View Full Version : Kelly Shoppach
Zenny
06-16-2004, 08:00 PM
Kelly Shoppach
Born: March 29, 1980; Fort Worth, Texas
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 210
Bats: Right; Throws: Right
Acquired: Drafted in 2nd round, 2001 out of Baylor University
Shopp is an amazing defensive catcher and game-caller. Scouts are amazed by his skills behind the and especially by his strong arm and natural throwing ability. He's also a hard-worker and is constantly studying himself and opponents to improve his hitting and the pitching staff he has to handle.
On the offensive side, Shoppach walks a good deal and that should translate into a big-league OBP .100 points higher than his BA. He also has good power to all fields and should hit 20-25 homeruns at the big league level with a .450-.525 SLG% every year. He does have the tendency to strikeout, but it doesn't hamper his ability to make contact or drive the ball.
Estimated annual big league stats: .275/.400/.500/.900; 35 doubles, 25 homers, 85 RBI.
ETA: September call-up 2004, ready to start in 2005
Current stats at AAA Pawtucket: .242/.333/.419/.752; .38 (25/65) BB/K ratio; 9 2B, 8 HR, 33 RBI, 30 R.
Shopp had been awful up until mid-May, but his bat woke up and he began to take more pitches and adjust to the more advanced pitching. He has done several interviews where he stated that it is the first time in his career that he's actually had to make adjustments, but he is successfully doing so. He's hitting well over .300 in June and shows no signs of slowing down. His walk rate has tripled since the beginning of the season and he should finish somewhere near the estimated big-league stats above.
Shopp is the reason that Jason Varitek is expendible. He does everything Varitek does, will provide superior defense right from the get-go and has better long-term offensive upside. Not to mention the fact that he will cost 3% of what Varitek will make next season. It is time to make way for the future of this franchise and Kelly Shoppach should be a huge part of it.
TheFens
06-16-2004, 08:24 PM
This is my addition, a picture:
http://soxprospects.com/players/images/kellyshoppach.jpg
Zenny
06-16-2004, 09:03 PM
Thanks, I forgot about that part.
Zenny
06-16-2004, 09:09 PM
Shopp went 1-4 with a R, 2B and 2 K's tonight.
Daily Season Line Update: .242/.332/.421/.753; .37 (25/67) BB/K; 10 2B, 8 HR, 33 RBI, 31 R.
Zenny
06-17-2004, 12:10 PM
Royal Rooters' Interview with Shoppach:
RSN: Kelly, in a recent conversation with Baseball America’s Jim Callis, he told us he sees several similarities between Jason Varitek and yourself. Knowing that expectations for you are high, and that Tek’s contract is up after this season, do you feel a lot of pressure coming into 2004?
KS: I don’t look at it that way. Pressure is only what you make of it, and I just like to go out and play hard every day. The rest will take care of itself.
RSN: Kelly, what about your thoughts on Red Sox Nation?
KS: I grew up in Texas as a Rangers fan, but the game doesn’t mean as much down there. Texas is all about football -- New England is baseball.
RSN: What did you do this offseason?
KS: After the season ended I played in the Arizona Fall League. It was a great experience.
RSN: That would have put you in Arizona when the Sox were battling the Yankees in October. Where were you for game seven?
KS: I actually got home about midway through the game -- Pedro was still in. What I remember thinking at the end was that I couldn’t believe it -- I didn’t want to believe it. It was happening again.
RSN: Kelly, you’re going to get a chance to catch Frank Castillo in Pawtucket this summer. What can you learn from someone like him; a guy with 11 MLB seasons under his belt?
KS: A lot. You don’t spend as many years in the big leagues as he has without knowing how to pitch. I caught Frankie in spring training this past month, and it’s already been a great learning experience.
I'm very excited about his future in this franchise.
dirtdogman5
06-17-2004, 12:19 PM
Quick question, where do you find their stats for their latest game?
Zenny
06-17-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by dirtdogman5@Jun 17 2004, 12:19 PM
Quick question, where do you find their stats for their latest game?
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...oard.aspx?date= (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=milb-intl/scores/live/scoreboard.aspx?date=)
After the game is done, they post the box score and a log of the game, out by out.
Zenny
06-18-2004, 11:00 PM
Shoppach had a nice game for himself tonight; 2-3, 2B, HR, R, RBI.
Daily Season Line Update: .249/.339/.446/.785; .37 (25/67) BB/K ratio; 11 2B, 9 HR, 34 RBI, 32 R
I guarantee that his OPS will be just about or above .900 by the end of the season and he will be more than worthy of taking over next season's starting catching role.
Zenny
06-19-2004, 12:59 AM
I'm going to be at Monday night's PawSox game and I will be intently watching Kelly Shoppach behind and at the plate. He's been on fire since mid-May, hopefully he'll be able to keep it up (very likely).
Zenny
06-20-2004, 05:08 PM
Season line through Sunday: .245/.336/.450/.786; .37 (26/71) BB/K ratio; 11 2B, 10 HR, 36 RBI, 34 R
He's hitting a lot of homeruns, but he had three whiffs on Saturday night. No big deal.
Zenny
06-21-2004, 10:13 PM
Well, I got to watch Shopp in person today. He wasn't all that great, but he was solid. He played flawless defense throughout the game, but he wasn't overly tested.
He closed the second inning with a swinging whiff. On strike two, he let go of the bat and it went flying into the crowd. It was pretty funny.
In the fourth, he walked.
He ended the fifth-inning with a fly-out to center-field.
In the seventh, he hit a hot shot to the shortstop's right. He did a good job just to get the ball knocked down, but he should've caught it. It turned into a weird double-play ball.
Every single time he was up there, he always seemed to work the count. Even when he gets out, it always seemed to be at least 6 pitches into the at-bat.
Season Line: .241/.335/.443/.778; .38 (27/72) BB/K; 11 2B, 10 HR, 36 RBI, 35 R
Zenny
06-22-2004, 10:08 PM
Shoppach went 0-2 with a BB, HBP and K. He's finding ways to get on base, but he hasn't done so with the bat in the past two games. Season line: .239/.338/.439/.777; .38 (28/73) BB/K ratio; 11 2B, 10 HR, 36 RBI, 35 R
Zenny
06-24-2004, 09:17 PM
Similar box score to last night: 0-2, 2 BB, K. He's getting on base a lot, but he's hitless in his last three games.
Season Line: .237/.340/.435/.775; .41 (30/74) BB/K ratio; 11 2B, 10 HR, 36 RBI, 35 R
Zenny
06-24-2004, 09:21 PM
The OBP 100 points higher than the BA and the SLG% 200 points higher than the BA are very encouraging. That is usually a sign of a good all-around hitter, even when the average is struggling. He needs to get a little work in to cut down the K's and get that average up and things should be good for Shopp. That should come before the AAA All-Star Game in July. He's going to have a monster second-half, hopefully all of it with the Sox.
I hate to say it to all the 'Tek fans out there, but the more Shopp walks and the better defense he plays, the less and less likely that Varitek returns, especially given his contractual demands and how he hasn't backed it up with performance.
Zenny
06-25-2004, 10:41 PM
Shopp got a well-deserved day of rest today. Jamie Brown responded by pitching an awful game with Andy Dominique doing the receiving. Brown had a sub-3.00 ERA prior to tonight's outing, with much of that due to Shoppach's ability to call games. Tonight, he gave up 7 runs in only 3 or 4 innings. This kid calls a good game, believe me.
Shopp needed the day off. He always seems to respond very well after getting a break or when given the opportunity to DH.
Tek04
06-26-2004, 11:55 AM
I dont see him in the redsox organzation very long...we are trading him sometime this season...we dont need another catcher as long as we resign varitek
Zenny
06-26-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Tek04@Jun 26 2004, 12:55 PM
I dont see him in the redsox organzation very long...we are trading him sometime this season...we dont need another catcher as long as we resign varitek
Well, the sticking point is Varitek. He's a Boras client and his contractual demands are rediculous, something like $10 million per season. I guarantee that Sox won't go over $6 million per for a catcher. If Varitek had every intention of returning, he would've re-signed already; he can override his agent. But, you know what? He hasn't done that, which says to me that he has every intention of getting top dollar on the market with no hometown discount for the Red Sox. I think he's as good as gone and you can take that to the bank, just like Varitek will.
I wouldn't be so sure about Shoppach being traded. The Sox don't want Garcia and I don't see them making any huge deals that would require a top prospect. Any trade this season is probably going to involve guys in A-ball, AA at the most. Guys like Chris Smith, Jose Vaquedano, Chad Spann; the younger guys.
Zenny
06-26-2004, 09:48 PM
Well, Shopp went 1-4 with 2 K's tonight against the pretty good Richmond Braves pitching staff.
Season Line: .237/.339/.431/.771; .39 (30/76) BB/K ratio; 11 2B, 10 HR, 36 RBI, 35 R
Zenny
06-27-2004, 02:41 PM
Shopp went 1-4 today, no whiffs, no walks.
