lowe and behold pedro is off his game too

[sarasoxfan]

I dont know about you guys, but I feel like every team we face scores off us in the first couple of innings. And have to get caught up. Is there something Wallace is or isnt doing to help these guys with preparing for a game. I just dont know. I am also
getting a famliar knot in my stomach about Lowe and Pedro. These guys just dont seem to be overpowering anybody, That at-bat last where Pedro took 15 pitches to stirke that guy out. Pathetic. Pedro has become so friggin fragile. When he gets hit by a a ball up the middle I see base hit and a stint on the disabled right around the corner. I am so sick of pitch counts. I know we have 30_+ wins, but our starters aint living up to their ability and that you cant blame on Trot and Nomar.

Someone help me out here. I have that knot in my stomach...

[GrassInZimsTeeth]

No one can convince me that there hasn't been something wrong with Pedro since spring training. A fastball blinking at 90 is like BP for guys like Vlad. Petey was making excuses before the game last night, saying "boo hoo, the weather... boo hoo, my body reacts to the weather... booo hooo hooo"

Weather's pretty damn nice in Southern Cali mijos amigos. Explain the 7 earned ones off that.

The boy ain't right.

[kyle5000]

thank god we got curt

[yeszir]

Originally posted by kyle5000@Jun 3 2004, 06:30 PM
thank god we got curt
Welcome to the site kyle.

Anyways, I doubt Pedro has a serious problem on his hands. Hopefully he'll overcome it by his next start. It's a bit unfair to judge him against what many consider to be the top team in the majors.

[67Bleachers]

Tough question.

But before addressing it, a comment on today's Boston radio chatter and the general RSN reaction about our pitching woes...

All I can say is that I am always very interested in learning fans' reactions to our Bosox; to me, fellow-fan reaction is important to hear and I often relate players' daily performances with my own daily sales results on the job.

Like many of you out there and like any professional baseball player, I have to put a number up on the board every day and for all to see. After listening to this day's RSN radio comments, I am glad that most of the callers are not my boss.

Bearing that in mind, Lowe is a head case right now. I believe he can settle down. Unless he has detected some mechanical problems that Lowe has developed, the coach should concentrate on ways to get this man's competitive spirit firmed-up. This "man-child" mentality we see on the mound has to go. It's something Lowe can control.

In addition, Pedro is a very intelligent pitcher. He's lost his competitive edge with speed. His coach needs to continue working with him to bring his pitching intelligence to a new level. What is that? I do not know. That's their job to figure out. But Pedro is a smart and cagey personality, (with us fans too).... he can fathom it. That's something Pedro can control and hopefully get some help from a guy who I hear is one of the best pitching coaches in the business.

Next, that Vlad Guerrerro, (sp.) guy is from the Dominican and so is Enrique Wilson. Dominicans are not intimidated by Pedro. Think about it...if Al Gore were your next door neighbor when you were growing up and years later you were in a presidential debate with him would you answer him seriously when he threw you the pitch that he invented the internet? Or would you just just double over in laughter and then come up with your old neighborhood left uppercut and send him to the moon? That's that way we locals treat our locals.

Finally, I think that Baltimore and Anaheim batters were just plain-old more juiced-up, (on adrenelin that is), to beat us than our pitchers were to beat them. They wanted it more.

That's it from here. We'll come out of this. Don't trade Lowe. Don't place Pedro fifth in the rotation and geez, get that pitching coach two smart pills to take tonight and NOT call the bullpen in the morning!

