Granderson for MVP

[jacksonianmarch]

I didnt think this was possible, but now I think he could be the frontrunner for MVP. Look at the numbers

First the slash line
.275/.367/.579 for an OPS of .946.

Now for the individual stats and rank
Runs- 104- 1st in AL (and MLB )
Triples- 9- 1st in AL (4th in MLB )
Homeruns- 32- 2nd-t in AL (2nd-t in MLB )
RBI- 93- 1st in AL (and MLB )
SB- 22- 9th in AL

The two big knocks are the K's (4th in AL) and his defense this yr has been poor by UZR (-8) although it was solid last yr. Regardless, he's been the key cog in the Yankee machine and I think right now, you have to think he's the leader in the AL

[AtWork]

I didnt think this was possible, but now I think he could be the frontrunner for MVP. Look at the numbers

First the slash line
.275/.367/.579 for an OPS of .946.

Now for the individual stats and rank
Runs- 104- 1st in AL (and MLB )
Triples- 9- 1st in AL (4th in MLB )
Homeruns- 32- 2nd-t in AL (2nd-t in MLB )
RBI- 93- 1st in AL (and MLB )
SB- 22- 9th in AL

The two big knocks are the K's (4th in AL) and his defense this yr has been poor by UZR (-8) although it was solid last yr. Regardless, he's been the key cog in the Yankee machine and I think right now, you have to think he's the leader in the AL

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

He'll finish in the top 5 just like CC will be in the top 5 for Cy Young but he won't and should not win. I give it a month before you start talking about how CC should win the Cy Young but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who should be the leader then? AdGon has a similar OPS, less HR, RBI, SB, and Runs and plays a less important defensive position. Ellsbury? Much lower OPS, less HR, RBI, more SB, less Runs and plays better D in CF.

Bautista is the only guy that I think is giving Grandy a run right now. Obviously, there's still 6 weeks left, but Bautista is probably 1a right now. His knocks are the SBs, the defensive position and the fact that his team isnt good.

[AtWork]

Who should be the leader then? AdGon has a similar OPS, less HR, RBI, SB, and Runs and plays a less important defensive position. Ellsbury? Much lower OPS, less HR, RBI, more SB, less Runs and plays better D in CF.

Gonzalez will win it. He best fits the traditional model of a high AVG, higher OPS, HR hitting, RBI producing player on a first place team. Plus he doesn't suck on defense. Like it or not, this is still a very traditional award.

If we're talking about who should win it, I would pick Dustin Pedroia but Ellsbury and Bautista would also be more deserving.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yanks are a playoff team, Granderson has way more HR, now leads him in RBI and has scored more runs. And Grandy has a better WAR by 0.5

[BigPapiEnFuego]

The only way the abbreviation of MVP ever makes sense when used with the yankees is if we are talking about Most Veneral disease infested Prick.

Jeter and A-Rod are annual frontrunners

[AtWork]

The Yanks are a playoff team, Granderson has way more HR, now leads him in RBI and has scored more runs.

When's the last time a player hitting .275 won the AL MVP?

Sorry, but you're way off on this one.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I think the top 5 in the MVP voting will end up being Gonzalez, Bautista, Ellsbury, Granderson, and either Pedroia or Tiexera. I just have no idea what order they'll be in.

[Palodios]

Granderson is mediocre defensively, is hitting only .270, and is 4th in the league in strikeouts. Sure, Adrian Gonzalez has fewer homers and triples, but he also has 17 more doubles and 50 more total hits than Granderson. 50!

Granderson is 5th in WAR right now. Sure he's in the conversation, but to say he's any better than #3 is pushing it.

[AtWork]

Granderson is mediocre defensively, is hitting only .270, and is 4th in the league in strikeouts. Sure, Adrian Gonzalez has fewer homers and triples, but he also has 17 more doubles and 50 more total hits than Granderson. 50!

Granderson is 5th in WAR right now. Sure he's in the conversation, but to say he's any better than #3 is pushing it.

You're being a homer, he HAS to be the leading candidate.

[AtWork]

When's the last time a player hitting .275 won the AL MVP?

If you're still looking, the answer's 1965.

[redsoxrules]

LOL @ this thread

[Youk Of The Nation]

Granderson takes a one RBI lead over Gonzalez and a few hours later, jacko says 'I didn't believe it was possible, but now I think he might be the favorite for MVP!!!!!' What happens tomorrow when Gonzalez takes the lead back? :lol:

[AtWork]

In the history of the award, only 3 players have hit .275 or lower and won the award. One was Roger Marris in 1961, one was Zoilo Versalles in 1965 who hit .273/.319/.462 but lead his league on total bases and the other was Yogi Berra in 1955.

