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Thread: The Case for signing Shohei Otani

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    Not signing ohtani is probably desperate dave’s Biggest failure to date.

    I swear desperate dave could not get laid in a women's Prison even if he had a hand full of get out of jail free cards on him.
    Why is it a failure? Do you live in the Boston area? There isn't much of an outcry that he isn't coming here, In fact......fans in the Boston area could care less. Let someone else get hosed. He has already stated he doesnt have the mental capacity for a market bigger than San Diego by opting for a smaller market.
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    Not signing ohtani is probably desperate dave’s Biggest failure to date.

    I swear desperate dave could not get laid in a women's Prison even if he had a hand full of get out of jail free cards on him.
    You are a joker Larry.

    This Ohtani kid is a totally different dude. It was the Yankees that really had their heart set on him and he said no thanks. I'm sure we had even less chance than they did.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Overhyped.

    Will not come as advertised. Will not be given a serious opportunity to hit and pitch. Pitching arms are investments and are worth too much. How would the team that signs him ever explain why their 30 million dollar pitcher hurt his arm making a throw from the outfield when he is nothing more than a .220 hitter?

    Hideki Irabu was their "Roger Clemens"
    Hideki Matsui was their perennial all star home run champion.
    Dice-K threw a Gyroball. The Gyroball doesn't exist. And he sucked.

    None ever produced anywhere near the hype.

    Ichiru is the only player that backed up the hype, and he just might be the greatest singles hitter in baseball history, replacing Pete Rose. Plus, an all time defender with plus speed.
    This post reads like he's going to be signing a $200 million contract or something...in reality, it's the $20 million posting fee (which does not count against the luxury tax and therefore may as well be Monopoly money for a team like the Red Sox...remember how much they dropped just on taxes to sign a teenaged Moncada?) and a signing bonus of a few million (in line with what a high- to mid-1st round domestic draft pick or a well-regarded international amateur signee might get), after which he's on a regular minimum salary contract like any other rookie player. Whatever team signs him will be taking very little risk for the chance at enormous upside, and even if he "doesn't live up to the hype" and only ends up, say, a mid-rotation starter, that should be money very well spent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    Not signing ohtani is probably desperate dave’s Biggest failure to date.

    I swear desperate dave could not get laid in a women's Prison even if he had a hand full of get out of jail free cards on him.
    I'm sure the Red Sox made their best pitch, but you can't make him come to Boston if he doesn't want to. All signs point to him wanting to play on the west coast...
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  4. #34
    Matsui was a great player. He OPS+'d 123 the years he was a NYY. Just look at his 2004 season. The reason you think they aren't worth it is they generally don't sign until later in their 20's and are closer to regression. Those guys are still pretty good. Darvish has been as advertised. Ichiro had 10 great years in SEA.
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR - check plus!

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Overhyped.

    Will not come as advertised. Will not be given a serious opportunity to hit and pitch. Pitching arms are investments and are worth too much. How would the team that signs him ever explain why their 30 million dollar pitcher hurt his arm making a throw from the outfield when he is nothing more than a .220 hitter?

    Hideki Irabu was their "Roger Clemens"
    Hideki Matsui was their perennial all star home run champion.
    Dice-K threw a Gyroball. The Gyroball doesn't exist. And he sucked.

    None ever produced anywhere near the hype.

    Ichiru is the only player that backed up the hype, and he just might be the greatest singles hitter in baseball history, replacing Pete Rose. Plus, an all time defender with plus speed.
    He probably is overhyped, though that is not saying that he won't still be a good player. He will be so cheap for the first 3 years, it would have been silly not to go after him.

    I do agree that he won't be given much of a chance to hit, outside of hitting as a pitcher on an NL team.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Yup, We will see. We'll see that once again, Japanese players are not even worth their posting fee, let alone long term contract.
    and.... I guess if everyone from one race never met your standards, none ever will.

    Wow!

    BTW, many Japanese players far out earned their pay + posting cost.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Matsui was a great player. He OPS+'d 123 the years he was a NYY. Just look at his 2004 season. The reason you think they aren't worth it is they generally don't sign until later in their 20's and are closer to regression. Those guys are still pretty good. Darvish has been as advertised. Ichiro had 10 great years in SEA.
    Great? I wouldn't say that. Trot Nixon was OPS+ 116 with Boston. Trot Nixon was not a great player, he was a good player. Nixon was also probably a better defensive player than Matsui.

