I am so sick..

[Gom]

I really am. I'm so fucking sick.

Not only did they give that boob Cashman a three-year deal, they GAVE HIM A FUCKING RAISE! I am this close to jumping off a ledge. I can't take this shit anymore. I'm going to cut myself and just bleed out, like the Yankees under Cashman.

He still to this won't admit that not trading for Santana is a mistake. His team's poor showing has decreased a chance at getting prime free agents. His draft picks for position players has been putrid [I'll give him Joba]. He trades/drafts injured pitchers.

You want to bring him back? You know, if he came out and said he botched the Santana deal and that he would be committed to putting a championship caliber team on the field in 2009, I would be queasy, not sick. If he would be aggressive for once with the richest team in baseball and sign the best player or two out there, I'd be nauseous, not sick.

To give him a raise? After an abysmal 3rd place showing? I've been projectile-vomiting since I heard the news.

I am so sick and tired of Yankee ownership rewarding poor performances with contract extensions that include a raise. We should have dumped Torre after 2004. Instead we gave him an extension and a raise. We should have dumped Cashman when he didn't go after Santana. Worst case scenario, after this season of horrors. Instead, he gets an extension and a raise.

I can understand the sentiment to bring back Cashman. I don't agree with it, and unless he reverses his train of thought and short-term strategy, this can eclipse Pavano as the worst deal ever for this franchise. Ok, second worst after CBS bought the Yankees.

Even the most ardent Cashman lover cannot defend his getting a raise.

I just puked again.

[Coco's Disciples]

*Strolls into thread*

...Oh god, not another Gom complaint thread.

*Runs out*

[Gom]

*Strolls into thread*

...Oh god, not another Gom complaint thread.

*Runs out*
I have been a bit of a whiny bitch recently, haven't I?

[Remember the Titans]

bun na na na nu na na na bun na na bun na na naaa na bun na na na bnun na nbun

about as coherent as goms thought process lawl

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I'm pretty sure Cashman knows he made a mistake not dealing for Santana, but there's no point in saying publically, that doesn't really send a good message to your young guys.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have been a bit of a whiny bitch recently, haven't I?

take some midol and stop being a bitch

[Mr Crunchy]

there ya go
midol or pamprin helps with the water weight.
this tells me that cashman has little or nothing to do with the day to day workings inside the franchise.
if these decisions were his alone he would be gone,instead someone else is clearly calling the shots,the brothers fredo are in charge and they'll keep cashman around as a fall guy.
400M in payroll between the 2 ny teams and they both fail to reach the post season yet ownership gives both gms extensions and raises??
Good God its hillarious

[Gom]

I guess from your view Crunchy...it would be.

[Mr Crunchy]

if you take player by player and view their corresponding salaries there isnt 1 guy on this team that earned their money with the exceptions of Mo and Mussina.
the rest of their core 25 failed to live up to expectations.
they do in fact reward failure in ny

[26 to 6]

I'm pretty sure Cashman knows he made a mistake not dealing for Santana, but there's no point in saying publically, that doesn't really send a good message to your young guys.
I'm so tired of that thinking though. Sure, this year Santana would have made a huge difference. But lets give it a couple years and see how our guys turn out before we call it a mistake or say Cashman fucked up. Let's be fair. In fairness, we would have been a better team this year if we had him. Also in fairness, if Hughes and Wang and every/anyone else discussed in those negotiations turn out to be good players then how is it stupid to deal them. If Hughes becomes the pitcher he's been projected to be we would be payign a declining Santana massive dollars as Hughes is coming into his prime. Then WE look like the losers either way. Gom, you're clearly an instant gratification guy. Be patient though, before we judge this decision entirely lets see how it plays out for both sides.

[Mr Crunchy]

i think thats the point Gom is trying to make.
Why wait in ny?
Why play 2nd fiddle to anyone with the gigantic resources they have?
If it cost them Phil Hughes so what, youre getting the best lefty in the game at age 28.
It wouldve made them the playoffs and perhaps more.
I believe his theory is they shouldnt ever be in rebuilding mode, they should never have to be patient and they should use their financial advantages to acquire the best pitchers available each off season.
this is the 1 year they didnt do that
last year they didnt pony up 1/2 of what the sox did to land dice K.
based on their incredible advantages fiscally over everyone he thinks they shouldve had these guys playing in ny,i dont argue with that mindset either.

[Gom]

i think thats the point Gom is trying to make.
Why wait in ny?
Why play 2nd fiddle to anyone with the gigantic resources they have?
If it cost them Phil Hughes so what, youre getting the best lefty in the game at age 28.
It wouldve made them the playoffs and perhaps more.
I believe his theory is they shouldnt ever be in rebuilding mode, they should never have to be patient and they should use their financial advantages to acquire the best pitchers available each off season.
this is the 1 year they didnt do that
last year they didnt pony up 1/2 of what the sox did to land dice K.
based on their incredible advantages fiscally over everyone he thinks they shouldve had these guys playing in ny,i dont argue with that mindset either.
Exactly. There is no reason with the advantages the Yankees have at their disposal to go the traditional route.

[26 to 6]

But is it worth it in the longrun? Why increase the payroll year after year after year when theres no guarantees we're going to be successful. The only thing that philosophy guarantees is that we'll be forced to spend a fortune at the ballpark year after year after year. Is it worth it to be the subject of constant ridicule. If Gom had his way we would have a $300 Million payroll by 2012. And if we don't win the World Series we would be the laughingstock of major professional sports. Just because we have the resources doesn't mean we have to be glutonous and greedy and just spend and spend and spend and trade promising young players. If we were to follow that game-plan all these years Mo would be a Mariner, Cano and Wang would be in Arizona , among countless other possibilities. The long-term payoff of not trading for Santana is that we could possibly have two ace-type pitchers in the future at a reasonable price rather than be paying a former ace on his decline $20 Mil while our guys succeed elsewhere. I just dont understand the thinking. So we didn't make the playoffs one year, it's not the endo f the world. It's hard and it sucks, definitely. But there are 30 teams and only 8 go to the dance. We'll get them next year. I mean really, How many Johan Santana's did we have in 1996?

