of the $$$$ this year and possible next year. Signing JD to mainly DH should be the plan. Sox won’t let Ramirez reach the ABs needed, thus the signing of Moreland. If Moreland ends up on the bench more there are not a lot of dollars there.

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