Red Sox Offense – Bold Moves

[bostopz]

Player’s need to be held accountable. The team isn’t hitting like it should not close. And Castillo is coming. What are some moves you think the sox will make?


Mike Napoli – When do the sox say they’ve had enough? Excellent defense but his hitting is god-awful. Right now there isn’t much to do unless you consider platooning him until he shows you something. Do you think platooning? If so what is breaking point to do it? Platoon him with Holt? Or if season is declared over (long ways away from that) – consider moving Ramirez to first base? When does sox management say they had enough of a lousy hitting Napoli if he doesn’t improve much and he is likely gone next year? Or if he improves and we’re out of it when do you put him on the bench?


Victorino – IS there a type of pitcher he gets overwhelmed by at this point in his career? Play him 2 out of every 3 days as long as he is hitting decent and the sox are in the playoff hunt?


Nava—In 2013 he tanked in the playoffs I think. Understandable. Last year when we needed him early in the year he tanked. He did well when the season was basically over. This year so far we have a repeat performance of god-awful hitting. He tanked yet again for us when we needed him early. Will there ever be breaking point with this guy that you have had enough and just trade him?


Panda part 1– He thinks he is going to come around right-handed but what would be the breaking point? I thought we’d be a 4th place team this year so I’m okay with his 1st year “waiting” for him to work out his right-handed woes despite his trend showing otherwise. He’s an automatic right-handed hitting out. What would be the breaking point by pulling him consistently late when we need a big hit in 8th or 9th inning when opposing team has a lefty? Would that embarrass him enough to scrap hitting right-handed? Heck you can even pull him for a left handed-hitter and he’ll probably hit the lefty better than Panda has shown. How long do you wait for him to show you he can be at least decent as a righty otherwise pinch hit for him regularly?


Papi – One my favorite players ever – what is the breaking point for having him hit 3rd? Right now we don’t really have a legit 3 hitter (maybe you can say Ramirez) in terms of performance – but if a player would emerge would the sox have the guts to drop Papi to 5 or 6? And he is probably going to be back next year – if he continues to hit pretty bad would the sox have the guts to be hard on him?


Panda part 2 – If he could show he can hit decent right-handed (or bat left-handed vs lefties and hit decent that way) and hit very good left-handed vs righties, do you think he can be a 3 hitter? And if he is a legit .300 hitter who also is decent vs lefties – do you think the sox would have the guts to use him as a 3 and drop Ortiz?

[mvp 78]

Don't move Ramirez to a new position midseason. Maybe next year, but not now.

[Kimmi]

I think people think that giving up switch hitting is easier than it is. If you've batted from the right side against LHP your whole career, turning around and batting from the other side is probably not as easy as it seems. I'm not sure there would be a significant improvement from Panda batting lefty against lefty. Same reason Varitek never did it. Victorino did it out of necessity, and is probably the exception to the rule.

[bostopz]

I think people think that giving up switch hitting is easier than it is. If you've batted from the right side against LHP your whole career, turning around and batting from the other side is probably not as easy as it seems. I'm not sure there would be a significant improvement from Panda batting lefty against lefty. Same reason Varitek never did it. Victorino did it out of necessity, and is probably the exception to the rule.

However we know sometimes people are resistant to change. It happens to many people-- ball players are not exempt. In this case these pros have succeeded all their lives - and basically leading up to their pro ball career they've silenced many of their critics through their sheer will and stubbornness. Sometimes that becomes their undoing.

If Victorino can do it- maybe so can Panda. If he never tries we'll never know. For me as a fan (which panda can care less about) -- I can wait with no harsh statements this year. If he wants to try to work it out for a year I don't think our Sox will be much of a factor- then go for it. But if his pathetic disgraceful right-handed hitting extends into mid-may next year and we have a legit chance to be contenders, Farrell has to consider platooning him if he doesn't try the left-handed alternative. Which the platooning would be outrageous but the team can't live with "two-for forty-one," can they?

Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. You can't have such a miserable right-handed hitter in your lienup batting 5th or 6th -- unless you are going to actively pinch hit for him.

[a700hitter]

However we know sometimes people are resistant to change. It happens to many people-- ball players are not exempt. In this case these pros have succeeded all their lives - and basically leading up to their pro ball career they've silenced many of their critics through their sheer will and stubbornness. Sometimes that becomes their undoing.

If Victorino can do it- maybe so can Panda. If he never tries we'll never know. For me as a fan (which panda can care less about) -- I can wait with no harsh statements this year. If he wants to try to work it out for a year I don't think our Sox will be much of a factor- then go for it. But if his pathetic disgraceful right-handed hitting extends into mid-may next year and we have a legit chance to be contenders, Farrell has to consider platooning him if he doesn't try the left-handed alternative. Which the platooning would be outrageous but the team can't live with "two-for forty-one," can they?

Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. Panda is two-for-forty-one right-handed. You can't have such a miserable right-handed hitter in your lienup batting 5th or 6th -- unless you are going to actively pinch hit for him.I don't think it will be an easy transition, but he really has nothing to lose. His career splits against lefties are pretty bad and 2014 was putrid. This season is looking even worse.

[Palodios]

I honestly don't understand switch hitting. The majority of switch hitters we have seen suck from the other side of the plate, and suck badly. Why not continue hitting with against your side, so you atleast get more ABs to potentially improve your dominant side?

[cp176]

here is a bold move for you - Bring up Castillo and try something different. Possibly even give Brentz a shot. JbJ sadly is on borrowed time. He needs to hit or go. Castillo appears to currently be healthy. It can't be about the $. We need hitters and he or even they could provide them.

[yankthis]

I'll agree about Napoli. Patience is indeed a virtue and you've got to give slumping players their chance to shake it off, but letting a guy go 6-for-90 in 20 games adds a few notches to the "L" column. The sun has set on him; it is time for him to go home and watch the games on TV.

[Palodios]

Napoli has seen a much bigger decline against righties. His split against lefties seems okay: .206/.357/.382/.740

Nava probably goes first.

[Kimmi]

here is a bold move for you - Bring up Castillo and try something different. Possibly even give Brentz a shot. JbJ sadly is on borrowed time. He needs to hit or go. Castillo appears to currently be healthy. It can't be about the $. We need hitters and he or even they could provide them.

Farrell hinted today that Castillo will be brought up soon. He is on paternity leave right now, and he may be with the Red Sox shortly after he returns if not as soon as he returns.

[Spudboy]

Anyone here wondering about Craig? After he was sent down to Pawtucket, he now has been waived. No team claimed him and his 31 mil contract.

I wonder what happens now. I assume that the Sox will trade him and eat more salary.

At what point does a team believe that they may have eaten too much money in this process?

[Kimmi]

Anyone here wondering about Craig? After he was sent down to Pawtucket, he now has been waived. No team claimed him and his 31 mil contract.

I wonder what happens now. I assume that the Sox will trade him and eat more salary.

At what point does a team believe that they may have eaten too much money in this process?

Personally, I hope the Sox keep him and let him play everyday in AAA to see if he can regain his stroke.

[Kimmi]

I honestly don't understand switch hitting. The majority of switch hitters we have seen suck from the other side of the plate, and suck badly. Why not continue hitting with against your side, so you atleast get more ABs to potentially improve your dominant side?

There are some exceptions, but on the whole, the left/right splits for switch hitters are smaller than the left/right splits for those who bat from one side only. In other words, most switch hitters would do worse batting from their "strong" side against a like-handed pitcher.

[cp176]

Anyone here wondering about Craig? After he was sent down to Pawtucket, he now has been waived. No team claimed him and his 31 mil contract.

I wonder what happens now. I assume that the Sox will trade him and eat more salary.

At what point does a team believe that they may have eaten too much money in this process?


He went 2 for 5 last night and is playing first tonight.

[GomesBeard]

Nava needs to go for sure. I think Napoli can use a little more time - right-handed power is hard to come by, and he certainly has that when he is on. He is very streaky. I also would like to see them keep Craig in AAA and see if he can hit again. We need to find the Carl Willis of hitting coaches to fix the offense.... But I do think the hitters will hit.

[sk7326]

We know what the bold move is - just a matter of when Castillo and the org are ready to pull the trigger.

[Spudboy]

Victorino is hitting very well in a sample. If he stays healthy and productive I don't see him being replaced.

[GomesBeard]

Victorino is hitting very well in a sample. If he stays healthy and productive I don't see him being replaced.

Jinx!

[Spudboy]

Jinx!

Well I stated the obvious and then he tweaks a calf or something.

As I said, "IF HE STAYS HEALTHY". His recent offensive spurt was fools gold. He does not stay healthy.

[Bellhorn04]

Well I stated the obvious and then he tweaks a calf or something.

As I said, "IF HE STAYS HEALTHY". His recent offensive spurt was fools gold. He does not stay healthy.

Even when he's healthy he's day to day.

[Spudboy]

Even when he's healthy he's a ? for the next game.

Yes he is. And that is why I can't see counting on him to stay healthy enough to contribute any where near the level of his performance in 2013. It's a shame because he has the skills.

[NativeBostonian]

I think both Nava and Jackie Bradley Jr. need to go. But, if the Red Sox are only going to get rid of one, then I hate to say it, because I hate Jackie with a passion. But, it needs to be Nava that is sent away.

Both players can’t hit a side of a barn. But, at least Jackie can save some runs from being scored. That and he’d make a good pinch runner when you have situations where you need someone with speed on base instead of a slow David Ortiz.

In a perfect world though, both players would get the axe. Especially Jackie Bradley Jr..I mean for God sakes, how long are we going to give this kid? He got an entire year and some of this and he hasn’t shown any signs that he can hit at this level.

Jackie needs someone to sit down and tell him that he is either going to be a career minor leaguer, or a bench guy who comes in to run for someone or if we need some defensive help.

[mvp 78]

Agreed! 11 AT BATS IS CLEARLY ENOUGH TIME TO JUDGE WHETHER HE HAS IMPROVED OR NOT!!!!

[mvp 78]

Get rid of that dumpster fire! Bring up Brentz!

[jacksonianmarch]

Jackie hasn't been given a legitimate shot, but at the same time, he has shown no capability to handle the spotlight. He got a full year last yr and instead of improving, he turtled. I think Farrell is using him as he feels he is best suited, as a late inning defensive replacement and 4th OFer. My bet is that the sox deal JBJ for something of value to try and make the POs as every team in the AL East has sucked for the most part and the division is wide open for the taking. And depending on the spot, JBJ should thrive. If he was dealt to TB or Philly where the expectations (or the fan base in terms of TB) just aren't there, he should play well. I think I said when he came up that he was probably a bottom tier starting CFer as his upside. Not a lot of power. Solid defense. Minor league solid hit tool. Not a lot of speed. He's a young Melky Cabrera with better D and worse power.

[jacksonianmarch]

So I have a theoretical for you guys. You have the option to deal for a middle of the order power hitter or an ace. Let's put this in a bubble and consider salary, length of contract and trade pieces the same. Which trade do you pull off?

[Spudboy]

Agreed! 11 AT BATS IS CLEARLY ENOUGH TIME TO JUDGE WHETHER HE HAS IMPROVED OR NOT!!!!

Lulz. And those AB were against good pitching.

Still, if the Sox are not going to give him regular starts then he should be in Pawtucket playing every day. Maybe he can put up consistently good numbers down there.

[Spudboy]

So I have a theoretical for you guys. You have the option to deal for a middle of the order power hitter or an ace. Let's put this in a bubble and consider salary, length of contract and trade pieces the same. Which trade do you pull off?

Obviously both types of players are at a premium. For the Sox, who have on paper at least several middle of the order power type hitters, I'd look for an Ace.

The Sox need two top of the rotation guys.

[sk7326]

So I have a theoretical for you guys. You have the option to deal for a middle of the order power hitter or an ace. Let's put this in a bubble and consider salary, length of contract and trade pieces the same. Which trade do you pull off?

For a 3-5 year time horizon, the power hitter.

For this year's team - the ace would make a larger marginal difference to a part of the team less likely to improve naturally.

[NativeBostonian]

Jackie hasn't been given a legitimate shot, but at the same time, he has shown no capability to handle the spotlight. He got a full year last yr and instead of improving, he turtled. I think Farrell is using him as he feels he is best suited, as a late inning defensive replacement and 4th OFer. My bet is that the sox deal JBJ for something of value to try and make the POs as every team in the AL East has sucked for the most part and the division is wide open for the taking. And depending on the spot, JBJ should thrive. If he was dealt to TB or Philly where the expectations (or the fan base in terms of TB) just aren't there, he should play well. I think I said when he came up that he was probably a bottom tier starting CFer as his upside. Not a lot of power. Solid defense. Minor league solid hit tool. Not a lot of speed. He's a young Melky Cabrera with better D and worse power.

What’s a legitimate shot to you? Most players who played as bad as Jackie did offensively wouldn’t have gotten the full year to prove himself.

[NativeBostonian]

For a 3-5 year time horizon, the power hitter.

For this year's team - the ace would make a larger marginal difference to a part of the team less likely to improve naturally.

I'd play it out a little. Right now, the pitching isn't the thing that is hurting us, it is the offense. See if the pitching staff can consistently pitch well before we get something we might not need.

[sk7326]

I'd play it out a little. Right now, the pitching isn't the thing that is hurting us, it is the offense. See if the pitching staff can consistently pitch well before we get something we might not need.

Oh I would too - the question asked what would I do if I made a deal. I just expect the offense to perk up because the results have been so bizarre so far.

[a700hitter]

Castillo has been called up and Bradley sent down, most likely to be traded at some point.

[jacksonianmarch]

What’s a legitimate shot to you? Most players who played as bad as Jackie did offensively wouldn’t have gotten the full year to prove himself.

Legitimate shot this year

[bostopz]

So I have a theoretical for you guys. You have the option to deal for a middle of the order power hitter or an ace. Let's put this in a bubble and consider salary, length of contract and trade pieces the same. Which trade do you pull off?


I'm with spudboy- I'd take the ace.