So unless Granderson sets a new MLB record for home runs, leads his league in total bases or is a catcher, he's not winning.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I always thought MVP was more of an offensive award. I always thought they didn't take much stock in defense.


Overall I'd say Gonzalez has another month like May or June he gets MVP. Even a few weeks like that would be good. But if he keeps hitting like he has since the ASB he won't and it may be Granderson.

All signs point to Gonzalez not hitting for low power like he is now so I think the chances he get it is high

[boston22407]

STOP JACKO!

[Rdsxmbnt]

Sure Gonzalez plays at a less important defensive position, but he plays it at an elite level. Granderson plays an important defensive position poorly

[redsoxrules]

Pedroia is also above Granderson in the MVP race IMO

[yankees228]

The award should go to Bautista or Pedroia, although, as many have said, I could also see Gonzalez winning it.

[AtWork]

Granderson
AVG - .275 (35th)
OBP - .367 (18th)
Hits - 118 (23rd)
Doubles - 18 (62nd)
Walks - 59 (10th)

He's a shoe in!

[SoxFanForsyth]

WAR Leaders in the AL:

Bautista: 6.8
Pedroia: 6.7
Ellsbury: 5.7
Zobrist: 5.6
Granderson: 5.2

Sorry dude. Ellsbury is a better CF than Granderson.

Stats followed by ranking in AL
Ellsbury - Granderson

.314 BA (9th) - .275 (35th)
.876 OPS (9th) - .949 (4th)
84 R (2nd) - 105 (1st)
150 H (3rd) - 118 (23rd)
31 2B (7th) - 18 (62nd)
19 HR (15th) - 32 (2nd)
72 RBI (12th) - 93 (1st)
31 SB (4th) - 22 (9th)

It's really not even close. Ellsbury is a much better and complete player. He's in the top 10 in the AL in all but two major categories. And this doesn't even incorporate his far superior defense.

[Rdsxmbnt]

WAR Leaders in the AL:

Bautista: 6.8
Pedroia: 6.7
Ellsbury: 5.7
Zobrist: 5.6
Granderson: 5.2

Sorry dude. Ellsbury is a better CF than Granderson.

Stats followed by ranking in AL
Ellsbury - Granderson

.314 BA (9th) - .275 (35th)
.876 OPS (9th) - .949 (4th)
84 R (2nd) - 105 (1st)
150 H (3rd) - 118 (23rd)
31 2B (7th) - 18 (62nd)
19 HR (15th) - 32 (2nd)
72 RBI (12th) - 93 (1st)
31 SB (4th) - 22 (9th)

It's really not even close. Ellsbury is a much better and complete player. He's in the top 10 in the AL in all but two major categories. And this doesn't even incorporate his far superior defense.

And the two categories hes not are almost never associated with leadoff hitters, the fact that he has 19 HR and 72 RBI is pretty rare

[SoxFanForsyth]

With a UZR of -10.0 per Fangraphs, Granderson is actually the worst defensive center fielder in the MLB, while Ellsbury's 7.5 UZR ranks 4th best in the MLB.

[AtWork]

PLEASE do not ever ban Jacko. This kind of entertainment is priceless.

[Coco's Disciples]

I'd still give it to Bautista. Can't wait for the arguments over semantics and the meaning of the word "valuable" to come up again, as they do every single year.

[AtWork]

I would have no problem with Bautista winning the award. IMO the award should go to the best player in their league. A player shouldn't be penalized because they're on a bad team because chances are if they were on a better team, their numbers would also be better.

[jacksonianmarch]

And the two categories hes not are almost never associated with leadoff hitters, the fact that he has 19 HR and 72 RBI is pretty rare

So it isnt close even though Granderson has a higher OPS, HR, 3B, R, and RBI? Are we overrating BA just a bit right now, seeing as we have learned that BA is somewhat of a primitive statistic? And I think many people on this site have supported the idea that UZR is more of a multi-yr trend rather than a single season stat. I think those who supported Ells in CF last yr were touting that. How things have changed with the shoe on the other foot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Granderson
AVG - .275 (35th)
OBP - .367 (18th)
Hits - 118 (23rd)
Doubles - 18 (62nd)
Walks - 59 (10th)

He's a shoe in!