[Gom]

But is it worth it in the longrun? Why increase the payroll year after year after year when theres no guarantees we're going to be successful. The only thing that philosophy guarantees is that we'll be forced to spend a fortune at the ballpark year after year after year. Is it worth it to be the subject of constant ridicule. If Gom had his way we would have a $300 Million payroll by 2012. And if we don't win the World Series we would be the laughingstock of major professional sports. Just because we have the resources doesn't mean we have to be glutonous and greedy and just spend and spend and spend and trade promising young players. If we were to follow that game-plan all these years Mo would be a Mariner, Cano and Wang would be in Arizona , among countless other possibilities. The long-term payoff of not trading for Santana is that we could possibly have two ace-type pitchers in the future at a reasonable price rather than be paying a former ace on his decline $20 Mil while our guys succeed elsewhere. I just dont understand the thinking. So we didn't make the playoffs one year, it's not the endo f the world. It's hard and it sucks, definitely. But there are 30 teams and only 8 go to the dance. We'll get them next year. I mean really, How many Johan Santana's did we have in 1996?
I never advocated doing one over the other. No one has yet to show me why you can't do both. One team does do both, and do it well. The Red Sox. The Yankees and Red Sox have the same plan. The Red Sox do it better than the Yankees. Why?

It's not the plan. It's the implementation. The Red Sox have a much better FO. They accomplish more with less. Not only is their farm system better, they are better at talent evaluation. Cashman is not as good as Theo. The rest of the Yankee FO is not as good as the secondary help. Our scouting is not as good as theirs.

Case in point:

in 2004, the Yankees took these four players before Pedroia: Hughes at 23, Jon Poterson at 37, and pitchers Jeffrey Marquez and Brett Smith at 41 and 42.

In 2005, the Yankees took CJ Henry at 17. Boston players that followed? Ellsbury, Hansen, and Lowrie.

Even 2006, in where we got Chamberlain, the Red Sox outclassed us in getting Bard over Kennedy. Masterson is already with the club. We haven't gotten anything else.

I like you 26, but the fact that you still believe that Kennedy can be an ace-type pitcher shows you know less about baseball than my dog.

[26 to 6]

Time out, I never said kennedy could be an ace type pitcher. I was referring to Wang and Hughes. Kennedy can go rot in Scranton or Japan for all i care. He'd probably have some success if that were the case. i think Cash should get on the phone and put that "working arangement" with Yomiuri in effect, we'd probably benefit more than if we stuck with him lol.

[Gom]

BREAKING NEWS

Cashman in his press conference has come out and told Yankee fans not to expect signing any specific players. Who could that mean outside of CC? Buster Olney reports that Cashman favors Derek Lowe [sic] over Mark Teixeira. How do you feel about this Jacko? No CC, no Tex, but Derek Lowe, he of the 5.40 ERA in his last season in the AL East.

At this point, I may just keep my tickets and burn them.

[jacksonianmarch]

I never advocated doing one over the other. No one has yet to show me why you can't do both. One team does do both, and do it well. The Red Sox. The Yankees and Red Sox have the same plan. The Red Sox do it better than the Yankees. Why?

It's not the plan. It's the implementation. The Red Sox have a much better FO. They accomplish more with less. Not only is their farm system better, they are better at talent evaluation. Cashman is not as good as Theo. The rest of the Yankee FO is not as good as the secondary help. Our scouting is not as good as theirs.

Case in point:

in 2004, the Yankees took these four players before Pedroia: Hughes at 23, Jon Poterson at 37, and pitchers Jeffrey Marquez and Brett Smith at 41 and 42.

In 2005, the Yankees took CJ Henry at 17. Boston players that followed? Ellsbury, Hansen, and Lowrie.

Even 2006, in where we got Chamberlain, the Red Sox outclassed us in getting Bard over Kennedy. Masterson is already with the club. We haven't gotten anything else.

I like you 26, but the fact that you still believe that Kennedy can be an ace-type pitcher shows you know less about baseball than my dog.

You are once again a class A moron. The 05 draft was a bust at the top. But Cox, Jackson and Gardner all have big league futures or have made it already. AND ITS TOO EARLY STILL TO EVALUATE THESE THREE PLAYERS YOU FUCKING MORON. When will you learn this. Its like teaching sign language to a blind guy. It just doesnt get through

You need to learn how to evaluate talent or at least understand the process. You are hyping Hansen and Lowrie, while one is sucking ass in Pittsburgh and the other is a guy who hit .258 as a defensive downgrade at SS and projects to be a light hitting corner IFer with a good eye.

Then you are hyping Bard when he was a college draftee in 06 as a starter and needed two seasons to get his act straight as a reliever, and still cannot locate in AA. That is better than a lower ceiling starter who made it to the bigs? You're fucking dumb. And then you discount the rest of the draft and INTL signees BEFORE THE MEAT OF IT MAKES IT TO THE BIGS. Arguing this with you is pointless. You have an agenda and when that happens, objectivity and intellect goes right out the window. But this is kinda status quo with you. One day, when you leave this site, we might be able to talk yankees baseball in reality without some idiot with no education spouting about drafts being busts 2 yrs after they were made.

[Mr Crunchy]

Spending guarantees a lot of things but 1st and foremost it guarantees you the ability to get quality pitching and pitching depth is the only way to win the world series.
nobody is here to raise the al east banner or the 2008 al wild card winners banner.
we are battling for the world series
outside that fluke in st louis in 2006 every team that won had pitching and a lot of it.