[cp176]

Jackie hasn't been given a legitimate shot, but at the same time, he has shown no capability to handle the spotlight. He got a full year last yr and instead of improving, he turtled. I think Farrell is using him as he feels he is best suited, as a late inning defensive replacement and 4th OFer. My bet is that the sox deal JBJ for something of value to try and make the POs as every team in the AL East has sucked for the most part and the division is wide open for the taking. And depending on the spot, JBJ should thrive. If he was dealt to TB or Philly where the expectations (or the fan base in terms of TB) just aren't there, he should play well. I think I said when he came up that he was probably a bottom tier starting CFer as his upside. Not a lot of power. Solid defense. Minor league solid hit tool. Not a lot of speed. He's a young Melky Cabrera with better D and worse power.

Jackie Bradley has speed. Not a base stealer but he is fast. I don't know if it is for the better or worse but I think that he is done in Boston. He has had time to show what he can do and at this point it's obvious to everybody what his strengths and weaknesses are. Time to turn the page. Same goes for Nava. He has been a role player for a number of years but it is time to move on. Give that job to somebody else. A shame about Victorino - lots of talent still but if he can't play, he can't help. Seriously, I think that all of this so called stockpiled talent that we accumulated is just becoming a gross over estimate by everybody. I hope Castillo hits. I would also like to see him catch the ball with both hands now and then. Still not a bad thing. I don't think anybody really knows how to solve this team's problems and I don't think anyone is really to blame for anything other than the players themselves. One thing that most successful people do realize is that if you continuously do the same thing over and over and over and over and it doesn't work then you are stupid. No one could have predicted what has happened to this team. No one here, can say I told you so. They are just going to have to work through a tough time. We have seen worse. I'm still waiting for that "great young player" to emerge. I'm not sure we really have one. It would be nice if we just had something to get excited about. I'm not talking about the guy who needs 3 to 5 years to develop. I want a reason to be excited for them even if it is with an eye to the future.

[Kimmi]

I am excited about our great young players, Xander, Mookie, and Swihart, even though they aren't performing right now the way we hope they eventually will. Swihart was thrown into a tough situation before he was ready. Xander and Mookie are still very young, and likely feeling more pressure because the veteran guys are stinking so badly. They will emerge.

[a700hitter]

Jackie Bradley has speed. Not a base stealer but he is fast. I don't know if it is for the better or worse but I think that he is done in Boston. He has had time to show what he can do and at this point it's obvious to everybody what his strengths and weaknesses are. Time to turn the page. Same goes for Nava. He has been a role player for a number of years but it is time to move on. Give that job to somebody else. A shame about Victorino - lots of talent still but if he can't play, he can't help. Seriously, I think that all of this so called stockpiled talent that we accumulated is just becoming a gross over estimate by everybody. I hope Castillo hits. I would also like to see him catch the ball with both hands now and then. Still not a bad thing. I don't think anybody really knows how to solve this team's problems and I don't think anyone is really to blame for anything other than the players themselves. One thing that most successful people do realize is that if you continuously do the same thing over and over and over and over and it doesn't work then you are stupid. No one could have predicted what has happened to this team. No one here, can say I told you so. They are just going to have to work through a tough time. We have seen worse. I'm still waiting for that "great young player" to emerge. I'm not sure we really have one. It would be nice if we just had something to get excited about. I'm not talking about the guy who needs 3 to 5 years to develop. I want a reason to be excited for them even if it is with an eye to the future.you and I remember Jim Rice and Freddie Lynn being dominant stars as rookies whole we had Cecil Cooper taking a couple of seasons to develop as a premier hitter and the same for Dewey. That all came after a big tall rock of a man called Pudge hit the scene as a star catcher in 1972. Dick O'Connell built all of that. They were an exciting group of young stars. We haven't seen anything close to that since then. They were so good and exciting that they helped Yaz revive his career. The excitement of the kids rubbed off on him and pushed him even harder than he had been pushing himself.

[Palodios]

Time for a new hitting coach. Chili Davis has done jack shit to help an offense that should be among the best in baseball.

[a700hitter]

Time for a new hitting coach. Chili Davis has done jack shit to help an offense that should be among the best in baseball.

I thought I saw him looking at hitting charts in the dugout last night, but it turned out that it was just some take out food menus.

[Kimmi]

Time to call up Allen Craig!

[wyo-sox]

So I have a theoretical for you guys. You have the option to deal for a middle of the order power hitter or an ace. Let's put this in a bubble and consider salary, length of contract and trade pieces the same. Which trade do you pull off?

Me, probably neither, this team is not one player away from being a good team. I take either a power hitter or ace- which ever is younger and gives me the best chance to build around.

[Spudboy]

Jackie Bradley has speed. Not a base stealer but he is fast. I don't know if it is for the better or worse but I think that he is done in Boston. He has had time to show what he can do and at this point it's obvious to everybody what his strengths and weaknesses are. Time to turn the page. Same goes for Nava. He has been a role player for a number of years but it is time to move on. Give that job to somebody else. A shame about Victorino - lots of talent still but if he can't play, he can't help. Seriously, I think that all of this so called stockpiled talent that we accumulated is just becoming a gross over estimate by everybody. I hope Castillo hits. I would also like to see him catch the ball with both hands now and then. Still not a bad thing. I don't think anybody really knows how to solve this team's problems and I don't think anyone is really to blame for anything other than the players themselves. One thing that most successful people do realize is that if you continuously do the same thing over and over and over and over and it doesn't work then you are stupid. No one could have predicted what has happened to this team. No one here, can say I told you so. They are just going to have to work through a tough time. We have seen worse. I'm still waiting for that "great young player" to emerge. I'm not sure we really have one. It would be nice if we just had something to get excited about. I'm not talking about the guy who needs 3 to 5 years to develop. I want a reason to be excited for them even if it is with an eye to the future.

Excellent post.

But I wish to point out that JBJ had only 13 AB during his latest Boston cup of Joe. He faced Dickey , The King, And Gray.

I am not making excuses for him. But that's some heavy artillery.

I think Jacko is correct. JBJ has not been given a complete chance THIS SEASON.

[Spudboy]

Time to call up Allen Craig!

"Shirley you must be joking?"

[cp176]

Excellent post.

But I wish to point out that JBJ had only 13 AB during his latest Boston cup of Joe. He faced Dickey , The King, And Gray.

I am not making excuses for him. But that's some heavy artillery.

I think Jacko is correct. JBJ has not been given a complete chance THIS SEASON.

I am a big fan of JBJ's. I agree with you really. I just don't see it happening in Boston. Everybody seems to want to think that this team can be in contention. With that thinking, he isn't going to get the reps he needs. If they stuck him out there and just left him alone, he might make it. In all honesty, I think that he might be ultimately as good as what they have out there now. i like him. It really surprises me that he hasn't come along. I bet he gets a chance someday and surprises all of the doubters.

[cp176]

you and I remember Jim Rice and Freddie Lynn being dominant stars as rookies whole we had Cecil Cooper taking a couple of seasons to develop as a premier hitter and the same for Dewey. That all came after a big tall rock of a man called Pudge hit the scene as a star catcher in 1972. Dick O'Connell built all of that. They were an exciting group of young stars. We haven't seen anything close to that since then. They were so good and exciting that they helped Yaz revive his career. The excitement of the kids rubbed off on him and pushed him even harder than he had been pushing himself.


I know you remember when Clemens came along. Finally we could see that we had a real pitcher for the future. i remember 66 as well. As a kid, I couldn't wait to see Tony C. , Mike Andrews, Reggie Smith, and George Scott in 67. Future stars. I'm not sure that anybody's future was brighter than Conigliaro's. He had it all. i just want one that we can say that is a no brainer. i get it that for most, it takes a little time. I've just been spoiled I guess. What do think - is one too much to ask for? Just one and I don't care if he pitches or plays the field.

[Behindenemylines]

Farrell shacking up the lineup tonight. I know you are not going to win too many games when your cleanup hitter has zero RBIs in the month of May. As bad as things are they are only 4and a half games back of a Rays who everyone knows are not going to distance themselves from the pack. The AL East division winner may not win 90 games.

[jacksonianmarch]

Have the Yankees and Red Sox ever fired their managers and GMs in the same season? Cause it might happen

[Behindenemylines]

Have the Yankees and Red Sox ever fired their managers and GMs in the same season? Cause it might happen

I know Farrell is on thin ice. The team is not playing good baseball.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm reading the Farrell rumblings as well. Since catching lightning in a bottle, he has really not done the best job. Funny thing is, Girardi hasn't had any rumblings around him. I get that it's early, but this dumpster fire of a ten game stretch would make any manager check the temp of his seat

[bostopz]

Farrell on thin ice after winning it all in 2013?

I don't believe it.

I think it is just internet chatter.

[Kimmi]

Farrell on thin ice after winning it all in 2013?

I don't believe it.

I think it is just internet chatter.

My neighbor is a Reds fan. He said that he would give anything to have had the same success that the Sox have had since 2000. His feeling about the 2 last place finishes in 2012 and 2014 is 'who the heck cares?' when you have WS Championship in between, not to mention 2 other championships in recent memory. I would guess that most fans of other teams would feel the same way.

Red Sox fans have had it good since this ownership group took over. Really good.

[sk7326]

My neighbor is a Reds fan. He said that he would give anything to have had the same success that the Sox have had since 2000. His feeling about the 2 last place finishes in 2012 and 2014 is 'who the heck cares?' when you have WS Championship in between, not to mention 2 other championships in recent memory. I would guess that most fans of other teams would feel the same way.

Red Sox fans have had it good since this ownership group took over. Really good.

It is fun to see how quickly we turned to entitled.

[Spudboy]

Entitled my ass. The Sox I have been following have won 3 WS 49 years.

I just want to see good baseball.

In this marked it is put up or shut up. Because we have invested way more than most fans.

It must be fun labeling others with generalizations when one is so perfect.

[User Name?]

Most Red Sox fans are entitled whether you've been watching for 50 years, or five. It is what it is.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox fans are entitled, no doubt. But they're not quite as spoiled these days as they were during the golden Epstein-Francona years, when the team was expected to post 95 wins every year and generally did.

[mvp 78]

Most Red Sox fans are entitled whether you've been watching for 50 years, or five. It is what it is.

In order of entitlement: Pats, Sox, C's then Bruins.

Pats fans are the absolute worst.

[User Name?]

In order of entitlement: Pats, Sox, C's then Bruins.

Pats fans are the absolute worst.

I agree, but Sox fans are, for the most part, absolutely terrible as well. Specially the "transplants" who go out of their way to be assholes because they have to overcompensate in order to "prove" their loyalty to the team and not be labeled pink hats. Why other people's perception of whether or not you are a "True" fan is important is beyond me.

[a700hitter]

Yes. I feel entitled to go into my pocket to shell out $125 for a couple of decent seats to see a game, $160 if you have a couple of beers and hot dogs. So selfish.:rolleyes:

[sk7326]

The prices are exorbitant - and certainly that is why I argue vehemently when someone says we should throw away a given season the way a team like the Marlins would. The fans are asked a lot - the team has to give the consumers something for that.

At the same time, not every year without a title is a failure - and not every failure is a reason to rip it to the studs. And 2015 is not even a failure yet - it is a little below a reasonable expectation.

Pink hats are great. The more the merrier - although it is hard not be jealous of someone whose disappointment in the franchise only goes back to 2011.

[Kimmi]

Entitled my ass. The Sox I have been following have won 3 WS 49 years.

I just want to see good baseball.

In this marked it is put up or shut up. Because we have invested way more than most fans.

It must be fun labeling others with generalizations when one is so perfect.

Many Sox fans do come across as having a sense of entitlement Spud. I'm not talking about you. You are just voicing your frustration with this team, which is understandable.

Our current ownership has always been willing to spend, and they have done so every year. They aren't cheap. They have put a product on the field every year that at least on paper, should contend. If the Sox are still in the hunt at the trade deadline, they will make moves to try to improve the team. That's really all you can expect them to do.

Sometimes it will work out, sometimes it won't. When it doesn't work out, there's nothing wrong with being upset or frustrated. I am as frustrated with this team as anyone else here. That's what fans do. OTOH, demanding that the FO do something about it, or demanding that Farrell or Cherington be fired, (as if fans have any power to demand such things) comes across as entitlement. Expecting the FO to sign a big name free agent, no matter what the cost, comes across as entitlement. Complaining that the FO is cheap when they have a payroll in excess of the luxury tax limit comes across as entitlement. It's the very thing that we disliked so much about Yankees fans.

Maybe it's because we didn't have forums and all the instant access to everything on the internet then, but I don't remember Sox fans being like this prior to 2004. Sure, we wanted to win and we got frustrated when we didn't, but it wasn't the feeling that we were "entitled" to better, like it is now.

[Kimmi]

Yes. I feel entitled to go into my pocket to shell out $125 for a couple of decent seats to see a game, $160 if you have a couple of beers and hot dogs. So selfish.:rolleyes:

If you don't like the product, don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

[a700hitter]

I have some family in Florida. My niece was a Marlins season ticket holder for a number of years. It's not like their fans are tolerant of losing in contrast to the "entitled" Red Sox fans. In the Marlins comparatively short history, they have won two championships. And guess what, in years that they stink (which is most years) their fans say so. And because their fanbase sucks balls, they completely abandon the team. If they are not winning, their fans don't go to the games and they stop following the team.

So, who are the "entitled" fans-- the so-called "fans" in these half-assed small markets that don't even go to games when they can get 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs and 4 drinks for $40? The Red Sox fans fill that old relic Fenway game after game for huge bucks, and when they can't get there, they loyally follow them every game on TV, radio, gamecast or by other means. Entitled? Loyal is a better description. Unfortunately, along with having a large loyal and knowledgeable fanbase comes the fact there are millions of fans can discern good baseball from bad baseball, good players from bad players etc. Even the best teams have faults and weaknesses. The weaknesses will always be what is debated. No one needs to debate the strengths. There probably aren't a lot of interesting threads from Angels fans about Mike Trout. First post: "He's great" No other posts. Close the thread.