[YanksHater213]

wow that was long, i dont think i could read the whole thing... lol

[yawkeyway]

In response to 67bleachers' post:

Bearing that in mind, Lowe is a head case right now. I believe he can settle down. Unless he has detected some mechanical problems that Lowe has developed, the coach should concentrate on ways to get this man's competitive spirit firmed-up. This "man-child" mentality we see on the mound has to go. It's something Lowe can control.
I'm really unsure if Lowe will ever be able to settle down. Once you get on sox fans' bad sides you really can't win 'em over again unless you are stellar again (evidence for this is in him pitching a no-no after completely sucking the year before). To say that he'll bounce back from a 6.84 ERA is maybe giving him too much credit. He'll never be the #2 starter again, barring any major surprises. I don't think the "man-child", as you call it, will ever go away. Mental problems are much harder to crack than mechanical, and I think Lowe is a lost cause. I'm just glad we didnt sign him for 9 million as we had proposed. :unsure:

In addition, Pedro is a very intelligent pitcher. He's lost his competitive edge with speed. His coach needs to continue working with him to bring his pitching intelligence to a new level. What is that? I do not know. That's their job to figure out. But Pedro is a smart and cagey personality, (with us fans too).... he can fathom it. That's something Pedro can control and hopefully get some help from a guy who I hear is one of the best pitching coaches in the business.
Pedro is, without a doubt, the most intelligent pitcher in the game. He could afford to lose another 2-3 MPH on his fastball and still get hitters out (although not at the rate he did 3 or 4 years ago, but thats understandable). Trying to improve on his intelligence is like trying improve something that is already perfect. Sure he could learn to shut his mouth at times ( :D ), but as far as baseball smarts goes, he's pretty much tops.
And finally:

Next, that Vlad Guerrerro, (sp.) guy is from the Dominican and so is Enrique Wilson. Dominicans are not intimidated by Pedro. Think about it...if Al Gore were your next door neighbor when you were growing up and years later you were in a presidential debate with him would you answer him seriously when he threw you the pitch that he invented the internet? Or would you just just double over in laughter and then come up with your old neighborhood left uppercut and send him to the moon? That's that way we locals treat our locals.
This is something that I had never really thought about, but really is puzzling. Dominicans tend to own Pedro. But, fun fact: Pedro owns manny (13 k's in 29 at bats, and he's held him to a .138 average). Maybe thats why Manny wanted to come to the sox, so he wouldn't have to deal with Pedro anymore! Maybe its because they've spoken to him, since they share common roots and such, and know how to handle him. Maybe its in their blood?

Phew, my fingers hurt, but it was worth it. Good post 67blecahers!

[RedSoxRooter]

Pedro may be the smartest man on earth, but his body is no longer worth 15 million per year. I think it's a gamble at 12 million - or, hell 10. Too bad really.

[sarasoxfan]

I agree with you about Pedro. He is like an old sports car, verfy fragile, butr still sleek enough to drive around occasionally. Unfortunately, he just doesnt get the mileage he used too. I think with the dough we'd save from Pedro and Lowe we could get some kick ass kid to do the job. I hate to see Pedro go, though, I have visions of fat-ass clemens going on for another decade.

[67Bleachers]

Originally posted by YanksHater213@Jun 3 2004, 07:57 PM
wow that was long, i dont think i could read the whole thing... lol
Sorry Suck but I only get to visit this fine site once in a while. :(

And think about this...there's a possible plus side to long, boring posts you know...

If someone on this board is a student, maybe you (?), he/she can add my post to his/her summer reading list, do a book report on it, and get credit for reading a Greek tragedy...that's our Sox!

Signed, Evelyn Wood ;)

[yeszir]

Originally posted by 67Bleachers+Jun 4 2004, 05:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (67Bleachers @ Jun 4 2004, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-YanksHater213@Jun 3 2004, 07:57 PM
wow that was long, i dont think i could read the whole thing... lol
Sorry Suck but I only get to visit this fine site once in a while. :(

And think about this...there&#39;s a possible plus side to long, boring posts you know...