    Paul O'Neill was OPS+ 125 in his time with the Yankees. O'Neill was not a great player. He was a very good player on a great team.

    Godzilla, he was not.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    and.... I guess if everyone from one race never met your standards, none ever will.

    Wow!

    BTW, many Japanese players far out earned their pay + posting cost.
    Typical liberal pussy, taking a comment out of context and making it seem like I am somehow a racist.
    Last edited by SCM33; 12-06-2017 at 09:50 PM.
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    He probably is overhyped, though that is not saying that he won't still be a good player. He will be so cheap for the first 3 years, it would have been silly not to go after him.

    I do agree that he won't be given much of a chance to hit, outside of hitting as a pitcher on an NL team.
    He could very well turn out being a decent player. My problem with the defections, is that they hardly ever meet the hype. Is it really worth the resources when you could probably draft and develop the same type of player here....and have them under team control for cheap money?
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  9. #39
    Matsui was great. His career started late. 29 as a rookie. He played with the Yanks for 7 seasons and lost two seasons to injury. His Yankee BA was close to .300. His second season was his best with a .912 OPS and 31HR. He knocked in over 100 4 times. His OBP’s were always high and he had strong slugging percentages in all but one injury shortened season. When you consider all of this came in a seven season stretch while he was 29-36, it was great. His biggest knock was that his defense sucked and he couldn’t run

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    He could very well turn out being a decent player. My problem with the defections, is that they hardly ever meet the hype. Is it really worth the resources when you could probably draft and develop the same type of player here....and have them under team control for cheap money?
    If Ohtani was eligible for the draft he'd be projected to go 1st overall...a team like the Red Sox is seldom, if ever, going to have a shot at drafting that type of talent.

    If you want to judge him based on the "hype," that's fine, but I'd rather focus on what he does on the field and whether it's worth the investment placed in him. No, he's almost certainly not going to be the "Japanese Babe Ruth," but he doesn't have to be. I remember when Jose Abreu came over from Cuba there were some similarly hyperbolic statements thrown around - "he might just be the best hitter in the world," one article proclaimed - and while he hasn't turned out to be that, he is a very good player on a fair contract and well worth having. I suspect Ohtani will turn out similarly (though he'll cost much less to acquire) - or he could be an utter bust and never provide any value. Who knows? The bottom line is that the winning team will have to risk very little to find out, which is why you have so much excitement and intrigue surrounding his situation.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Matsui was great. His career started late. 29 as a rookie. He played with the Yanks for 7 seasons and lost two seasons to injury. His Yankee BA was close to .300. His second season was his best with a .912 OPS and 31HR. He knocked in over 100 4 times. His OBP’s were always high and he had strong slugging percentages in all but one injury shortened season. When you consider all of this came in a seven season stretch while he was 29-36, it was great. His biggest knock was that his defense sucked and he couldn’t run
    Matsui was a very good hitter, I think that's the most accurate statement.

    With a .933 postseason OPS and World Series MVP, you might even be able to make an argument for him being clutch.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    Not signing ohtani is probably desperate dave’s Biggest failure to date.

    I swear desperate dave could not get laid in a women's Prison even if he had a hand full of get out of jail free cards on him.
    Completely tasteless and silly post. Trying to say this is somehow a failure by Dombrowski. Do you harbor such hate for him or is this just your attempt at humor.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Typical liberal pussy, taking a comment out of context and making it seem like I am somehow a racist.
    That's a pretty shitty thing to say and a reason we avoid politics around here.
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR - check plus!

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Matsui was great. His career started late. 29 as a rookie. He played with the Yanks for 7 seasons and lost two seasons to injury. His Yankee BA was close to .300. His second season was his best with a .912 OPS and 31HR. He knocked in over 100 4 times. His OBP’s were always high and he had strong slugging percentages in all but one injury shortened season. When you consider all of this came in a seven season stretch while he was 29-36, it was great. His biggest knock was that his defense sucked and he couldn’t run
    As a Sox fan, Matsui always concerned me more than a guy like Gary Sheffield. I don't think the Yankees regretted that signing at all.
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR - check plus!

  15. #45
    No, they didn’t. And if we had different personnel, we’d have used Hideki as strictly a DH. His WAR totals aren’t terribly impressive, but they were dragged down considerably by overwhelmingly minus defense and baserunning

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