Season Line: .237/.337/.428/.765; .39 (30/76) BB/K ratio; 11 2B, 10 HR, 36 RBI, 35 R
Zenny
06-28-2004, 10:15 PM
Shoppach went 2-5 with a double, 2 RBI and a K. One of those hits, a single, came off Mets' top prospect Royce Ring, a major-league ready, hard throwing lefty. That is always a promising sign.
I still believe going from AA to AAA is harder than going from AAA to the bigs, in terms of the quality of the overall pitching. If a player is good at AA, he's going to get the bump to AAA, thus leveling the field of play. But, if a player is good at AAA, there isn't always a spot for him on the big league club, a huge example of that being Brian Daubach. The player still continues to pitch or hit well. There are a lot of big-league quality players at the AAA level, which leads me back to my original conclusion and provides some insight in to why Shoppach is struggling a bit. Feel free to question me on that. I love a good debate.
I still fully expect Shoppach's OPS to be around or above .900 by the time the season is done. He will always have that funny habit of accidentally letting go of the bat and it goes flying into the stands.
Season line: .241/.339/.432/.771; .39 (30/77) BB/K ratio; 12 2B, 10 HR, 38 RBI, 35 R
elsrbueno
06-30-2004, 08:02 AM
Good to hear Kelly Shoppach's doing OK.
How does he handle pitchers?
Zenny
06-30-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by elsrbueno@Jun 30 2004, 09:02 AM
How does he handle pitchers?
Fantastic. They all love the game he calls. That also may have contributed to his offensive struggles early on. He may have been spending too much time working with the pitching staff and not focusing on his offense. He's definitely coming around, though.
elsrbueno
06-30-2004, 12:09 PM
Zenny,
You seem to be VERY high on Shoppach. Will there be ANY dropoff from V-Tek this year, and Shoppach next year?
Do you see any reason to hold onto V-Tek? (possibly as a mentor to Shopp?)
Zenny
06-30-2004, 01:23 PM
I'm high on Shoppach and with good reason.
Next season, Shoppach will already play better defense than Varitek is now. Scouts say that he has the best arm and release point they have seen in a long time from a catcher. He also works hard with the pitching staff and has good defensive capabilites.
Granted, a rookie can't be expected to come in and immediately have rediculous offensive seasons. Next season, I see a .260/.350/.450/.800 with 15 or so homeruns. That is fantastic for a rookie catcher and is what Varitek is pretty much on pace for with the way he's playing. Eventually, Shoppach should hit .280/.375/.525/.900 with 25 homeruns when he enters his prime.
Bringing back Varitek for the sake of bringing back Varitek just seems crazy at this point. He wants too much money and that whole "mentor" thing is overrated. Shoppach will likely receive a September call-up to work with Varitek anyway and he already spent a good deal of time with him in Spring Training this season. Next season, Mirabelli can fill in the few blanks on the defensive end and Papa Jack will be there to help with his hitting.
Zenny
06-30-2004, 09:04 PM
A fantastic article about Kelly Shoppach from Baseball America's Daily Dish:
PAWTUCKET, R.I.--Kelly Shoppach is a throwback. He runs everything out, doesn't believe in showing up an opponent, and given a choice would play his entire career with one team. Those are qualities akin to an earlier era, but Shoppach wears them as proudly as he does his 2004 Pawtucket Red Sox uniform.
"It's how I was raised," he said. "It's the only way I know how to play."
A second-round pick out of Baylor in 2001 after an All-America season, Shoppach has been his club's player of the year in each of his two professional seasons, at Sarasota and Portland. He is considered the heir apparent to the Red Sox catching job--if he isn't traded first.
"It's special if you can play your whole career with one team," Shoppach opined, though that belief has come under duress as of late. Mentioned in trade rumors, most recently involving Carlos Beltran, he understands that is a part of the game he has little control over.
"I'd love a chance to be loyal to the organization," he said, "but they need to be loyal to me, too. I've known since the day I signed that trades are a part of the business, but hopefully I can spend my entire career in a Red Sox uniform."
With Jason Varitek eligible for free agency after the 2004 season, Shoppach is a valuable commodity beyond his trade value. While other organizations covet him, the Red Sox realize he would be a capable replacement should Varitek sign elsewhere.
"He projects as a plus-power hitter," manager Buddy Bailey said. "Defensively he's already major league ready. He has the ability to block balls and control a running game. His arm strength and release are both above-average."
Farm director Ben Cherington echoes Bailey.
"He brings a good package to the table," Cherington said. "He has a chance to be a quality performer at a premium position at the major league level."
Cherington also likes the attitude Shoppach carries onto the field. "He cares more about winning than personal accomplishments," he added. "He can have a good day, but if the team loses he isn't happy."
Shoppach commands the respect of his pitching staff, an attribute he understands the importance of. "Defense is the most important job for a catcher," he said. "And that includes their relationship with pitchers."
Teammate Frank Castillo, a 12-year major league veteran, is a believer. "He's calling some good games," Castillo said. "The guys on the staff trust him."
Offense is where Shoppach's game is a work in progress. He was hitting just .241-10-38 in 220 at-bats, with 77 strikeouts. "He's still experiencing some growing pains," Bailey said. "He has tremendous power to all fields, but his professional ABs aren't very high for someone playing at this level."
His power was on display earlier this season, when Shoppach hit one of the longest home runs ever at Louisville Slugger Field. His blast traveled an estimated 460 feet, and showed the kind of home run stroke that may someday bring the Fenway faithful to their feet.
While his power and defense are notable, Shoppach's old-school approach sets him apart.
"Hustle and hard work never go into a slump," he said. "I believe in going all out, all the time." This includes running to first base on a walk, a trait that brings good-natured ribbing from his teammates. "Sure we get on him about that," lefthander Phil Seibel said, "but we know that's how Shop plays, and we all appreciate that his effort is never less than a hundred percent."
These are labels that fit this hardnosed product of Texas. Bailey refers to him as "a gentleman," and there is no better way to describe his approach than "throwback." Assessing his future, there's one more label that's fitting: Kelly Shoppach is a "keeper." He hopes the Boston organization feels the same way.
It is official. I will become a fan of whatever team Kelly Shoppach plays for next season, even if it isn't the Red Sox. I hope to God Theo gives this kid every chance to be this team's starting catcher.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/2004dish.html
Zenny
07-01-2004, 10:50 PM
Shopp went 0-3 with an RBI today. I mostly attribute the rustiness to Buddy Bailey sitting Shoppach for two straight games because of Ellis Burks and Bill Mueller rehabbing and George Lombard being called up. He's still making good contact, though and is drastically reducing the number of strikeouts over the past month or so.
Zenny
07-03-2004, 07:51 PM
Yesterday, Shopp went 1-4 with a solo HR and 2 K's. Today, he went 2-4 with a walk-off homerun in Pawtucket's 3-2 win. That's right, dingers in consecutive games.
Season Line: .242/.335/.450/.785; .38 (30/79) BB/K ratio; 12 2B, 12 HR, 41 RBI, 37 R
Zenny
07-04-2004, 09:58 PM
Shopp had an o'fer today; 0-4, BB, K.
Season Line: .238/.332/.443/.775; .39 (31/80) BB/K ratio; 12 2B, 12 HR, 41 RBI, 37 R
Zenny
07-05-2004, 01:51 PM
Just found this on the MLB.com website:
Kelly Shoppach, C
Shoppach, the Sox's first pick in the 2001 draft, will spend the year with Pawtucket as he prepares to possibly replace Jason Varitek in Boston. The Baylor product came back strong from a shoulder injury, with no signs of trouble once he returned behind the plate late last April. He's got a very good idea of what to do behind the plate, with a quick release and a firm grasp of game-calling. He's no slouch at bat, either, with raw power and the willingness to hit deep in the count. His leadership skills and take-charge nature leave little doubt about his ability to handle the responsibility of catching in a market like Boston. That means the organization will likely have little difficulty in letting Varitek go following the 2004 season.
Zenny
07-06-2004, 10:27 PM
Shoppach had a big game in the night-cap of the PawSox's doubleheader going 3-3 with two doubles and a single. You know how everyone is waiting for him to "really start hitting"? Homeruns in back to back games and then this 3-3 performance. I think he's coming around and that OPS is only 3 points under .800 and it is definitely on its way up.
Season Line: .248/.339/.458/.797; .39 (31/80) BB/K ratio; 14 2B, 12 HR, 41 RBI, 38 R
CrespoBlows
07-07-2004, 09:57 AM
Got a question for Zenny. Do you think Shoppach will get called up at all this year? If so, when?
Zenny
07-07-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Jul 7 2004, 10:57 AM
Got a question for Zenny. Do you think Shoppach will get called up at all this year? If so, when?
September call-up when the roster expands, most likely. I think they'll let him get regular work in, catching every day in Pawtucket until then. If the Sox have a comfortable lead in the WC (unlikely) he could get 2/5 of the starts in September to keep Tek fresh while Doug catches Wake.
