PDA

View Full Version : Continuation Tex-Mil



youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 07:03 PM
not sure why yeszir locked the other one prematurely...

anyway. gertie has stated he has no problem with the trade. it is very likely there are others who agree and haven't posted.

Yanks in 05
01-18-2005, 07:06 PM
Jeez do u read? He said to stop the nonsence. Also, the council voted it down , so the trades sorta dead.

ACL BoSox
01-18-2005, 07:24 PM
Have you realized this is the reasox why the thread out in the first place.

Gertie
01-18-2005, 08:44 PM
I have no problem with the trade, but it seems everyone else does, so it's not going through. Although it's not a completely fair deal, Soriano is a great player. The FA signing issue is up to the league moderators, but I disagreed with that decision from the beginning. Although most real-life teams wouldn't do that, it does happen. Again, it's up to Sandman, Radgeta, et al, but that's my opinion on the issue.

yeszir
01-18-2005, 08:51 PM
Ok, this thread is back open.

But discuss things civily! I promise you, the next person to get into any sort of stupid argument, which includes but is not limited to: name calling, name calling, name calling, and unnecessary swearing directed at someone will be given a 3 day ban.

Keep that in mind.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 09:31 PM
Okay here is my argument directed towards trade council and NOT others (thank you very much yanks in 05).

The trade as it stands:

Milwaukee sends:

C, Ivan Rodriguez (4.5 gold, $7million)
DH, Travis Hafner (4.5 gold, $4.2million)

Texas sends:

2b, Alfonso Soriano (4.0 gold, $12.5 million)
C, Mitch Meluskey (2.5 gold, $500K)
SP, Brad Hennessey (4.0 blue, MLC)
SP, Jerome Gamble (3.5 blue, MLC)
RP Gary Majewski (3.5 blue, MLC)
$2million

I see that there are two issues to defend here: (1) whether Soriano is allowed to be traded and (2) whether the trade is egregiously unfair as for it to be vetoed. I will adress each separately.

(1) In my opinion Soriano should absolutely be allowed to be traded. At the time I offered him his contract the only rule that I or anyone had read were the "Free Agency Rules" posted by ACL who was running Free Agency. I was ENTIRELY under the impression that it was legitimate to trade newly signed FAs after the beginning of the season. This was a big part of my thinking when I devised my offseason strategy and offered the mega-contract to Soriano. Bonds* posted his ammendment to the rule MUCH LATER ON. I understand where this rule is coming from, and I have no gripe with it, but it is without a doubt unfair to impose it on previous signings. If the rule applies to offers that were submitted AFTER the post, it is perfectly acceptable. However, at the time I had no idea this was the case.

It is also important to consider that a trade involving Alex Gonzalez was passed. AG is in the exact same situation as Soriano. This trade DID go through. I do not see how one can go through and another cannot. Even if you disagree with my reasoning in the first paragraph you must surely think it fair that if one such trade is processed, all should be. The point is Soriano should without a doubt be allowed to be traded. From this point onwards (read: next year's Free Agency) Bonds*'s rule should apply.

(2) This trade is definitely fair and makes sense. While I-Rod is a very good catcher, he is still 33 years old. Hafner is also undeniably a great player, but he is listed as primarily a DH -- milwaukee is a national league team with no spot for the DH.

You should also take into consideration that Milwaukee has a stud Catching prospect not far away who will easily start in a year or two. This is aside from multiple developed hitters who could replace Hafner in the lineup.

In terms of salary...Milwaukee is actually saving money with this deal. While Soriano is expensive, so is I-Rod and Hafner is no cheapy either. The $2million Milwaukee receives puts them over the top.

Moving on to what Milwaukee is receiving in compensation...

Soriano: Like him or hate him (yag), Soriano is clearly the best 2b in the game. 2b is a position with not many productive hitters, and Soriano is one. Last season his stats were as follows: .339 avg., 28 HR, 109 RBI, 55 2bs, 15 3bs, 134 Rs, 60 SB and a .986 OPS. Prolific numbers -- top in the game. While some believe that Soriano "sux" because his ratings are merely 7-7-7 he puts up the actual statistics to prove he is amazing. By this same logic Jack Cust who is 7-10-8 is one of the top 1b in the league. Jack Cust is hitting .207. I don't see how anyone can undermine the INSANE value of Soriano.

Meluskey: He is a very decent catcher for a cheap price. He can easily serve as a stopgap until Milwaukee's prospect catcher is ready. 'Nuff said.

