View Full Version : Sheffield traded to Tigers
Optimist
11-10-2006, 03:37 PM
The Yankees and Tigers have agreed on a Gary Sheffield trade, SI.com has learned.
In return, the Yankees will acquire highly touted right-hander Humberto Sanchez and Class A pitchers Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett, according to a Tigers source.
The Tigers will extend Sheffield's contract for two years beyond the one year and $13 million remaining.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/10/sheffield.tigers/index.html
Good riddance.
He Hate Me
11-10-2006, 03:37 PM
Tigers extended his contract for 2 more years plus the one remaining.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/10/sheffield.tigers/index.html
thoughts?
All 3 prospects seem to have pretty good K/9 IP ratios. Dont really see anyone of them that makes me second guess this deal. I'm very happy with it. Sheff is a monster, but he's very temperamental and someone who isn't focused on things like moving the runner.
riverside sluggers
11-10-2006, 03:40 PM
Humberto Sanchez is a steal for the Yanks, very good pick up
Coco's Disciples
11-10-2006, 03:42 PM
Yeah Sanchez is a real good pitching spect. The other 2 I donno about. But if Sheff can do what he did in 2004 and other years, the Tigers will once again find themselves on top.
Soxfan#1
11-10-2006, 03:42 PM
Linebrink turned down for this?
riverside sluggers
11-10-2006, 03:48 PM
Sanchez is still one of the top 10 starting pitcher prospects in the game. 2006, in Double A he had a 1.76 ERA to go along with 86 Ks in 71.2 innings. He was rightfully so promoted to Triple A where he had a 3.86 ERA to go along with 43 Ks in 51.1 innings. The Triple A stats are skewed dute to the fact he had a "tired arm" nearing the end of the season as most pitching prospects do tend to have.
elsrbueno
11-10-2006, 03:51 PM
This looks like a good deal for the Yankees
Claggett and Whelan put up good numbers in the low minors and Sanchez is decent. The concern for the Yankees is obviously that the Claggett and Whelan continue to produce and that Sanchez becomes a contributer sooner than later.
Sheffield's got wrist, shoulder, and back problems and is a real a-hole. If healthy he can really make the Tigers lineup dangerous in the short term but to me that's a big if.
elsrbueno
11-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Linebrink turned down for this?
This is a more attractive package than Scott Linebrink alone.
elsrbueno
11-10-2006, 04:05 PM
FWIW.... here's the Yankees' press release.
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061110&content_id=1738698&vkey=pr_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
26 Reasons to Hate Us
11-10-2006, 04:05 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656847
In return for Sheffield, the Tigers sent Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett to New York. Detroit agreed to a two-year contract extension with Sheffield through the 2009 season.
edit: sorry, didnt see posted
Cityofchampions33
11-10-2006, 04:29 PM
New York gets right-handers Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2006/11/10/yankees_trade_gary_sheffield_to_tigers/
If tehre was a trhead prior tot his, I didn't see it, so sorry
riverside sluggers
11-10-2006, 04:50 PM
This looks like a good deal for the Yankees
Claggett and Whelan put up good numbers in the low minors and Sanchez is decent. The concern for the Yankees is obviously that the Claggett and Whelan continue to produce and that Sanchez becomes a contributer sooner than later.
Sheffield's got wrist, shoulder, and back problems and is a real a-hole. If healthy he can really make the Tigers lineup dangerous in the short term but to me that's a big if.
Exactly, Sanchez should be starting games for NY in 2008 if not sooner than that. Barring Yankees are top bidder for Matsuzaka, 2008 rotation...
Phillip Hughes
free agent signing from this offseason (Zito/Schmidt or other)
Chien-Ming Wang
Mike Mussina
Humberto Sanchez
AlexanderTheGreat13
11-10-2006, 05:40 PM
What a trade, great job by Cashman.
Optimist
11-10-2006, 05:43 PM
I know; it's the complete opposite of the type of trade the Yankees are known for making.
Hail Cashman
schillingouttheks
11-10-2006, 05:45 PM
The Yankees' rotation is going to look pretty damn sexy in a couple of years.
Jon_Papelboner
11-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Good move. Guy had no use on the team.
HeadOfSoxNation
11-10-2006, 06:15 PM
This deal works out best for both teams involved. Sheffield didn't have anywhere to play on the Yanks, and the Tigers have enough young pitching talent to be able to move 3 of them to get a consistent big (if not HUGE) bat in their lineup.
Of COURSE the Yanks passed on Linebrink for this deal. Great work by Cashman to work this.
example1
11-10-2006, 07:50 PM
What a trade, great job by Cashman.
Why does everyone see this as a "great" trade. All prospects aside, its much easier to stock your team with talent like Giambi, Sheffield, Abreu, Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Damon, RJ, Mussina, etc., and then trade them for prospects. It's not a coup, its a perennial all-star for 3 very solid prospects.