Zenny
07-07-2004, 09:47 PM
Shoppach went 1-3 with a 2B and 2 K's tonight. The entire PawSox lineup only had 5 hits (3 belonged to Henri Stanley) so the fact that Shoppach could even hit the suddenly unhittable MudHens pitching staff is great. Go ahead, folks, take a look at the OPS. :D
Season Line: .249/.339/.461/.800; .38 (31/82) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 12 HR, 41 RBI, 39 R
Zenny
07-08-2004, 08:57 PM
Tough game for Shopp and the PawSox. He went 0-4 with a K and Mark Malaska gave up the game winning homerun in the ninth inning to lose 3-2. Another night in which nobody on the PawSox could really hit.
How dare Shoppach not get an extra-base hit for one of the few games this month! He sucks! We need Varitek and his declining bat speed and wonderful intangibles back for $30 million dollars over the next 3 years! Trade Shoppach for Ryan Langerhans! :rolleyes:
Season Line: .245/.335/.453/.788; .37 (31/83) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 12 HR, 41 RBI, 39 R
Tek04
07-08-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Zenny@Jul 8 2004, 09:57 PM
Tough game for Shopp and the PawSox. He went 0-4 with a K and Mark Malaska gave up the game winning homerun in the ninth inning to lose 3-2. Another night in which nobody on the PawSox could really hit.
How dare Shoppach not get an extra-base hit for one of the few games this month! He sucks! We need Varitek and his declining bat speed and wonderful intangibles back for $30 million dollars over the next 3 years! Trade Shoppach for Ryan Langerhans! :rolleyes:
Season Line: .245/.335/.453/.788; .37 (31/83) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 12 HR, 41 RBI, 39 R
geeze already giving up on Shoppach?
Zenny
07-09-2004, 12:57 AM
:lol: I was just kidding.
By the way, Jason Varitek and his intangibles had an 0-4 with 3 K's game. Blazing bat speed he had tonight being 10 feet late on those fastballs. ;)
Zenny
07-09-2004, 09:57 PM
I'm convinced, the PawSox cannot hit anymore. Another poor offensive outing from that team and a 1-4, RBI, K night for Shoppach. Richmond has absolutely owned Pawtucket recently.
Season Line: .245/.333/.450/.783; .37 (31/84) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 12 HR, 42 RBI, 39 R
Zenny
07-10-2004, 11:46 PM
Shopp got the day off for the most part, but came in as a defensive replacement in the ninth and flew out to LF in his extra-innings AB.
Season Line: Season Line: .244/.332/.448/.780; .37 (31/84) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 12 HR, 42 RBI, 39 R
Zenny
07-10-2004, 11:47 PM
Article on Shoppach from the July 2004 edition of Boston Baseball:
A Hole in the Bucket?
Shoppach offer power and defense, but his whiffs are worrisome
By Mike Scandura
PAWTUCKET, RI- William Shakespeare couldn’t tell the difference between a curveball and a football. But if he was able to, he might have asked this about Pawtucket Red Sox catcher Kelly Shoppach:
“To be concerned about Shoppach’s strikeouts or not to be concerned- that is the question.”
The answers vary depending upon whom you ask, but the numbers have been consistent for Boston’s second-round pick in the 2001 draft. During his first two seasons, Shoppach fanned 195 times in 754 at-bats. Through games of June 24, Shoppach had struck out 74 times and was batting only .237.
A National League scout whose territory includes the Eastern League and the International League is concerned.
“Most of the pitches that I’ve seen him miss have been on the outside and breaking pitches that break toward the outside and out of the strike zone,” said the scout. “I haven’t seen him being handled so much on the inside as I have on pitches away from him. He just hasn’t been able to control that. Those are pitches that are just killing him.
“Every once in a while, I don’t know if he’s trying to guess, but he’ll take a called third strike. People don’t get concerned with strikeouts these days, but his strikeout numbers are extraordinary. If he was hitting about .285 with a little more juice, you probably could accept them. But he’s got to cut down on those strikeouts.”
At face value, the Boston Red Sox could be concerned about this aspect of Shoppach’s game, a game that includes defensive skills to die for. After all, Jason Varitek is in the last year of his contract. Any negotiations have taken place well below the radar screen (as opposed to the high-profile contract flaps involving Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez). Varitek’s agent is Scott Boras. The mere mention of his name is enough to send most general managers running to the nearest drugstore looking for a headache remedy.
“I think it was generally felt that if you go back about two years, and looked at Varitek’s contract duration, and if you looked at his progress, it seemed that one’s (contract) was going to end and the other guy (Shoppach) would be coming up to replace him,” said the scout. “But I think Varitek’s playing much better than what they thought. Now, you have to give real serious consideration to meeting salary demands there.
“Shoppach hasn’t progressed this year in Triple-A to the point where you can say he can be (Boston’s) catcher next year.”
PawSox manager Buddy Bailey zips his lips when asked about Shoppach’s chances of next year jumping to the major leagues. But he doesn’t jump all over Shoppach’s difficulty making contact.
“He’s struck out quite a bit, but he’s had so few professional at-bats that he’s still got a lot more to see,” Bailey said. “He’s still pushing 1,000 (career) at-bats. That’s two full seasons. most kids [his age] are just going to Double-A. Here he is competing at the Triple-A level, at midseason against ex-major league pitchers and a lot of guys that are on the verge of going to the big leagues.
“It all starts with making mental adjustments, seeing things and realizing ‘I’ve got to do this’ or ‘I’ve got to do that.’ Your mental approach becomes somewhat different, and that comes through experience as far as getting those at-bats and plate appearances.
“He’s going through that now whereas some guys have been doing it since rookie ball,” Bailey said. “He’s a year-and-a-half ahead of where most guys would be in their pro career as far as the number of plate appearances and pro at-bats he’s got. That’s a huge difference. It’s another 700 to 750 plate appearances.”
Shoppach is take an honest approach to his offensive woes.
“This is the first time in a while that I’ve failed offensively,” he said. “I didn’t expect to come in here and be a world-beater. But at the same time, I didn’t expect to struggle.
“Obviously, at Triple-A there are guys that have been in the big leagues and know how to get guys out. That’s been the toughest thing, making adjustments faster than I’ve had to in the past… making them pitch to pitch rather than at-bat to at-bat. I feel like I’m not overmatched, but the adjustments have to be made quicker. That’s what we’ve been focusing on the most.”
When Bailey focuses on Shoppach’s power, his eyes light up like Manny Ramirez’s do when he pounces on a hanging curveball.
“He’s got very good power and power to all fields,” said Bailey. “He hit one of the longest homeruns I’ve ever seen in my life at Louisville (a 460-foot blast on May 30 that was fifth-longest in Slugger Field history).
“(Through June 24) he has 10 homers and 36 RBI. That’s pretty good for a guy that hasn’t played much pro ball and has had minimal pro at-bats. At this rate, he’s got a chance to hit around 20-25 homers and drive in 80-90 runs, depending upon how hot he gets.”
Bailey doubts Shoppach will be a .300-plus hitter. Being a power hitter is more like it. In this regard, he sees Shoppach being a catcher who hits 25-30 homers and drives in around 100 runs.
“That’s a very productive year out of a catcher,” he said.
That Shoppach is productive behind the plate is beyond question, especially when it comes to throwing out basestealers. Through his first 59 games, Shoppach had thrown out 38 percent (19 of 50). That number would be higher if a few throws had not been dropped.
“He has a plus release, as far as transfer and release are concerned,” said Bailey. “His times to second are always good. The major league average is 2.0. He’s been in the 1.8 range, which is well above average.
“Defensively, he blocks the ball real well. He doesn’t run fast but he’s got quick feet which make him a good catcher.”
Shoppach has had to make like a sponge because his position requires him to absorb so much information.
“It’s been a learning process on both sides,” he said. “I feel like I’m making some great strides offensively. Defensively, it’s been a game of adjustments, too, learning how to read hitters and read pitchers and understand the situations in a game.
“Nothing’s been really disappointing because this is an opportunity for me to learn to play the game. As long as I’m doing that and getting better every day, I think I’m making strides as a ballplayer.”
In Bailey’s opinion, Shoppach has made more strides than the average fan realizes.
“To me, he’s learned more baseball here in two, three months than he has in previous years,” he said. “That tells me a lot of things are clicking in his head, and that he’s analyzing and evaluating. The next step is making adjustments.”
Adjustments could lift Kelly Shoppach to the next level – and make Jason Varitek expendable.
Zenny
07-11-2004, 04:21 PM
Poor game for Shoppach who went 0-4 with 2 K's in the PawSox loss. They are now 1-7 against the Richmond Braves this season and cannot seem to score at all against that pitching staff. At least the AAA All-Star Break is coming up so they can rest, regroup and hopefully play better.