[a700hitter]

If you don't like the product, don't buy it. It's as simple as that.That would be the definition of a fair weather fan. Do you think that a baseball team has a greater appreciation for fans who stop going to games when they are having a bad year or the fans that stick with them through the tough times?

[a700hitter]

Complaining that the FO is cheap when they have a payroll in excess of the luxury tax limit comes across as entitlement. It's the very thing that we disliked so much about Yankees fans.


Most fans realize that the Red Sox have had the highest payrolls in baseball for many years. The complaint isn't that they are cheap. The complaint is that they spend so much and finish last behind teams that have one-third of our payroll. If Ben manages to finish last a third time in four years, he really needs to be fired taking into consideration how much has been spent on payroll.

[Bellhorn04]

Most fans realize that the Red Sox have had the highest payrolls in baseball for many years. The complaint isn't that they are cheap. The complaint is that they spend so much and finish last behind teams that have one-third of our payroll. If Ben manages to finish last a third time in four years, he really needs to be fired taking into consideration how much has been spent on payroll.

The only thing I would argue is that Ben should get a total pass for 2012. He took over a team that needed to be blown up and he was given no money for moves. Then Lucchino hired Valentine.

Cherington's reign as GM began in 2013 IMO. Finishing last two years in a row would be pretty bad with this level of payroll.

[a700hitter]

The offense needs to take more cross country plane trips based on the results for Napoli.

[Spudboy]

The offense needs to take more cross country plane trips based on the results for Napoli.

I find is curious that it took Pedroia to find an aberration or whatever in Napoli's hand position. Does the hitting coach view the same video? Is it not his resposibility to do so and to recognize changes that may be problematic?

I'm not blaming anyone here. But I am curious how only Pedroia noticed the "firing position" problem.

[sk7326]

For all the stats I will noodle over and for all the analysis of Napoli ... sometimes, you just need to see the ball go over the fence

[cp176]

For all the stats I will noodle over and for all the analysis of Napoli ... sometimes, you just need to see the ball go over the fence

I got that. Good post. Pedroia is auditioning for his next career. Great game for Miley- great game for the Sox.

[sk7326]

I find is curious that it took Pedroia to find an aberration or whatever in Napoli's hand position. Does the hitting coach view the same video? Is it not his resposibility to do so and to recognize changes that may be problematic?

I'm not blaming anyone here. But I am curious how only Pedroia noticed the "firing position" problem.

It may or may not be - of course Davis is learning the guys individual styles. But I am also not sure how much Pedroia's advice was that profound. It could be a placebo effect too - frankly what happened to Napoli this week to me is right there with what I think about the offense generally. Napoli just needed something good to happen - and this week sure qualified.

I just get this feeling that the Red Sox just need to find one of those weeks (and the Sox have scored 19 runs over the weekend - which is a start) where they just get off the schneid and then it's off to the races. There is not enough systemically wrong (from eye test of hitters and the numbers) to think that the lineup can't be fixed by just having a few balls not find fielders.

[Northern Star]

I find is curious that it took Pedroia to find an aberration or whatever in Napoli's hand position. Does the hitting coach view the same video? Is it not his resposibility to do so and to recognize changes that may be problematic?

I'm not blaming anyone here. But I am curious how only Pedroia noticed the "firing position" problem.

Sure sounds to me like you're calling him out for not doing his job.

[Northern Star]

If you don't like the product, don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

You'd be surprised how many baseball fans disagree with this philosophy. In their eyes to call yourself a fan, you must pledge undying loyalty, and go to as many games as possible, and buy merchandise etc, regardless of the quality of the onfield product or the motives of ownership. If your franchise is being run for profit with low payroll and no commitment to winning, or sound baseball moves (like drafting well) and they lose a ton of games in the process and don't care to fix the status quo, why would you continue to line their pockets? It's counterintuitive. In any other business repeated lousy service causes you to go elsewhere, at the very least to cease patronage until things improved. Never understood why some think this shouldn't apply to team sports.

[Northern Star]

For all the stats I will noodle over and for all the analysis of Napoli ... sometimes, you just need to see the ball go over the fence

or maybe Jobu got a refill.

[Kimmi]

Most fans realize that the Red Sox have had the highest payrolls in baseball for many years. The complaint isn't that they are cheap. The complaint is that they spend so much and finish last behind teams that have one-third of our payroll. If Ben manages to finish last a third time in four years, he really needs to be fired taking into consideration how much has been spent on payroll.

I've also heard complaints that they are cheap because they aren't willing to spend above their self-imposed limit on a player like Lester, for instance.

As far as Ben being fired if the team finishes last again, he very well could be, but I don't necessarily think he deserves to be. I have a hard time holding Ben accountable for all the players underperforming. He can't control what happens on the field. IMO, he did his job this offseason.

[Northern Star]

I've also heard complaints that they are cheap because they aren't willing to spend above their self-imposed limit on a player like Lester, for instance.

As far as Ben being fired if the team finishes last again, he very well could be, but I don't necessarily think he deserves to be. I have a hard time holding Ben accountable for all the players underperforming. He can't control what happens on the field. IMO, he did his job this offseason.

Oh ye of unshakeable faith.

[Kimmi]

You'd be surprised how many baseball fans disagree with this philosophy. In their eyes to call yourself a fan, you must pledge undying loyalty, and go to as many games as possible, and buy merchandise etc, regardless of the quality of the onfield product or the motives of ownership. If your franchise is being run for profit with low payroll and no commitment to winning, or sound baseball moves (like drafting well) and they lose a ton of games in the process and don't care to fix the status quo, why would you continue to line their pockets? It's counterintuitive. In any other business repeated lousy service causes you to go elsewhere, at the very least to cease patronage until things improved. Never understood why some think this shouldn't apply to team sports.

Well, I personally would not stop watching the Sox, nor going to their games, nor buying their merchandise, so I understand why fans continue to do so. We can't help it. As I mentioned in one of the game threads, I get so frustrated with this team sometimes that I vow to quit baseball many times throughout the season. But there I am again, watching the next night. :)

That said, fans come in all varieties. Some are negative, some are positive. Some will stop watching games if the team is not doing well, some will watch no matter what. Some will give up hope if the team is 5 back in July, some will still have hope if the team is 5 back with 5 games to play. Some are "eye test" fans, some are stat geeks.

While I disagree with some others' views, and often don't understand the negative views, I don't question the fandom of anyone on this site. I don't think you have to pledge your undying loyalty to prove that you're a fan.

[Northern Star]

Well, I personally would not stop watching the Sox, nor going to their games, nor buying their merchandise, so I understand why fans continue to do so. We can't help it. As I mentioned in one of the game threads, I get so frustrated with this team sometimes that I vow to quit baseball many times throughout the season. But there I am again, watching the next night. :)

That said, fans come in all varieties. Some are negative, some are positive. Some will stop watching games if the team is not doing well, some will watch no matter what. Some will give up hope if the team is 5 back in July, some will still have hope if the team is 5 back with 5 games to play. Some are "eye test" fans, some are stat geeks.

While I disagree with some others' views, and often don't understand the negative views, I don't question the fandom of anyone on this site. I don't think you have to pledge your undying loyalty to prove that you're a fan.

Red Sox are not the model I'm talking about here. The Pirates of a few years back fits better, where they were pocketing revenue sharing and drafting "signable" duds with their top draft picks, on their way to a nice round 20 year losing streak.

[Kimmi]

Red Sox are not the model I'm talking about here. The Pirates of a few years back fits better, where they were pocketing revenue sharing and drafting "signable" duds with their top draft picks, on their way to a nice round 20 year losing streak.

Well, that makes sense. I just think it's hard to say I'm not going to be a fan anymore. I guess some people can do it, but I can understand why people would continue to support the team no matter how bad it got.

[Northern Star]

but I can understand why people would continue to support the team no matter how bad it got.

I'm not saying don't be a fan, you always root for the uniform above all else, but I can't see actively giving money in exchange for a purposely bad product.

[Kimmi]

Back to the topic of switch hitting, it's interesting to note that Panda batted left handed today against a left handed pitcher, and got a hit. My understanding is that he batted left handed today because he is still experiencing soreness in his left leg, but since he experienced success (albeit in only one at bat), he might decide to continue doing so.

[Kimmi]

I'm not saying don't be a fan, you always root for the uniform above all else, but I can't see actively giving money in exchange for a purposely bad product.

And I can understand that line of thinking too. :)

[sk7326]

Back to the topic of switch hitting, it's interesting to note that Panda batted left handed today against a left handed pitcher, and got a hit. My understanding is that he batted left handed today because he is still experiencing soreness in his left leg, but since he experienced success (albeit in only one at bat), he might decide to continue doing so.

I am certainly in favor of switch hitting if possible on principle. But I do wonder if players (and teams) were more sophisticated with when to choose which batting stance. Like if you faced Justin Masterson the decision to bat left handed is easy. But if you have 1999 Pedro Martinez in front of you (not that you have a hell of a lot of chance of hitting him anyway) with that wipeout change up, it might make sense to stay right handed to take that weapon away (or at least a heartfelt attempt). Similarly, maybe it is worth staying lefty on lefty if that is your stronger side and the lefty doesn't actually provide that classic deception or that sweeping breaking pitch.

[Spitball]

Many Sox fans do come across as having a sense of entitlement Spud. I'm not talking about you. You are just voicing your frustration with this team, which is understandable.

Our current ownership has always been willing to spend, and they have done so every year. They aren't cheap. They have put a product on the field every year that at least on paper, should contend. If the Sox are still in the hunt at the trade deadline, they will make moves to try to improve the team. That's really all you can expect them to do.

Sometimes it will work out, sometimes it won't. When it doesn't work out, there's nothing wrong with being upset or frustrated. I am as frustrated with this team as anyone else here. That's what fans do. OTOH, demanding that the FO do something about it, or demanding that Farrell or Cherington be fired, (as if fans have any power to demand such things) comes across as entitlement. Expecting the FO to sign a big name free agent, no matter what the cost, comes across as entitlement. Complaining that the FO is cheap when they have a payroll in excess of the luxury tax limit comes across as entitlement. It's the very thing that we disliked so much about Yankees fans.

Maybe it's because we didn't have forums and all the instant access to everything on the internet then, but I don't remember Sox fans being like this prior to 2004. Sure, we wanted to win and we got frustrated when we didn't, but it wasn't the feeling that we were "entitled" to better, like it is now.

Kimmi, once again you speak such wisdom. As Red Sox fans, we have become spoiled. We expect the front office to throw money at the team's problems. The money isn't our money, the numbers are unfathomable, but we believe Red Sox money should fix all problems. We hate the Yankees for that attitude, but we still expect the Sox to spend their problems away.

But times are a changing, and the Red Sox Nation needs to recognize the changes. The money escalates every year even if the talent doesn't. There are foolish big dollar/long term contracts signed every winter and most are handicapping their teams in the long run.

The money always exceeds the talent, and the years are almost always beyond the logical progression of human production. Smart teams are looking to be successful in different, more intelligent, more strategic ways. I am happy to see the Red Sox move in a smarter direction. I honestly believe the old, big spending philosophy will eventually sink any team not vested in forward and progressive methods.

The Royals, Rays, and Astros are currently leading the three American League divisions. Of the 30 MLB teams, they rank 17th, 28th, and 30th in salaries. Success no longer is a product of big spending but of strategic planning. As a Yankee hater, I like the change.

[BSN07]

Kimmi, once again you speak such wisdom. As Red Sox fans, we have become spoiled. We expect the front office to throw money at the team's problems. The money isn't our money, the numbers are unfathomable, but we believe Red Sox money should fix all problems. We hate the Yankees for that attitude, but we still expect the Sox to spend their problems away.

But times are a changing, and the Red Sox Nation needs to recognize the changes. The money escalates every year even if the talent doesn't. There are foolish big dollar/long term contracts signed every winter and most are handicapping their teams in the long run.

The money always exceeds the talent, and the years are almost always beyond the logical progression of human production. Smart teams are looking to be successful in different, more intelligent, more strategic ways. I am happy to see the Red Sox move in a smarter direction. I honestly believe the old, big spending philosophy will eventually sink any team not vested in forward and progressive methods.

The Royals, Rays, and Astros are currently leading the three American League divisions. Of the 30 MLB teams, they rank 17th, 28th, and 30th in salaries. Success no longer is a product of big spending but of strategic planning. As a Yankee hater, I like the change.

We got some truth and knowledge being given way here people :D

[Kimmi]

I am certainly in favor of switch hitting if possible on principle. But I do wonder if players (and teams) were more sophisticated with when to choose which batting stance. Like if you faced Justin Masterson the decision to bat left handed is easy. But if you have 1999 Pedro Martinez in front of you (not that you have a hell of a lot of chance of hitting him anyway) with that wipeout change up, it might make sense to stay right handed to take that weapon away (or at least a heartfelt attempt). Similarly, maybe it is worth staying lefty on lefty if that is your stronger side and the lefty doesn't actually provide that classic deception or that sweeping breaking pitch.

That certainly makes sense SK. Switch hitters do tend to have better splits batting from their weak side than lefties or righties do batting against the same handed pitcher, but if a particular pitcher has bad splits against LH hitters, it would make sense to bat LH against him rather than switching to the weak side. I'm guessing, however, that for a switch hitter who is used to seeing the ball come out of a pitcher's hand a certain way, that is still easier said than done.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, once again you speak such wisdom. As Red Sox fans, we have become spoiled. We expect the front office to throw money at the team's problems. The money isn't our money, the numbers are unfathomable, but we believe Red Sox money should fix all problems. We hate the Yankees for that attitude, but we still expect the Sox to spend their problems away.

But times are a changing, and the Red Sox Nation needs to recognize the changes. The money escalates every year even if the talent doesn't. There are foolish big dollar/long term contracts signed every winter and most are handicapping their teams in the long run.