The only thing that has changed is that Yankee fans and their FO have somehow seen some virtue in patience all of a sudden. It's not hard to trade just one more 14 million dollar superstar to a contending team for good young specs.
The question is whether the Yankee fans are patient enough to wait for Sanchez and Hughes and Wang to develop, albeit it they will be developing with one of the greatest lineups in history behind them, or whether they will trade them for needs to win it all in one year.
This deal is a good fit from both ends. Both dealt from depth to fill a need. Both sides have some risk involved. I will say I'm a little surprised that Dombrowski extended Sheff, although that may have been the price of having a happy Sheff, and you get screwed if you don't have that.
AlexanderTheGreat13
11-10-2006, 08:29 PM
Why does everyone see this as a "great" trade. All prospects aside, its much easier to stock your team with talent like Giambi, Sheffield, Abreu, Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Damon, RJ, Mussina, etc., and then trade them for prospects. It's not a coup, its a perennial all-star for 3 very solid prospects.
The only thing that has changed is that Yankee fans and their FO have somehow seen some virtue in patience all of a sudden. It's not hard to trade just one more 14 million dollar superstar to a contending team for good young specs.
The question is whether the Yankee fans are patient enough to wait for Sanchez and Hughes and Wang to develop, albeit it they will be developing with one of the greatest lineups in history behind them, or whether they will trade them for needs to win it all in one year.
Its a great trade because the Yankees had no use for Sheffield and they still got pretty damn good value for him. Some here thought Sheffield had no value what so ever yet they are walking away with a top pitching prospect and 2 other solid specs and they did it without paying a dime of his contract. I could careless if it is easy or not, the Yankees got value for a player with no value to them (in terms of having a spot on the team) thus its a great trade for them.
a700hitter
11-10-2006, 08:49 PM
This deal is a good fit from both ends. Both dealt from depth to fill a need. Both sides have some risk involved. I will say I'm a little surprised that Dombrowski extended Sheff, although that may have been the price of having a happy Sheff, and you get screwed if you don't have that.
If Sheffield didn't get an extension, he would have been a big problem for the Tigers. Will he play RF for the Tigers? or Mags?
jsinger121
11-10-2006, 08:55 PM
If Sheffield didn't get an extension, he would have been a big problem for the Tigers. Will he play RF for the Tigers? or Mags?
He prolly will DH and split some time in the outfield.
RedSoxRooter
11-10-2006, 08:58 PM
This is a great trade for the Yanks. Maybe the Tigers don't think that this year was a fluke and have the Win Now attitude. But sending off a projected stud pitcher for a really old steroid freak/clubhouse cancer is a bad trade any way you look at it unless it puts you over the top at some point in the next 3 years. And to throw in two good young arms makes it even worse.
Smart move for the Yanks.
jsinger121
11-10-2006, 09:01 PM
When you have Justin Verlander, Jeremy Bonderman, Nate Robertson, Mike Maroth, Kenny Rogers and Andrew Miller waiting in the wings you can make a move like this. Its a good move for both teams.
AlexanderTheGreat13
11-10-2006, 09:21 PM
When you have Justin Verlander, Jeremy Bonderman, Nate Robertson, Mike Maroth, Kenny Rogers and Andrew Miller waiting in the wings you can make a move like this. Its a good move for both teams.
No doubt their pitching depth allowed them to make this trade.
jacksonianmarch
11-10-2006, 09:33 PM
This isnt a good move for the Yankees. This is a fabulous move for the yankees. Humberto Sancez was actually rated in some publications as a better prospect than Phil Hughes. He, Hughes, and Homer Bailey are the three prospects in big league baseball who have been interchanging the title of "best minor league prospect". Add to that the closer who was a op 10 in the tigers system, and oh yeah he is a lefty who throws gas and the other guy who has been very good as well. This is a true coup by Cashman and a sure sign that the balance of power has shifted in the NY front office. They now have a minor league pitching corps that is rivalled by none. Good work cashman.
Optimist
11-10-2006, 09:35 PM
None of the pitchers involved in the deal were left handed.
jacksonianmarch
11-10-2006, 09:38 PM
None of the pitchers involved in the deal were left handed.
just saw that. My bad. The closer they got was also a top 10 prospect, which is what I wanted to convey.
MC Hammer
11-10-2006, 09:42 PM
Wow the tigers are fucking stupid.
"So we're gonna have to beat the Yankees every year ..."
"Yeah but Rivera is close to being done."
"... I got it ... lets trade them a young closer for a 40 year old disgruntled OFer"
"... uh"
riverside sluggers
11-10-2006, 10:43 PM
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_122111.jpg
Optimist
11-10-2006, 10:59 PM
I wonder what his reception at Yankee Stadium will be like. He didnt exactly go out on good terms.