Shoppach's Complete 1st Half Stats: 72 G, 254 AB's, .240/.328/.441/.769; .36 (31/86) BB/K ratio; 61 H, 15 2B, 12 HR, 112 TB
This way, we will have a reference point to see how he does in the second half of the season.
schillingouttheks
07-11-2004, 07:05 PM
seriously, i dont think we will have use for shoppach next year. the two guys we are resigning for next year, i strongly bet, are v-tek, and pedro. thats it. no nomar, and obviously not lowe. if the d-backs want young talented prospects, then they can get them from here. example: kelly shoppach. talented young kid who will make impacts later in his career. if we want randy johnson, than the d-backs are gunna look for major prospects like shoppach. and if v-tek is insured to stay...then well, trade shoppach for someone worthwhile...hint hint like randy johnson :)
Zenny
07-11-2004, 07:26 PM
You're new so I'll fill you in as well.
Theo buys into the Billy Beane theory of catchers declining over 31% from ages 31 to 32. Varitek is 32 now and we are seeing that decline this season. I have noticed that his bat speed is much slower and I am no scout. So if I notice it, I'm positive Theo has noticed it. Spending $7-10 million per season on him, like Varitek is requesting, is not smart business. He will not produce seasons like his 2003 and even then he was not worth the money he's asking. Shoppach is the solution to that problem.
I understand you want to trade for RJ, and I'd love him here too, but he doesn't want to be here. Even if he did, the Sox have enough other talented prospects and youngsters that the Sox do not have to part with next season's starting catcher.
schillingouttheks
07-11-2004, 07:29 PM
o now i get it, thanks for the fill in :), but i still think mirabelli is a decent, if not better, catcher
Ortiz34
07-11-2004, 07:54 PM
Are you saying Mirabelli is a better catcher than Tek? How dare you! Belli is a backup catcher, and that is all he will ever be. I believe Tek will break out in after the all star break and have a 2nd half similar to Ortiz' last year.
schillingouttheks
07-11-2004, 09:17 PM
im starting to go with zenny and the billy bean theory...unfortunately for tek :unsure:
Ortiz34
07-11-2004, 09:21 PM
sure sure
schillingouttheks
07-11-2004, 09:25 PM
ok u gimme some proof about how teks slower swing is gunna help him, id love to hear it.
Ortiz34
07-11-2004, 09:26 PM
calm down man. Lets just wait till after the all star break, and then we will see who is better.
Zenny
07-11-2004, 09:53 PM
Mirabelli will not be this team's starting catcher, ever. It will be Varitek to round out the year, then they will shake his hand, thank him for the years of service and let him walk off to some other dopey team to pay him $10 million dollars a year while we collect the draft picks. Varitek has two homeruns since the end of May; one came at Coors Field (we all know about that place) and the other was the luckiest homer I've ever seen (it would've been a foul ball in any other ballpark, even Tek thought it was foul). That's not a slump, that's a decline. Slumps do not last two months like that without at least something going right. I won't even bring up his sub-.700 road OPS.
Next season, they'll greet Shoppach with open arms and give him every opportunity to step up and make a name for himself and I think he'll flourish. He's going to have his share of strikeouts, but he's going to be lacing balls off and over the Monster for years to come.
elsrbueno
07-12-2004, 08:05 AM
I seriously doubt the Red Sox are gunna part with Shoppach. If they were willing to, I think they would have in the deal for either Beltran or Garcia.
CrespoBlows
07-12-2004, 09:33 AM
I agree with Zenny as well, Varitek can't seem to catch up on any pitch. He isn't worth at all what he is asking for.
elsrbueno
07-12-2004, 12:50 PM
Red Sox fans:
We've got to have faith in a 'Tek turnaround....The team needs his bat to be like last year!
Although don't be too surprised if he leaves after this year
Zenny
07-14-2004, 07:17 PM
OK, so I scrolled through the game logs on www.sportsnetwork.com and I created a database of Shoppach's AB's, H's and TB's from every game this season. I split them by month and got his BA/SLG% for each one. I didn't do OBP, because that's not a category anyone is worried about and calculating it is a pain in the ass and I'm not that motivated.
April- .210/.371
May- .238/.413
June- .269/.436
July- .235/.500
You know how everyone is waiting for him to hit in the .260-.280 range? It's coming and was already here in June. Don't fret, folks. As far as the July numbers, it's just a small sample size at this point (34 AB's) and the team mostly played the very good Richmond Braves' pitching staff. That will be up in time.
elsrbueno
07-14-2004, 08:41 PM
Zenny,
With the RJ rumors swirling...I really hope the Sox keep Shoppach...
Zenny
07-14-2004, 09:57 PM
I did the AB/K (1st #) and PA/BB (2nd #) for Shopp by month too:
April- 2.95, 13.4
May- 2.76, 12.43
June- 2.89, 5.3
July- 3.78, 35
We want the first number to get bigger and the second number to get smaller. Again, take the July numbers with a grain of salt, it was only 34 AB's.
Zenny
07-15-2004, 11:18 PM
:angry: 0-5 and Golden Sombrero (3 K's) for Shoppach. No biggie yet, it is the first game back after three days off and he probably just didn't have his timing down. I'll be pissed if he keeps it up, though.
Season Line: .236/.322/.432/.754; .35 (31/89) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 12 HR, 42 RBI, 39 R
Damn, that OPS was at .800 like 5 games ago. That sucks.
Zenny
07-17-2004, 07:34 PM
Shopp went 1-4 with a homer and K yesterday. The homer came off of Shopp's former battery mate, former Sox prospect and a key part of the Schilling deal, lefthanded Jorge de la Rosa. Shopp blasted an outside fastball the other-way to right-center. Sweet bomb.
Season Line: .236/.321/.441/.762; .34 (31/90) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 13 HR, 43 RBI, 40 R
Zenny
07-18-2004, 12:48 AM
Shopp had an 0-4 with a K game today. He's 1-13 since the break with a homerun and 5 K's.
The defense is there because he's still gunning down runners and blocking the plate extremely well from what I've heard on 790 when I get to listen to games. His inability to make consistent contract is frustrating, though. When he connects, he hits the ball wicked hard. There in lies the problem, when he connects and that hasn't been often enough at this point.
Something needs to click and he needs to begin to make those adjustments on curves low and away. Just don't swing at 'em. 95% of the time, they won't be called strikes.
Season Line: 232/.317/.434/.751; .34 (31/91) BB/K ratio; 15 2B, 13 HR, 43 RBI, 40 R
Zenny
07-19-2004, 10:31 PM
Shopp went 1-4 with a 2B, RBI and K. He's struck out at least once in every game since the return from the break.
I am not as confident as I was on July 7th. :(
Season Line: .232/.316/.435/.751; .34 (31/92) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 13 HR, 44 RBI, 40 R
Zenny
07-20-2004, 09:58 PM
OK, here it is. Mark it down, write it up and stop the presses, because I am going to say it: Kelly Shoppach is not ready to be this team's starting catcher next season unless something drastic happens quickly. He had another 0-4 game with 2 K's against the rehabbing Kevin Brown and continues his consecutive games with a K streak. He has 6 total bases (double, homer) in 17 AB's since the Break with 7 K's. That's a .471 OPS in that stretch.
Season Line: .229/.312/.429/.741; .33 (31/94) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 13 HR, 44 RBI, 40 R
Zenny
07-21-2004, 09:55 PM
Shopp walked for the first time since the break, but he also went 0-3 with a K. His BB/K actually improved. :rolleyes:
Season Line: .227/.311/.424/.735; .34 (32/95) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 13 HR, 44 RBI, 41 R
I'm a very disappointed Kelly Shoppach fan.
Chrupzilla
07-21-2004, 10:38 PM
Certainly not an encouraging show down at AAA by Shoppach. With Tek possibly going, but possibly re-signing, Shopp could either be a very important part of the teams future ... or trade bait.
Zenny
07-22-2004, 01:17 AM
I still think he'll be a damn fine player, but it's beginning to look like he'll need another year. There are still 3 solid months left in which he can prove himself to take the spot, but something needs to click fast and those adjustments he keeps talking about need to be made. I still think he has Gold Glove, 30-homer upside; but that will only come with improved contact and a better ability to hang in on low-and-away curveballs.
Of the games I've watched and listened to on 790, his entire problem has been low-and-away curves. He can take any fastball you throw at him over the fence, but if you screw with his timing even a little, he's done for. He needs to get his shit together and get going.
elsrbueno
07-22-2004, 10:02 AM
Well, Shopp will be 25 next year....he doesn't have a lot of time to prove he's ready for the bigs (since catchers pretty much start declining at 30).
Zenny
07-24-2004, 10:18 PM
Shoppach hit a 3-R HR in 4 AB's and managed not to K. He's all the way down to be tied for 5th in the league, whoopie!
Season Line: .227/.310/.433/.743; .34 (32/95) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 14 HR, 47 RBI, 42 R
He can really hit the shit out of the ball when he makes contact. I'm still very disappointed with his second-half showing and overall season, but I'm going to try to remain positive.