If someone on this board is a student, maybe you (?), he/she can add my post to his/her summer reading list, do a book report on it, and get credit for reading a Greek tragedy...that&#39;s our Sox&#33;

Signed, Evelyn Wood ;) [/b][/quote]
Hahaha, too true. "For my summer reading book, I chose a post on talksox.com"

Anyway, I like the long posts, good to read and fun to respond to (when I find the time). Keep &#39;em coming, your effort is not in vain&#33;

[67Bleachers]

Originally posted by yawkeyway@Jun 3 2004, 09:14 PM
I&#39;m...unsure...Lowe will...settle down... To say... he&#39;ll bounce back...is...giving him too much credit. He&#39;ll never be the #2 starter again...I don&#39;t think the "man-child"...will go away...Mental problems are much harder to crack...Lowe is a lost cause.... I&#39;m...glad we didnt sign him for 9 million.



Yawkeyway,

Your beliefs about D-Lowe have solid grounding, (sorry Pokey): His performances of late look like the Dow Jones Industrial chart from 1929-30.

And Peter Gammons, although he does not put it in as stong terms, agrees with you to some extent, (WEEI radio Thursday), that management may want to start shopping Lowe but not immediately.

For now and for THIS depression I think we should continue taking the long view.

And I say that because, (and in line with your historical/logical bent), as you zoom away from that Dow Jones chart of &#39;29-&#39;30 you start seeing some pretty amazing upturns in the bigger picture.

Thanks for all your good thoughts. Signed, Polly Anna(ish)

[JMDurron]

My thing with Lowe is that mental issues, however debilitating on the field at any given moment, can work themselves out for reasons that are in no way apparent to those on the outside looking in. At this point, we&#39;d get nothing in return for Lowe - a struggling (below replacement player level right now) pitcher looking for a payday after this season. Who would want to trade anything of value for him right now? I think we&#39;re better off holding onto him and seeing if he can straighten himself out. I have some measure of hope that Varitek and Schilling can pull him aside and maybe help this manchild grow up.

[TheFens]

I just heard from someone that Pedro has wrist inflammation, resulting from his last start. A wrist injury would explain a lot I guess. Doesn anyone have any official news on this?

[YanksHater213]

Originally posted by 67Bleachers+Jun 4 2004, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (67Bleachers @ Jun 4 2004, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-YanksHater213@Jun 3 2004, 07:57 PM
wow that was long, i dont think i could read the whole thing... lol
Sorry Suck but I only get to visit this fine site once in a while. :(

And think about this...there&#39;s a possible plus side to long, boring posts you know...

If someone on this board is a student, maybe you (?), he/she can add my post to his/her summer reading list, do a book report on it, and get credit for reading a Greek tragedy...that&#39;s our Sox&#33;

Signed, Evelyn Wood ;) [/b][/quote]
i think i will. you know i have to do a final report on a piece of writing. maybe ill do yours... lol

[yagmaster]

http://bostondirtdogs.com/2004/pedrobattercam.jpg

I love pedro but this was too funny not to put here.

[YanksHater213]

Originally posted by TheFens@Jun 5 2004, 11:36 AM
I just heard from someone that Pedro has wrist inflammation, resulting from his last start. A wrist injury would explain a lot I guess. Doesn anyone have any official news on this?
i would believe it because of his horrible pitching performance vs Anaheim

[yeszir]

Originally posted by yagmaster@Jun 5 2004, 12:39 PM
http://bostondirtdogs.com/2004/pedrobattercam.jpg

I love pedro but this was too funny not to put here.
Haha, bostondirtdogs rules.

[GreenMonsterSeats]

That&#39;s interesting. I have not seen anything, nor can find anything regarding the news about a wrist injury. I did see a Globe article where Pedro has been reviewing tape of his pitching and discovered what he thinks may be a flaw in his delivery and mechanics.

[roary]

Originally posted by GreenMonsterSeats@Jun 5 2004, 12:43 PM
That&#39;s interesting. I have not seen anything, nor can find anything regarding the news about a wrist injury. I did see a Globe article where Pedro has been reviewing tape of his pitching and discovered what he thinks may be a flaw in his delivery and mechanics.
A snippet from that article:

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- With the starting rotation mired in its worst slump of the season, Red Sox ace Pedro Martinez said last night he believes he has discovered a flaw in his delivery that could help restore his trademark excellence.
ADVERTISEMENT



Martinez has been studying videotape with the Sox staff, most notably pitching coach Dave Wallace.