SchillingIsTheNatural
11-11-2006, 11:11 AM
Tigers trade a top pitching prospect for an old man?
Kenny Rogers can't live much longer which would open a spot in there rotation. Looked like a great fit for Sanchez but..... a steroid injected old man in the outfield makes more sense.
Sanchez was like 7th on their young pitcher depth chart.
Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Miller, Miner, and Tata are a good group going forward.
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 05:35 PM
Sanchez was like 7th on their young pitcher depth chart.
Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Miller, Miner, and Tata are a good group going forward.The Yankees picked up his option purely to keep him from the Red Sox. They didn't care what they got. None of these guys will help the Yankees in 2007 and maybe...maybe Sanchez gets a cup of coffee in 2008 if they get some injuries. They will hope anyone of these guys pans out. If not they will use them as trading chips at the deadline. Detroit's Dombrowski wasn't going to give up big time talent for a 38 year old broken down outfielder with a $14 million/year price tag. Yankee fans look at that glass again. It's half empty.:rolleyes:
Optimist
11-11-2006, 06:02 PM
The Yankees picked up his option purely to keep him from the Red Sox. They didn't care what they got. None of these guys will help the Yankees in 2007 and maybe...maybe Sanchez gets a cup of coffee in 2008 if they get some injuries. They will hope anyone of these guys pans out. If not they will use them as trading chips at the deadline. Detroit's Dombrowski wasn't going to give up big time talent for a 38 year old broken down outfielder with a $14 million/year price tag. Yankee fans look at that glass again. It's half empty.:rolleyes:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Folks, if you ever want to see someone who has no idea what they're talking about...here's a prime example.
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 06:04 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Folks, if you ever want to see someone who has no idea what they're talking about...here's a prime example.Give me a ring when one of these guys gets 50 innings with the big team If it happens before the end of '08, I'll get you two ticket to watch your team play in that toilet in the Bronx.:lol:
Optimist
11-11-2006, 06:07 PM
For future reference, I'm a big fan of section 8 in the Upper Deck.
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 06:28 PM
The Yankees picked up his option purely to keep him from the Red Sox. They didn't care what they got. None of these guys will help the Yankees in 2007 and maybe...maybe Sanchez gets a cup of coffee in 2008 if they get some injuries. They will hope anyone of these guys pans out. If not they will use them as trading chips at the deadline. Detroit's Dombrowski wasn't going to give up big time talent for a 38 year old broken down outfielder with a $14 million/year price tag. Yankee fans look at that glass again. It's half empty.:rolleyes:
They gave up one of the best pitching prospects in the bigs who has dominated high levels of the minor leagues. I do not understand your pessimism. This was a raping by Cashman.
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 06:30 PM
Give me a ring when one of these guys gets 50 innings with the big team If it happens before the end of '08, I'll get you two ticket to watch your team play in that toilet in the Bronx.:lol:
Sanchez will log 50 innings by the end of 08 if his arm doesnt explode.
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 06:45 PM
They gave up one of the best pitching prospects in the bigs who has dominated high levels of the minor leagues. I do not understand your pessimism. This was a raping by Cashman.This is the guy? Dominating?
http://www.tigerscentral.com/players.php?pnum=22278
Edit --More updated stats:
http://www.rotowire.com/baseball/player.htm?id=8018
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 06:49 PM
This is the guy? Dominating?
http://www.tigerscentral.com/players.php?pnum=22278
you dont have his #s from 2006. They were real impressive. Here they are.
AA 5-3 1.76ERA 71.2IP 47H 86K 27BB .190BAA
AAA 5-3 3.86ERA 51.1IP 50H 43K 20BB .260BAA and he was shut down with a tired arm.
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 06:50 PM
Sanchez will log 50 innings by the end of 08 if his arm doesnt explode.I edited my post to include a link to his '06 stats. Several arms on the Yankee staff will have to explode for him to log 50 innings by the end of '08.
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 06:51 PM
I edited my post to include a link to his '06 stats. Several arms on the Yankee staff will have to explode for him to log 50 innings by the end of '08.
RJ is going to be in the rotation for one more yr. Mussina will be in the rotation for 2 more yrs. Pavano will be on the team for 2 more yrs. Is there anything else I need to say?
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 07:02 PM
RJ is going to be in the rotation for one more yr. Mussina will be in the rotation for 2 more yrs. Pavano will be on the team for 2 more yrs. Is there anything else I need to say?Of course the logical conclusion from this is that the Yankees will have 2 pups like Hughes and Sanchez to go with Wang in the starting rotation. Yes, those are the Yankees that I know. They always have 3 starters averaging age 25 in their rotation.:lol:
CrespoBlows
11-11-2006, 07:16 PM
If Sanchez continues to pitch well, the Yankees will find room for him.
Who's blocking him? Pavano? Wright?