Zenny
07-24-2004, 10:21 PM
Thought I'd just do the second-half line as well: .107/.138/.357/.495; .11 (1/9) BB/K; 1 2B, 2 HR in 7 games (28 AB's).
Zenny
07-26-2004, 11:44 AM
Shoppach went 1-5 with a R and 2 K's yesterday...
and they are playing now and he just struck out looking on a pitch by Bruce Chen after getting ahead 3-0. He didn't swing once the entire AB.
Season Line: .226/.309/.429/.738; .33 (32/97) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 14 HR, 47 RBI, 43 R (not including today's first at-bat).
Zenny
07-26-2004, 03:46 PM
Shopp went 0-2 with a BB and K in today's day game. This is just becoming extreme; he's the prototypical sabermetric power hitter: a walk, strikeout or homerun as the only three real results in baseball. It's just that he's not hitting enough homeruns and whiffing a bit too much.
Season Line: .225/.309/.426/.735; .34 (33/98) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 14 HR, 47 RBI, 43 R
Zenny
07-28-2004, 12:50 AM
Shopp hit an RBI single and K'd twice in 4 AB's.
Season Line: .225/.308/.423/.731; .33 (33/100) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 14 HR, 48 RBI, 43 R
No further comment today, expect for this: I listened to Shopp's 1st AB on the radio and he struck out on a curveball that bounced in the dirt in front of homeplate. This is very, very bad.
Zenny
07-29-2004, 05:45 AM
Shopp pinch-hit for Bailey yesterday and, guess what, struck out.
Season Line: .224/.307/.422/.729; .33 (33/101) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 14 HR, 48 RBI
Zenny
07-30-2004, 09:37 PM
Shoppach went 1-4 with a 2-run homerun and an RBI groundout. All this without K'ing (flyout to LF and groundout to 3B also).
I'm probably reading too much into this, but it looks like he is beginning to make those adjustments later. He took those offspeed pitches to the left-side, therefore meaning that he's been making those adjustments a little bit quicker. So instead of flailing at those pitches, he's at least making contact. Those might be Shoppach's three most important at-bats of the year without getting on base.
Season Line: .225/.308/.427/.735; .33 (34/102) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 15 HR, 52 RBI
Zenny
07-31-2004, 01:48 AM
Shoppach's overall second half: .146/.196/.354/.550, .18 (3/17) BB/K, 1 2B, 3 HR
Shoppach's last eight games: .185/.267/.407/.674, .38 (3/8) BB/K, 2 HR
Certainly a promising trend over the last eight games. If you remove that one AB in which he pinch hit and K'd, so in his last seven starts: .192/.276/.423/.699, .43 (3/7) BB/K, 2 HR
Given that he's apparently hanging in there better on offspeed stuff, we could see a big August and September from Kelly Shoppach.
Zenny
07-31-2004, 08:34 PM
Shopp and Tek had identical nights tonight, 0-4 with 2 K's.
Season Line: 222/.304/.422/.726; .33 (34/104) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 15 HR, 52 RBI
Zenny
08-03-2004, 06:00 PM
I forgot to update Shoppach from two games ago. He went 1-4 with a homerun and 3 K's. The homerun came off of side-winding, "impossible for righties to hit" Yankee farm hand Colter Bean.
Guess what he did today? 1-4, 2-R HR and 3 K's again. This time, the shot came off of "teh nxt ynke ace!!1!" Brad Halsey. I hear it was quite a moon shot.
Looks like we've got a Yankee killer on our hands, boys (when he's not striking out)!
Season Line: 223/.303/.436/.739; .31 (34/110) BB/K ratio; 16 2B, 17 HR, 55 RBI
Zenny
08-03-2004, 06:10 PM
Here's what Shoppach did in the second half of July: .135/.182/.327/.509; .17 (3/18) BB/K; 1 2B, 3 HR; 2.89 AB/K; 18.3 PA/BB.
Yuck. August (.250/.250/1.000/.1.250; Zero (0/6) BB/K; 2 HR; 1.33 AB/K; 0 PA/BB) is looking a little better already. OK, not really, he's still whiffing like a madman.
Zenny
08-05-2004, 11:29 PM
As most of you know, I was in attendance at tonight's PawSox game against the Rochester Red Wings. My boy Kelly Shoppach impressed me.
In the second inning, he laced a double in the left-center field gap off of a fastball.
In the fourth inning he took an offspeed pitch to the shortstop Prieto who made a nice backhanded pick and turned it into a DP.
In the sixth, Shoppach destroyed a 90 MPH fastball, hitting it off the Benny's sign in left-center for a 420-430 foot homerun. It was more of a linedrive homerun, but Ryan and Restovich didn't even give chase. They stayed put, knowing it was very gone and just turned to admire.
In the eight, he worked the count full and took the walk, laying off some very good breaking stuff.
The best part? All of this came off of right-handed pitchers. I saw (or remember) him only swing and miss once, and that came on an 89 MPH fastball that he got fooled on. He is definitely improving, as evidenced by the homeruns in three consecutive games and his ability to either make contact to the offspeed pitches or lay off them to work a fastball count or take the walk.
Season Line: .227/.308/.451/.759; .32 (35/110) BB/K ratio; 17 2B, 18 HR, 56 RBI
CrespoBlows
08-06-2004, 02:48 PM
What's that 4 homeruns in his last 5 games? He's showing some power now. I think he hits .250 with 25 HR's this year.
Zenny
08-06-2004, 03:37 PM
Shopp's got a 1.690 OPS this month. Granted, it's only three games, but wow.
Zenny
08-06-2004, 11:14 PM
Shopp went 1-4 with 2 K's today. One of those K's (the only one I heard) came on a fastball, so it's not like he's overly chasing the breaking stuff again.
Season Line: .227/.307/.449/.756; .31 (35/112) BB/K ratio; 17 2B, 18 HR, 56 RBI
Zenny
08-08-2004, 03:33 PM
Apart from yesterday's game (an ugly 0-4, 3 K's), Shopp is on fire. 2-4 with a homerun, single, walk and two runs scored today. In August, Shopp is hitting .304/.360/.870/1.230 with 2 BB/11 K; 2 1B, 2B, 4 HR.
Season Line: .228/.308/.453/.761; .31 (36/115) BB/K ratio; 17 2B, 19 HR, 57 RBI
Zenny
08-09-2004, 09:31 PM
I don't think Shoppach knows what a single looks like. This is just crazy, he has been feasting on AAA pitching for the past two or so weeks. Today? 2-4, 2B, HR, 3 RBI, 2 R, K. I think he's made the adjustment. The announcer on 790 (I can never remember his name) said that Tim Raines Jr. didn't even move to go after the ball. He hit it to dead center and the guy screamed "No one hits them there!" It was something like 420-430 feet, like the one I saw in Pawtucket, except this one came in Ottowa.
A good sign is also that a lot of the guys he is taking deep are guys who have been or should be in the big leagues. He's not feasting off of the scrubs, he's been taking deep the guys with big league experience or the talent to be there.
I still firmly hold my belief that the jump from AA to AAA is just as hard or harder than AAA to the big leagues. There are a lot of guys in AAA who belong on a big league roster (or who have been there) and there are a lot of big league pitchers who belong in AAA. You never see anything like that in AA. If a kid is good in AA, he quickly gets the jump to AAA. There's no logjam. It's a totally new experience.
The more I think about it, the more confident I am that Shopp could possibly make the jump to start in '05. Granted, fewer K's would be nice, but Varitek had a worse year in '97 in a better hitters' league, was a year older and he still stepped in to start in '98.
Season Line: .231/.310/.465/.775; .31 (36/116) BB/K ratio; 18 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
CrespoBlows
08-10-2004, 04:37 PM
Shoppach could bat 9th like Vartiek did with the Sox in '03. I guess that would work with him.
Tek04
08-10-2004, 08:27 PM
Why hasnt this guy been called up yet?
Zenny
08-10-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Tek04@Aug 10 2004, 09:27 PM
Why hasnt this guy been called up yet?
He needs to catch everyday and continue to make adjustments on off-speed pitches. Why rush him when Tek has the job nailed down for the rest of the year? If he continues to play well, he'll likely be up here in September to split time with Tek and Big Belli.
CrespoBlows
08-10-2004, 08:56 PM
Do you think Theo Epstein will resign Jason Vartiek?
Zenny
08-10-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Aug 10 2004, 09:56 PM
Do you think Theo Epstein will resign Jason Vartiek?
If Tek's price comes down? Yes. If his agent is still Scott Boras six months from now? No. I think Tek's potential suitors will be the D-Rays, Giants, Dodgers, Cardinals, White Sox, Mets, Astros and Angels. I do not honestly think that we can rationally outbid all of them. Someone is going to give him a gaudy offer and he'll take it.
CrespoBlows
08-10-2004, 09:05 PM
Maybe we could compare Shoppach to what Vartiek was like at 24.
Zenny
08-10-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Aug 10 2004, 10:05 PM
Maybe we could compare Shoppach to what Vartiek was like at 24.