The money always exceeds the talent, and the years are almost always beyond the logical progression of human production. Smart teams are looking to be successful in different, more intelligent, more strategic ways. I am happy to see the Red Sox move in a smarter direction. I honestly believe the old, big spending philosophy will eventually sink any team not vested in forward and progressive methods.

The Royals, Rays, and Astros are currently leading the three American League divisions. Of the 30 MLB teams, they rank 17th, 28th, and 30th in salaries. Success no longer is a product of big spending but of strategic planning. As a Yankee hater, I like the change.

Thanks Spitball. Solid post. I have never been a fan of big contracts. I like the change too.

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks Spitball. Solid post. I have never been a fan of big contracts. I like the change too.

I'm not sure any of us are actually fans of big contracts. But I think most of us do expect the Red Sox to have a big payroll because they have big revenue.

[sk7326]

Kimmi, once again you speak such wisdom. As Red Sox fans, we have become spoiled. We expect the front office to throw money at the team's problems. The money isn't our money, the numbers are unfathomable, but we believe Red Sox money should fix all problems. We hate the Yankees for that attitude, but we still expect the Sox to spend their problems away.

But times are a changing, and the Red Sox Nation needs to recognize the changes. The money escalates every year even if the talent doesn't. There are foolish big dollar/long term contracts signed every winter and most are handicapping their teams in the long run.

The money always exceeds the talent, and the years are almost always beyond the logical progression of human production. Smart teams are looking to be successful in different, more intelligent, more strategic ways. I am happy to see the Red Sox move in a smarter direction. I honestly believe the old, big spending philosophy will eventually sink any team not vested in forward and progressive methods.

The Royals, Rays, and Astros are currently leading the three American League divisions. Of the 30 MLB teams, they rank 17th, 28th, and 30th in salaries. Success no longer is a product of big spending but of strategic planning. As a Yankee hater, I like the change.

Years is more important than money (and position players get more consideration here). The Sox should be big spenders - they charge the most of any team, and you want to see it in the organization. Smart vs $$$ is a false choice.

[a700hitter]

Smart vs $$$ is a false choice.Yep. it is.

[Kimmi]

I'm not sure any of us are actually fans of big contracts. But I think most of us do expect the Red Sox to have a big payroll because they have big revenue.

And they do have a big payroll. They had no problem going over the luxury tax limit this season. They are going to spend money. They are just not typically going to spend it on the superstars who command those big contracts. They are going to go with locking up their younger players as they did with Miley and Porcello, and go with contracts that are for fewer years at more AAV.

[Kimmi]

Smart vs $$$ is a false choice.

I don't think it's a smart vs $$$ choice, but rather a smart $$$ versus stupid $$$ choice. I think too many fans want to see the Sox sign the top free agents, regardless of the amount and length of the contract. The Carl Crawford type contracts are gone. The Justin Masterson type contracts are in.

And the bottom line is still that the strategic planning starts with the farm system and the cost-controlled players.

[iortiz]

I don't think it's a smart vs $$$ choice, but rather a smart $$$ versus stupid $$$ choice. I think too many fans want to see the Sox sign the top free agents, regardless of the amount and length of the contract. The Carl Crawford type contracts are gone. The Justin Masterson type contracts are in.

And the bottom line is still that the strategic planning starts with the farm system and the cost-controlled players.

Shields, Lester, and keeping Lackey wouldn't have hurt this team, financially. Rounding them with young talent from the farm/trades would have been my approach.

[a700hitter]

I don't think it's a smart vs $$$ choice, but rather a smart $$$ versus stupid $$$ choice. I think too many fans want to see the Sox sign the top free agents, regardless of the amount and length of the contract. The Carl Crawford type contracts are gone. The Justin Masterson type contracts are in.

And the bottom line is still that the strategic planning starts with the farm system and the cost-controlled players.Masterson at 1 year $9 million was stupid $ compared to Volquez for 2 years/ $20 million.

Edit: or Jason Hamel at 2 years/ $20 million or A.J. Burnett 1 year/ $8.75 million.

[iortiz]

Masterson at 1 year $9 million was stupid $ compared to Volquez for 2 years/ $20 million.

... and what about Porcello? Does anybody still think that he worth 80 M?

[a700hitter]

... and what about Porcello? Does anybody still think that he worth 80 M?Don't you worry. Ben the errand boy knows what he is doing. ;)

[iortiz]

Don't you worry. Ben the errand boy knows what he is doing. ;)

Do not take me wrong, I like Porcello at the right role (No. 3-4) and price, but trying to put him at the No. 1 slot which he has never been/performed (No. 1) and at that price (80 M) just because he is young, is plain stupid. This is just an example and a point of start of why I think this team was horrible assembled.

[User Name?]

Shields, Lester, and keeping Lackey wouldn't have hurt this team, financially. Rounding them with young talent from the farm/trades would have been my approach.

How are you this bad at common sense? Everything is not about "now". Keeping Lackey would have clearly been smart in hindsight, but both Shields and Lester will be albatrosses by the end of their long, expensive contracts, as it almost always happens.

[User Name?]

Masterson at 1 year $9 million was stupid $ compared to Volquez for 2 years/ $20 million.

Edit: or Jason Hamel at 2 years/ $20 million or A.J. Burnett 1 year/ $8.75 million.

You are such a hypocrite. Not only would any of those guys be probably getting creamed t Fenway (especially Burnett) but you would have been whining about "dumpster diving" the second any of those guys put ink to paper for this team.

[iortiz]

How are you this bad at common sense? Everything is not about "now". Keeping Lackey would have clearly been smart in hindsight, but both Shields and Lester will be albatrosses by the end of their long, expensive contracts, as it almost always happens.

Talking about hypocrites, didn't you want Lester and Shields as well?.

Also, just as Papelbon those contracts will be fine, it is not like betting in a guy like Lee as you suggested.

[iortiz]

You are such a hypocrite. Not only would any of those guys be probably getting creamed t Fenway (especially Burnett) but you would have been whining about "dumpster diving" the second any of those guys put ink to paper for this team.
Creamed like the current staff, doubt it.

Also, whining is your speciality, not his.

[a700hitter]

Dumpster Diving is the signing of pitchers who have been injured or who have had bad off seasons. Volquez and Hamels were not Dumpster Dives. I'm not sure why people are still operating under the incorrect perception that the AL East is such a tough division on pitchers. Newsflash, the ALE stinks. All of those pitchers would have done fine in the ALE. Yes, Burnett would have fit the definition of a Dumpster Dive, but as it turns out, he would have been a much better choice than the Dumpster Dive of Masterson.

[a700hitter]

The notion of throwing around the term "hypocrite" with regard to fans discussing the performance of a sports team is in the realm of idiocy, which is why I have him on ignore. LOL!!

[sk7326]

Masterson at 1 year $9 million was stupid $ compared to Volquez for 2 years/ $20 million.

Edit: or Jason Hamel at 2 years/ $20 million or A.J. Burnett 1 year/ $8.75 million.

Some externalities there. Burnett was only giving that deal to Pittsburgh. Hammel was awful when he left the friendly confines of Oakland. Volquez went to a good pitching environment, and has been bad when he has not been in one.

Masterson was a risk - but a pretty small one.

Re-signing Lester - different kettle of fish.

Shields has been a beneficiary of extremely good pitching environments his whole career.

[a700hitter]

Some externalities there. Burnett was only giving that deal to Pittsburgh. Hammel was awful when he left the friendly confines of Oakland. Volquez went to a good pitching environment, and has been bad when he has not been in one.

Masterson was a risk - but a pretty small one.

Re-signing Lester - different kettle of fish.

Shields has been a beneficiary of extremely good pitching environments his whole career.you are minimalizing the mistake of Masterson. Forget about the money. That is not the issue. They signs and gave a rotation spot to a guy who had experienced a big loss of velocity without any reason to think that he had regained the lost velocity. They didn't do their homework. That was the big mistake.

[Palodios]

How are you this bad at common sense? Everything is not about "now". Keeping Lackey would have clearly been smart in hindsight, but both Shields and Lester will be albatrosses by the end of their long, expensive contracts, as it almost always happens.

Keeping Lackey wasn't just bad in hindsight... the Red Sox traded him for a pair of underperforming players that were projects. A year and a half of a #2 starter at league minimum should have pulled in a top prospect, not junk. If the Red Sox were trading for someone of his quality, the other team would be asking for Mookie, Swihart or Xander.

[cp176]

Keeping Lackey wasn't just bad in hindsight... the Red Sox traded him for a pair of underperforming players that were projects. A year and a half of a #2 starter at league minimum should have pulled in a top prospect, not junk. If the Red Sox were trading for someone of his quality, the other team would be asking for Mookie, Swihart or Xander.

There must have been more to the Lackey story than we were told. If he didn't want to be in Boston, then they had to take what they could get.

[a700hitter]

Keeping Lackey wasn't just bad in hindsight... the Red Sox traded him for a pair of underperforming players that were projects. A year and a half of a #2 starter at league minimum should have pulled in a top prospect, not junk. If the Red Sox were trading for someone of his quality, the other team would be asking for Mookie, Swihart or Xander.Excellent points. Lackey was not a salary dump, nor was he a short term rental. He was our number 2 pitcher with big time post season experience who was performing well. He was scheduled to make only the league minimum in 2015. A year and a half of apitcher of his quality at league minimum should have netted a top level prospect and not a wrecked OFer hitting at the Mendoza line with a multi year contract. Kelly was a known project. Many shook their heads in disbelief at the time not just in hindsight. I was hoping that Ben knew something about Craig and Kelly that we did not know. Clearly that was not the case.

[a700hitter]

There must have been more to the Lackey story than we were told. If he didn't want to be in Boston, then they had to take what they could get.

For $500k, it was worth it to call his bluff and risk getting nothing, which is essentiallwhat we got for him. He may not have wanted to be here, but they should have done a better job of getting other teams bidding against each other for his services. Just because he didn't want to be here didn't mean that he wasn't a very valuable commodity.

[cp176]

For $500k, it was worth it to call his bluff and risk getting nothing, which is essentiallwhat we got for him. He may not have wanted to be here, but they should have done a better job of getting other teams bidding against each other for his services. Just because he didn't want to be here didn't mean that he wasn't a very valuable commodity.

I agree with you. It seemed like a strange move at the time for sure. I kept thinking that there must have been more to the story at the time.

[Spudboy]

There must have been more to the Lackey story than we were told. If he didn't want to be in Boston, then they had to take what they could get.

There are no substantiated reports of his discontent and desire to play somewhere else. From what I have read, he only suggested that he may retire as a negotiation ploy with the Sox. He readily said that he would play for the minimum in St. Louis.

I think the Sox either did not like / want him or they just fucking blew it with him. The idea of trading away all of your pitching including #2 and #1 still makes no sense to me even if the team is confronted with negotiating into a pitcher's "decline" years.

Someone with some savvy could have negotiated with both Lester and Lackey. My bet is at least one of them would still be here.

I think the Sox just fucked up.

[a700hitter]

I agree with you. It seemed like a strange move at the time for sure. I kept thinking that there must have been more to the story at the time.We definitely all thought it was odd. When SBF said before the trade that he had heard Lackey wanted out of town, he was mocked. In the end, it looks like there had to be something to the rumor considering what we got in return. Ben, still should have done better, regardless of Lackey's discontent. I think what we are starting to see is that BEn is truly out of his depth in running this organization and producing a consistent winning product on the field.

[sk7326]

you are minimalizing the mistake of Masterson. Forget about the money. That is not the issue. They signs and gave a rotation spot to a guy who had experienced a big loss of velocity without any reason to think that he had regained the lost velocity. They didn't do their homework. That was the big mistake.

They took a calculated risk which didn't work on a guy who has set the franchise back exactly 7 starts. So now move on to something else. 21-24 is not where anyone'd like to be.

[a700hitter]

Someone with some savvy could have negotiated with both Lester and Lackey. My bet is at least one of them would still be here.

I think the Sox just fucked up.Key word ^ savy.

[a700hitter]

They took a calculated risk which didn't work on a guy who has set the franchise back exactly 7 starts. So now move on to something else. 21-24 is not where anyone'd like to be.They didn't need to take a calculated risk. They had a known cheap commodity. They shouldn't have taken risks and payroll in return. They should have received a solid prospect. There's no sugar-coating this one.

[User Name?]

They took a calculated risk which didn't work on a guy who has set the franchise back exactly 7 starts. So now move on to something else. 21-24 is not where anyone'd like to be.

On point.

[iortiz]

Key word ^ savy.

Yup, it's not a bad luck thing. It's not about optimism or pesimism either. The talent at pitching is not there. It's pretty simple actually. Our FO took a very serious risk with this staff and furthermore, they recently threw a lot of money to a mediocre arm just because he is young or whatever the assessment is behind. Honestly, I do not see any team in a rush trying to throw 80 M to Porcello these days.

Let's see how this ends up, but if we do not make the playoffs again, IMO we need to change the philosophy/strategy and the men behind it for once and for all.

[Bellhorn04]

They took a calculated risk which didn't work on a guy who has set the franchise back exactly 7 starts. So now move on to something else. 21-24 is not where anyone'd like to be.

Benny took quite a few calculated risks with this rotation.

[Kimmi]

Keeping Lackey wasn't just bad in hindsight... the Red Sox traded him for a pair of underperforming players that were projects. A year and a half of a #2 starter at league minimum should have pulled in a top prospect, not junk. If the Red Sox were trading for someone of his quality, the other team would be asking for Mookie, Swihart or Xander.

I have to disagree with the idea that trading Lackey for Kelly and Craig was bad at the time that it happened. It looks bad as of this moment, but it wasn't a bad trade going in, and it might end up not being a bad trade in the end.

1. Ben was looking for major league ready players, not prospects. With both the Lester and Lackey trades, he wanted players that could help the team contend this year.

2. Too many people are looking at only the short term (this year) in this deal. Kelly is a cost-controlled player until 2018 and Craig is under contract until 2017, with an option for 2018. The deal was made not only with 2015 in mind, but also for the longer term.

3. Kelly was a 26 year old pitcher who can hit 97 mph. He has some upside, and he is cheap. He pitched fairly well with the Cardinals.