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 07:31 PM
If Sanchez continues to pitch well, the Yankees will find room for him.
Who's blocking him? Pavano? Wright?Zito, Santana? Who know what happens in '08 and beyond.
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Of course the logical conclusion from this is that the Yankees will have 2 pups like Hughes and Sanchez to go with Wang in the starting rotation. Yes, those are the Yankees that I know. They always have 3 starters averaging age 25 in their rotation.:lol:
That is the thing, these are the Yankees that none of us know. These are Cashman's yankees now. The Yankees had always been known as one of the cheapest organizations in the draft and abroad, with the occasional choice of spending too much money on one draft pick and skimping the rest of the draft. Guys like Brien Taylor were given too much money and guys like Mark Prior were allowed to go. This time, Cashman is running the ship. He drafted a young pitcher in 2003 with his top pick, and he is now one of the top pitching prospects in the game. He just had a draft this past season that was loaded with pitching AND they shelled out the money. Guys like Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy were the top two picks, but the biggest steals came in the later rounds with Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances, 2 guys whose contract demands scared off a few teams, and they got 1st ound talent in the 8th and 9th round respectively. Thing is, Melancon just blew out his elbow, but TJ surgery is an artform or a right of passage now, so no sweat off cash's brow. The Yankees are doing what they have not done for years, developing their own pitching. They have seen how easy it is to get good hitting and how harit is to get quality young pitching, so they are drafting it in abundance. Adding Sanchez and the closer they just nabbed will only further that. Also, when was the last time the yankees dealt off an aging vet for rookies? The last I remember was when they dealt off Ventura for Bubba Crosby and Scott Proctor. Half of that equation worked out.
For the past 5 or 6 yrs, the yankees have died by their own dearth of pitching. The rules were altered to allow teams to hang onto their young pitching, and it has cost the yankees dearly when the postseason rolls around. They got away from their core when they won the WS which was Pettitte and Mo in the staff with vets like Clemens, Wells, and Cone. Right now, the yankees already have one young kid leading the rotation. If any of these kids develop or if the yankees create a pipeline of pitching talent while they use George's money to buy great hitting talent, then god help the majors. George had the right idea pumping money in, but he didnt use his head. Cashman looks to be using his head, and making this deal is evidence of it.
Overall, it is on the Red Sox to swing the balance of power in the east. If the yankees lose out on Matsuzaka, then it will be on them to get Zito or Schmidt or Pettitte etc. If they do not, then 2007 will be a vulnerable yr in the Bronx, but the future is bright. They would have the same top 3 of the rotation, but one yr older (which is only good for 1/3 of that top 3). They would likely try to fill one hole from the minors (Sanchez, Clippard, Hughes) and one hole with Pavano/Karstens/Rasner. That does not look wonderful for 2007 if you are a yankee fan. The sox have to see their window, it is right now. If I were to pick a yr when the sox would have a chance to win the east, 07 is the yr. If all the media reports are wrong and Matsu goes to NY, then god help the major leagues.
CrespoBlows
11-11-2006, 09:27 PM
Zito, Santana? Who know what happens in '08 and beyond.
Zito
Wang
Hughes
Mussina
?????
If Mussina flops, he could be traded.
That is the thing, these are the Yankees that none of us know. These are Cashman's yankees now. The Yankees had always been known as one of the cheapest organizations in the draft and abroad, with the occasional choice of spending too much money on one draft pick and skimping the rest of the draft. Guys like Brien Taylor were given too much money and guys like Mark Prior were allowed to go. This time, Cashman is running the ship. He drafted a young pitcher in 2003 with his top pick, and he is now one of the top pitching prospects in the game. He just had a draft this past season that was loaded with pitching AND they shelled out the money. Guys like Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy were the top two picks, but the biggest steals came in the later rounds with Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances, 2 guys whose contract demands scared off a few teams, and they got 1st ound talent in the 8th and 9th round respectively. Thing is, Melancon just blew out his elbow, but TJ surgery is an artform or a right of passage now, so no sweat off cash's brow. The Yankees are doing what they have not done for years, developing their own pitching. They have seen how easy it is to get good hitting and how harit is to get quality young pitching, so they are drafting it in abundance. Adding Sanchez and the closer they just nabbed will only further that. Also, when was the last time the yankees dealt off an aging vet for rookies? The last I remember was when they dealt off Ventura for Bubba Crosby and Scott Proctor. Half of that equation worked out.
For the past 5 or 6 yrs, the yankees have died by their own dearth of pitching. The rules were altered to allow teams to hang onto their young pitching, and it has cost the yankees dearly when the postseason rolls around. They got away from their core when they won the WS which was Pettitte and Mo in the staff with vets like Clemens, Wells, and Cone. Right now, the yankees already have one young kid leading the rotation. If any of these kids develop or if the yankees create a pipeline of pitching talent while they use George's money to buy great hitting talent, then god help the majors. George had the right idea pumping money in, but he didnt use his head. Cashman looks to be using his head, and making this deal is evidence of it.