Let's conveniently leave out SLG, HR, R, and RBI. I can leave out relevant stats as well, but, well, I'm not a hypocrite

[Youk Of The Nation]

He's leading the RBI column by one. Also, I think you can stop mentioning triples, as the only time anyone has ever taken triples into account when voting has been at the Adult Film Awards.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Let's conveniently leave out SLG, HR, R, and RBI. I can leave out relevant stats as well, but, well, I'm not a hypocrite

So you don't think being out of the top 20 in hits, top 15 in OBP and being only 10th in walks will count against him at all when the voters are deciding? You don't think there's any possibility that overall hits and OBP are considered important?

Someone who is better at finding stats than me please find out when the last time an MVP winner has been further out than 20th in hits or 15th in OBP (Excluding pitchers, of course)

[iortiz]

What in the hell should be considered to win the MVP then...? What?.

A-GOD is not in his best pace right now, but if he starts performing as May or June, he definitely will win.

[Palodios]

Let's conveniently leave out SLG, HR, R, and RBI. I can leave out relevant stats as well, but, well, I'm not a hypocrite

Seriously man, you've left out plenty of relevant stats.

[SoxFanForsyth]

So you don't think being out of the top 20 in hits, top 15 in OBP and being only 10th in walks will count against him at all when the voters are deciding? You don't think there's any possibility that overall hits and OBP are considered important?

Someone who is better at finding stats than me please find out when the last time an MVP winner has been further out than 20th in hits or 15th in OBP (Excluding pitchers, of course)

2010: J. Hamilton - 186 Hits (6th), .411 OBP (2nd)
2009: J. Mauer - 191 Hits (6th), .444 OBP (1st)
2008: D. Pedroia - 213 Hits (1st), .376 OBP (10th)
2007: A. Rodriguez - 183 Hits (13th), .422 OBP (4th)
2006: J. Morneau - 190 Hits (7th), .375 OBP (17th)
2005: V. Guerrero - 165 Hits (28th), .394 OBP (5th)

2011 Jacko Favorite - 118 Hits (23rd), .367 OBP (18th)

Jacko. Be real. No MVP over the past 6 years has been out of the top 7 in at least 1 of the two categories. And you are saying that Granderson is the favorite even though he's not even in the top 15 in EITHER category?? Get a freaking clue.

And FWIW, when Vlad was 28th in Hits, he still hit .317 (3rd in AL)

[ORS]

So it isnt close even though Granderson has a higher OPS, HR, 3B, R, and RBI? Are we overrating BA just a bit right now, seeing as we have learned that BA is somewhat of a primitive statistic? And I think many people on this site have supported the idea that UZR is more of a multi-yr trend rather than a single season stat. I think those who supported Ells in CF last yr were touting that. How things have changed with the shoe on the other foot.
You've got that legitimate UZR issue way wrong in terms of this discussion. UZR over a 3 year period gives you a more accurate assessment of a player's defensive ability than a 1 year sample does. However, we are only talking about this year. In terms of a one year MVP discussion, UZR is fine as a snapshot for how they played that year and that year alone, but it has little predictive value about future years.

The numbers stand for this year.

[AtWork]

So it isnt close even though Granderson has a higher OPS, HR, 3B, R, and RBI? Are we overrating BA just a bit right now, seeing as we have learned that BA is somewhat of a primitive statistic? And I think many people on this site have supported the idea that UZR is more of a multi-yr trend rather than a single season stat. I think those who supported Ells in CF last yr were touting that. How things have changed with the shoe on the other foot.

I agree that AVG is a primitive statistic, but we're not the ones who vote on the award. And for the people who do vote on the award, AVG clearly matters as evidenced by the fact that only 3 players in the history of the award have won it with an AVG of .275 or lower and that hasn't happened since 1965.

Which one are you trying to argue Jacko, that Granderson deserves to win the award or that the voters who vote on the award are going to vote for him? Because those are two clearly different things.

[AtWork]

Let's conveniently leave out SLG, HR, R, and RBI. I can leave out relevant stats as well, but, well, I'm not a hypocrite

Just filling in the gaps that YOU conveniently forgot to mention. You stated where he ranked in triples but left out AVG? Bitch, please!

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

2010: J. Hamilton - 186 Hits (6th), .411 OBP (2nd)
2009: J. Mauer - 191 Hits (6th), .444 OBP (1st)
2008: D. Pedroia - 213 Hits (1st), .376 OBP (10th)
2007: A. Rodriguez - 183 Hits (13th), .422 OBP (4th)
2006: J. Morneau - 190 Hits (7th), .375 OBP (17th)
2005: V. Guerrero - 165 Hits (28th), .394 OBP (5th)

2011 Jacko Favorite - 118 Hits (23rd), .367 OBP (18th)

Jacko. Be real. No MVP over the past 6 years has been out of the top 7 in at least 1 of the two categories. And you are saying that Granderson is the favorite even though he's not even in the top 15 in EITHER category?? Get a freaking clue.

