Yankees trying for Clemens, earlier start to season?

[jacksonianmarch]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/12/31/yankees.johnson/

The Clemens to NY rumors are starting to heat up. Obviously, it is media speculation at this point, but from the sounds of it, Roger hates RJ. moving RJ makes things a world better for him to potentially return to NY. And while most people have him pencilled into Houston, sources close to him say he misses the drama of NY and would like a return trip. The attempt by the yankees is to try and lure Roger to the Bronx for an earlier start than June 22nd, even if they need to offer a contract in excess of 20 million. There are TONS of Clemens articles today, will post them all (and some are from the boston papers and all signs point to NY).

[jacksonianmarch]

well, a lot of the same stuff. Nothing revolutionary.

[CrespoBlows]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/12/31/yankees.johnson/

The Clemens to NY rumors are starting to heat up. Obviously, it is media speculation at this point, but from the sounds of it, Roger hates RJ. moving RJ makes things a world better for him to potentially return to NY. And while most people have him pencilled into Houston, sources close to him say he misses the drama of NY and would like a return trip. The attempt by the yankees is to try and lure Roger to the Bronx for an earlier start than June 22nd, even if they need to offer a contract in excess of 20 million. There are TONS of Clemens articles today, will post them all (and some are from the boston papers and all signs point to NY).

They all seem to saying that the Yankees will TRY for Clemens. No word on whether he's going to actually go there.

[jacksonianmarch]

They all seem to saying that the Yankees will TRY for Clemens. No word on whether he's going to actually go there.

If Clemens really despised RJ as much as is speculated, then I have to think the fog is lifting a bit. I dont think Houston is waiting for him this season. Williams was brought in as was Jennings to replace Pettitte and Clemens. I think he'll find Houston offering a sub 10mil offer for half season, and he wont fly with that.

Consider this for a second. Boston has no opening for him in the rotation. NY now does. Boston has nobody he played with at all left on that roster. NY has Jeter, Posada, Mariano and then his "favorite manager" in Torre. Boston has none of his friends on that team aside from a kid he inspired so long ago in Schilling. NY has his best friend in Pettitte. NY right now, on paper is the better team, and going to NY tips the scales ever further. I think it would be blind fandom to think that Clemens to NY isnt a likely scenario. Who knows what he is thinking and he could all of a sudden turn around and go to Texas for all we know. But the stars are aligning for a Bronx return. Lets see if he takes it.

[a700hitter]

If Clemens really despised RJ as much as is speculated, then I have to think the fog is lifting a bit. I dont think Houston is waiting for him this season. Williams was brought in as was Jennings to replace Pettitte and Clemens. I think he'll find Houston offering a sub 10mil offer for half season, and he wont fly with that.

Consider this for a second. Boston has no opening for him in the rotation. NY now does. Boston has nobody he played with at all left on that roster. NY has Jeter, Posada, Mariano and then his "favorite manager" in Torre. Boston has none of his friends on that team aside from a kid he inspired so long ago in Schilling. NY has his best friend in Pettitte. NY right now, on paper is the better team, and going to NY tips the scales ever further. I think it would be blind fandom to think that Clemens to NY isnt a likely scenario. Who knows what he is thinking and he could all of a sudden turn around and go to Texas for all we know. But the stars are aligning for a Bronx return. Lets see if he takes it.Here come your Dice-K type delusions again., I guess we will be treated to a whole host of unsubstantiated theories about Clemens coming to NY. I'm on record, and I will not bore you with long-winded theories and rationalizations. If he doesn't go to Houston, he will come to Boston. As for there not being a spot in the Red Sox rotation, I am still laughing. Wakefield will get a non-stop, first class ticket to the pen as the long man faster than you can believe.

[jacksonianmarch]

just hold your ears, sit back and pray my friend. Face it, if old clem is truly considering leaving houston, he'll be in pinstripes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1460000/images/_1462930_roger300.jpg

get a good look baby! LOL.

[a700hitter]

just hold your ears, sit back and pray my friend. Face it, if old clem is truly considering leaving houston, he'll be in pinstripes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1460000/images/_1462930_roger300.jpg

get a good look baby! LOL.If you want to know where Clemens will go look for the best financial opportunity. Everything else is just empty rationalization.

BTW: Just wanted to remind you that the Dice-man did not goe back to the Lions. You were pretty sure about that being the result of the FO Bullshit offer of $7-8 million/year.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you want to know where Clemens will go look for the best financial opportunity. Everything else is just empty rationalization.

BTW: Just wanted to remind you that the Dice-man did not goe back to the Lions. You were pretty sure about that being the result of the FO Bullshit offer of $7-8 million/year.

Dice K didnt have any other options in the majors. Big Clem is a FA. He'll be bought by NY if he opens up the bidding outside of Houston. I guarantee it!

[CrespoBlows]

If Clemens really despised RJ as much as is speculated, then I have to think the fog is lifting a bit. I dont think Houston is waiting for him this season. Williams was brought in as was Jennings to replace Pettitte and Clemens. I think he'll find Houston offering a sub 10mil offer for half season, and he wont fly with that.