Varitek at 25 was in the PCL (AAA), a good hitter's league, and showed no power and little discipline. Shoppach at 24 was in the IL (AAA), in a neutral league, hit for rediculous amounts of power with some walks and a lot of K's.
I think too much emphasis is being placed upon the K's. They happen, lot's of younger hitters strike out. Hell, Varitek strikes out over twice as much as he walks even to this day. If you remove Shoppach's first ten games (standard adjustment period), he's hitting about .250 and has just about an .830 OPS. Also, if you remove the second-half of July in which he has publicly stated that he was run down (he got a lot of rest at the end of July/early August), the numbers go up to like .270/.900.
Is he ready? The last two months of the season and Spring Training will determine that. The power, defense and walks are there. The question is if the walks and average will become too much of a damper on the other things.
Zenny
08-10-2004, 09:22 PM
http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=DFJ- Tek's minor league stats, by the way. Shoppach has blown him away in nearly every category at the same level at a younger age.
Zenny
08-11-2004, 09:38 PM
Shopp whiffed twice and grounded out tonight, but he also took a walk in a critical spot in the eight inning to extend a key rally. OK, he took a walk and I'm overblowing it. Big deal. :lol:
Season Line: 227/.310/.461/.771; .31 (37/118) BB/K ratio; 18 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Tek04
08-11-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Zenny+Aug 10 2004, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zenny @ Aug 10 2004, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tek04@Aug 10 2004, 09:27 PM
Why hasnt this guy been called up yet?
He needs to catch everyday and continue to make adjustments on off-speed pitches. Why rush him when Tek has the job nailed down for the rest of the year? If he continues to play well, he'll likely be up here in September to split time with Tek and Big Belli. [/b][/quote]
but varitek is supposed to serve a suspension sometime (maybe he already did) and they were gonna bring up Andy Domnique, why not bring up Shop?
Zenny
08-12-2004, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Tek04@Aug 11 2004, 11:23 PM
but varitek is supposed to serve a suspension sometime (maybe he already did) and they were gonna bring up Andy Domnique, why not bring up Shop?
That's what they are considering. Since Dominque was sent down, he had 10 days before he could be called back up. I still think he has three games left before the Sox can recall him. Calling up Shoppach would be a numbers game, though. You'd have to add him to the 40-man roster and drop someone else, which becomes a sticky situation. Then you have to find a place for him on the 25-man roster, although not as risky (as far as potentially losing a player to waivers), it's just as complicated. I don't see him up this year outside a potential September call-up.
Zenny
08-15-2004, 02:49 PM
Shopp went 1-3 with a 2B and K yesterday. Today, he went 0-2 with 2 BB's.
Season Line: .230/.315/.459/.774; .33 (40/120) BB/K ratio; 19 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
EDIT: My math is bad. I gave him 2 extra OBP points.
Zenny1
08-15-2004, 04:08 PM
Will this guy ever hit for average?
yeszir
08-15-2004, 05:09 PM
Impersonator?
Zenny
08-15-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by yeszir@Aug 15 2004, 06:09 PM
Impersonator?
Yeah, ban him please. That's really annoying.
Zenny
08-17-2004, 10:08 PM
Shopp went 1-3 with 2 walks and no K's. He's showing much better plate discipline this month. That's eight walks in 13 games this month and four in the last three.
Season Line: .231/.318/.459/.777; .35 (42/121) BB/K ratio; 20 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Zenny1
08-18-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Zenny+Aug 15 2004, 06:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zenny @ Aug 15 2004, 06:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-yeszir@Aug 15 2004, 06:09 PM
Impersonator?
Yeah, ban him please. That's really annoying. [/b][/quote]
Ban him, why should I be banned. I didn't do anything wrong. You annoy me.
Zenny1
08-18-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Zenny@Aug 17 2004, 10:08 PM
Shopp went 1-3 with 2 walks and no K's. He's showing much better plate discipline this month. That's eight walks in 13 games this month and four in the last three.
Season Line: .231/.318/.459/.777; .35 (42/121) BB/K ratio; 20 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Will he hit for a decent avg. in the majors since he isn't in AAA?
empirestrikesback26
08-18-2004, 05:29 PM
I think he doesnt like you because you have basically the same name.
Zenny1
08-18-2004, 07:00 PM
Hey Zenny, Look we even joined on the same day, the 15th and a month that begins with an A. We must be twins.
empirestrikesback26
08-18-2004, 07:08 PM
he joined the 16th not the 15th.
CrespoBlows
08-18-2004, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Zenny1@Aug 18 2004, 08:00 PM
Hey Zenny, Look we even joined on the same day, the 15th and a month that begins with an A. We must be twins.
Forum about Kelly Shoppach.
empirestrikesback26
08-18-2004, 08:26 PM
true, threads go off topic sometimes.
Zenny
08-18-2004, 10:32 PM
The Shoppinator went 0-4 with a K today. So much for the power surge and all that walking.
Season Line: .228/.315/.454/.769; .34 (42/122) BB/K ratio; 20 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Zenny
08-21-2004, 02:04 AM
Shopp went 1-3 with a 2B, BB and 2 K. He's taking his walks, getting XBH's and doing his typical striking out.
Season Line: .229/.317/.455/.772; .35 (43/124) BB/K ratio; 21 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
yeszir
08-21-2004, 05:39 AM
I'd be much more pleased if he got his average up to around .250 or higher. .229 isn't that impressive. I guess it'll come with time (I hope).
Zenny
08-21-2004, 09:39 AM
He hit .270 in June, had a bad July (was run down, but really picked it up at the end of the month) and is hitting just about .270 again this month (but with a .378 OBP and .654 SLG%). I think with a half season at Pawtucket next year, he should show vast improvement and be all set, I believe.
Zenny
08-22-2004, 12:27 AM
0-3 with 2 K's for Shopp tonight.
Season Line: .227/.315/.452/.767; .34 (43/126) BB/K ratio; 21 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Zenny1
08-22-2004, 10:43 AM
Zen, Do you think this guy will hit in the majors? If so, what kind of avg. do you think he will have?
Zenny
08-22-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Zenny1@Aug 22 2004, 11:43 AM
Zen, Do you think this guy will hit in the majors? If so, what kind of avg. do you think he will have?
He'll probably hit between .250-.275, but he'll have an OBP about .100 points higher than his batting average and he'll slug around .500 with 25-30 homeruns. I still do think he needs the beginning of next season in Pawtucket, though.
Zenny
08-25-2004, 12:00 PM
Shopp went 0-3 with a BB, K and R two nights ago. I forgot to update.
Season Line: .225/.314/.448/.762; .35 (44/127) BB/K ratio; 21 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
schillingouttheks
08-25-2004, 12:21 PM
the way varitek has been hitting recently makes me think he and pedro should be resigned. apparently varitek isnt fallin to the billy bean theory thingy.
Zenny1
08-25-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Zenny@Aug 25 2004, 12:00 PM
Shopp went 0-3 with a BB, K and R two nights ago. I forgot to update.
Season Line: .225/.314/.448/.762; .35 (44/127) BB/K ratio; 21 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Shop needs to pull his avg up if he is ever going to make it to the majors.
Zenny
08-25-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Zenny1@Aug 25 2004, 01:50 PM
Shop needs to pull his avg up if he is ever going to make it to the majors.
Oh, he'll be making the majors. The question is how long or how productive his career will be.
Zenny
08-25-2004, 09:16 PM
0-4 with 2 K's for Shoppach. Here we go again.
Season Line: .223/.311/.443/.754; .34 (44/129) BB/K ratio; 21 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
yeszir
08-26-2004, 04:17 AM
From what I've been reading here, it seems like Shopp is the ultimate streaky player. He hits well for a while, and then just falls into the funk to end all funks.
Plus he seems to be striking out an awful lot.
Zenny
08-26-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by yeszir@Aug 26 2004, 05:17 AM
From what I've been reading here, it seems like Shopp is the ultimate streaky player. He hits well for a while, and then just falls into the funk to end all funks.
Plus he seems to be striking out an awful lot.
That seems to be the case. He can carry a team for two weeks and be an automatic out for the next month. Sounds like the catcher we already have.
Zenny
08-28-2004, 12:18 AM
Shopp went 1-2 with a couple of walks tonight.
Season Line: .224/.315/.443/.758; .36 (46/129) BB/K ratio; 21 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
August Line: .234/.347/.547/.894; .44 (11/25) BB/K
Zenny
08-28-2004, 08:05 PM
Shopp went 1-4 with a 2B and K tonight.
Season Line: .225/.314/.444/.758; .35 (46/130) BB/K ratio; 22 2B, 20 HR, 60 RBI
Zenny
08-29-2004, 07:59 PM
Shopp went 2-3 with a 2B, HBP, RBI and 2 R.
Season Line: .228/.319/.448/.767; .35 (46/130) BB/K ratio; 23 2B, 20 HR, 61 RBI
Zenny
08-31-2004, 10:13 PM
Shopp went 2-4 with a 2-R HR and K tonight.