[Gom]

You are once again a class A moron. The 05 draft was a bust at the top. But Cox, Jackson and Gardner all have big league futures or have made it already. AND ITS TOO EARLY STILL TO EVALUATE THESE THREE PLAYERS YOU FUCKING MORON. When will you learn this. Its like teaching sign language to a blind guy. It just doesnt get through
You say three years. Why does it have to be three years? Why not two? Why not five? The Red Sox have a player in Pedroia who could be potentially the MVP of the American League from 2004. What about Lester? These guys were up last year as well.

I don't care whether it was a bust up top or at the bottom. I look at the draft as a whole.


You need to learn how to evaluate talent or at least understand the process. You are hyping Hansen and Lowrie, while one is sucking ass in Pittsburgh and the other is a guy who hit .258 as a defensive downgrade at SS and projects to be a light hitting corner IFer with a good eye.
Last I checked, they were in the major leagues.


Then you are hyping Bard when he was a college draftee in 06 as a starter and needed two seasons to get his act straight as a reliever, and still cannot locate in AA. That is better than a lower ceiling starter who made it to the bigs?
I'm sure that if Daniel Bard was the central point of a trade for Cain or Peavy, the Red Sox would let him go. Yes, I think Bard will do better than Kennedy. In fact, if he never makes it to the majors, he'll have done better than Kennedy. Kennedy may have cost us a chance at the wild card this year just by himself.


You're fucking dumb. And then you discount the rest of the draft and INTL signees BEFORE THE MEAT OF IT MAKES IT TO THE BIGS. Arguing this with you is pointless. You have an agenda and when that happens, objectivity and intellect goes right out the window. But this is kinda status quo with you. One day, when you leave this site, we might be able to talk yankees baseball in reality without some idiot with no education spouting about drafts being busts 2 yrs after they were made.
I started listing 2004. That makes 4 years, you illiterate idiot. Do you know how to read? Go back and read my post. We have been outclassed in every draft since 2004 and probably earlier by our rivals. The only exception is 2006. I've come to the conclusion that you've become the poster boy for Yankee idiocy here at TalkSox. It's like the rest of Talksox keeps you here to laugh at your ignorant ass, and you're too retarded to know it.

Go listen to your idiot on Lohud Yankees Blog (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/). He still thinks that the Yankees were better off in not getting Santana. Listen at 17:03 of the audio of his press conference. His EXACT words: "I did not think we were ready for a complete acquisition like that at that time". No??? Why the fuck not? Did he think we were more than one player away from the post-season???? He still thinks Santana wouldn't have made a difference this year. What a fucking moron. He goes on to say that he'd rather keep his inventory and use the free agent market this year. Then he goes on to say not to expect any specific players in the free agent market. That means CC. So would you rather have Lowe for money, or Santana for money, Kennedy, and Melky? According to what he's saying, we aren't getting CC.

I've called out one idiot here, and he no longer posts here regularly. Don't be the second one. We both root for the same team. We both like the idea of building from within. I advocate activity at the major league level at the expense of the minor league level. You do the opposite. I do because the money allows us to cover any long term errors. You believe that it's a losing proposition. I would agree with you that it would be a losing proposition if we weren't the richest team in baseball and had the money to compensate for this short-sightedness. You'd rather the Steinbrenners pocket their money [nice guy that you are], I'd rather they spend it on their team [I'm selfish, I want to see a winner more than I want to see the Steinbrenners get richer]. We agree to disagree. However, my big issue is the person in charge. Cashman is ill-suited for the job. Let's quote Cashman again, this time on why he came back.

"The storyline that was going to be written if I left I didn't agree with. I wasn't going to let that story be written." [16:00]

The story is you've failed. What would have been written would have been accurate. What happens from now on is another story. You were given a three year contract, and you're team won less games every year you've had full control, and gotten worse every season. That is not up for debate. You've failed. You've watched your main rivals make the post-season every year, win a World Series, and wipe the floor with you in every facet of the game. Your counterpart has out-drafted you and made much better free agent decisions. That's what would have been written, and that would have been the TRUTH.

I do hope that he writes a different story. I don't see it anything that makes me feel optimistic. He advocates more of the same. Let's see what he does. The only hope we have is if he alters his short-term policy to be a little closer to what I've been advocating.

[jacksonianmarch]

Okay dumbass, I have told you time and time and time again that Cashman was able to pump money into the draft in 2006. He also replaced the scouting director at that time and put Damon Oppenheimer in place. Lets look at it since THAT ONE CHANGE. You ask him to change his philosophy, he does, and you dont acknowledge it.

Yankees 06 notable draft picks/signings- (Bold made it to bigs)
Joba Chamberlain Beast with A+ talent
Ian Kennedy has a future in the back end of a big league rotation
Zach McAllister- skipped to AA this yr and was absolutely dominant- ETA mid 2010
Mitch Hilligoss- dominated SAL in 07, sucked in FSL in 08. ETA- ???
George Kontos- high K rate, good ERA, moderate WHIP in AA- ETA late 2009
Colin Curtis- struggled in AA but finished well. Needs to put it together to make bigs ETA- ???
Dellin Betances- started off with bad control in first half, put it together in second. ETA- 2011
Mark Melancon- TJ surgery then dominated A+/AA/AAA. A beast. ETA- 2009
Dan McCutchen- traded to Pitt
David Robertson- ran through the system in a yr and a half, good stuff and will be in MR this yr
Jesus Montero- dominated the SAL. If moved from catcher, he could be in the bigs next yr. ETA- 2011
Jairo Heredia- pitched well in the SAL as a 19 yr old with high K rate. ETA 2012
Carlos Urena- shot in the DSL this yr. Recovered fully, was hitting well when shot. ETA ???