Gamble: He is a very developed MLB ready prospect. While he may not be a top-tier prospect, he is certainly worthy of starting at the MLB level and plays a positive role for Milwaukee. You cannot discount Gamble from this equation.

Hennessey + Majewski: Yes, both are underveloped. But both have previously been 5.0s and have solid star rankings now too. Some of you don't like the star system, but these guys have good star values FOR A REASON. It is utterly unfair to just discount these two from the trade completely.

The overall point is thus: While it may not directly appear so to all, this trade serves both teams well and is not unfair. It should therefore not be vetoed.

Trade Council please consider everything I have to say and give my arguments a chance. Thank you.

Respectfully submitted,
Youk

yeszir
01-18-2005, 09:33 PM
That trade, as it stands, looks fine to me. In fact, it even looks to be in Milwaukee's favor, but considering who it is I dont think anyone will mind.

The only thing that has to be resolved is this tradability issue. So discuss that, and that only. And thank you, youk, for making a post that was informed, well thought out, and not retarded. Follow his model guys.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 09:36 PM
I have yet to see milwaukee defend it.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 09:37 PM
And your hafner argue he may be listed as a DH but he plays first

element1151
01-18-2005, 09:38 PM
I have yet to see Milwaukee say anything on the issue, right now it it youkilis rules vs. Yanks in 05

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 09:39 PM
Buchanon is tearing it up this year at 1b. Also, have you looked at milwaukee's rotation? Are you surprised he wants Pitching spects?

The reason milwaukee hasn't posted yet is because he is very busy and doesn't have the time to post. You have no idea how long it took us to consumate this trade.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 09:41 PM
Soriano has very little eye and with 7 contact and what 3 eye I wouldn't expect a repeat of last season. A second basemen for 12.5 mil is Arod kind of money. I expect Soriano to hit .270 at best.

Yanks in 05
01-18-2005, 09:41 PM
Can I post a response or is this TC limited?

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 09:41 PM
That trade, as it stands, looks fine to me. In fact, it even looks to be in Milwaukee's favor, but considering who it is I dont think anyone will mind.

The only thing that has to be resolved is this tradability issue. So discuss that, and that only. And thank you, youk, for making a post that was informed, well thought out, and not retarded. Follow his model guys.

BUMP.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 09:44 PM
Can I post a response or is this TC limited?
BUMP I say the thread be out of the eyes of the public.

yeszir
01-18-2005, 09:46 PM
We're bumping a 5 minute old conversation? Why?

And I say again, I dont think Milwaukee needs to argue anything now. As I see it, this is a relatively fair trade. The main issue is, again, whether Soriano is tradeable.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 09:47 PM
Here I want to organize my thoughts I'll give you my reasons soon....

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 09:50 PM
When i said "BUMP" i meant i wanted to bump your (yeszir) post.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 09:52 PM
C, Ivan Rodriguez (4.5 gold, $7million)
DH, Travis Hafner (4.5 gold, $4.2million)

Texas sends:

2b, Alfonso Soriano (4.0 gold, $12.5 million)
SP, Brad Hennessey (4.5 blue, MLC)
SP, Jerome Gamble (3.5 blue, MLC

That was the original trade you have added more now. He hasn't confirmed that this trade:
Milwaukee sends:

C, Ivan Rodriguez (4.5 gold, $7million)
DH, Travis Hafner (4.5 gold, $4.2million)

Texas sends:

2b, Alfonso Soriano (4.0 gold, $12.5 million)
C, Mitch Meluskey (2.5 gold, $500K)
SP, Brad Hennessey (4.0 blue, MLC)
SP, Jerome Gamble (3.5 blue, MLC)
RP Gary Majewski (3.5 blue, MLC)
$2million

you can't argue for a trade that hasn't happened yet.

Yanks in 05
01-18-2005, 09:52 PM
Ok heres my opinion on the deal, even if it will go through or not. Soriano may be the most overated player in the league, look at those ratings, 77734, He has absolutely no eye which sorta puts power to waste and strikes out way too much. Milwaukee has a solid infield. Plus Hafner has a 9 GLOVE AT 1B! Dont say hes just a DH! Pudge is the best catcher in the game. HAFNER IS A 91,0,8,7,6. He is better then Soriano and cheaper and a better fielder! Also dont give me hes getting younger, HAFNER IS YOUNGER THEN SORIANO! Yes he loses money but of course you will trading 2 for 1 and he barely loses any. Even if the trade does go through those are just my thoughts on it. Not to add that Soriano is overpaid by 5 mil. Also Huchinson will be the next bedard, a 1.0 , he will be in AAA his whole life.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 09:59 PM
QUOTE by Yanks in 05:

"Also Huchinson will be the next bedard, a 1.0 , he will be in AAA his whole life."