4. At the time of the trade, our outfield was a mess. We did not have Castillo. Victorino's health is always a concern. Betts had all of 10 games under his belt and wasn't hitting that well in that small sample. JBJ couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag. Sizemore was gone. Hanley wasn't signed yet. Holt was cooling off. The Sox needed some outfield depth. Craig was not just an excessive piece. And the fact that he can play 1B didn't hurt.

5. Before his injury, Craig was a very good hitter. He is not that old. It is not unrealistic to think that if he got healthy, he could rebound to close to what he was in 2012 or 2013. If he did rebound, his contract would be considered cheap.

6. The Sox have taken fliers on players like Craig before. Victorino, who played very well in 2013. Stephen Drew. Beltre. They worked out.

Yes, the trade looks bad right now, but the rationale in making the trade at the time is very sound.

[SoxnCycles]

I have to disagree with the idea that trading Lackey for Kelly and Craig was bad at the time that it happened. It looks bad as of this moment, but it wasn't a bad trade going in, and it might end up not being a bad trade in the end.

1. Ben was looking for major league ready players, not prospects. With both the Lester and Lackey trades, he wanted players that could help the team contend this year.

2. Too many people are looking at only the short term (this year) in this deal. Kelly is a cost-controlled player until 2018 and Craig is under contract until 2017, with an option for 2018. The deal was made not only with 2015 in mind, but also for the longer term.

3. Kelly was a 26 year old pitcher who can hit 97 mph. He has some upside, and he is cheap. He pitched fairly well with the Cardinals.

4. At the time of the trade, our outfield was a mess. We did not have Castillo. Victorino's health is always a concern. Betts had all of 10 games under his belt and wasn't hitting that well in that small sample. JBJ couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag. Sizemore was gone. Hanley wasn't signed yet. Holt was cooling off. The Sox needed some outfield depth. Craig was not just an excessive piece. And the fact that he can play 1B didn't hurt.

5. Before his injury, Craig was a very good hitter. He is not that old. It is not unrealistic to think that if he got healthy, he could rebound to close to what he was in 2012 or 2013. If he did rebound, his contract would be considered cheap.

6. The Sox have taken fliers on players like Craig before. Victorino, who played very well in 2013. Stephen Drew. Beltre. They worked out.

Yes, the trade looks bad right now, but the rationale in making the trade at the time is very sound.

"Short term" is an understatement.
Some can't see past yesterday's game.

[SoxnCycles]

And judging by the tendency of fans to think long term, I'm sure there wasn't a single member that wanted Lackey gone after 2011.

Too damned funny....

[jacksonianmarch]

I guess the question is, what was the plan with the rotation? Was he trying to bridge until a better FA period next year? Was he biding time until Owens and Rodriguez are ready? Does he have a trade partner he is waiting for? I know that there were a TON of risks in the rotation, but for a team that invested such capital in offense, what was the plan for the rotation? Masterson is not a long term solution. Buch is basically in his final year. Kelly was a crap shoot. Porcello is a legit big league starter. Miley is probably a #5 in the AL East. I doubt Ben is without a plan and I doubt these 5 are the end game for the rotation for this year.

[SoxnCycles]

I guess the question is, what was the plan with the rotation? Was he trying to bridge until a better FA period next year? Was he biding time until Owens and Rodriguez are ready? Does he have a trade partner he is waiting for? I know that there were a TON of risks in the rotation, but for a team that invested such capital in offense, what was the plan for the rotation? Masterson is not a long term solution. Buch is basically in his final year. Kelly was a crap shoot. Porcello is a legit big league starter. Miley is probably a #5 in the AL East. I doubt Ben is without a plan and I doubt these 5 are the end game for the rotation for this year.

I think they took a gamble with the rotation with the idea of using a AAA arm if need be and making a trade at mid-season, if necessary.
I think they knew it was possible one or two of their pitchers wouldn't pan out.

I don't think they were all that impressed with this year's free agent crop and are keeping their options open for next off-season.
The only locks they have for next year are Miley and Porcello.

[a700hitter]

I have to disagree with the idea that trading Lackey for Kelly and Craig was bad at the time that it happened. It looks bad as of this moment, but it wasn't a bad trade going in, and it might end up not being a bad trade in the end.

1. Ben was looking for major league ready players, not prospects. With both the Lester and Lackey trades, he wanted players that could help the team contend this year.

2. Too many people are looking at only the short term (this year) in this deal. Kelly is a cost-controlled player until 2018 and Craig is under contract until 2017, with an option for 2018. The deal was made not only with 2015 in mind, but also for the longer term.

3. Kelly was a 26 year old pitcher who can hit 97 mph. He has some upside, and he is cheap. He pitched fairly well with the Cardinals.

4. At the time of the trade, our outfield was a mess. We did not have Castillo. Victorino's health is always a concern. Betts had all of 10 games under his belt and wasn't hitting that well in that small sample. JBJ couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag. Sizemore was gone. Hanley wasn't signed yet. Holt was cooling off. The Sox needed some outfield depth. Craig was not just an excessive piece. And the fact that he can play 1B didn't hurt.

5. Before his injury, Craig was a very good hitter. He is not that old. It is not unrealistic to think that if he got healthy, he could rebound to close to what he was in 2012 or 2013. If he did rebound, his contract would be considered cheap.

6. The Sox have taken fliers on players like Craig before. Victorino, who played very well in 2013. Stephen Drew. Beltre. They worked out.

Yes, the trade looks bad right now, but the rationale in making the trade at the time is very sound.

My recollection is that Pal questioned the wisdom of move at the time of the trade. His concerns have been validated.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think their off season plan included the possibility of nabbing a guy like Hamels or the fact that the division looked so weak that they were one acquisition away. That's the thing that fucking burns me royally with NY and I assume burns some of you guys as well. If everyone knew the division was gonna be weak, why didn't one team go out there and just go nuts to the wall and separate themselves. It seems like all 5 teams in the division are colluding to be average. I don't get it

[sk7326]

I think their off season plan included the possibility of nabbing a guy like Hamels or the fact that the division looked so weak that they were one acquisition away. That's the thing that fucking burns me royally with NY and I assume burns some of you guys as well. If everyone knew the division was gonna be weak, why didn't one team go out there and just go nuts to the wall and separate themselves. It seems like all 5 teams in the division are colluding to be average. I don't get it

One thing is that the trade market for pitching was going to be tough - there are two big reasons:

1. Revenue sharing - nobody is in the poorhouse anymore (it won't stop owners from whining). Certainly incumbent Cy Young winners won't be on the auction block in December.

2. The Kansas City Royals - because of the 2nd wild card spot - almost every team HAS to at least act like they can make the playoffs during the time they have to sell season tickets and TV ads.

Now what I am curious about is whether a team will pony up the extra prospect it will take to get the Reds to rent out Cueto early. I'd be tempted.

[Bellhorn04]

I have to disagree with the idea that trading Lackey for Kelly and Craig was bad at the time that it happened. It looks bad as of this moment, but it wasn't a bad trade going in, and it might end up not being a bad trade in the end.

1. Ben was looking for major league ready players, not prospects. With both the Lester and Lackey trades, he wanted players that could help the team contend this year.

2. Too many people are looking at only the short term (this year) in this deal. Kelly is a cost-controlled player until 2018 and Craig is under contract until 2017, with an option for 2018. The deal was made not only with 2015 in mind, but also for the longer term.

I can see that side of the argument, certainly. But there is another side that questions why they wouldn't be looking at the short term when they're spending this much money and going over the luxury tax limit.

[iortiz]

I can see that side of the argument, certainly. But there is another side that questions why they wouldn't be looking at the short term when they're spending this much money and going over the luxury tax limit.

Yup.

They want to win now and almost every year. Thing is that they just do not know how to assemble a team, specially a pitching staff.

[User Name?]

I guess the question is, what was the plan with the rotation? Was he trying to bridge until a better FA period next year? Was he biding time until Owens and Rodriguez are ready? Does he have a trade partner he is waiting for? I know that there were a TON of risks in the rotation, but for a team that invested such capital in offense, what was the plan for the rotation? Masterson is not a long term solution. Buch is basically in his final year. Kelly was a crap shoot. Porcello is a legit big league starter. Miley is probably a #5 in the AL East. I doubt Ben is without a plan and I doubt these 5 are the end game for the rotation for this year.

The hilarious thing is that outside of Kelly's stinker yesterday they've been good-to-lights out for more than two weeks now, but they cannot fucking hit. That makes no sense.

[Palodios]

I have to disagree with the idea that trading Lackey for Kelly and Craig was bad at the time that it happened. It looks bad as of this moment, but it wasn't a bad trade going in, and it might end up not being a bad trade in the end.

1. Ben was looking for major league ready players, not prospects. With both the Lester and Lackey trades, he wanted players that could help the team contend this year.

2. Too many people are looking at only the short term (this year) in this deal. Kelly is a cost-controlled player until 2018 and Craig is under contract until 2017, with an option for 2018. The deal was made not only with 2015 in mind, but also for the longer term.

3. Kelly was a 26 year old pitcher who can hit 97 mph. He has some upside, and he is cheap. He pitched fairly well with the Cardinals.

4. At the time of the trade, our outfield was a mess. We did not have Castillo. Victorino's health is always a concern. Betts had all of 10 games under his belt and wasn't hitting that well in that small sample. JBJ couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag. Sizemore was gone. Hanley wasn't signed yet. Holt was cooling off. The Sox needed some outfield depth. Craig was not just an excessive piece. And the fact that he can play 1B didn't hurt.

5. Before his injury, Craig was a very good hitter. He is not that old. It is not unrealistic to think that if he got healthy, he could rebound to close to what he was in 2012 or 2013. If he did rebound, his contract would be considered cheap.

6. The Sox have taken fliers on players like Craig before. Victorino, who played very well in 2013. Stephen Drew. Beltre. They worked out.

Yes, the trade looks bad right now, but the rationale in making the trade at the time is very sound.

I'm almost always a fan of Ben Cherrington's moves, but the Lackey deal was awful. I was very outspoken about it, and was the one who started the thread here about it.

1) I look at this team's long term future more often than not.

Allen Craig -- at best -- is a .800 OPS first baseman with ugly defense and poor speed. On his career years, he has put up a 2 WAR. Even if he lived up to those expectations, he would have provided only marginal value at the contract cost because lumbering first basemen are cheap. That's IF healthy and effective.

Joe Kelly has one pitch. At best, we were probably looking at a 8th inning guy or mediocre starter unless he developed another. Maybe he'll provide value in the bullpen.

2) I am fine with trading players for elite prospects. I am not fine with trading high value pieces for low ceiling projects.

3) Kelly's success in St Louis came in the bullpen. His starter ERA is in the mid 4s. Most of the scouting reports at the time believed he was a reliever.

4) They had just traded Lester for Cespedes, who only wanted to play LF. Craig doesn't have the speed or armstrength for CF or RF.

6) None of those guys came in trades. Fliers are for free agents.

[Bellhorn04]

The Lackey trade could easily end up costing us 5 games in the standings this year.

I have a suspicion that at some point we'll get a 'leaked' story about why they really had to trade Lackey...

[a700hitter]

This team needs to have some fight, show some resiliency and establish an identity. As soon as they are down in a game, you can turn off the game and leave the ballpark, because they roll over and die. They need a few comeback wins to get some confidence and galvanize the clubhouse. RIght now they have is a loser's demeanor. No life. If they can't get it together soon, Ben will need to do what Theo did in 2004-- shake things up and inject some life into this team.

I love how the ball comes off Hanley's bat, but he is a slug in every other aspect of the game. Manny brought a zanny goofy exuberance to the game. Hanley looks like he needs a double shot of espresso before each game.

[Station 13]

The hitting is downright bad. Only Pedroia and Betts have any quality AB on a nightly basis.

[wyo-sox]

This team needs to have some fight, show some resiliency and establish an identity. As soon as they are down in a game, you can turn off the game and leave the ballpark, because they roll over and die. They need a few comeback wins to get some confidence and galvanize the clubhouse. RIght now they have is a loser's demeanor. No life. If they can't get it together soon, Ben will need to do what Theo did in 2004-- shake things up and inject some life into this team.

I love how the ball comes off Hanley's bat, but he is a slug in every other aspect of the game. Manny brought a zanny goofy exuberance to the game. Hanley looks like he needs a double shot of espresso before each game.

Maybe Hanley needs to DH for a week or so, let Ortiz sit a few games out, see if that wakes up Ortiz's bat, cause I agree... Hanley on defense, specifically the outfield has not helped us.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox offense is predicated on needing Ortiz to be a big bat in the middle. I hadn't actually watched a full sox game in awhile, but I was very surprised at how slow his bat looked. Palfrey was going after him with fastballs and he couldn't seem to catch up to them. And before you correct me with the "double", the LFer fell down on a ball he should have caught. I think the league is finally recognizing that his bat has slowed and they've stopped going after him with off speed stuff.

[Spudboy]

The sox offense is predicated on needing Ortiz to be a big bat in the middle. I hadn't actually watched a full sox game in awhile, but I was very surprised at how slow his bat looked. Palfrey was going after him with fastballs and he couldn't seem to catch up to them. And before you correct me with the "double", the LFer fell down on a ball he should have caught. I think the league is finally recognizing that his bat has slowed and they've stopped going after him with off speed stuff.

Of course this is contrary to how Farrel explains it. When asked if Papi's bat had slowed he said no.

He went on to explain that Ortiz is chasing breaking pitches out of the zone "expanding the zone".

But you are correct in that this lineup is build around Papi's big bat in the middle of the order. Farrel offered that as well.

Several Sox batters are under-performing. It's the perfect storm of suck.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pelfrey was pounding the zone with fastballs and Ortiz couldn't hit them fair. Cockshots down the middle and in his power zone and he was just a tick late

[sk7326]

The bat speed thing would make a bit more sense if the strikeouts have gone up with it, but they largely haven't.