Red Sox 2006 draft picks
Jason Place- A+ ball, finally hitting for power at a young age, high K rate will hinder him. ETA 2011
Daniel Bard- AA ball, converted to relief, unhittable, but high BB rate. ETA late 2009
Kris Johnson- AA ball, good ERA, mod K rate, high WHIP (1.5). ETA ???
Caleb Clay- 2 games into return from TJ. Likely to start in the SAL. ETA- ???
Justin Masterson- likely in the pen for good, struggles vs lefties. Solid pen arm if progresses
Aaron Bates- regressed in AA this yr. Might be stalling. ETA- ???
Bryce Cox- got tattoed for a 2nd yr in a row in A ball. ETA- ???
John Still- showed power in A+ ball, but old for league and tons of Ks ETA- 2010
Dustin Richardson- highly touted by Gammons in ST, sucked in AA this yr. ETA- ???
Zach Daeges- moved to CF, showed good patience and EBH in AA. ETA- late 2009
Kris Negron- sucked in A, moved to A+ and played well. Will see if he is any good in 09. ETA- ???
Ryan Kalish- good avg and eye in SAL, power slow to develop. Has long way to go- ETA-???
Ty Weeden- high bonus, low production. ETA- ???
Josh Redick- dominated both A leagues in 08, struggled in AA. ETA- 2011
Lars Anderson- Total package at 1b, dominated A+ and AA. ETA- late 2009
Yamaico Navarro- played well in A ball. ETA- 2012
Oscar Tejeda- poor season in the SAL. ETA- ???
Engel Beltre- traded to TEX for Gagne.

So looking over the 2006 draft and signing period, both teams did well. We have seen three of our players make the majors in a yr and a half since being drafted/signed. Not bad at all. The sox have seen one. We have two others with ETA's of this upcoming yr, while the sox have 3. Of the guys we signed, Montero, Chamberlain, Heredia, Betances and Melancon are all players with top tier talent who are producing. For the sox, Anderson, Reddick, Place and Bard are in the same category. I think we came away with the most talent and this class has been very solid since signing. The sox draft was good once again. But from about 02-05 the sox have had better drafts. 06 was the start of something new.

[jacksonianmarch]

For 2007 Yankees picks and signees. Oh, and BTW, guys with ??? after their ETA either have been injured too often to evaluate or havent progressed well enough to predict their ETA

Andrew Brackman- returned from TJ, just started throwing in games. Will be in Tampa in 09. ETA-???
Austin Romine- solid C, finished very strong in A ball. Will be in Tampa in 09. ETA- 2011
Ryan Pope- solid 1st half, then injured and sucked second half. Will be in Tampa in 09. ETA- 2011
Bradley Suttle- solid season, tapered late due to labrum injury. Will be in Tampa in 09. ETA- 2011
Adam Olbrychowski- poor finish to 08 likely has him in the pen for good. Needs to rebound. ETA- ???
Chase Weems- injured, repeated the GCL with limited success. Should be in SAL in 09. ETA- ???
Damon Sublett- poor start, got hot then injured. Will be in Trenton in 09. ETA- 2011
Taylor Grote- poor season in SI. Regressing. ETA- ???
Austin Krum- solid yr in SAL, will be in Tampa in 09. ETA- 2011
Carmen Angelini- bad yr in the SAL, will repeat in 09. ETA- ???
Justin Snyder- good yr in SAL, will be in Tampa in 09. ETA- 2011
Brandon Laird- good power esp late in long season, will be in Tampa in 09. ETA- 2011
Manny Barreda- TJS in 2008, will miss all of 09. ETA- ???
Kelvin De Leon- dominated the DSL, will be stateside likely in long season. ETA- 2012
Eduardo Sosa- dominated the DSL, will be stateside in long season. ETA- 2012
Arodys Vizcaino- dominated the GCL. Will be in long season for 09. ETA- 2012

Red Sox-
Nick Hagadone- TJS June 08, will likely miss most of 09. ETA- ???
Ryan Dent- below Mendoza line in Lowell. Looking like a bust. ETA- ???
Hunter Morris did not sign
Brock Huntzinger- was terrible in Greenville. ETA- ???
Chris Province- started well in A ball, but was rocked in A+. ETA- ???
Will Middlebrooks- was terrible in Lowell in 08. ETA- ???
Anthony Rizzo- developed Hodgkin's lymphoma, will rehab and should be back in 09. ETA- ???
David Mailman- struggled in A ball and in Lowell. ETA- ???
Adam Mills- hit very hard between Lancaster and Portland. Will need to miss bats to progress. ETA- ???
Kade Keowen- struggled mightily in A abd Lowell. ETA- ???
Ryan Pressly- pitched adequately in the GCL, has a long way to go. ETA- 2012
Austin Bailey- injured his labrum, rehab instead of surgery, should be back in 2009. ETA- ???
Hunter Strickland- pitched very well in Lowell. ETA- 2012
Drake Britton- adequate in Lowell in 08, needs to improve to move. ETA- ???
Michael Almanzar- hit well in the GCL, struggled on promotion to A. ETA- 2012
Che-Hsuan Lin- hit under .250 and barely made .700OPS. Should be in A+ for 09. ETA- 2012

Once again, the two best draftees had TJS. Brackman is back already and Hagadone will miss significant time in 09. The DSL signees have promise. Vizcaino was the best INTL pitching prospect for 07, De Leon and Almanzar the best power prospects. Sosa is a better all around player than both of them. Our draft has guys on the rise, while the sox draft (while extremely talented) universally struggled in their first full yr in the minor leagues. Again, I thought the sox were just unlucky in 2007, they drafted good talent, but a lot of projects that to this point havent put it together. I would write any of them off, though. The Yankees drafted a lot of talent too, and to this point, most of it is producing.

[ORS]

You don't know dick about the Sox prospects other than how to look the raw stat line up at MiLB.com. Mailman progressed throughout the year and started showing power at the end of it. Huntzinger was lights out in ssA before his struggles (in only 27 IP) in Greenville to finish the year. Ryan Dent looks like a bust after only one year as a HS draftee, a year in which 42% of his hits went for XBH's? Keep telling yourself that.