Season Line: .231/.320/.457/.777; .35 (46/131) BB/K ratio; 23 2B, 21 HR, 64 RBI
He hit .267.375/.600/.975 with a .44 (12/27) BB/K, 7 2B and 6 HR. He also had a 7.3 PA/BB and 2.78 AB/K.
yeszir
08-31-2004, 10:41 PM
And now the streakiness takes a turn upward I guess. It's fun to watch. :D Like a rollercoaster.
Zenny
09-01-2004, 05:56 AM
Originally posted by yeszir@Aug 31 2004, 11:41 PM
And now the streakiness takes a turn upward I guess. It's fun to watch. :D Like a rollercoaster.
They've only got 5 games left, so he should finish the season on a positive note. :D
Zenny
09-02-2004, 11:20 PM
2-4 with a 2B and 2 K's tonight.
Season Line: .234/.322/.460/.782; .35 (46/133) BB/K ratio; 24 2B, 21 HR, 64 RBI
Zenny
09-05-2004, 12:35 AM
0-2 with a K last night and 0-4 with a K tonight.
Season Line: .230/.319/.453/.772; .34 (46/135) BB/K ratio; 24 2B, 21 HR, 64 RBI
Zenny
09-05-2004, 07:35 PM
2-4 with a 2B, solo HR and 2 K's tonight. At least he had more total bases than whiffs.
Season Line: .233/.321/.463/.784; .34 (46/137) BB/K ratio; 25 2B, 22 HR, 64 RBI
CrespoBlows
09-06-2004, 10:39 AM
How many ABs is that for Shoppach this year?
Zenny
09-06-2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 6 2004, 11:39 AM
How many ABs is that for Shoppach this year?
395. He'll finish just south of 400 this year, because today is the last game and he shouldn't get more than 4 AB's, maximum.
By the way, Shoppach finished with the single season HR record by a PawSox catcher with 22 (21 as a C, 1 as a DH). Nice job, Shopp!
yeszir
09-06-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Zenny+Sep 6 2004, 01:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zenny @ Sep 6 2004, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CrespoBlows@Sep 6 2004, 11:39 AM
How many ABs is that for Shoppach this year?
395. He'll finish just south of 400 this year, because today is the last game and he shouldn't get more than 4 AB's, maximum.
By the way, Shoppach finished with the single season HR record by a PawSox catcher with 22 (21 as a C, 1 as a DH). Nice job, Shopp! [/b][/quote]
Well, there haven't really been that many high profile catcher names to come up through the sox system in the past. But congrats to him anyways!
CrespoBlows
09-06-2004, 03:48 PM
Vartiek is one i :shrug: who else though. 1 HR every 17 at bats. Pretty good ratio. His K rate was too high, must improve. Vartiek going to get an extenstion though because of the way he's played of late.
schillingouttheks
09-06-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 6 2004, 03:48 PM
Vartiek is one i :shrug: who else though. 1 HR every 17 at bats. Pretty good ratio. His K rate was too high, must improve. Vartiek going to get an extenstion though because of the way he's played of late.
i do too, another interesting free agent next year though is mike matheny... who knows? :shrug:
Zenny
09-06-2004, 05:49 PM
Well, Shoppach went 1-4 with a K today. He hit .278/.316/.556/.872 in 5 September games.
FINAL SEASON LINE:.233/.321/.463/.784; .34 (46/137) BB/K ratio; 25 2B, 22 HR in 113 G and 399 AB's and 454 PA
Rate Stats: AB/HR- 18.1; AB/K- 2.9; PA/BB- 9.9; AB/2B- 16; AB/XBH- 8.5
Here's my final analysis:
Shoppach has officially claimed the title of the best power hitting catcher in PawSox history, all while doing it in his first season there, making it that much more impressive. As a 24 year-old, Shoppach outproduced 25 year-old Jason Varitek, while Varitek played in the hitter friendly PCL and Shoppach played in the neutral IL.
Shoppach has fantastic power, utilizing all fields, and destroys left-handed pitching. He also takes a good share of walks (nearly 50 for a 24 year-old in his first year at AAA is very good) and had an OBP nearly 100 points above his BA most of the season. His defense is also second to none. He has amazing footwork behind the plate and an outstanding release. He threw out over 35% of prospective base-stealers against him, all while catching many games from Frank "The Snail" Castillo.
Shoppach still has a great deal of improvements to make, though. He strikes out far too much against right-handed pitching. Many of those are on curveballs that he cannot wait back on and he swings in front of them, while only a few are on fastballs by him or being caught looking.
Being off on timing one's swing on curveballs is a fixable problem. Our current catcher had the very same issue in his younger days, as did our right-fielder and many Hall of Famers, Mike Schmidt being the most renowned. At his age, he can certainly make the adjustment; he just needs a little more time. If thrown into the MLB fire, he would probably be a league average catcher and hit something like .220/.300/.425/.725 without really taking the Fenway effect into consideration, which could boost some of those numbers. A half-season, or potentially even full season, at Pawtucket would likely be better in preparing him for the big leagues.
Without straying too off-topic, I am still not in favor of giving Jason Varitek a long-term deal based solely on him as a player and catcher without taking in outside factors.
Zenny
09-06-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 6 2004, 04:48 PM
Vartiek is one i :shrug: who else though. 1 HR every 17 at bats. Pretty good ratio. His K rate was too high, must improve. Vartiek going to get an extenstion though because of the way he's played of late.
Varitek really only played like 30 games in Pawtucket after the trade from Seattle and only hit one homerun in that time. Carlton Fisk is the biggest name catcher I can think of to come through Pawtucket. Eric Wedge, the Indians current manager, and someone else (I forget his name) shared the 21 mark before Shopp broke it. Most players, if they are good, don't get the benefit of a full-season at one level, so in some occasions, the players to break AAA records usually aren't MLB caliber players (granted, that's only some instances, like Izzy Alcantara or Earl Snyder).
CrespoBlows
09-07-2004, 10:04 AM
Two words: Papa Jack. He really worked on Ortiz to help him out, do you think he could adjust Shoppach's swing?
Zenny
09-07-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 7 2004, 11:04 AM
Two words: Papa Jack. He really worked on Ortiz to help him out, do you think he could adjust Shoppach's swing?
Absolutely. I've been kind of banking on that as well. Shoppach seems to "step too far into the bucket" and he can't wait back on those curveballs, but destroys fastballs. I think he needs to cut down his stride, maybe make it a modified "glide", if you will, or something like that. Think Nomar, he barely moved his front foot and in his prime, could hammer anything you threw at him. Shopp might need the same adjustments.
CrespoBlows
09-09-2004, 08:41 PM
I changed my mine on Shoppach, he isn't ready next year, he needs to hit the ball, or quit striking out. I'd much rather see Vartiek be the catcher for 2 more years.
Zenny
09-09-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 9 2004, 09:41 PM
I changed my mine on Shoppach, he isn't ready next year, he needs to hit the ball, or quit striking out. I'd much rather see Vartiek be the catcher for 2 more years.
I agree on Shoppach not being ready, but Varitek for anything more than another season doesn't sound safe.
CrespoBlows
09-09-2004, 09:46 PM
Who's this guy Conception? Is he any good?
Zenny
09-09-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 9 2004, 10:46 PM
Who's this guy Conception? Is he any good?
Alberto Concepcion? Not really. He might make the bigs as a backup, but I wouldn't expect too much more out of him. He's no Shoppach.
CrespoBlows
09-09-2004, 09:54 PM
Did you see the foxsports ranking of Boston's prospects? They didn't put Moss in the top 10!
Zenny
09-09-2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 9 2004, 10:54 PM
Did you see the foxsports ranking of Boston's prospects? They didn't put Moss in the top 10!
No, I missed it and I rarely trust large media outlets of any kind in ranking prospects. Most don't follow them closely enough to give an accurate rating. Moss is my #2 behind Hanley.
CrespoBlows
09-09-2004, 10:04 PM
They judged on I guess what a scout would say, (in that case Oakland would be toward the bottom.) They brought up some prospects I haven't caught, like this guy Kyle Jackson? What's the skinny on him?
Zenny
09-09-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 9 2004, 11:04 PM
They judged on I guess what a scout would say, (in that case Oakland would be toward the bottom.) They brought up some prospects I haven't caught, like this guy Kyle Jackson? What's the skinny on him?
They mentioned Kyle Jackson in the Top 10? Now they're just doing local bias. Kid's from New Hampshire; OK control, but bad stuff. He really doesn't have anything. There are 30-40 guys I would put ahead of Jackson easily and he made FSN's top 10? Crazy.
empirestrikesback26
09-10-2004, 02:32 PM
the admiral...you know who i mean
CrespoBlows
09-10-2004, 10:12 PM
Dave Robinson, plays for the Yankees?