[User Name?]

But the stats back up the claim that he's just not hitting fastballs as well as he did in years past.

[Spudboy]

But the stats back up the claim that he's just not hitting fastballs as well as he did in years past.

Well then as Jacko has suggested that could be the case.

I had just seen the interview and reiterated almost verbatim what Farrell had said.

One thing is certain, we have all seen this of Ortiz before. Maybe he can turn it around once more?

His plummeting BA from last year is worrisome.

[User Name?]

Batting average doesn't concern me in the least. He has to earn his keep hitting for power, and he's slugging like a backup MIF.

[Kimmi]

I can see that side of the argument, certainly. But there is another side that questions why they wouldn't be looking at the short term when they're spending this much money and going over the luxury tax limit.

They were looking at both the short term and the long term with the Lackey trade. Kelly and Craig both have the potential to help the Sox in 2015 and for several years to come. The short term has not worked out to date, but short term planning was in involved in that trade.

That said, I was surprised that the Sox spent as much money as they did, then did not go the extra step to acquire another starting pitcher. I really thought they would. But I also understand their rationale behind waiting 2 or 3 months into the season to see how things panned out.

[iortiz]

They were looking at both the short term and the long term with the Lackey trade. Kelly and Craig both have the potential to help the Sox in 2015 and for several years to come. The short term has not worked out to date, but short term planning was in involved in that trade.

That said, I was surprised that the Sox spent as much money as they did, then did not go the extra step to acquire another starting pitcher. I really thought they would. But I also understand their rationale behind waiting 2 or 3 months into the season to see how things panned out.

Thing is that we could be out of the race by the time, so it could be too late, reason why I insist, I do not like that strategy.

[Kimmi]

I'm almost always a fan of Ben Cherrington's moves, but the Lackey deal was awful. I was very outspoken about it, and was the one who started the thread here about it.

1) I look at this team's long term future more often than not.

Allen Craig -- at best -- is a .800 OPS first baseman with ugly defense and poor speed. On his career years, he has put up a 2 WAR. Even if he lived up to those expectations, he would have provided only marginal value at the contract cost because lumbering first basemen are cheap. That's IF healthy and effective.

Joe Kelly has one pitch. At best, we were probably looking at a 8th inning guy or mediocre starter unless he developed another. Maybe he'll provide value in the bullpen.

2) I am fine with trading players for elite prospects. I am not fine with trading high value pieces for low ceiling projects.

3) Kelly's success in St Louis came in the bullpen. His starter ERA is in the mid 4s. Most of the scouting reports at the time believed he was a reliever.

4) They had just traded Lester for Cespedes, who only wanted to play LF. Craig doesn't have the speed or armstrength for CF or RF.

6) None of those guys came in trades. Fliers are for free agents.

Some fair points Pal, and fair enough if you were against this trade from the outset. I still think the rationale for making this trade is valid though.

I disagree about the value that Kelly and Craig could provide the Sox over the length of their time with the Sox versus what Lackey could provide over a year and a half, and that's even if Kelly were moved to the BP. I also disagree that Kelly only has one pitch. IMO, his secondary pitches are decent. He just needs to learn how to locate better.

Lastly, I would disagree with your description of Kelly and Craig as "low ceiling projects".

[Kimmi]

Thing is that we could be out of the race by the time, so it could be too late, reason why I insist, I do not like that strategy.

The pitching really hasn't been the problem recently though. It's been the offense.

[iortiz]

Kelly could be very good at pen. Nothing more. On the other hand Craig could have another shot. If he shits the bed again he has to go.

[iortiz]

The pitching really hasn't been the problem recently though. It's been the offense.

Both have been the problem. 9 of the last 25 games this team has allowed 5+ Rs.

[iortiz]

Also, just in May the Sox are 24th in ERA in all baseball. Pitching has been a problem as well.

[Kimmi]

FTR, you guys are really depressing. LOL

There are 116 games left to be played. Think positive!

[iortiz]

FTR, you guys are really depressing. LOL

There are 116 games left to be played. Think positive!
I'm just pointing out facts. Both offense and pitching have sucked.

On the bright side, I think that our offense will awake. Porcello, Kelly and Masterson suck and will suck as starters. Kelly and Masterson could fit well at BP. Miley and Buch could be oks but I need to see more specially from Miley. The new two kids on the block at pitching could surprise everyone but still to be seen. Let's see if we trade a solid pitcher. In the end hopefully this could be enough to grab a PO slot, otherwise I see some heads rolling by the en of the season.

[Bellhorn04]

FTR, you guys are really depressing. LOL

There are 116 games left to be played. Think positive!

We're depressing because we're depressed, Kimmi. Following up a 71-91 season with a 21-26 start will do that to most fans, when you're a team with a high payroll and high expectations.

[Spudboy]

Batting average doesn't concern me in the least. He has to earn his keep hitting for power, and he's slugging like a backup MIF.

Maybe so but who needs Ryan Howard?

He was a .300 hitter two years ago. Now he is a .220 - .230 hitter with now power output.

Maybe this is the new norm for him. Maybe not.

[jacksonianmarch]

A few years ago, Ortiz did the same thing. I don't have the numbers in front of me for this ur, but his bat is slow. Ortiz in his prime demolished fastballs out over the plate. He didn't like the heat up and in and that was about it. Now, guys are getting him on fastballs out over the plate, which never happened before. He might finally be slowing down

[a700hitter]

I heard that Hanley is whining that his atrocious May has been the result of getting pitched tough and hitting line drives at people. Nevermind the excuses, Hanley.

[Spudboy]

I heard that Hanley is whining that his atrocious May has been the result of getting pitched tough and hitting line drives at people. Nevermind the excuses, Hanley.

I must have imagined all the weak ground balls to short.

[jacksonianmarch]

Are we surprised that Hanley is blaming others? He has been a prima donna since he was signed out of the DR.

[Kimmi]

We're depressing because we're depressed, Kimmi. Following up a 71-91 season with a 21-26 start will do that to most fans, when you're a team with a high payroll and high expectations.

None of us likes losing. Believe me when I say that I take the losses as hard as anyone. Gotta keep the faith though. :)

[Kimmi]

I must have imagined all the weak ground balls to short.

I read an interesting article about those "weak" ground balls. Many of his grounders are coming off his bat at 100 mph, according to Statcast. The grounders are slowing down after the first bounce.

The point being, he is not making weak contact. Someone pointed out that a ball coming off the bat at 100 mph at a +25 angle is a homerun. A ball coming off the bat at 25 degrees in the other direction becomes a "weak" grounder.

[Spudboy]

I read an interesting article about those "weak" ground balls. Many of his grounders are coming off his bat at 100 mph, according to Statcast. The grounders are slowing down after the first bounce.

The point being, he is not making weak contact. Someone pointed out that a ball coming off the bat at 100 mph at a +25 angle is a homerun. A ball coming off the bat at 25 degrees in the other direction becomes a "weak" grounder.

Nice stuff to know but he needs to have productive at bats. Really, other than his 10 HR April outburst, he has shown what I will delicately label disappointing power.

I was expecting many more XBH based on his stats. Oh well.

[Bellhorn04]

None of us likes losing. Believe me when I say that I take the losses as hard as anyone. Gotta keep the faith though. :)

I have very little faith this year, but I certainly still have just as much interest. Bring on the game. Go E-Rod!

[Northern Star]

I read an interesting article about those "weak" ground balls. Many of his grounders are coming off his bat at 100 mph, according to Statcast. The grounders are slowing down after the first bounce.

The point being, he is not making weak contact. Someone pointed out that a ball coming off the bat at 100 mph at a +25 angle is a homerun. A ball coming off the bat at 25 degrees in the other direction becomes a "weak" grounder.

I think the point is he's making excuses on the fly ball outs due to the way he's pitched. Just shut up and make adjustments. It's what you're paid to do (and what the hitting coach is paid to help you do).

[Northern Star]

I have very little faith this year, but I certainly still have just as much interest. Bring on the game. Go E-Rod!

I'm an atheist this year.

[Spudboy]

I have very little faith this year, but I certainly still have just as much interest. Bring on the game. Go E-Rod!

This is how I feel.

At this point I have lowered my expectations for this team. Now, I just want to see the team play good baseball and win maybe half of their games.

[User Name?]

I think the point is he's making excuses on the fly ball outs due to the way he's pitched. Just shut up and make adjustments. It's what you're paid to do (and what the hitting coach is paid to help you do).

Yeah I'm not sold on Davis.

[cp176]

Hanley Ramirez was right where he belongs last night - DH.

[Kimmi]

I think the point is he's making excuses on the fly ball outs due to the way he's pitched. Just shut up and make adjustments. It's what you're paid to do (and what the hitting coach is paid to help you do).

I understand and agree. I don't like to hear players making excuses either. I'm just trying to share some positives.

[a700hitter]

I understand and agree. I don't like to hear players making excuses either. I'm just trying to share some positives.Kimmi, if you are so positive about a last place team, your head must be spinning when the team is on a good run. ;) LOL!! If we didn't have hope, we couldn't watch. Keep the positives coming!

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, if you are so positive about a last place team, your head must be spinning when the team is on a good run. ;) LOL!! If we didn't have hope, we couldn't watch. Keep the positives coming!

Well, I'm not always so positive when our pitcher gives up a 3 run bomb. You would not want to watch games with me. LOL

That said, I have stay positive about the season long outcome and keep my hopes alive. As many members here do, I live and die with this team.

[Kimmi]

Speaking of positives,


Craig joined the PawSox after clearing wavers on May 12. In 13 games since then, he's hitting .315 with a .393 on-base percentage, .389 slugging percentage and .782 OPS. He's hit four doubles in that stretch, drawn six walks and struck out nine times.

Wouldn't it be nice if he could regain his stroke from a couple of years ago?

[User Name?]

Hanley credits video session with Pedroia for return of power (http://nesn.com/2015/05/hanley-ramirez-credits-dustin-pedroia-video-session-for-return-of-power/)

Fire Chili and Farrell, Pedroia for player/manager/hitting coach/pitching coach

[cp176]

Cool Works for me

[cp176]

Call yours and see you one better. Johnson line so far tonight - 4 innings - no hits - 5 strikeouts.

[Spudboy]

Hanley credits video session with Pedroia for return of power (http://nesn.com/2015/05/hanley-ramirez-credits-dustin-pedroia-video-session-for-return-of-power/)

Fire Chili and Farrell, Pedroia for player/manager/hitting coach/pitching coach

None of this surprises me at all. We all see the fire, the all out effort. We hear the sarcasm and humor. We assume he is a leader. What we never hear is that Pedroia is a pretty bright guy. Sort of like Larry Bird in a way.

I hope he has a session with Ortiz.

[Spudboy]

Call yours and see you one better. Johnson line so far tonight - 4 innings - no hits - 5 strikeouts.

We all give Ben shit for the assembly of a less than stellar staff this year. I have worked on the assumption that the Sox are setting this up for a good to outstanding 2016 and 2017.

Ben is brighter than we think. Maybe this is wishful thinking. I'm not sure.

[cp176]

We all give Ben shit for the assembly of a less than stellar staff this year. I have worked on the assumption that the Sox are setting this up for a good to outstanding 2016 and 2017.

Ben is brighter than we think. Maybe this is wishful thinking. I'm not sure.

Good point - Maybe no need for a major trade for pitching. Free agent maybe - trade maybe not.

[User Name?]

There seems to essentially have been a rotation-in-waiting for this team at AA/AAA at the beginning of this season.

[a700hitter]

We all give Ben shit for the assembly of a less than stellar staff this year. I have worked on the assumption that the Sox are setting this up for a good to outstanding 2016 and 2017.

Ben is brighter than we think. Maybe this is wishful thinking. I'm not sure.I really think this is wishful thinking. He is just as likely an errand boy whose loyalty has been rewarded with a job that is over his head. There is nothing in his his education or work resume that would indicate a high level of intelligence. I am pretty sure that he would get smoked in TalkSox Fantasy. Lol!

[jacksonianmarch]

If that's the case, there no reason to waste starts with Wright. Have Owens and Rodriguez fill the 4-5 holes with Buch, Miley and Porcello occupying the top 3. You won't win a lot, but you'll develop two high end arms for the future

[Bellhorn04]

I really think this is wishful thinking. He is just as likely an errand boy whose loyalty has been rewarded with a job that is over his head. There is nothing in his his education or work resume that would indicate a high level of intelligence. I am pretty sure that he would get smoked in TalkSox Fantasy. Lol!

I see no reason to demean Cherington with 'errand boy' and the like. But the reference to fantasy baseball does have some relevance for me. I have this slightly disturbing feeling that Cherington and the Sox have been taking a kind of impulsive, gambling approach with their moves. You certainly can't call it a conservative approach with the money they've thrown around.

One thing they seem to have gotten right in their projections is that the AL East stinks and they're going to be able to stay in the race if they can only sniff .500 ball. Then, supposedly, they can decide whether to beef up the rotation or not. I don't know if I like any of this thinking.

The bottom line is we've got a very expensive team with a 22-27 record and a run differential that's even worse.

To me this is the year for both Cherington and Farrell to show what they've got. Right now it doesn't look good.

And if it's the coaching that's letting us down, that's Cherington's ultimate responsibility too.

[jad]

We all give Ben shit for the assembly of a less than stellar staff this year. I have worked on the assumption that the Sox are setting this up for a good to outstanding 2016 and 2017.

Ben is brighter than we think. Maybe this is wishful thinking. I'm not sure.

$200/mil (Is that their payroll?) a year to "set things up" for two years down the road?? That may work, since anything can happen (e.g., 2013), but it doesn't sound like a coherent strategy to me. Exactly where is all this cash going that's supposed to pay dividends down the road?

[User Name?]

This coaching staff is terrible, and that's on Cherington. Too many offensive players underperforming and too many boneheaded running gaffes. Also, too many GIDPs in situations where it could be avoided with some strategy while Farrell rocks back and forth like a jackass.