Stick to propaganda about your own prospects, because you don't know anything about ours.

[TheKilo]

Lowrie's a defensive downgrade at SS? From Lugo? I stopped reading right there.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you're gonna go by the 42% EBH percentage when he hit .154 in short season? The only reason why he had 42% EBH was because he didnt have that many hits to begin with.

[ORS]

So you're gonna go by the 42% EBH percentage when he hit .154 in short season? The only reason why he had 42% EBH was because he didnt have that many hits to begin with.
So, he's a bust after a half season as a 19 y/o? No chance that he has contact issues he can work through? No chance he's a toolsy kid that is a bit of a project? No, "TBD" or "we'll see", like every Yankee kid seems to get. One half season where he struggled, "bust" (if he was drafted by the Sox, apparently). You don't see why Gom is partially right when he said we get a good laugh at the expense of your posts (due to the ridiculous level of hypocrisy)?

Here's an idea, instead of pretending like you know what's going on with these players, why not just say, "I don't know", or "we'll see". That will shut me up, but when you try and win your little spat with Gom with outright fabrications and double standards, I'm going to chime in.

[jacksonianmarch]

I did not call him a bust. I said he may be a bust. After seeing guys like Austin Jackson on our end struggle in his first yr and a half, then explode, I think Dent has some time. But the early returns are not good.

[Gom]

The world has officially ended. ORS has defended me.

I LOVE IT! LOL!

[Gom]

Stick to propaganda about your own prospects, because you don't know anything about ours.
Jacko, stop thinking that I think you're an idiot [I do, but that's not the point] and listen to logic. You're buying into the Yankees hype about their own prospects. The Yankees do this all the time, to their advantage in trying to deal those prospects away. Remember when Jackson Melian, Wily Mo Pena, Jose Tabata, and countless others were hyped up as superstars in the making? I find it difficult to believe someone who proffesses to be so intelligent can be so misled.

Let me give you an example of how misled you've been, using your own words. You have predicted 16 players with an ETA from the 2006 & 2007 drafts for the Yankees. The regular season roster is only 25 players. Forgetting that most of them are pitchers, that means that we will have 16 homegrown players by 2012? You believe that?

Also, 10 of them are from 2007. 6 of them are from 2006. Stop for a second, stop taking things personally. Think.. Why? Could it be that the belief in baseball that the Yankees like their prospects a lot less the closer they get to the big leagues be true? Yes. The Yankees hype their prospects to no end. You state that Austin Jackson "exploded" this year. A full season in Double AA led to a .773 OPS. Shit, what would "stunk" have been? Austin Jackson may be a star. More than likely, he'll be a flop. It's simple mathematics, Jacko.

You know what I define a flop/bust as? Anyone who is a bench player or worse in the majors. If you didn't make it to the majors, you were a bust. Drew Henson comes to mind. If you make it to the majors and suck. Kennedy comes to mind [although, as much as I hate the guy and his talent, I will acknowledge that the book isn't completely closed with him]. You know when the draft is a success? If you get one, just ONE major league starter from a full draft. So, 2006, because of Joba, is a success. Think about this. If you bring up one rookie who makes the team as a starter every season, you'd have 30-40% of your major league talent homegrown. That would be phenomenal. What you're advocating is that by 2012, you'd have 16 homegrown players. Not counting Joba, Hughes, Coke, Gardner...in other words everyone who's come up already. Either you are really, really stupid, or really, really naive. Stop reading the press clippings and think for yourself. This isn't med school where you memorize things, and what's written in the book is correct. Seriously.

The majority of years, for most teams, do not have ONE major league starter in any one draft. It's the nature of the beast.

I would trade the entire draft class of 2007, and 2006 [minus Joba] for Peavy, or Cain, etc. Why? Most of them won't make it. Unless the Padres are extremely lucky, they will get one major league starter out of it. The odds that he'll come close to one of those guys is small. I'm just playing the statistical odds.

If someone had told you that the answer this season to the Yankees problems would be Ken Griffey or Lyle Overbay in the OF, you would have laughed. Yet they had the same OPS as Jackson did. They did it in the majors, Jackson in Double A.

Seriously Jacko, you don't make a lot of sense. I've been calling you out for a while, finally, others are doing the same. Even if the Yankees farm system starts overflowing with talent [which will never happen], the time will come when you start trading those players for established stars.

My point is this...why not sign those stars, and look at the picks as a trade? What would be the difference? There isn't one. If you're going to draft a Kennedy and then nurture him up to the majors, why not trade that pick to begin with as compensation when you sign the free agent? In fact, if they are as good as you think in scouting now that Cashman has taken over, wouldn't it be better to do that and then try to acquire equivalent talent down the road in the same draft?

Stop and think about this objectively. I take no pleasure in showing you that you're wrong. In being right, I'm showing this team is trying to head in the right direction with the wrong man running it based on his track record. Can he reverse the trend? Of course. Will he? Doubtful. I haven't seen much that makes me think so. Go listen to his own words. Please do, and tell me what you think. It will take you half an hour, but give me your input. He didn't think the Yankees were in a position to sign Santana. He didn't think that the Yankees were an ace away from the playoffs...an ace away from maybe winning it all. He doesn't get it, and sadly, neither do you.

The Yankees need to spend money this off-season, lots of it, hopefully on short term deals with higher AAV. This is done in the hope that when these players are done, the Yankees will be able to plug in good young players on the cheap for the good old players who are expensive. The farm system isn't good enough to support the major league level yet. If Cashman realizes this and adjusts accordingly, then fine. I'll sing his praises [well, never that much. The Santana blight will forever classify him as a below-average GM in my mind]. Unless we get two out of the following: CC, AJ, Tex, Sheets, he has not learned a thing, and we are resigned to 3rd place again. The Red Sox are younger and better. We aren't getting younger just yet. We can use money to get better.