CrespoBlows
09-10-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Zenny@Sep 9 2004, 11:30 PM
They mentioned Kyle Jackson in the Top 10? Now they're just doing local bias. Kid's from New Hampshire; OK control, but bad stuff. He really doesn't have anything. There are 30-40 guys I would put ahead of Jackson easily and he made FSN's top 10? Crazy.
Here's there top ten
1. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Age: 20
2. Abe Alvarez, LHP, Age: 21
3. Kelly Shoppach, C, Age: 24
4. Jon Papelbon, RHP, Age: 23
5. Manny Delcarmen, RHP, Age: 22
6. Jose Vaquedano, RHP, Age: 23
7. Kyle Jackson, RHP, Age: 21
8. Dustin Pedroia, SS, Age: 21
9. Jon Lester, LHP, Age: 20
10. David Murphy, OF, Age: 22
empirestrikesback26
09-10-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Sep 10 2004, 11:12 PM
Dave Robinson, plays for the Yankees?
brad halsey.
Zenny
09-10-2004, 10:50 PM
Actually, now that I see the complete list, it's not that bad. Although, I would have replace Jackson with Moss, moved him to #2 and shifted everyone down one. This gives me an idea... (see new thread).
CrespoBlows
09-11-2004, 02:31 PM
Hmm, these fox guys are really good! Kyle Jackson was 3-13 last year! :shrug: Zenny, you should go apply for that postition!
CrespoBlows
04-08-2005, 03:40 PM
Bump, it's the start of the season
Zenny
04-09-2005, 10:28 AM
So far, Shopp is 2 for 9 on the young season with a homerun and a 0/3 BB/K. I doubt I'm going to do daily updates like I did last season, especially with Tek locked in for 4 more years. Still, I do believe Shoppach will become an above-average everyday defense and power catcher for someone, but probably not us. He'll probably have a big year in Pawtucket through July and then we trade him for something we need at the All-Star Break. Actually, we may not even need to make a trade at the break, depending on Wade Miller.
Zenny
04-23-2005, 08:30 AM
.270/.413/.649, 2 2B, 4 HR, 8 BB/11 K in 37 AB's for Shopp.
yankeessuck013
04-23-2005, 10:09 PM
Shoppach homered twice in one inning today!!!!
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050423&content_id=1704&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp
Zenny
04-23-2005, 11:39 PM
This kid's the man. He really is. I have nothing more to add.
yeszir
04-24-2005, 10:29 AM
Shoppach looks to be doing well. Varitek is signed through 2008. It's apparent that there will be a fairly large amount of overlap between the two. What will happen? Is there going to be a form of mentor-apprentace training going on, or is one of the two gone?
RedSoxRooter
04-28-2005, 09:41 AM
I don't know. I was thinking all along that he'd replace Mirabelli but then Doug signed an extension... I think for two more years.
Unless there is an injury, I just don't see Shoppach in the bigs for Boston. It would be a complete waste to leave him in the minors for 2-3 more years. He's got to be considered trade bait now.
He's doing pretty good right now. .275/.413/6hr in 16 games.
Zenny
05-01-2005, 12:35 PM
For the month of April, Shopp hit .290/.413/.694 with an 11 to 16 BB/K with 4 2B's and 7 HR's in 62 AB's.
Zenny
05-22-2005, 11:32 AM
Through May 21st, Shopp is hitting .273/.392/.555 with a 20 to 38 BB/K with 6 2B's and 10 HR's in 128 AB's. He has cooled off a little bit, but there was no way he was keeping up that April pace. Plus, he's had a sprained foot for a couple of weeks and has been limited to DH duty only.
yeszir
05-22-2005, 11:35 AM
This can be my contribution to the thread, a badass picture of Shoppach so we can see what he looks like:
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/images/2004/03/16/RppCZpjd.jpg
Zenny
05-25-2005, 08:20 AM
Shoppach hit another homerun last night, making it .270/.387/.562; 21/42; 7, 11 in 137 AB's.
CrespoBlows
05-25-2005, 09:16 AM
If Shoppach keeps up that pace he could hit 40+ HR's.
CrespoBlows
05-25-2005, 09:18 AM
Why don't the Red Sox move Kelly Shoppach to first base? He's seems like a good athlete who could make the transition over time. He'd be able to take over for Millar next year that way, and it give the Red Sox a player with 25+ HR power on the corner.
Zenny
05-25-2005, 09:38 AM
Me and the boys at NetSports have been kicking that around. Some have questions, others like the idea. It's worth a shot. He'd be better than Millar.
PS- Last night was Shopp's first game back at C in a while; he'd been DH'ing due to a sprained foot.
CrespoBlows
05-25-2005, 09:49 AM
Yea, he can't be worse than Millar at defense can he? Shopp's offense would be well worth seeing the transition though.
Zenny
05-25-2005, 10:06 PM
Yea, he can't be worse than Millar at defense can he? Shopp's offense would be well worth seeing the transition though.
Shopp's offense would be better than the 2 homers we have from Millar at this point. Don't forget the Fenway effect; everyone hits well at Fenway. You take Millar out of Fenway last season and into a neutral park and he's a .250/.325/.400 hitter at best. Shoppach could do that in a neutral park easily and would do better at Fenway.
elsrbueno
05-27-2005, 07:29 AM
Zenny,
Don't want to steal your thunder, but I just figured I'd announce:
The Red Sox called up Kelly Shoppach today. Thoughts?
Zenny
05-27-2005, 10:51 AM
He'll probably catch Wake's starts. He's probably going to K a bunch as he adapts as well. This is really just a cup of coffee until Mirabelli returns, but I'm excited nevertheless. I hope he hits the crap out of the ball so we are either forced to play him or get something great in a trade.
CrespoBlows
05-28-2005, 08:33 AM
He's going to catch Wells on Sunday, or catching Clement today.
RedSoxRooter
05-28-2005, 09:31 AM
I read Sunday. Imagine your first Major League game on Saturday afternoon, Red Sox/Yankees at the Stadium catching a knuckleballer??? He still gets to be on ESPN though.I'm looking forward to seeing him play.
soxie thefangirl
05-28-2005, 10:07 AM
yeah he's starting tomorrow with Wells.
Sizzlin22
05-28-2005, 12:41 PM
Thats scary man maybe he'll pull a Youkilis and hit a Home Run in his first game (wishful thinking).
schillingouttheks
05-28-2005, 01:31 PM
I wouldn't complain :D
Sizzlin22
05-28-2005, 03:08 PM
Hey he's in todays game come on now get a hit his entire family is probably watching.
Zenny
05-28-2005, 03:41 PM
He got plunked. Make that a career OBP of 1.000.
soxie thefangirl
05-28-2005, 04:27 PM
ah well. we'll see how he is tomorrow.
schillingouttheks
05-28-2005, 09:34 PM
Haha, if I am him I think they fear me. I am calling tomorrow Shopp has a great game. 2-3 with a double and a single, 1 RBI. More wishful thinking, and probably unrealistic as he likes to take a lot of pitches. But when he connects, we've seen he can CONNECT BABY!!
Zenny
05-28-2005, 09:41 PM
I don't think Shopp knows how to hit singles. He's all or nothing, baby. :D
Zenny
05-30-2005, 11:27 AM
Shopp went 0-4 in his first big league start. He whiffed on a Mussina slider in his first AB and ground out three times after that.
.000/.200/.000; 0/1 BB/K (with an HBP)
yeszir
05-30-2005, 11:29 AM
So much for the OBP of 1.000 :(
Sizzlin22
05-30-2005, 12:25 PM
Well you can;t expect much out of the kid.
Zenny
05-30-2005, 12:25 PM
So much for the OBP of 1.000 :(
It's OK, I thought he was going to keep it up for his entire career too.
Zenny
05-31-2005, 11:19 AM
After last night's groundout, make that .000/.167/.000/.167 with a 0/1 BB/K and an HBP in his short Major League career.
RedSoxRooter
06-10-2005, 06:01 PM
0-10?
Shop needs more time.
Gambit
06-10-2005, 07:00 PM
0-10?
Shop needs more time.
Hey, the great Derek Jeter went what, 0-32 last year? I know it was 0 for 30 something...
He'll be fine... but he'll also be going back down when Mirabelli comes back from his injury.
Actually, I am not sure on this - how long is Mirabelli's contract? I know originally Shoppach was being groomed to replace Varitek (which will now be 4 years from now)... I'd have to assume if we are going to keep Shoppach we'd want to get him up to the bigs to at least back up Tek for a couple years.
Matt
CrespoBlows
07-21-2005, 12:36 PM
Shoppach has hit 4 HR's in his last 3 games, probably rocketing his trade value from what is was.
riverside sluggers
07-21-2005, 12:41 PM
it be best to trade shoppach off in a nice package deal, mirabelli has been singed thru 2006 with a club option for 2007. it would be only right to trade him off so he wont have to spend so much time in triple A
soxie thefangirl
07-21-2005, 01:39 PM
Yeah. It makes no sense for him to stick around this organization since he won't be able to play forever.
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