Who is this Barry Bonds guy?

[VAredsox]

I just got done watching Barry Bonds' spring training press conference. Hmmm...let's see. Barry says people don't know him. Well, I used to know who Barry Bonds was before his head grew from the size of a pea to a watermelon. I used to know who Barry was before it turned into him against the world. Barry seems to not know how to handle all the pressure that comes with being the so-called "Greatest Baseball Player Ever" (not my personal opinion by far). I just wonder how long Barry can hide under this rock before it finally crushes him. He says he isn't racist, arrogant, or egotistical. I haven't seen anything but this side of Barry. Hopefully he will soon break the all-time homerun record and retire shortly after.....C'mon Barry, hit another long ball.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I agreed with what he said in his press conference. The media overdoes it with the steriods issue, and they need to leave it alone. He is right, they do lie. He is also right about how it is harder for him to get accepted because he is black and about to pass Babe Ruth. That statement can always be counteracted by stating that HAnk Aaron is black and is the all time home run king, but honestly, Babe Ruth still gets talked about more and Hank Aaron never seems to get what he deserves. I also have respect for Barry, and i don't care if he used steriods. Steriods won't help your hand and eye coordination. Steriods have never been found to add power. It's all about contact. Give some little guy like pokey steriods and he won't hit .330, he'll still hit .220. he may hit 7 instead of 5 homeruns, maybe. Bonds does not need an asterisk by his name.

[sarasoxfan]

barry bonds is black??

who gives a shit, he's an asshole black or white.
That press conference reminded me of another who guy who holds press conferences and gets mad at questions he doesnt want to answer and doesnt really answer anything either--oh, except when he lies.

The guy hit 46 home runs once before 199 and hit 40 only twice before that time. He is cheater and liar.

Hank Aaron had more class in his batting glove than barry could ever dream of having.
Whether you think steriod use is overblown or not is irrelevent. It is against the rules and he cheated--

The eye hand theory is a nice try but it's irrelevent also--the fact is they can all hit and cheating adds footage to their hits. He is just a baseball player and a good one, but he is an egotistical cock and whether he's black or white--I think he is a sorry human being who has become so full of himself he can rationalize cheating to further his achievements..I dont think joe would want him as a friend and I know I dont.

[yeszir]

He really came across as an idiot in that press conference. I used to be on the "Barry is OK" side of the fence, but I'm finding myself on the other side as more stuff piles up against him.

[sarasoxfan]

yeszir--I got an e-mail from peggy sue and she even hates barry...

[yeszir]

yeszir--I got an e-mail from peggy sue and she even hates barry...
Yea? She doesn't talk to me anymore after all that slobber (http://www.talksox.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32126&postcount=22)

[sarasoxfan]

unfortunately that slobber disfugured the right side of her face and she also contracted malaria from your spittle.

plastic surgery and years of delousing now have helped her regain her place in society..she's still mad at you though.


i should fix her up with joe.

[Sizzlin22]

He's a moron all that just further proved what i already knew.

[sarasoxfan]

a moron, that's a compliment...what a douche bag. Fuck him..

here's a wonderful observation out of the globe (note: it's not formthe new york post)

Barry Bonds said, "Babe Ruth ain't black, either. I'm black. Blacks, we go through a little bit more." Is that supposed to mean that Barry had it tougher growing up than the Babe? Whoa. Barry was pampered from birth, the child of a millionaire big league ballplayer. He lived in the finest homes and hotels, traveled first class, and used the best equipment. The Babe grew up over a barroom and later lived in an orphanage.

scumbag, pompous freak....Him and alice should get together....