"I think we found something mechanical that was wrong," Martinez said.

Martinez, who got tagged for seven runs on 11 hits, two walks, and a hit batsman over five innings against the Angels Wednesday in his latest bid to turn around his season, said he believes his right shoulder has been flying open in part because of a faulty leg kick.

"It&#39;s no big deal," he said, "but let&#39;s work on it and see if that&#39;s the reason."

Martinez is off to the roughest start in his seven seasons with the Sox. Though he is 5-3 and entered last night leading the American League in strikeouts, his ERA is 4.40, he has allowed 10 home runs (after surrendering only seven all last year), and opponents are hitting .258 against him, after hitting only .215 last year.

Martinez is scheduled to make his next start Tuesday against the Padres at Fenway Park, opposing David Wells, who is set to come off the disabled list that day for San Diego.

I think he&#39;s just saying it to appease the fans. I doubt something is wrong with his delivery. I&#39;m still not sure if hes just in a funk or if he&#39;s losing it for real this time.

[RedSoxNut04]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Jun 3 2004, 09:03 AM
That at-bat last where Pedro took 15 pitches to stirke that guy out.
Going into that game that guy had only 2 SO on the year. The least in the Majors.

[JMDurron]

Originally posted by RedSoxNut04+Jun 7 2004, 01:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RedSoxNut04 @ Jun 7 2004, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sarasoxfan@Jun 3 2004, 09:03 AM
That at-bat last where Pedro took 15 pitches to stirke that guy out.
Going into that game that guy had only 2 SO on the year. The least in the Majors. [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t care though, "Old Pedro" would have been throwing 94 MPH fastballs past him, as opposed to the 89 MPH fastballs he kept fouling off. There&#39;s no way he catches up to Pedro&#39;s normal heater.

[TheFens]

Originally posted by JMDurron+Jun 7 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JMDurron @ Jun 7 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by RedSoxNut04@Jun 7 2004, 01:52 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-sarasoxfan@Jun 3 2004, 09:03 AM
That at-bat last where Pedro took 15 pitches to* stirke that guy out.
Going into that game that guy had only 2 SO on the year. The least in the Majors.
I don&#39;t care though, "Old Pedro" would have been throwing 94 MPH fastballs past him, as opposed to the 89 MPH fastballs he kept fouling off. There&#39;s no way he catches up to Pedro&#39;s normal heater. [/b][/quote]
It&#39;s not his "normal" heater, its his "old" heater. We need to get used to the "new", downgraded Pedro, rather than comparing him to his former self. He most likely will never be that good again. So I guess we&#39;re just going to have to realize that 89 mph is what we should expect from him.

But I&#39;d sure hate to have another Roger Clemens on our hands.

[67Bleachers]

Originally posted by JMDurron@Jun 4 2004, 08:09 PM
I have some measure of hope that Varitek and Schilling can pull him aside and maybe help this manchild grow up.
Yes. I agree with you.

[67Bleachers]

Originally posted by YanksHater213@Jun 5 2004, 12:38 PM
If someone on this board is a student, maybe you (?), he/she can add my post to his/her summer reading list, do a book report on it, and get credit for reading a Greek tragedy...that&#39;s our Sox&#33;

Signed, Evelyn Wood ;)
i think i will. you know i have to do a final report on a piece of writing. maybe ill do yours... lol [/quote]
Alright&#33;&#33; And you&#39;re alright, Yanks Hater.

[67Bleachers]

Originally posted by yagmaster@Jun 5 2004, 12:39 PM
http://bostondirtdogs.com/2004/pedrobattercam.jpg

I love pedro but this was too funny not to put here.
One of the funniest, all-time posts at BDG&#39;s. I don&#39;t get the Reagan/Nancy photo of today though.