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Thread: Daniel Bard

  1. #166
    Deity BSN07's Avatar
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy;436962;
    Joba's never been more dominant than Bard in the majors, in the pen or as a starter. And don't try to argue me with ERA, you make fun of other posters when they use ERA to prove you wrong.
    Joba's 2007 tour out of the pen was disgusting. It was a mirror image of Papelbon's debut. Either you didn't watch him, or your just trying to bait Jacko.

    Joba was lights out out of the pen for those couple months. To deny this is plainly absurd.

    Me personally, if given the choice I would have Joba in the set up role, and waiting to take over for Mo. Albeit I see the argument for him as a SP as well.

  2. #167
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    very very difficult to argue that Bard is better than Joba ever was....difficult because its untrue

  3. #168
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    That said, Joba got incredibly lucky in '07 as well as putting up dominating numbers.

    .246 BABIP? 96.6% LOB? These numbers make Joba look hella better than he really was that year. And don't try to tell me that that was excellent Yankees' defense. Chamberlain's 2007 debut was a flat out statistical fluke, the only numbers he claims full marks for that year are his K/bb rates./

  4. #169
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji;437008;
    That said, Joba got incredibly lucky in '07 as well as putting up dominating numbers.

    .246 BABIP? 96.6% LOB? These numbers make Joba look hella better than he really was that year. And don't try to tell me that that was excellent Yankees' defense. Chamberlain's 2007 debut was a flat out statistical fluke, the only numbers he claims full marks for that year are his K/bb rates./
    His ability to K batters at almost will bailed him out of some sticky situations.

  5. #170
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    At a rate that is unsustainable even for the most dominant pitchers.

    I'm not saying there wasn't a good performance behind it but those numbers are not just the result of good performance.

  6. #171
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    why exactly is BABIP always attributed to luck? I understand Joba is a strikeout pitcher but good pitchers are expected to have the ability to avoid the sweet spot of the bat and force weak grounders or shallow flies as well.

  7. #172
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox21;437033;
    why exactly is BABIP always attributed to luck? I understand Joba is a strikeout pitcher but good pitchers are expected to have the ability to avoid the sweet spot of the bat and force weak grounders or shallow flies as well.
    Still, there's only so much "avoiding the sweet spot" will counteract.

    There's a league average for BABIP, i'll give you that, meaning that both sucky and good pitchers are included.

    However, anything under .250 is cheer luck, because in Pedro's 1999 season, he had a .270+ BABIP, and he was a hell of a pitcher, so yes, BABIP has quite a measure of luck to it, and it can make or break a pitcher's season if it doesn't even out.
    WAR is good for something.

  8. #173
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox21;437033;
    why exactly is BABIP always attributed to luck? I understand Joba is a strikeout pitcher but good pitchers are expected to have the ability to avoid the sweet spot of the bat and force weak grounders or shallow flies as well.
    To what DipreG said, I'd just like to add that defense is a factor in BABIP, since it's basically 1-DER. The variability and difficulty in predicting and projecting defense is a large part of the supposed "luck" factor.

    But this is pretty clear cut luck. The Yankee defense is NOT good enough that even if we get a steady diet of cheap flies and ground balls, they'll haul more than three quarters of them in. There just isn't the range on that team for that level of performance to be reasonable, especially when Chien Ming Wang's ERA as a pitcher whose whole identity was built around weak contact, sports a .290 median BABIP.

  9. #174
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji;437008;
    That said, Joba got incredibly lucky in '07 as well as putting up dominating numbers.

    .246 BABIP? 96.6% LOB? These numbers make Joba look hella better than he really was that year. And don't try to tell me that that was excellent Yankees' defense. Chamberlain's 2007 debut was a flat out statistical fluke, the only numbers he claims full marks for that year are his K/bb rates./
    He had a 0.38 ERA, what did you expect?

  10. #175

    Re: Daniel Bard

    his peripherals outside of the ERA were ridiculous as well.
    Hal sucks

  11. #176
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch;437344;
    his peripherals outside of the ERA were ridiculous as well.
    Sure, not arguing that, but the point stands that there's a huge luck factor to Joba's 2007 performance.

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