[ahhchon]

I agreed with what he said in his press conference. The media overdoes it with the steriods issue, and they need to leave it alone. He is right, they do lie. He is also right about how it is harder for him to get accepted because he is black and about to pass Babe Ruth. That statement can always be counteracted by stating that HAnk Aaron is black and is the all time home run king, but honestly, Babe Ruth still gets talked about more and Hank Aaron never seems to get what he deserves. I also have respect for Barry, and i don't care if he used steriods. Steriods won't help your hand and eye coordination. Steriods have never been found to add power. It's all about contact. Give some little guy like pokey steriods and he won't hit .330, he'll still hit .220. he may hit 7 instead of 5 homeruns, maybe. Bonds does not need an asterisk by his name.

pretty much right on the nail with the exception of being stronger. steriods DO make you stronger as long as you have a good workout. there are many types of steroids, the kinds body builders take to increase muscle mass to an insane level and the kind bonds uses to speed recovery, therefore also increasing muscle mass and therefore being stronger while not sacrificing as much mobility.

either way you look at it bonds is a monster, w/o roids he's a monster, with roids he's a monster. steroids didn't help bonds hit 700 as much as the media proclaims. the only thing i can see steroids doing for bonds is providing longevity. i think he's just that special case who peeks later in his career. the average player might not peak until his mid-late 20's and decline in his 30's but that doesn't mean everyone is like that. bonds is a student of the game and gets better and better. one thing that hasn't gotten better is his relationships with the media and how the communicates, i really think that's what kills him.

no matter what people say the past few seasons from bonds have absolutely been amazing, most definately the most feared hitter pitchers could possibly face, there is no arguement against that. ruth was good, but put him in todays game and he would make nixon look like bonds.

facts are facts, he took steroids to increase his longevity, i'm not saying that i would too but i can see where he's coming from. you gotta look at both sides of things.

ie: people who kill minks for a living, some people find that it is insanely cruel and wish death upon fur farmers, look at their side of things. either kill minks and feed your family or not kill minks and don't feed your family.

john

[sarasoxfan]

I dont feel like arguing with you any more but I dont understand the mink reference--expect I'm sure Barry has a mink coat.

this artcile sus up what i have siad all along. He's a monster alright an egotistical one.


Bonds' late career surge has had other causes, from better bats to a greater uppercut in his swing. But I've been disappointed at some of the efforts from otherwise reasonable people to obscure the fact that Bonds' increased strength has had an impact on his unprecedented late-30s power surge.

I meant to get to this when it ran in mid-December: the New York Times editorial by Will Carroll of the Baseball Prospectus (discussed here on his blog). I like and respect Carroll from his work at BP, but the Times piece has some serious issues. One is the point I make above: Carroll essentially implies that he is agnostic on whether strength helps with power hitting, contrary to 85 years' experience:

[W]e have little or no idea what these drugs accomplish. Do stronger players hit the ball farther, swing the bat quicker or throw the ball harder? Does using steroids reduce fatigue so that they can do any of those things more effectively than "clean" players?
While there is no doubt that these chemicals are effective at their stated goal, albeit with significant complications, the question of how their effects manifest themselves in a baseball game has not been answered. There are no credible studies that connect drug use to improved performance, nor any that determine what cost these athletes may be paying.


Much more problematically, Carroll uses some seriously misguided examples to imply to the Times' readers that Bonds' power surge is not so unprecedented:


It is true that Bonds's performance over what many would expect to be the twilight of his career has been incredible. Instead of a slow decline as he approached 40, Bonds has done what can only now be described as superhuman. . . . The raw numbers, however, only reflect his increased home-run production; they do not say whether he hits more homers that fly significantly farther.

What of this late-career surge? Certainly we can point to that with an accusing finger, sure that Bonds's numbers in the record books have been written with some "cream" or "clear" substance. It's much easier to point than to find facts.

According to Clay Davenport, a researcher at Baseball Prospectus, Hank Aaron's best year for home runs - when he had the most homers per at bat - was 1973, when he was 39. His second best was in 1971, at age 37. Willie Stargell had his best seasons after age 37. Carlton Fisk put his best rate in the books when he was 40. Even Ty Cobb had his best home run rate at age 38, though the end of the dead-ball era helped that. It is not uncommon, according to Mr. Davenport, for a slugger to change his mechanics as he ages, swinging for the fences as his ability to run the bases declines.