[Kimmi]

We all give Ben shit for the assembly of a less than stellar staff this year. I have worked on the assumption that the Sox are setting this up for a good to outstanding 2016 and 2017.

Ben is brighter than we think. Maybe this is wishful thinking. I'm not sure.

Of course Ben is brighter than most people give him credit for. The idea that some on here think they know more and could do a better job as GM is ludicrous. Your first sentence hits on the main point of Ben's offseason moves, which is something that fans often tend to forget.

A GM has to build a team with both the short and long term goals in mind. As I posted before, the short term is not working very well right now, but think about the potential of this team over the next few years.

That's not to say that the FO blew this year off. I don't think they did. They put together a team that should be competitive (and is still only 3 games out), and would be looking much better if they were just performing to expectations.

[Kimmi]

I really think this is wishful thinking. He is just as likely an errand boy whose loyalty has been rewarded with a job that is over his head. There is nothing in his his education or work resume that would indicate a high level of intelligence. I am pretty sure that he would get smoked in TalkSox Fantasy. Lol!

For all the criticism Ben has received over the Lackey trade and his other moves, if Rodriguez turns out to be half as good as we hope he can be, then he will have been a steal. I realize it's only been one start, but even if Rodriguez ends up not being good, in theory, trading him for 2 months of Miller is a good move every time. I wonder why Ben gets no credit for that.

[a700hitter]

I see no reason to demean Cherington with 'errand boy' and the like. But the reference to fantasy baseball does have some relevance for me. I have this slightly disturbing feeling that Cherington and the Sox have been taking a kind of impulsive, gambling approach with their moves. You certainly can't call it a conservative approach with the money they've thrown around.

One thing they seem to have gotten right in their projections is that the AL East stinks and they're going to be able to stay in the race if they can only sniff .500 ball. Then, supposedly, they can decide whether to beef up the rotation or not. I don't know if I like any of this thinking.

The bottom line is we've got a very expensive team with a 22-27 record and a run differential that's even worse.

To me this is the year for both Cherington and Farrell to show what they've got. Right now it doesn't look good.

And if it's the coaching that's letting us down, that's Cherington's ultimate responsibility too.

"Errand Boy" is kind with the junk that he has run out there this season. I don't think that I am being harsh. If they finish last in 3 of 4 years, that will be a record of futility that none of us have witnessed in our life times. You would have to go back to the 1920's when they were playing in a half burned down ballpark to match such terrible results. I call him an errand boy, because I have checked his resume, and there is nothing distinguishing in it academically or professionally. They rewarded a loyal assistant with a job that is way over his head IMO. If this season continues like this, the fault is at his doorstep.

[Kimmi]

I see no reason to demean Cherington with 'errand boy' and the like. But the reference to fantasy baseball does have some relevance for me. I have this slightly disturbing feeling that Cherington and the Sox have been taking a kind of impulsive, gambling approach with their moves. You certainly can't call it a conservative approach with the money they've thrown around.

One thing they seem to have gotten right in their projections is that the AL East stinks and they're going to be able to stay in the race if they can only sniff .500 ball. Then, supposedly, they can decide whether to beef up the rotation or not. I don't know if I like any of this thinking.

The bottom line is we've got a very expensive team with a 22-27 record and a run differential that's even worse.

To me this is the year for both Cherington and Farrell to show what they've got. Right now it doesn't look good.

And if it's the coaching that's letting us down, that's Cherington's ultimate responsibility too.

I don't think Ben and company had any intention of building a team that would merely stay in the race by playing .500 ball. The underperformances on this team are staggering, pretty much from 1-25. Sure, you have to expect some underperformances. At the same time, it's not unrealistic to expect some overperformances.

It's not working out at the moment, but IMO, it was a sound approach. I don't necessarily agree with it 100%, but it was sound nonetheless.

[a700hitter]

For all the criticism Ben has received over the Lackey trade and his other moves, if Rodriguez turns out to be half as good as we hope he can be, then he will have been a steal. I realize it's only been one start, but even if Rodriguez ends up not being good, in theory, trading him for 2 months of Miller is a good move every time. I wonder why Ben gets no credit for that.if Rodriguez is the Real McCoy, it was a great deal for a reliever. In that case, there was a bidding war for Miller and Ben played it right. He should have taken a similar tact with Lackey instead of accepting used spare parts from the Cardinals.

[Kimmi]

This coaching staff is terrible, and that's on Cherington. Too many offensive players underperforming and too many boneheaded running gaffes. Also, too many GIDPs in situations where it could be avoided with some strategy while Farrell rocks back and forth like a jackass.

Two things that are really annoying with this team:

1. The starters' inability to throw a shut down inning after our offense ties the game or takes the lead.
2. The offense's inability to have a big inning because every time they have the potential for one, the next batter comes up and GIDPs.

[Kimmi]

if Rodriguez is the Real McCoy, it was a great deal for a reliever. In that case, there was a bidding war for Miller and Ben played it right. He should have taken a similar tact with Lackey instead of accepting used spare parts from the Cardinals.

It was a great deal up front, even if Rodriguez doesn't pan out. Trading 2 months of a reliever for a top prospect starting pitcher is a no brainer.

The Sox wanted major league ready players in return for Lackey and Lester. The FO had no intention of punting away 2015.

[a700hitter]

It was a great deal up front, even if Rodriguez doesn't pan out. Trading 2 months of a reliever for a top prospect starting pitcher is a no brainer.

The Sox wanted major league ready players in return for Lackey and Lester. The FO had no intention of punting away 2015.

Whether a deal is great, is decided after the results are in. If Rodriguez was a bust, no one would care much as we only gave up our 7th inning reliever. If he turns out to be good, it is a great deal.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think Ben and company had any intention of building a team that would merely stay in the race by playing .500 ball. The underperformances on this team are staggering, pretty much from 1-25. Sure, you have to expect some underperformances. At the same time, it's not unrealistic to expect some overperformances.

It's not working out at the moment, but IMO, it was a sound approach. I don't necessarily agree with it 100%, but it was sound nonetheless.

If the third highest payroll in the game and a sound approach gets you a 22-27 with a 20-29 Pythagorean, what does this say about sound approaches and projections?

Also, this is two years in a row of vastly underperforming expectations. If it was just this year it would be a bit less disturbing.

[User Name?]

I'll say it until I am blue in the face: 50% of this team's problems lie with the coaching staff. Why the hell is Pedey the one finding mechanical flaws with our hitters? Why are they trying to change Porcello's approach mid-season? Why doesn't this team employ any sort of on-field strategy other than shifting? Why is Sandoval so fat?

All pertinent questions that tie in directly with this team's poor record thus far.

[a700hitter]

Excuses excuses. This crapfest that Ben is turning out for the third year in 4 years at the helm is starting to hit them in the pocket books. The have already opened up new subscriptions for season tickets which they have not done in around a decade. They are coming up with new ticket marketing techniques etc. Once the bottom line is affected Ben will be gone very fast. JH and LL know that prolonged terrible performance by a premium franchise can cause lasting financial damage to the franchise.

[iortiz]

Excuses excuses. This crapfest that Ben is turning out for the third year in 4 years at the helm is starting to hit them in the pocket books. The have already opened up new subscriptions for season tickets which they have not done in around a decade. They are coming up with new ticket marketing techniques etc. Once the bottom line is affected Ben will be gone very fast. JH and LL know that prolonged terrible performance by a premium franchise can cause lasting financial damage to the franchise.

He has to go already. Too many flaws in the team. As I said, we need another strategy.

[Spudboy]

I doubt that the FO will dump Cherrington during the season.

[Bellhorn04]

No, he certainly shouldn't be dumped during the season. Especially when the results are far from all in.

[a700hitter]

He should see the season through, but if they are in the same place at the end of the season he has to go, and his career in baseball will be finished.

Edit, Farrell should be fired in season if for no other reason than to light a fire under some asses in the clubhouse.

[Spudboy]

He should see the season through, but if they are in the same place at the end of the season he has to go, and his career in baseball will be finished.

Edit, Farrell should be fired in season if for no other reason than to light a fire under some asses in the clubhouse.

I'm not defending the guy but do you think that kind of thing really works?

[a700hitter]

I'm not defending the guy but do you think that kind of thing really works?Rarely, but it might make them feel like shit that they cost him his job. They deserve to feel like shit for the way that they have played, and he deserves to be fired. There's no downsided to firing him.

[Spudboy]

Rarely, but it might make them feel like shit that they cost him his job. They deserve to feel like shit for the way that they have played, and he deserves to be fired. There's no downsided to firing him.

Okay. Who would you like to see take his place? You know I have my choice of Eric Wedge.

[a700hitter]

Okay. Who would you like to see take his place? You know I have my choice of Eric Wedge.As an interim, I don't think it matters much. i haven't thought much about a full time replacement. Spud, you know that I don't have much regard for the whole lot of them. LOL!!

[Northern Star]

Rarely, but it might make them feel like shit that they cost him his job. They deserve to feel like shit for the way that they have played, and he deserves to be fired. There's no downsided to firing him.

If they've already tuned him out why would they give a shit about him losing his job? They'd probably be glad.

[Northern Star]

Maybe we should follow Miami's lead and have Ben be the manager?

[Kimmi]

If the third highest payroll in the game and a sound approach gets you a 22-27 with a 20-29 Pythagorean, what does this say about sound approaches and projections?

Also, this is two years in a row of vastly underperforming expectations. If it was just this year it would be a bit less disturbing.

Sometimes the best laid out plans can go awry. There is nobody, scout or stat geek, who could have imagined the Sox being as bad as they are.

I get what you're saying about this happening two years in a row, but I would offer this. Two years in a row would be one thing if the FO had gone with the same team and/or the same philosophy for both years. However, they recognized what they felt were the fatal flaws from 2014 (lack of offense and lack of depth) and did a pretty good job of fixing them, IMO. At least on paper. It's really uncanny that the offense is as bad as it is.

[Kimmi]

I'll say it until I am blue in the face: 50% of this team's problems lie with the coaching staff. Why the hell is Pedey the one finding mechanical flaws with our hitters? Why are they trying to change Porcello's approach mid-season? Why doesn't this team employ any sort of on-field strategy other than shifting? Why is Sandoval so fat?

All pertinent questions that tie in directly with this team's poor record thus far.

I thought we agreed that we were going to let Sandoval be fat. Look at Fielder. Dude is raking right now.

As far as the coaching staff goes, you do have to wonder about them. I, too, questioned why Pedroia is the one finding these flaws in other hitter's mechanics. Where is the coaching staff in all of this?

It's like last year when one of the analysts showed some side by side video of Buchholz' delivery, and noted that that should be an easy problem to fix. I could clearly see the difference in his mechanics, and I'm just a lowly fan. Why hadn't the pitching coach corrected this problem last year?

There are a lot of people calling for Ben's job. As of now, besides the players themselves, I think the coaching staff, Farrell included, are the ones whose jobs should be on the line.

[Kimmi]

Maybe we should follow Miami's lead and have Ben be the manager?

My vote is for Pedroia as a player/manager.

If anyone can get this team going, he can.

[User Name?]

I thought we agreed that we were going to let Sandoval be fat. Look at Fielder. Dude is raking right now.

As far as the coaching staff goes, you do have to wonder about them. I, too, questioned why Pedroia is the one finding these flaws in other hitter's mechanics. Where is the coaching staff in all of this?

It's like last year when one of the analysts showed some side by side video of Buchholz' delivery, and noted that that should be an easy problem to fix. I could clearly see the difference in his mechanics, and I'm just a lowly fan. Why hadn't the pitching coach corrected this problem last year?

There are a lot of people calling for Ben's job. As of now, besides the players themselves, I think the coaching staff, Farrell included, are the ones whose jobs should be on the line.

It was a joke.

[mvp 78]

It was a joke.

Good thing I deleted my 2,000 word post on complaints about Panda's weight.

[Kimmi]

It was a joke.

Never mind then.

[Kimmi]

Some good news:


A. Craig needs to hit like a mofo to get back on the 40man. Well, he just hit his first HR, .333 BA .415 OBP last 15 G. Last 7 G: 8 BB, 2 K.

[jacksonianmarch]

Looking at the individual players on this team...

Hanley Ramirez has a .795OPS, just a tick below his OPS from last yr. He's hit 1 less HR than he did all of last season. He's probably gonna hit a bunch more. He'll likely end up in the 25HR range this yr and should have an OPS over the .800 mark. Fangraphs has him as a slight minus when combining offense and baserunning for his position. But his defense has been abhorrent. He has a UZR/150 of -44. That's not a typo. He's a good offensive player, he's right around where fangraphs expects him to be offensively for his position, but he's a dumpster fire on a sinking ship defensively. He likely has a short rope in LF before you find a new spot for him, where I don't know

Pedroia has been chugging along mostly off the radar right at his career norms offensively. Almost exactly at his career average in terms of BA, OBP and SLG. On defense, he's grading out about average this yr (UZR/150 of -0.4) which is not really like Dustin. Either way, his demise was predicted far too soon.

I like Brock Holt. The kid makes good ABs and actually plays good D all around the diamond. He's been an excellent utility guy to this point, but because he started hot, he is starting to get over exposed. He is an option defensive in LF as Hanley sucks ass out there

I don't know what you can do with Napoli. The luck numbers point heavily in him turning it around. But just as soon as he gets hot, he cools off. If he starts to go into a downturn again, you might consider Hanley at 1b or Hanley at 3b with Panda moving to 1b and moving Holt to LF. Napoli isn't horrendous defensively, but he's not magnificent either. Also, Nap is smoking lefties this yr. .920OPS and a .364OBP.

David Ortiz has been a mystery to some as well. But looking deeper at the numbers, you see a bit of a trend here. Ortiz is absolutely getting abused vs lefties this yr. .121/.119/.172 is his slash line in 58ABs. That is not a typo. No walks, no HBP's, no HR and just 3RBI. Look at the slash vs righties. .278/.392/.500 for a .892OPS. That's more Ortiz like right there. If things continue, having Nap and Papi platoon might give you your best lineup.