I pray you see the points I'm making. Ask most Red Sox fans if they think Cashman is doing a good job for the Yankees. They'll say no. They'll point to Theo and say "He's doing a good job". They are right. They don't read the hype you do, they see what I see. It isn't pretty in comparison.

I don't follow the minors that closely. You say you do, but do you just regurgitate what others tell you? I know you are full of shit when you said you played baseball. I asked you to point out the difference in Cano. I noticed it before he started hitting well. I called you out on it, and you were silent. If you played ball, you'd have seen it.

Tell me what you think of a player, how he looks. I look at minor league players as a scout would. You point out nearly meaningless statistics in Rookie Ball. Get real.

[ARod2212]

BREAKING NEWS

Cashman in his press conference has come out and told Yankee fans not to expect signing any specific players. Who could that mean outside of CC? Buster Olney reports that Cashman favors Derek Lowe [sic] over Mark Teixeira. How do you feel about this Jacko? No CC, no Tex, but Derek Lowe, he of the 5.40 ERA in his last season in the AL East.

At this point, I may just keep my tickets and burn them.
The reason for that would be nothing other than Sabathia may be set on pitching in the NL West. He'll be a HOFer if he pitches there the rest of his career.

If we don't get Sabathia (and Teixiera for that matter), it won't be for lack of effort by Cashman. Some people just don't want to play in New York. I guarantee you we'll give them the biggest offers though.

Also, Derek Lowe sucks. I don't want Derek Lowe.

[CrespoBlows]

GOM WUT DUE U KNO ALL OF THESE PLAYA R GUNNA BE RLY GOOD CUZ I LOOKED AT THEM N THATS WAT I THINK I WOOD NOT TRADE ANY OF THESE PLAYAS FOR NOONE NOT EVEN GHOULOS LOL FUK U


11 Dave Miley Manager L R 6' 3" 220 46 04-03-1962 Active
27 Butch Wynegar Batting Coach S R 6' 0" 194 52 03-14-1956 Active
34 Rafael Chaves Pitching Coach R R 6' 0" 195 39 11-01-1968 Active
10 Alvaro Espinoza Coach R R 6' 0" 181 46 02-19-1962 Active



Pitchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
47 J.B. Cox P L R 6' 3" 205 24 05-13-1984 Active No
29 Kei Igawa P L L 6' 1" 210 29 07-13-1979 Active No
16 Steven Jackson P R R 6' 5" 215 26 03-15-1982 Active No
61 Zachary Kroenke P R L 6' 3" 210 24 04-21-1984 Active No
41 Mark Melancon P R R 6' 2" 215 23 03-28-1985 Active No
-- Eric Milton P L L 6' 3" 220 33 08-04-1975 Active No
33 Oneli Perez P R R 6' 2" 200 25 05-26-1983 Active No
25 Scott Strickland P R R 5' 11" 215 32 04-26-1976 Active No
54 Eric Wordekemper P R R 6' 1" 200 25 08-08-1983 Active No
6 Victor Zambrano P S R 6' 0" 205 33 08-06-1975 Active No



Catchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
19 Jason Brown C R R 6' 2" 200 34 05-22-1974 Active No
26 Chris Stewart C R R 6' 4" 210 26 02-19-1982 Active No



Infielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
18 Chris Basak 2B R R 6' 2" 210 29 12-06-1978 Active No
51 Bernie Castro 2B S R 5' 10" 170 29 07-14-1979 Active No
12 Eric Duncan 3B L R 6' 3" 195 23 12-07-1984 Active No
5 Nick Green SS R R 6' 0" 180 30 09-10-1978 Active No
8 Addison Maruszak SS R R 6' 1" 195 21 12-21-1986 Active No
31 Ramiro Pena SS S R 5' 11" 165 23 07-18-1985 Active No



Outfielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
22 Tim Battle OF R R 6' 2" 185 23 09-10-1985 Active No
28 Ben Broussard LF L L 6' 2" 230 32 09-24-1976 Active No
36 Matt Carson

Managers & Coaches (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status
18 Tony Franklin Manager S R 5' 11" 180 58 06-09-1950 Active
55 Tom Wilson Batting Coach R R 6' 3" 220 37 12-19-1970 Active
56 Scott Aldred Pitching Coach L L 6' 3" 190 40 06-12-1968 Active
35 Julius Matos Coach R R 5' 11" 170 33 12-12-1974 Active



Pitchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
11 Wilkins Arias P L L 6' 1" 150 27 11-04-1980 Active No
34 Anthony Claggett P S R 6' 2" 185 24 07-15-1984 Active No
19 Michael Dunn P L L 6' 1" 185 23 05-23-1985 Active No
45 Christian Garcia P R R 6' 4" 220 23 08-24-1985 Active No
30 Michael Gardner P R R 6' 0" 190 27 05-23-1981 Active No
28 Eric Hacker P S R 6' 1" 215 25 03-26-1983 Active No
36 Jason Jones P R R 6' 5" 225 25 11-20-1982 Active No
20 George Kontos P R R 6' 3" 215 23 06-12-1985 Active No
26 Jhonny Nunez P R R 6' 3" 185 22 11-26-1985 Active No
-- Brett Smith P R R 6' 5" 220 25 08-12-1983 Active No
41 Jose Valdez P R R 6' 4" 186 25 01-22-1983 Active No
23 Kevin Whelan P R R 6' 0" 200 24 01-08-1984 Active No



Catchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
37 Joseph Muich C R R 6' 1" 205 26 08-18-1982 Active No
44 P.J. Pilittere C R R 6' 0" 215 26 11-23-1981 Active No
6 Eladio Rodriguez C R R 5' 11" 190 29 04-04-1979 Active No



Infielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
32 Reegie Corona 2B S R 5' 11" 160 21 11-07-1986 Active No
40 Walter Ibarra 3B S R 5' 11" 180 20 11-01-1987 Active No
17 Chris Malec 3B S R 5' 11" 195 26 08-28-1982 Active No
14 Carlos Mendoza 3B S R 6' 0" 191 28 11-27-1979 Active No
10 Kevin Russo 2B R R 5' 11" 190 24 07-08-1984 Active No
46 Marcos Vechionacci 3B S R 6' 2" 170 22 08-07-1986 Active No



Outfielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
46 James Cooper RF L R 5' 10" 190 24 02-18-1984 Active No
24 Colin Curtis LF L L 6' 1" 200 23 02-01-1985 Active No
25 Edwar Gonzalez RF R R 5' 10" 200 25 01-01-1983 Active No
31 Austin Jackson CF R R 6' 1" 185 21 02-01-1987 Active No

13 Torre Tyson Manager S R 5' 10" 185 32 12-31-1975 Active
28 Greg Colbrunn Batting Coach R R 6' 0" 215 39 07-26-1969 Active
31 Jeff Ware Pitching Coach R R 6' 3" 190 37 11-11-1970 Active
40 Henry Mercedes Coach R R 6' 1" 210 39 07-23-1969 Active



Pitchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
27 Stephen Artz P R R 6' 2" 200 24 04-23-1984 Active No
38 Dellin Betances P R R 6' 8" 245 20 03-23-1988 Active No
18 Jairo Heredia P R R 6' 1" 190 18 10-08-1989 Active No
17 Craig Heyer P R R 6' 3" 205 22 11-15-1985 Active No
34 Gabe Medina P R R 6' 5" 235 24 02-17-1984 Active No
25 Adam Olbrychowski P R R 6' 3" 205 22 09-07-1986 Active No
20 Jonathan Ortiz P R R 5' 10" 170 22 10-29-1985 Active No
37 Lance Pendleton P L R 6' 3" 205 25 09-10-1983 Active No
22 Angel Reyes P L L 5' 11" 170 21 01-08-1987 Active No
15 Chace Vacek P R R 6' 1" 200 25 08-12-1983 Active No
23 Ryan Zink P R R 6' 5" 230 23 04-01-1985 Active No



Catchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
35 Jesus Montero C R R 6' 4" 225 18 11-28-1989 Active No
10 Jeff Nutt C L R 5' 11" 200 23 04-22-1985 Restricted No
16 Austin Romine C R R 6' 2" 210 19 11-22-1988 Active No
9 Chase Weems C L R 6' 2" 170 19 01-17-1989 Active No



Infielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
5 Carmen Angelini SS R R 6' 2" 185 20 09-22-1988 Active No
8 Brandon Laird 1B R R 6' 1" 215 21 09-11-1987 Active No
33 Wady Rufino 1B R R 6' 2" 220 23 04-08-1985 7-day DL No
3 Justin Snyder 2B L R 5' 9" 190 22 04-08-1986 Active No
24 Bradley Suttle 3B S R 6' 2" 215 22 01-24-1986 Active No



Outfielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
26 Abraham Almonte CF S R 5' 9" 205 19 06-27-1989 Active No
21 Prilys Cuello LF S R 5' 11" 168 19 11-17-1988 Active No
2 Taylor Holiday LF R R 5' 11" 190 24 04-21-1984 Active No
1 Austin Krum RF L L 6' 0" 190 22 01-19-1986 Active No
12 Matt Morris LF R R 6' 1" 180 23 02-10-1985 Active No
32 David Williams RF R R 6' 3" 210 24 08-15-1984 Active No

Managers & Coaches (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status
19 Luis Sojo Manager R R 5' 11" 185 42 01-03-1966 Active
29 Aaron Ledesma Batting Coach R R 6' 2" 200 37 06-03-1971 Active
52 Greg Pavlick Pitching Coach R R 58 03-10-1950 Active
33 Danilo Valient Coach Active



Pitchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
50 Philip Bartleski P R R 6' 7" 240 25 04-22-1983 Active No
14 Noel Castillo P R R 6' 1" 160 24 10-05-1983 Active No
18 Wilkins De La Rosa P L L 6' 1" 185 23 02-21-1985 7-day DL No
54 Grant Duff P R R 6' 6" 210 25 12-19-1982 7-day DL No
56 Jesse Hoover P R R 6' 3" 210 26 01-08-1982 Active No
22 Alan Horne P R R 6' 4" 195 25 01-05-1983 7-day DL No
18 Jonathan Hovis P R R 5' 11" 185 24 12-27-1983 7-day DL No
44 Ronny Marte P R R 6' 1" 173 22 02-26-1986 Active No
51 Zach McAllister P R R 6' 6" 230 20 12-08-1987 7-day DL No
39 Ivan Nova P R R 6' 4" 210 21 01-12-1987 7-day DL No
-- Garrett Patterson P L L 6' 2" 220 26 05-11-1982 7-day DL No
-- Paul Patterson P R R 6' 7" 200 24 05-08-1984 7-day DL No
20 Ryan Pope P R R 6' 3" 200 22 05-21-1986 Active No
41 Josh Schmidt P R R 6' 4" 175 25 11-14-1982 Active No
59 Rob Semerano P R R 6' 1" 185 27 07-18-1981 Active No
48 Michael Solbach P R R 6' 3" 185 23 07-31-1985 Active No
53 Edgar Soto P L L 5' 11" 175 23 12-28-1984 Active No
31 Jason Stephens P R R 6' 5" 200 23 10-10-1984 Active No



Catchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
27 Kyle Anson C S R 6' 0" 200 25 04-21-1983 7-day DL No
28 Ryan J. Baker C R R 5' 9" 205 23 11-09-1984 Active No
58 Jose Gil C R R 6' 0" 170 22 09-04-1986 Active No



Infielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
25 Matthew Cusick 2B L R 5' 10" 190 22 05-05-1986 Active No
6 Mitch Hilligoss 3B L R 6' 1" 195 23 06-17-1985 Active No
46 Josh Kreuzer DH R R 6' 6" 245 26 09-28-1982 Active No
17 Chris Kunda 2B R R 6' 1" 175 23 11-01-1984 Active No
12 Eduardo Nunez SS R R 6' 0" 155 21 06-15-1987 Active No
11 Luis Nunez 2B R R 5' 11" 160 21 11-21-1986 Active No
30 Kevin Smith 1B L R 6' 1" 215 24 01-15-1984 Active No
2 Damon Sublett 2B L R 6' 1" 190 23 09-22-1985 7-day DL No



Outfielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
35 Tommy Baldridge RF L L 6' 1" 195 22 08-18-1986 Active No
13 Seth Fortenberry CF L L 6' 2" 175 25 09-01-1983 Active No
35 C.J. Henry LF R R 6' 3" 205 22 05-31-1986 7-day DL No
36 Andres Perez

53 Pat McMahon Manager 55 05-28-1953 Active
52 Ty Hawkins Batting Coach L R 5' 10" 180 40 11-08-1967 Active
51 Pat Daneker Pitching Coach R R 6' 3" 195 32 01-14-1976 Active
18 Victor Valencia Coach R R 6' 2" 185 31 05-30-1977 Active



Pitchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
36 Cory Arbiso P R R 6' 3" 185 22 04-21-1986 7-day DL No
58 Nick Asselin P R R 6' 0" 200 23 01-19-1985 Active No
22 Jeremy Bleich P L L 6' 2" 195 21 06-18-1987 Active No
59 Brandon Braboy P R R 6' 0" 195 22 10-31-1985 60-day DL No
56 Tim Dennehy P L L 6' 1" 195 22 09-22-1986 Active No
25 Casey Erickson P R R 6' 3" 187 23 08-28-1985 Active No
-- Daniel Gil P R R 6' 3" 187 19 04-24-1989 60-day DL No
20 Jacinto Gonell P R R 6' 1" 165 25 09-09-1983 Active No
30 Luke Greinke P R R 6' 1" 195 22 06-14-1986 60-day DL No
-- Pablo Hernandez P R R 6' 3" 170 20 03-01-1988 60-day DL No
60 Daniel Kapala P R R 6' 5" 220 23 09-06-1985 Active No
62 Jason Kiley P R R 6' 5" 235 23 06-14-1985 7-day DL No
50 Nick Montgomery P R R 6' 2" 218 24 08-28-1984 7-day DL No
43 Hector Noesi P R R 6' 2" 174 21 01-26-1987 Active No
-- Timothy Norton P R R 6' 5" 230 25 05-23-1983 60-day DL No
12 Michael Obradovich P R R 6' 0" 185 23 09-26-1985 Active No
35 David Phelps P R R 6' 3" 180 21 10-09-1986 Active No
57 Brad Rulon P L R 5' 11" 186 22 06-22-1986 Active No
26 Josue Selenes P R R 6' 0" 180 22 10-08-1985 Active No
34 Drew Shetrone P R R 6' 2" 185 24 09-18-1984 Active No
55 Andy Shive P R R 6' 6" 260 22 11-05-1985 Active No
13 Pat Venditte P R R 6' 1" 180 23 06-30-1985 Active No



Catchers (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
28 Mitch Abeita C R R 6' 0" 185 22 04-07-1986 Active No
6 Ben Blumenthal C R R 6' 2" 210 25 04-24-1983 Active No



Infielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
29 David Adams 2B R R 6' 2" 190 21 05-15-1987 Active No
45 Brian Baisley 1B R R 6' 3" 223 25 12-19-1982 Active No
48 Kelvin Castro SS R R 6' 3" 164 20 12-14-1987 Active No
22 Brian Chavez 2B R R 6' 2" 190 22 03-23-1986 Active No
63 Roy Gomez 3B R R 5' 11" 160 23 01-07-1985 Active No
27 Erik Lovett 1B L L 6' 1" 180 23 08-22-1985 7-day DL No
47 Mike Lyon 3B R R 6' 2" 220 22 08-13-1986 Active No
2 Braedyn Pruitt 3B L R 6' 2" 205 23 03-23-1985 Active No
33 Jahdiel Santamaria 1B R R 6' 3" 170 21 04-05-1987 Active No
11 Steve Strausbaugh DH R R 5' 9" 200 22 11-04-1985 Active No
58 Ryan Wilkes 2B S R 5' 11" 190 23 08-22-1985 Restricted No



Outfielders (click column headers to sort)
Num Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt Age DOB Status 40-man MLB
14 Daniel Brewer RF R R 6' 0" 185 21 07-19-1987 Active No
24 Taylor Grote LF L R 6' 2" 195 19 12-05-1988 Active No
31 Raymond Kruml CF L R 5' 11" 175 23 08-05-1985 Active No
21 Melky Mesa RF R R 6' 1" 165 21 01-31-1987 7-day DL No
54 Jack Rye

[Gom]

What? I don't get it.

You guys here at Talksox should really keep people with Down's Syndrome from posting here.

[CrespoBlows]

What? I don't get it.

You guys here at Talksox should really keep people with Down's Syndrome from posting here.

Good lord, you are stupid.

This is a play of one of your jokes about how Jacko thinks every Yankee prospect will be a HOF.

[Gom]

Brain fart...my bad.

Still, you could have made your point without a half a page thread. :)

[YAZMAN]

Good lord, you are stupid.

This is a play of one of your jokes about how Jacko thinks every Yankee prospect will be a HOF.


Wait, you forgot this one:

http://www.ci.san-ramon.ca.us/Parks/programs/afterschool/images/tee_ball.jpg