Overall, it is on the Red Sox to swing the balance of power in the east. If the yankees lose out on Matsuzaka, then it will be on them to get Zito or Schmidt or Pettitte etc. If they do not, then 2007 will be a vulnerable yr in the Bronx, but the future is bright. They would have the same top 3 of the rotation, but one yr older (which is only good for 1/3 of that top 3). They would likely try to fill one hole from the minors (Sanchez, Clippard, Hughes) and one hole with Pavano/Karstens/Rasner. That does not look wonderful for 2007 if you are a yankee fan. The sox have to see their window, it is right now. If I were to pick a yr when the sox would have a chance to win the east, 07 is the yr. If all the media reports are wrong and Matsu goes to NY, then god help the major leagues.
I disagree here. I truly like what the Yankees are doing, they are finally learning to use their money WISELY. I see the Yankees always having the top payroll in baseball [unless the rules change]. What I believe the Yankees will start to do is to sign their young players to lucrative deals for a long time, thus locking up their core when they are younger. Expect to see the Yankees to lock up Wang soon. That will give them some buying power down the road. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees sign free agents, based on todays market, for about 25 million a year every year starting in 2007 or 2008.
With the Yankees starting to replenish their farm system, look for the Yankees to be able to turn these players into something else they need, either now or down the road.
The Yankees will stop-gap their rotation for now. By trading Wright to the Orioles, as suspected, they will continue to free up money for more suitable players.
I think that the overall decline will hurt the Red Sox more than the Yankees in 2007. Their centerpieces, Ortiz, Ramirez, and Schilling are older than Jeter, Arod, and Wang. The only real worry is Mariano. I will cry the day he retires.
BY the way...um...like I said, Sheffield got traded WITHOUT the Yankees picking up any of his salary. Just like I predicted. Holy cow..and they also got three decent prospects. Wow. I must be really lucky. Others out there [not to name names, but ORS comes to mind] thought I was an idiot to presume so. Gosh, I'm glad they were wrong. They know SO MUCH about baseball, and I'm still learning. I love players who hit quadruples!
Like I often say, go back to sleep.
It's okay, guys. Try real hard, and one day you may get it right. LOL!
MC Hammer
11-11-2006, 10:04 PM
How are the Yankees able to fuck so many teams over .... time and time and time and time again?
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 10:09 PM
How are the Yankees able to fuck so many teams over .... time and time and time and time again?
It is called good management (for once).
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 10:18 PM
I think that the overall decline will hurt the Red Sox more than the Yankees in 2007. Their centerpieces, Ortiz, Ramirez, and Schilling are older than Jeter, Arod, and Wang. The only real worry is Mariano. I will cry the day he retires.What you are saying just does not add up:
26 Wang
31 Arod
32 Jeter
32 Matsui
33 Damon
36 Mo
37 Moose
43 Johnson
25 Papelbon
26 Beckett
26 Matsuzaka
27 Crisp
30 Ortiz
34 Manny
39 Schilling
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 10:21 PM
What you are saying just does not add up:
26 Wang
31 Arod
32 Jeter
32 Matsui
33 Damon
36 Mo
37 Moose
43 Johnson
25 Papelbon
26 Beckett
26 Matsuzaka
27 Crisp
30 Ortiz
34 Manny
39 Schilling
dont throw matsuzaka there yet.
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 10:27 PM
dont throw matsuzaka there yet.
Keep your false hopes alive. The rumor is too prominent. It would be too embarrassing for ESPN if they are wrong on this. Someone would have tipped ESPN off that the rumor was false. MLB doesn't want one of its major business partners to be embarrassed.
Optimist
11-11-2006, 10:30 PM
How are the Yankees able to fuck so many teams over .... time and time and time and time again?
I don't think you should pin this one on the Yankees. I doubt Cashman called up the Tigers and asked for three of their good pitching prospects for an aging, deteriorating outfielder.
BY the way...um...like I said, Sheffield got traded WITHOUT the Yankees picking up any of his salary. Just like I predicted. Holy cow..and they also got three decent prospects. Wow. I must be really lucky. Others out there [not to name names, but ORS comes to mind] thought I was an idiot to presume so. Gosh, I'm glad they were wrong. They know SO MUCH about baseball, and I'm still learning. I love players who hit quadruples!
Like I often say, go back to sleep.
It's okay, guys. Try real hard, and one day you may get it right. LOL!
Holy fuck. What a tool.
You've been wrong on numerous occassions about how things work, and you go off like this the one time you were right. Hilarious.
Seriously, the sleeping bit, it's just not cutting it. A genius like you has to have some material that doesn't leave people unsure whether or not they are being insulted. Try again.
