RedSoxRooter
12-29-2004, 06:30 PM
Mike Lupica is one of the few NY beat writers who's actually good. Yankee fans hate him (http://boards.yesnetwork.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28207) because he tells the truth and he's not an arrogant jerk in doing so. Anyway, here's an interesting article he wrote for Sunday.
He makes the good point of Torre getting off easy last year after the collapse. He also makes the case that if the Yankees don't win the World Series this year, he may be (or should be) fired. I tend to agree considering all the factors listed below.
FYI, Lupica and Bob Ryan are on "The Sports Reports" on ESPN on Sunday mornings. It's one of the best shows on ESPN if you ask me. You should check it out.
Joe doesn't get off easy
If Joe Torre fails to win the World Series again this season, he will have to answer some tough questions.
There is no manager besides Joe Torre who could walk away from a train wreck like the end of the Yankees-Red Sox series, who could be given the resources he is about to be given again and not have his job on the line for the 2005 season.
It is a tribute to Torre's complete resume since 1996, his stature in New York City at this time, where he is probably the second most popular, and revered, sports figure after Derek Jeter.
But Torre better win this season.
Oh, sure. If you consider what the Yankee payroll might be, if you consider a situation unprecedented in American sports, where one team could have a payroll that is $100 million clear of the field, Torre better win going away.
Everybody knows what we get from Torre. We get his class, the patience he shows with his owner and his ballplayers and everybody else, we get the only manager who could have lasted this way with George Steinbrenner. And we have all those division titles and three World Series in a row once.
In the process, Torre has become the most respected coach or manager in the business now that Phil Jackson is off the sidelines, angling for Lenny Wilkens' job.
Torre also gets everything he wants, in a way no coach or manager ever has, in any sport. He gets more players than anybody, and that means high-end players. If he doesn't like the starting rotation one season, they go out and get him practically a new rotation the next. This isn't some big shot at Torre, just the facts of his situation. I have been on Joe Torre's side since Frank Cashen fired him from the Mets a million years ago.
But if Brian Cashman is on the line this season, how can Joe not be?
This time around he gets a new $7 million-a-year starter in Jaret Wright. He gets a new $10 million-a-year starter in Carl Pavano. He may yet get Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran. This a year after getting Alex Rodriguez and Gary Sheffield and Javier Vazquez and Tom Gordon and Paul Quantrill. Nobody gets the way Torre does. When that happens, when your owner has spent around three-quarters-of-a-BILLION dollars over the past four seasons to NOT win the World Series, you better not make it five seasons in a row without the big trophy.
Torre is already in the Hall of Fame as a manager, the way he should have made the Hall as a player. He already has taken his place in Yankee history with Miller Huggins and Joe McCarthy and Casey Stengel. Nothing can change that, no matter how he leaves the room eventually.
Was the collapse against the Red Sox all his fault? Not even close. Does he have to share some of the responsibility? You bet. It was his decision to go with Kevin Brown in Game 7, his decision to bring Vazquez out of the bullpen after Brown, his decision to pull Mike Mussina out of Game 5 when he did. He didn't try to steal a base with a struggling Tim Wakefield on the mound. Torre didn't lose that series, but it is fair to say he didn't do much to help win it after Game 3.
Everybody shares in an epic collapse. It was the same way against the Marlins, when Boomer Wells had to walk off the mound in Game 5 and the Yankees stopped hitting and everybody acted afterward as if Jeff Weaver brought himself into the game to throw that home run ball to Alex Gonzalez.
Torre's payroll was $130 million bigger than the Marlins' was. He was nearly $70 million clear of the Red Sox. Jack McKeon's team got the Yankees two years ago. Terry Francona's team got Torre's last time. Nobody better get him this time. Nobody stays bulletproof forever. Not even Joe. The Yankees aren't measured in division titles and pennants and neither is he.
=================
So the question is, with or without the 230 million projected payroll, should Torre be fired if he doesn't win the WS this year?
He makes the good point of Torre getting off easy last year after the collapse. He also makes the case that if the Yankees don't win the World Series this year, he may be (or should be) fired. I tend to agree considering all the factors listed below.
FYI, Lupica and Bob Ryan are on "The Sports Reports" on ESPN on Sunday mornings. It's one of the best shows on ESPN if you ask me. You should check it out.
Joe doesn't get off easy
If Joe Torre fails to win the World Series again this season, he will have to answer some tough questions.
There is no manager besides Joe Torre who could walk away from a train wreck like the end of the Yankees-Red Sox series, who could be given the resources he is about to be given again and not have his job on the line for the 2005 season.
It is a tribute to Torre's complete resume since 1996, his stature in New York City at this time, where he is probably the second most popular, and revered, sports figure after Derek Jeter.
But Torre better win this season.
Oh, sure. If you consider what the Yankee payroll might be, if you consider a situation unprecedented in American sports, where one team could have a payroll that is $100 million clear of the field, Torre better win going away.
Everybody knows what we get from Torre. We get his class, the patience he shows with his owner and his ballplayers and everybody else, we get the only manager who could have lasted this way with George Steinbrenner. And we have all those division titles and three World Series in a row once.
In the process, Torre has become the most respected coach or manager in the business now that Phil Jackson is off the sidelines, angling for Lenny Wilkens' job.
Torre also gets everything he wants, in a way no coach or manager ever has, in any sport. He gets more players than anybody, and that means high-end players. If he doesn't like the starting rotation one season, they go out and get him practically a new rotation the next. This isn't some big shot at Torre, just the facts of his situation. I have been on Joe Torre's side since Frank Cashen fired him from the Mets a million years ago.
But if Brian Cashman is on the line this season, how can Joe not be?
This time around he gets a new $7 million-a-year starter in Jaret Wright. He gets a new $10 million-a-year starter in Carl Pavano. He may yet get Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran. This a year after getting Alex Rodriguez and Gary Sheffield and Javier Vazquez and Tom Gordon and Paul Quantrill. Nobody gets the way Torre does. When that happens, when your owner has spent around three-quarters-of-a-BILLION dollars over the past four seasons to NOT win the World Series, you better not make it five seasons in a row without the big trophy.
Torre is already in the Hall of Fame as a manager, the way he should have made the Hall as a player. He already has taken his place in Yankee history with Miller Huggins and Joe McCarthy and Casey Stengel. Nothing can change that, no matter how he leaves the room eventually.
Was the collapse against the Red Sox all his fault? Not even close. Does he have to share some of the responsibility? You bet. It was his decision to go with Kevin Brown in Game 7, his decision to bring Vazquez out of the bullpen after Brown, his decision to pull Mike Mussina out of Game 5 when he did. He didn't try to steal a base with a struggling Tim Wakefield on the mound. Torre didn't lose that series, but it is fair to say he didn't do much to help win it after Game 3.
Everybody shares in an epic collapse. It was the same way against the Marlins, when Boomer Wells had to walk off the mound in Game 5 and the Yankees stopped hitting and everybody acted afterward as if Jeff Weaver brought himself into the game to throw that home run ball to Alex Gonzalez.
Torre's payroll was $130 million bigger than the Marlins' was. He was nearly $70 million clear of the Red Sox. Jack McKeon's team got the Yankees two years ago. Terry Francona's team got Torre's last time. Nobody better get him this time. Nobody stays bulletproof forever. Not even Joe. The Yankees aren't measured in division titles and pennants and neither is he.
=================
So the question is, with or without the 230 million projected payroll, should Torre be fired if he doesn't win the WS this year?