These are terribly bad examples. First of all, Aaron in 1973, Stargell in 1978 and 1979 and Fisk in 1988 all had one thing in common: none of them were full-time, 500+ at bat players any longer, as they'd been in their primes. It's a lot easier for an older player to improve his production if he has a third to half of the season to rest as opposed to the years when he was playing every day, a fact that has absolutely zero to do with Barry Bonds.

Let's take Stargell first, as he's the most egregious example. Willie Stargell's career best slugging percentages, both absolutely and relative to the league, came at the ages of 26, 31, and 33, well within the normal range. Stargell's home run rate improved slightly in 1978-79, at age 38 and 39, but his doubles - also a key power stat - dropped off sharply from 43 in 1973 to 18 and 19 in 1978 and 1979. Was he really hitting for more power? Also, Stargell had another thing going for him: while he wasn't, strictly speaking, platooned (his backup, John Milner, was also lefthanded), the decline in his playing time allowed him to see a much more favorable mix of pitchers: Stargell had 30.5% of his at bats against lefties in 1978 and 30.7% in 1979, as opposed to 39.5% in 1971 and 33.1% in 1973. For a guy with Stargell's big platoon splits, that's a significant advantage.

Then there's Aaron. If you know the game's history, you already know that Aaron's late-career power surge was an illusion created by the improved offensive conditions of the 1970s as opposed to the 1960s, combined with his move in 1966 into homer-friendly Fulton County Stadium and out of pitcher-friendly Milwaukee County. Aaron hit 52 homers on the road and 37 at home in 1962-63; in 1971 and 1973, those figures were more than reversed to 55 at home and 32 on the road. But it doesn't stop there; with just 392 at bats in 1973 at age 39, the right-handed Aaron saw 44.4% of his at bats against left-handed pitching, up from 30.9% in 1971 and 26.5% as a full-time player in 1969.

Then there's Fisk, whose "best" home run season was 253 at bats in 1988. Do I really need to explain why a catcher might hit better playing half the time? And yes, the right-handed Fisk faced lefties 36.5% of the time in 1988, compared to 22.9% in his actual best season, 1977.

(Ty Cobb, whose career high in home runs was 12 but whose career high in slugging average was at age 24, is not even worthy of discussing at length).

None of these guys - indeed, no other player in baseball history - compares remotely to what Barry Bonds has done, and it does no service to the debate to pretend otherwise. Prior to 2000, Bonds was 34 years old and had a career slugging percentage of .559, with his two best slugging percentages (.677 and .647) coming at age 28 and 29. Since then, he has slugged .781, a 40% improvement on his career average and a 15% improvement over a five-year stretch compared to his career best season. Neither Carroll nor Davenport could find an example anywhere, certainly not outside of guys who straddled the arrival of the lively ball in the 1920s, of an established player who had anything like a 40% improvement in his power numbers from age 35 to 39. (Bonds has also batted .358 over the past three years, compared to batting above .320 just once through age 35, also nothing like a normal aging pattern).

Carroll's argument would have been better served by recognizing the fact that what Bonds has done is totally unprecedented and clearly not unrelated to his dramatic improvement in physical strength in his late 30s. Pretending otherwise does no one any good.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

ahhchon, i agree with your posts completly.

And let me add something to this, the reason why Bonds can come accross as an asshole is because he doesn't know how to deal with the media, plain and simple. not everyone wants to constantly be asked the same question over and over everyimte they are seen. i can totally understand why he would get the way he does at the press. they speculate on him and fuel controversey. he never seemed like an asshole to me, just someone who is tired of putting up with shit.