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 10:35 PM
Keep your false hopes alive. The rumor is too prominent. It would be too embarrassing for ESPN if they are wrong on this. Someone would have tipped ESPN off that the rumor was false. MLB doesn't want one of its major business partners to be embarrassed.
I am keeping no hopes alive. I just want this thing to end. This is the first domino to fall. MANY will start to fall further. Matsuzaka's destination will be huge in determining where Zito goes.
a700hitter
11-11-2006, 10:37 PM
BY the way...um...like I said, Sheffield got traded WITHOUT the Yankees picking up any of his salary. Just like I predicted. Holy cow..and they also got three decent prospects. Wow. I must be really lucky. Others out there [not to name names, but ORS comes to mind] thought I was an idiot to presume so. Gosh, I'm glad they were wrong. They know SO MUCH about baseball, and I'm still learning. I love players who hit quadruples!
Like I often say, go back to sleep.
It's okay, guys. Try real hard, and one day you may get it right. LOL!Check my posts. I said that Sheffield would not want to go and would be a clubhouse cancer if...ifhe didn't get an extension. The extension is what made the deal possible. But I wouldn't count on these prospects ever being big contributors. You are underestimating Dombrowski.
MC Hammer
11-11-2006, 10:39 PM
I don't think you should pin this one on the Yankees. I doubt Cashman called up the Tigers and asked for three of their good pitching prospects for an aging, deteriorating outfielder.
I'm blaming the teams letting the Yankees do it. I can't blame the Yanks for taking advantage of dumbass GMs.
jacksonianmarch
11-11-2006, 10:40 PM
I'm blaming the teams letting the Yankees do it. I can't blame the Yanks for taking advantage of dumbass GMs.
The tigers offensive window is very small. Maggs, Pudge, and nobody else in that lineup. They are nto that far off and adding sheff is adding 3 yrs of credibility to the middle of the order.
Optimist
11-11-2006, 10:44 PM
I can't blame the Yanks for taking advantage of dumbass GMs.
Exactly the point I was trying to make.
Holy fuck. What a tool.
You've been wrong on numerous occassions about how things work, and you go off like this the one time you were right. Hilarious.
Seriously, the sleeping bit, it's just not cutting it. A genius like you has to have some material that doesn't leave people unsure whether or not they are being insulted. Try again.
Hmm..being right once is one more time than you have been since I've been here. When was I wrong? I've only made one prediction so far, and been right. No reason to even answer your post about fairness in payrolls at this point. Keep trying dude. Sooner or later you will get lucky. Good luck, lol.
By the way a700, if they pan out great. If not, they got rid of him for nothing, and even that wasn't a bad thing for them. At least they got to control where he goes. The fact another team was willing to give him an extension was their choice. The Yankees got more than pretty much everyone here thought possible. The Red Sox look to have paid through the nose to get Matsuzaka, and it has a high potential for not being worth the money.
If anything, the Matsuzaka signing shows that the Sox have the ability to pay like the Yankees IF THEY WANT TO. Which is what I have been saying all along. Guess you guys can't cry poverty anymore. If the rumors are true, can you imagine the heat you guys would have given us for blowing away everyone with a 38-45 million bid?
Your FO claim of not being able to hang with the Yankees on the Damon signing sure looks like a case of serious bullshit, doesn't it?
Hmm..being right once is one more time than you have been since I've been here. When was I wrong? I've only made one prediction so far, and been right. No reason to even answer your post about fairness in payrolls at this point. Keep trying dude. Sooner or later you will get lucky. Good luck, lol.
It's interesting you use that word in red. Considering how little understanding you have shown for revenues, revenue sharing, free-agent compensation, and modern statistics it's impossible to believe your opinion about Sheff was anything more than hope. In other words, you just posted what you want to happen, and then congratulate yourself for being "right" in your non-analysis. Luck is very interesting word, and it seems to fit well here.
You can't answer my post about payroll fairness because you've got nothing on it, and you are good at showing it.
riverside sluggers
11-12-2006, 08:13 AM
Your FO claim of not being able to hang with the Yankees on the Damon signing sure looks like a case of serious bullshit, doesn't it?
The FO didnt counter offer with Boras because he told them Damon had a 5 year offer on the table, it was more about the length of contract than it had to do with money.
a700hitter
11-12-2006, 08:53 AM
By the way a700, if they pan out great. If not, they got rid of him for nothing, and even that wasn't a bad thing for them. At least they got to control where he goes. The fact another team was willing to give him an extension was their choice. The Yankees got more than pretty much everyone here thought possible.Kudos for keeping Sheffield from the Red Sox and sending him to the AL Champs that kicked their asses in the playoffs. Let's have a round of applause.:rolleyes:
It's interesting you use that word in red. Considering how little understanding you have shown for revenues, revenue sharing, free-agent compensation, and modern statistics it's impossible to believe your opinion about Sheff was anything more than hope. In other words, you just posted what you want to happen, and then congratulate yourself for being "right" in your non-analysis. Luck is very interesting word, and it seems to fit well here.