END QUOTE


Who?

Yanks in 05
01-18-2005, 10:02 PM
My fault, Henessy

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:04 PM
Once again...as instructed by yeszir: we should only be discussing whether or not Soriano can be traded. If yes, the trade goes through.

Shadow29
01-18-2005, 10:16 PM
Well even with the rule stated by ACL, there was a rule set up in the VERY beginning stating that no FAs could be traded til June 1st. So basically you could jsut wait til then to do this trade and everyhting would be ok.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:17 PM
I am under the impression that the rule said after the "beginning of the season" these FAs could be traded.

yeszir
01-18-2005, 10:20 PM
I didnt mean that the fairness of the trade cannot be disputed. If you want to, by all means, dispute the fairness of the trade if you see fit.

I was just under the impression that the soriano issue was a bigger deal is all.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:31 PM
Can we please bring this to a vote between:

Yagmaster, Radgeta, Sandman, Yeszir, Gertie + CalvnHobs

??

Gertie
01-18-2005, 10:37 PM
I don't think I have a vote, because since I'm not on the trade council, apparently my opinion on this doesn't matter. But if I were to have a vote, I would say to let it through. Although Soriano is overpaid, he is performing above his ratings, something that players do all the time. Likewise, players perform well below their ratings as well. Soriano's been good all of last year and through the first month, and has been playing pretty well through the first month. I know some of the trade council guys have some sort of bias against Soriano, but he's a very good player, whether you like it or not. With all the additions Texas is making, I think that balances the trade out, at least to the extent that it's not vetoable.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:39 PM
Thank you Gertie. I was under the impression that with the departure of Noah, you had a TC vote.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 10:40 PM
with the leaving of noah it leave the council to 5 which could settle the matter.

Bonds*
01-18-2005, 10:45 PM
Soriano cannot be traded until June 1st.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 10:45 PM
pwn3d /\

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:47 PM
I would like to see the "When Soriano can be traded" vote, sepcifically which of the 5 voted that Soriano CAN be traded and which said he CANT.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 10:48 PM
I would like to see the "When Soriano can be traded" vote, sepcifically which of the 5 voted that Soriano CAN be traded and which said he CANT.
Are you going to cry about everything?

Bonds*
01-18-2005, 10:49 PM
"When Soriano can be traded".
June 15th, 2007.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:50 PM
No, im not crying. I would just like to see who voted for which. At least three of the five should feel Soriano cannot be traded until JUNE 1 for this ruling to be valid. I merely want to see who said this.

ALEX GONZALEZ!

I am obligated to remind the group: Alex Gonzalez has been signed as FA this offseason, traded, and it was processed. Nobody raised a stink then. Some of you may not love me, but the point really is infragable. Because he was traded you MUST treat other FAs the same exact way.

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 10:51 PM
Radgeta votes~ Bonds* is doing the sim. He just told you what he was doing about it and if your not crying your pouting.

yeszir
01-18-2005, 10:53 PM
I vote that Sori can't get traded. There's your three. Me, Bonds, Radgeta. Ok, consider the matter over and done with.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:54 PM
So Radgeta...You voted that Soriano should not be allowed to be traded until June 1 (despite Alex Gonzalez doing so)?

Radgeta
01-18-2005, 10:55 PM
So Radgeta...You voted that i'm a complete child and need to grow up?
Yes, I believe this should be moved to fights and crap now.

youkilis rules
01-18-2005, 10:55 PM
Fine. Ding Dong discussion dead. I expect this trade to be processed with the June 1st simm. I can't believe you guys processed Gonzalez and Soriano. Utterly inexplicable.

Gertie
01-18-2005, 10:58 PM
Sorry guys, but he has a point: you can't just let one trade go through that directly challenges the rule you're enforcing now and not let this one. Either cancel the Gonzalez trade (and any other that might have involved FAs) along with this one, or challenge this based on fairness, not the no-trade rule. I know you guys don't like Texas, but you can't just make one ruling when you've overturned it previously.