[yeszir]

ie: people who kill minks for a living, some people find that it is insanely cruel and wish death upon fur farmers, look at their side of things. either kill minks and feed your family or not kill minks and don't feed your family.

john
Are you saying that without steroids Barry Bonds wouldn't be able to feed his family? If we're saying outlandish things, then, if anything, Barry Bonds and his steroid use is preventing other people from feeding their families. He's hoarding all the money while the other, non-abusers, are left with their pathetic 3 million, non-homerun hitting contracts.

[yankeessuck013]

anyone have the actual transcript of barry bonds* press conference? please post

[sarasoxfan]

here's an excerpt:

Reporter: good morning mr. bonds
Bonds: fuck you
Reporter #2: are taking steriods cheating
Bonds: what's cheating?
Reporter #1: Did you take steriods
Bonds; Go fuck yourself
Reporter #2" answer the question
Bonds; I did, next question..and go fuck yourself.
Reporter #2: do you know any players who took steriods
Bonds: Why are you asking me that, because I'm black? fuck you

[yankees_nation]

you're all a bunch of racists

[RedSox4538]

you're all a bunch of racists

Why? I don't see anything that would prove that they are.

Please jump off that cliff I was telling you about.

[yankees_nation]

Why? I don't see anything that would prove that they are.

Please jump off that cliff I was telling you about.


could you mapquest the cliff for me? The NorthEast is kinda flat

[Sox fan in Tex]

I'll meet you in Arkansas then Yankee Nation. I'll then let RedSox4538 do the honors of pushing you off...

http://www.arkansas.com/images/wallpaper/apt_w_wint02_cliff_whitpt_lg.jpg

[ahhchon]

Are you saying that without steroids Barry Bonds wouldn't be able to feed his family? If we're saying outlandish things, then, if anything, Barry Bonds and his steroid use is preventing other people from feeding their families. He's hoarding all the money while the other, non-abusers, are left with their pathetic 3 million, non-homerun hitting contracts.

c'mon yeszir, i thought you were better than that. yes, if you take my little paragraph it sure sounds like that, but that's not what i'm saying. take it with the paragraph before it. i'm just saying that people should try to see both sides of things. no, i'm not saying he should have taken steroids but i can see why he did. i mean, who doesn't want to be the best? when you have as much money as bonds what more could you want? he wants the title of greatest player who has ever lived. granted he COULD (imo) have done it without steroids (we'll never really know) but now he'll forever go down as mr. barroids.

i honestly think the bonds thing is blown out of proportions. he's obviously a great baseball player and obviously can do it without roids. i feel that steroids provided him with greater longevity rather than greater ability to hit the ball. i personally don't believe steroids can help you walk 180+ times and k under 100 times during the course of one season, that stuff takes some serious skill. having larger muscles do not increase the chances of someone hitting a baseball, nor does it increase the ability to hit a baseball. larger muscles help increase the distance a baseball is hit and increase the ability to hit the ball harder ( therefore increasing distance).. either way you look at it steroids helped bonds hit more homers. his ability to actually make contact with the baseball is the reason why he's so damn good.

the media doesn't help the guy. guys like dan shittessy live off this stuff. lets think, would they rather talk about ozzie smith retiring or barry bonds on steriods? bonds on steriods obviously. it's an eye catcher and a money maker. people can judge all they want but as much as i don't like the fact that barry has done roids i don't think he's a bad person or any of the things some people have said. all these people who think to know barry's character etc. personally i would be pretty annoyed with reporters hounding me and asking me the same questions 50 times a day. hell i get annoyed when asked the same question twice. like you were always taught as a child, don't be so quick to judge anything. professional atheletes are humans just like you and me, they don't have to live certain standards so kids can use them as role models, they are human and make mistakes just like you and i. have you fully admitted to the public every mistake you have made? everyone has deep dark secrets, imagine yours was exposed to the world and reporters bugged you everyday.. i'm not even sure how i would react...

john

p.s.- i'm not looking to start any arguements, it's late, i've been studying all day, this was just me rambling just to get my mind off of school .