You can't answer my post about payroll fairness because you've got nothing on it, and you are good at showing it.
Just to prove a point, and to let your fellow Sox fans know, I will answer your post in detail about payroll fairness tomorrow. I'm too tired to deal with it tonight. Apparently, you need your nose shoved in it, it's not good enough that your office has demonstrated exactly what I have been saying, but now I have to explain it to you since you still can't get it. Fair enough.
I know, I know, I understand nothing about baseball, revenues, free agent compensation, how to tie my shoes, walk and chew gum at the same time, etc., but it shows that what little you know about baseball is circumvented by your inability to realize when someone exhibits they know more about a specific subject, case, or point in general. The truth is, if you knew half as much as you think you know, you'd know ten times more than you actually do.
It's funny how what I called happening was right on the money, both about Sheffield and about the Red Sox fiscal ability. However, you decide to call it luck. So I'm the idiot who got lucky, and you are the baseball genius who for once got it wrong. Holy shit, would I love to have you in my fantasy league. The average guy in my league would smoke you...but that would be luck...nobody can know more about baseball than you. We should just give you the trophy right now.
I'll accept that my "wishful thinking" was luck if you accept that your prediction was complete and utter stupidity, mixed with a lack of understanding about how baseball economics work. In other words, fat chance, buddy. It's not that I am some baseball soothsayer, or have inside knowledge. I just use common sense, one ability you are lacking, and I am able to look at things from an objective point of view, another ability you are lacking.
Are you really this clueless? I'm getting to the point where I am losing IQ points debating things with you.
The FO didnt counter offer with Boras because he told them Damon had a 5 year offer on the table, it was more about the length of contract than it had to do with money.
Come on buddy...the Yankees signed him for four years. He stated they had a five year offer..it's part of negotiating, ask for more, settle for less [or the opposite from the club's point of view]. It's about the money, not the length. Most players are willing to take less if they can sign for more. The FO had the money, they just goofed.
Kudos for keeping Sheffield from the Red Sox and sending him to the AL Champs that kicked their asses in the playoffs. Let's have a round of applause.:rolleyes:
Better than to go to the Sox where we would have to face him 19 times instead of 6 with the Tigers. Also, with the Twins, a resurgent Indians team, and the White Sox, it's anyone's division. I'm sure that Cashman would have rather have traded him to the NL, but in the end, the best quality of players he was getting back was from Detroit. Makes no sense otherwise.
jacksonianmarch
11-13-2006, 06:07 AM
Come on buddy...the Yankees signed him for four years. He stated they had a five year offer..it's part of negotiating, ask for more, settle for less [or the opposite from the club's point of view]. It's about the money, not the length. Most players are willing to take less if they can sign for more. The FO had the money, they just goofed.
Better than to go to the Sox where we would have to face him 19 times instead of 6 with the Tigers. Also, with the Twins, a resurgent Indians team, and the White Sox, it's anyone's division. I'm sure that Cashman would have rather have traded him to the NL, but in the end, the best quality of players he was getting back was from Detroit. Makes no sense otherwise.
I disagree on the top quote. Aging players these days care more about length than they do about money as long as the money is close. As a player gets past the 33-35 mark which this contract takes Damon, they want stability, not to be moved around as a nomad until they unceremoniously retire. On the other point, I find it ludicrous that Theo was "duped" by Boras's demands. He has dealt with Boras before, he knows his game, and being duped by him is a sign that he might not be that great of a GM after all.
Just to prove a point, and to let your fellow Sox fans know, I will answer your post in detail about payroll fairness tomorrow. I'm too tired to deal with it tonight. Apparently, you need your nose shoved in it, it's not good enough that your office has demonstrated exactly what I have been saying, but now I have to explain it to you since you still can't get it. Fair enough.
I know, I know, I understand nothing about baseball, revenues, free agent compensation, how to tie my shoes, walk and chew gum at the same time, etc., but it shows that what little you know about baseball is circumvented by your inability to realize when someone exhibits they know more about a specific subject, case, or point in general. The truth is, if you knew half as much as you think you know, you'd know ten times more than you actually do.
It's funny how what I called happening was right on the money, both about Sheffield and about the Red Sox fiscal ability. However, you decide to call it luck. So I'm the idiot who got lucky, and you are the baseball genius who for once got it wrong. Holy shit, would I love to have you in my fantasy league. The average guy in my league would smoke you...but that would be luck...nobody can know more about baseball than you. We should just give you the trophy right now.