And FWIW, when Vlad was 28th in Hits, he still hit .317 (3rd in AL)

Survey says.......

Ding*

[BornToRun]

I think we're forgetting the fact that he's a Yankee though, he leads the league in Class percentage and his Mystique+Aura average is on pace to be to the highest in 10 years.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I think we're forgetting the fact that he's a Yankee though, he leads the league in Class percentage and his Mystique+Aura average is on pace to be to the highest in 10 years.

:lol: This thread is now over

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I think as long as they keep giving Jeter a gold glove every year, anything is possible.


B)

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

His GG last year was a fluke.

[BornToRun]

Jeter gets GG's because of one catch he made in 2004, the one where he caught a pop-up and then decided to look pretty by pulling a Thurman Munson piloting lesson into the stands.

[Youk Of The Nation]

2010: J. Hamilton - 186 Hits (6th), .411 OBP (2nd)
2009: J. Mauer - 191 Hits (6th), .444 OBP (1st)
2008: D. Pedroia - 213 Hits (1st), .376 OBP (10th)
2007: A. Rodriguez - 183 Hits (13th), .422 OBP (4th)
2006: J. Morneau - 190 Hits (7th), .375 OBP (17th)
2005: V. Guerrero - 165 Hits (28th), .394 OBP (5th)

2011 Jacko Favorite - 118 Hits (23rd), .367 OBP (18th)

Jacko. Be real. No MVP over the past 6 years has been out of the top 7 in at least 1 of the two categories. And you are saying that Granderson is the favorite even though he's not even in the top 15 in EITHER category?? Get a freaking clue.

And FWIW, when Vlad was 28th in Hits, he still hit .317 (3rd in AL)

And on top of that, Morneau with the lowest ranked OBP on this list, was the one that made everyone say "What?!".

Even I, as a Sox fan, would have figured A-Rod in 2006, Morneau came right the fuck out of nowhere.

[AtWork]

I think we're forgetting the fact that he's a Yankee though, he leads the league in Class percentage and his Mystique+Aura average is on pace to be to the highest in 10 years.

:lol:

That would explain why a Yankees player and not Ted Williams won the MVP Award both times that he hit for the triple crown.

[YANKEESRULE]

Jeter gets GG's because of one catch he made in 2004, the one where he caught a pop-up and then decided to look pretty by pulling a Thurman Munson piloting lesson into the stands.

That's pretty low man, how would you like it if I called Lester cancer boy.

[AtWork]

That's pretty low man, how would you like it if I called Lester cancer boy.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9uEvd6yHqew/TZvEu8QAPCI/AAAAAAAAAFw/DC1YeIKzyQw/s1600/wambulance.jpg

[boston22407]

Just close this thread already please !

[Emmz]

He's leading the RBI column by one. Also, I think you can stop mentioning triples, as the only time anyone has ever taken triples into account when voting has been at the Adult Film Awards.

hi5

[example1]

Fangraphs lists Granderson as the 5th most valuable CF in baseball (by WAR) behind Ellsbury, Kemp, Victorino and McCutchen. Sorry, but defense matters in CF and Granderson is below average as WAR measures it.

I actually think that Pedroia is making a really good run at the award again. It isn't hard to argue that Pedroia is having a better year than he did in 2008. He's drawing more walks and has an OBP near .400 with a pretty solid slugging percentage.

Watching most of the games, Pedroia just doesn't seem to do anything wrong on the field. He makes tremendous defensive plays, puts up some of the most difficult ABs of any player in baseball, runs the bases well, and helps his team win games year in and year out. If the season ended today he would get my vote.

[a700hitter]

Fangraphs lists Granderson as the 5th most valuable CF in baseball (by WAR) behind Ellsbury, Kemp, Victorino and McCutchen. Sorry, but defense matters in CF and Granderson is below average as WAR measures it.

I actually think that Pedroia is making a really good run at the award again. It isn't hard to argue that Pedroia is having a better year than he did in 2008. He's drawing more walks and has an OBP near .400 with a pretty solid slugging percentage.

Watching most of the games, Pedroia just doesn't seem to do anything wrong on the field. He makes tremendous defensive plays, puts up some of the most difficult ABs of any player in baseball, runs the bases well, and helps his team win games year in and year out. If the season ended today he would get my vote.As of today, I'd vote for Ellsbury.