The rest of the guys you have to deal with. Panda has ditched batting righty and has to stay in your lineup. Bogaerts is your only SS option and you kinda need to see if he puts it together. For now you have to live with Mookie and Rusney out there. And at C, you have to live with Swihart and Leon because of injury.

But if you moved Hanley off LF and put him at 1b or 3b (which would move Panda to 1b) and pushed Napoli to a DH platoon with Papi and moved Holt to LF (temporarily until you find a better LFer, which isn't too difficult on the market) you improve D while removing some liability offensively

[Bellhorn04]

Napoli has turned it around already. In his last 12 games he's hitting 368/500/816.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's 2 for his last 10

[Bellhorn04]

He's 2 for his last 10

Not a very big sample. But he also has 6 walks in the last 3 games.

[Spudboy]

I like Jacko's ideas but I don't see this team making those moves. I think the org is too dedicated to Papi to declare him a platoon hitter for one.

For two, moving the two big FA acquisitions that way would sort of be admitting that their plan was fucked up and a mistake.

Believe it or not, teams, especially the Sox, allow egos to interfere with sound reasoning.

At least that is what I suspect.

I will not be surprised if Nap is gone at the end of the year and one of the two big FA is playing 1st base next year.

Obviously if Papi is gone Hanley would replace him at DH.

Has anyone looked at Hanleys arms? They are fucking massive. Bigger and more defined than Papi's. His whole body is way too big to be a middle infielder. No wonder he sucks at it.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox Re-Sign Jeff Bianchi
By Zach Links [May 31, 2015 at 12:11pm CDT]

The Red Sox have re-signed infielder Jeff Bianchi, according to Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe (on Twitter). Just yesterday, Bianchi rejected an outright assignment from Boston after clearing waivers.

Bianchi’s cup of coffee in the big time with Boston will last at least a little big longer this year. He’s performed well at Triple-A, amassing a .302/.373/.340 slash line in 61 plate appearances. From 2012 through 2014, Bianchi saw time in a combined 162 games for the Brewers. In that span he posted a below average batting line of .216/.251/.283.

To make room on the roster, left-hander Robbie Ross has been optioned to the minors.
Our season is saved. This should help our pitching more than it will help our offense.

[Bellhorn04]

Those are the kinds of transactions you didn't even know about before the internet.

[bostopz]

Looking at the individual players on this team...

Hanley Ramirez has a .795OPS, just a tick below his OPS from last yr. He's hit 1 less HR than he did all of last season. He's probably gonna hit a bunch more. He'll likely end up in the 25HR range this yr and should have an OPS over the .800 mark. Fangraphs has him as a slight minus when combining offense and baserunning for his position. But his defense has been abhorrent. He has a UZR/150 of -44. That's not a typo. He's a good offensive player, he's right around where fangraphs expects him to be offensively for his position, but he's a dumpster fire on a sinking ship defensively. He likely has a short rope in LF before you find a new spot for him, where I don't know

Pedroia has been chugging along mostly off the radar right at his career norms offensively. Almost exactly at his career average in terms of BA, OBP and SLG. On defense, he's grading out about average this yr (UZR/150 of -0.4) which is not really like Dustin. Either way, his demise was predicted far too soon.

I like Brock Holt. The kid makes good ABs and actually plays good D all around the diamond. He's been an excellent utility guy to this point, but because he started hot, he is starting to get over exposed. He is an option defensive in LF as Hanley sucks ass out there

I don't know what you can do with Napoli. The luck numbers point heavily in him turning it around. But just as soon as he gets hot, he cools off. If he starts to go into a downturn again, you might consider Hanley at 1b or Hanley at 3b with Panda moving to 1b and moving Holt to LF. Napoli isn't horrendous defensively, but he's not magnificent either. Also, Nap is smoking lefties this yr. .920OPS and a .364OBP.

David Ortiz has been a mystery to some as well. But looking deeper at the numbers, you see a bit of a trend here. Ortiz is absolutely getting abused vs lefties this yr. .121/.119/.172 is his slash line in 58ABs. That is not a typo. No walks, no HBP's, no HR and just 3RBI. Look at the slash vs righties. .278/.392/.500 for a .892OPS. That's more Ortiz like right there. If things continue, having Nap and Papi platoon might give you your best lineup.

The rest of the guys you have to deal with. Panda has ditched batting righty and has to stay in your lineup. Bogaerts is your only SS option and you kinda need to see if he puts it together. For now you have to live with Mookie and Rusney out there. And at C, you have to live with Swihart and Leon because of injury.

But if you moved Hanley off LF and put him at 1b or 3b (which would move Panda to 1b) and pushed Napoli to a DH platoon with Papi and moved Holt to LF (temporarily until you find a better LFer, which isn't too difficult on the market) you improve D while removing some liability offensively

Nice calls. Two points.

1--- With Hanley either LF or DH. Nothing else at least for this year. I highly doubt he can play 3b anymore (when I say anymore - I mean lf side of the infield.) . And Napoli is pretty good at 1b. I don't think Hanley can handle it. So - platoon Papi and Napoli is a possibility. Holt can play 1b or LF. IMO Papi is a better alternative at 1b than Hanley.

2--- The reason why I question stats so much is sometimes I think some are full of crap. I think Pedroia's defense has been super his year.

[User Name?]

What you think or don't think doesn't affect what is or isn't. That said, stats like UZR have weird fluctuations on smaller samples.

[mvp 78]

Pedroia has had his worst defensive season this year imo.

[iortiz]

This team is fucked up in every possibly way. Thank you Ben.

[cp176]

It's a complete muddlefuck and i really don't know who to blame. Summer is going to suck - i need help. when tony C. came in as a rookie we at least we had something to look forward to. If it wasn't for E-rod, i might have to take time off.

[cp176]

My team sucks - i don't get it. The cheese is sliding off my cracker.

[Northern Star]

The cheese is sliding off my cracker.

Is that the latest self-help book for business leaders?

[Northern Star]

This team is fucked up in every possibly way. Thank you Ben.

I don't see how Ben is getting a pass in some quarters. Not gonna say everything is his fault, but this is NOT a good roster, even on paper.

[User Name?]

Whoever says they expected the offense to be this bad is full of shit. It's a good roster, with an obvious hole they could have fixed. The problem is they're not doing anything right, inexplicably.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

and pushed Napoli to a DH platoon with Papi
Last time Papi was in a DH platoon (with Lowell) he started behaving like a colossal dickhead and did a number on clubhouse chemistry. Don't know if the Sox will be in a hurry to replicate that scenario.

[SoxnCycles]

Whoever says they expected the offense to be this bad is full of shit. It's a good roster, with an obvious hole they could have fixed. The problem is they're not doing anything right, inexplicably.

Yup, everyone knew the rotation would be a crapshoot.
Who knew they'd roll twos every time out.

No one complained about the offense, except the odd move of signing two 3b.

The defense on this road trip has been abysmal, with Sandoval's two errors yesterday being the coup de gras.

[SoxnCycles]

Last time Papi was in a DH platoon (with Lowell) he started behaving like a colossal dickhead and did a number on clubhouse chemistry. Don't know if the Sox will be in a hurry to replicate that scenario.

The time off may have done Ortiz some good.
He's 3-8 with 2 walks and no ks, in the last two games.

I don't see them resorting to a platoon any time soon.

[wyo-sox]

It's just sad and embarrassing at this point. I really want to be the patient fan who knows things will turn around, but we've had some real terrible seasons recently which makes it harder and harder to have faith. Something is going on here beyond what we can see. This is a poor organization right now. Somebody tell me I'm wrong and convince me this streak is an anomaly and soon I'll be having fun watching the Sox compete for wins again.

[iortiz]

It's just sad and embarrassing at this point. I really want to be the patient fan who knows things will turn around, but we've had some real terrible seasons recently which makes it harder and harder to have faith. Something is going on here beyond what we can see. This is a poor organization right now. Somebody tell me I'm wrong and convince me this streak is an anomaly and soon I'll be having fun watching the Sox compete for wins again.

I take this as an opportunity to think that JH is finally going to change the management and coaching staff in order to give us a new direction and strategy specially at assembling a pitching staff going forward.

[a700hitter]

Our most successful first rounf pick in recent history was Daniel Bard (2006). That is not a good record.

[Palodios]

Our most successful first rounf pick in recent history was Daniel Bard (2006). That is not a good record.

The recent drafts are stocked with first rounders who still many be successful... Swihart, Barnes, Owens, Brentz, Marrero, Ball and others. 2006-2009 were just awful draft years for the Sox.

[mvp 78]

The recent drafts are stocked with first rounders who still many be successful... Swihart, Barnes, Owens, Brentz, Marrero, Ball and others. 2006-2009 were just awful draft years for the Sox.

Thanks Theo!

[SoxnCycles]

Thanks Theo!

With their record, those years, the Sox weren't exactly picking high in the draft to begin with.

[Station 13]

What year did Rizzo got drafted? He is a force now and probably the best NL 1B.

[a700hitter]

The recent drafts are stocked with first rounders who still many be successful... Swihart, Barnes, Owens, Brentz, Marrero, Ball and others. 2006-2009 were just awful draft years for the Sox.We will have to see how they turn out. I think it is fair to say that our farm system has been in a drought period for some time.

[Bellhorn04]

Last time Papi was in a DH platoon (with Lowell) he started behaving like a colossal dickhead and did a number on clubhouse chemistry. Don't know if the Sox will be in a hurry to replicate that scenario.

Ortiz was never in a DH platoon with Lowell.

[User Name?]

What year did Rizzo got drafted? He is a force now and probably the best NL 1B.

He's good, but he's no Paul Goldschmidt.

[sk7326]

Some of the draft pick discussion can't be had honestly without pointing out that two of the first rounders landed Adrian Gonzalez, Hagadone and Brian Price landed Victor Martinez - draft picks as currency do matter too.

The Red Sox draft strategy has been straightforward for a number of years - college pitchers (mostly) and up the middle high schoolers - in other words, ath-a-letes. There have been a couple of prep pitchers, and Clay Buchholz (who was JC and slipped due to him stealing and fencing laptops).

So what you get are high probability guys largely - it is a pretty safe strategy for producing guys who can at least be projected as regulars. Given the draft position - not as easy for finding stars (but isn't that always the case).

[Palodios]

We will have to see how they turn out. I think it is fair to say that our farm system has been in a drought period for some time.

Agreed. I have high hopes for the current group, but so far not much luck.

[curiousd]

Yup, everyone knew the rotation would be a crapshoot.
Who knew they'd roll twos every time out.

No one complained about the offense, except the odd move of signing two 3b.

The defense on this road trip has been abysmal, with Sandoval's two errors yesterday being the coup de gras.


Yesterday on the radio a commentator said that HanRam has a negative WAR despite the good hitting, because of the abysmal defense. So far this year his fielding might be approaching historical badness - vying with the likes of Dick Stuart (Dr. Strangeglove) at first or the legendary Smead Jolley in the OF. Did HanRam ever attempt LF before?

[Kimmi]

2--- The reason why I question stats so much is sometimes I think some are full of crap. I think Pedroia's defense has been super his year.

The thing with defensive stats is that the sample is way too small to conclude anything after 2 months of baseball. Even one season is not a large enough sample. They are good to look at to get some sort of feel, but at this point you have to take them with a grain of salt.

[Kimmi]

I don't see how Ben is getting a pass in some quarters. Not gonna say everything is his fault, but this is NOT a good roster, even on paper.

I would have to disagree. On paper, this is a roster good enough to win the division. IMO, Ben gets a pass because he cannot control what happens on the field. He can't help it that the players are underperforming so such a large extent.

[Kimmi]

Whoever says they expected the offense to be this bad is full of shit. It's a good roster, with an obvious hole they could have fixed. The problem is they're not doing anything right, inexplicably.

Posts like this are the reason why you, sir, are the king.

[Kimmi]

It's just sad and embarrassing at this point. I really want to be the patient fan who knows things will turn around, but we've had some real terrible seasons recently which makes it harder and harder to have faith. Something is going on here beyond what we can see. This is a poor organization right now. Somebody tell me I'm wrong and convince me this streak is an anomaly and soon I'll be having fun watching the Sox compete for wins again.

You are wrong. This streak is an anomaly. (Personally, I like enigma.) You will soon be having fun watching the Sox compete for wins again!

[iortiz]

I would have to disagree. On paper, this is a roster good enough to win the division. IMO, Ben gets a pass because he cannot control what happens on the field. He can't help it that the players are underperforming so such a large extent.

3/4 of horrible years would speak volumes of how bad this team has been run, even with that WS. If this ends bad again (as it seems), Ben will likely lose his job.

[jad]

Exactly. The only anomaly in the last four years is the WS win.

[cp176]

The thing with defensive stats is that the sample is way too small to conclude anything after 2 months of baseball. Even one season is not a large enough sample. They are good to look at to get some sort of feel, but at this point you have to take them with a grain of salt.

I will not argue with you stat (master or mistriss)? I would only say that Hanley does not pass the eye test. In my estimation, he is an enigma. An adequate fielder in the infield and a man on a mission in the outfield. Not talking about the nuances of the wall or anything particularly technical. In a normal situation, you take a shortstop, a very good athlete (usually 1 of the best on your team) and stick him in the outfield- you expect him to be able to track and catch a fly ball. Not so much with HR. I like him too. Initially I did not like the aquisiton but I like him. His attitude has been perfect and he appears to be a good teammate. It is a conundrum. Eventually it looks like he is heading for the dh role. Right now I wish that he could be somewhere else other than left field.

[wyo-sox]

You are wrong. This streak is an anomaly. (Personally, I like enigma.) You will soon be having fun watching the Sox compete for wins again!

I will give you two weeks to make good on this, if not you are in lots of trouble!

[Kimmi]

3/4 of horrible years would speak volumes of how bad this team has been run, even with that WS. If this ends bad again (as it seems), Ben will likely lose his job.

I would not be surprised if Ben loses his job if this season continues as it is going now. I just don't think he's at fault here. This is on the players. I felt the same way last year.