I'll accept that my "wishful thinking" was luck if you accept that your prediction was complete and utter stupidity, mixed with a lack of understanding about how baseball economics work. In other words, fat chance, buddy. It's not that I am some baseball soothsayer, or have inside knowledge. I just use common sense, one ability you are lacking, and I am able to look at things from an objective point of view, another ability you are lacking.
Are you really this clueless? I'm getting to the point where I am losing IQ points debating things with you.
So I'm supposed to think you know about revenues when you claim the Sox and Yankees have equitable revenue streams? Only a complete an utter moron thinks this is true. Looks like you make the club.
You know about free-agent compensation? Right, that's why you said they wouldn't get draft picks for Sheffield had they let him go because of his off year. Wrong again. He never got classified by Elias because they picked up his option, but Gagne made it as a type-A because they consider injuries and past success, just like I said. This is exactly what would have happened with Sheff. Keep showing us what you know, just provide the necessary microscope to see it.
Show me where my prediction was wrong, go ahead. You can't. I didn't make one. I only said that people were overrating Sheffield's trade value. You started off thinking you'd get Lidge for him. What you got, while full of potential, is no where near the proven commodity Lidge has been. I said you'd have to pick up salary to get good value in return. They didn't have to pick up salary, but they didn't get good value either. They got good potential.
You are losing IQ points? Son, you need to have some first to lose them.
So I'm supposed to think you know about revenues when you claim the Sox and Yankees have equitable revenue streams? Only a complete an utter moron thinks this is true. Looks like you make the club.
You know about free-agent compensation? Right, that's why you said they wouldn't get draft picks for Sheffield had they let him go because of his off year. Wrong again. He never got classified by Elias because they picked up his option, but Gagne made it as a type-A because they consider injuries and past success, just like I said. This is exactly what would have happened with Sheff. Keep showing us what you know, just provide the necessary microscope to see it.
Show me where my prediction was wrong, go ahead. You can't. I didn't make one. I only said that people were overrating Sheffield's trade value. You started off thinking you'd get Lidge for him. What you got, while full of potential, is no where near the proven commodity Lidge has been. I said you'd have to pick up salary to get good value in return. They didn't have to pick up salary, but they didn't get good value either. They got good potential.
First of all, the Yankees would have gotten some sort of free agent compensation. However, he would have been free to sign with a direct division rival, and the Yankees got a hell of a lot more value by trading him than letting him walk.
You are losing IQ points? Son, you need to have some first to lose them.
I said they have similar revenue streams. You disagreed. If anything, your foray with Matsuzaka shows that the revenue streams are much closer than you think. Why am I even debating this with you? Just go to any web site that has the details of the Matsuzaka posting. I have stated this before, and I will state it again, the Red Sox have the ABILITY to compete with the Yankees financially. They simply choose not to. The gap, which was 70 million in payroll last year, is not a true indicator of the difference in revenue streams.
You also stated that the Yankees would not be able to get rid of Sheffield without eating some of his salary. I did. I said that the Yankees would find some team to take his entire salary, and get something in return. They got more than I thought they would. I would have loved to have seen Lidge, or Linebrink, but just because we want someone, doesn't mean that team will give him up. Sanchez becomes the #2 pitcher in our farm system. They've also increased their trading chips. All for nothing, really.
Did they get more than you thought they would, considering the Yankees didn't pay a dime to offset his salary? I would find it very hard to believe if you said no.
jacksonianmarch
11-13-2006, 06:07 PM
can you two ladies take this fight into the fights thread please? It is ruining what was a good thread.
It's a pissing contest he can't win. I'm done with it as far as I'm concerned. The Red Sox front office proved my point. He can argue 'till he's blue in the face, but money talks.
a700hitter
11-13-2006, 09:34 PM
I only said that people were overrating Sheffield's trade value. You started off thinking you'd get Lidge for him. What you got, while full of potential, is no where near the proven commodity Lidge has been. I said you'd have to pick up salary to get good value in return. They didn't have to pick up salary, but they didn't get good value either. They got good potential.ORS I remember you posting those thought, as mine were much the same. I would go a little further in my assessment. I would conclude that they got some potential, not good potential in return.
jacksonianmarch
01-27-2007, 08:55 PM
Sanchez will be reporting to ST as a starter rather than a reliever as was indicated previously. He will get his shot at the bigs in the 5 slot when Pavana breaks a nail.
jacksonianmarch
09-18-2008, 10:01 PM
Humberto Sanchez made his long awaited MLB debut tonight, throwing a scoreless inning, striking out 1. He was sitting mid 90s and had a nice curve tonight. Good for him.
26 to 6
09-19-2008, 02:06 AM
He looked good tonight. Nice night at the beautiful ballpark in which I will probably never step foot in again. But anyway, I was real happy to see him in there tonight, throwing to Cervelli, who if you remember broke his wrist during ST when Johnny Gomes came crashing into the plate.
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