Houston isn't going to be beaten out for Clemens. Why would the snub Clemens? So they can face a fanbase revolt? He's going back to Houston. He lives twenty minutes from the stadium, and they are going to pay him fairly.

Do you seriously think that Williams was brought in to replace Clemens? That's probably the most asinine thing I've ever read.


Consider this for a second. Boston has no opening for him in the rotation. NY now does.


NY right now, on paper is the better team, and going to NY tips the scales ever further.

New York has two glaring holes at the back-end of their rotation, yet they're the stronger team? Amazing.


NY has his best friend in Pettitte.

What are they, gay? He's probably going to go to where his family is. That's in Houston.


I think it would be blind fandom to think that Clemens to NY isnt a likely scenario.

It's blind fandom to think that Houston is going to lowball him.

[jacksonianmarch]

the yankees have one glaring hole in their rotation if RJ goes. If you are gonna lock down one spot on the top with Matsuzaka, you have to give us a spot on our bottom of the rotation with Igawa. Our 5 spot is gonna be wide open. Pavano, Karstens and Rasner can fight it out until Clemens comes to claim the spot.

[CrespoBlows]

the yankees have one glaring hole in their rotation if RJ goes. If you are gonna lock down one spot on the top with Matsuzaka, you have to give us a spot on our bottom of the rotation with Igawa. Our 5 spot is gonna be wide open. Pavano, Karstens and Rasner can fight it out until Clemens comes to claim the spot.

Why? Matsuzaka is twice the pitcher Igawa is. Igawa can't break a pane of glass with his fastball, plus his extreme flyball tendencies are going to cripple him in the AL East. If he keeps his ERA in the low 5.00's then he'll be a success, but that's not what you want out of your 4th starter.

[jacksonianmarch]

You want durability out of your 4th starter. Igawa averaged 200IP for the past 6 seasons. Plus, the fact that he led the league in K's 3 times doesnt get any credit here, cmon now. If you are gonna throw your hat in the ring thinking Matsuzaka is an ace, then you gotta give us the theory that Igawa can at least be a 4.

[a700hitter]

Dice K didnt have any other options in the majors.You didn't grasp that no matter how many times I reminded you about it. Was it you or Gom that engaged in all the scenarios of Boras challenging the posting system, buying the contract from Seibu, etc., etc. I am pretty sure it was you. You didn't listen to sound reasoning then and you are not listening now.
Big Clem is a FA. He'll be bought by NY if he opens up the bidding outside of Houston. I guarantee it!You are missing the bigger picture. Boston and NY and probably even Houston can offer similar types of one year or pro-rated one year packages. They were within pennies of each other last year. He went with Houston, because it gave him the money plus his comfort. And he will go that way again if Houston throws in. If Houston opts out, Boston and the Yankees will offer essentially the same one-year package. The decision will be made by other factors. The allure of the enormous additional marketing possibilities in Boston will tilt the scales in Boston's favor. I've explained this for the last time. I'm not going to be a broken record like you were on Dice-K. When he makes his decision, one of us will rub this post in the others face.

[jacksonianmarch]

Handshake deal then? I think someone should be somebody's bitch in their sig line for a month if Clem chooses an AL East team. If he goes back to houston, none of us win. Deal?

[a700hitter]

Handshake deal then? I think someone should be somebody's bitch in their sig line for a month if Clem chooses an AL East team. If he goes back to houston, none of us win. Deal?Deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nice, you're gonna be my bitch 700. All in good fun.

[CrespoBlows]

You want durability out of your 4th starter. Igawa averaged 200IP for the past 6 seasons. Plus, the fact that he led the league in K's 3 times doesnt get any credit here, cmon now. If you are gonna throw your hat in the ring thinking Matsuzaka is an ace, then you gotta give us the theory that Igawa can at least be a 4.

Matsuzaka throws five pitches for strikes, all of them are considered to be plus pitches. Igawa just has that curveball. In Japan, hitters are more inclined to chase those pitches, over here, they'll be inclined to lay off of it. He's going to have some serious trouble in MLB.

[a700hitter]

Nice, you're gonna be my bitch 700. All in good fun.More Jacksonian Delusions. That will be your username when Clemens takes the Fenway mound to pitch to the visiting team.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

More Jacksonian Delusions. That will be your username when Clemens takes the Fenway mound to pitch to the visiting team.

I'm not sure who Clemens will sign with, but I think that there is at least a good chance he will come to the Yankees. What makes you so sure that it isn't even a possibility?

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure who Clemens will sign with, but I think that there is at least a good chance he will come to the Yankees. What makes you so sure that it isn't even a possibility?Of course it is a possibility, but I think it is much more likely that he finishes with the Red Sox.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01012007/sports/yankees/yankees_push_for_rocket_yankees_andrew_marchand.ht m

Yankees push for Rocket. Looks like a full court press on the Rocket starting NOW! Go get him Yankees, yahooooza. Happy Frickin New Year all.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Of course it is a possibility, but I think it is much more likely that he finishes with the Red Sox.

...is that based on anything or is that just your opinion?

[riverside sluggers]

Matsuzaka throws five pitches for strikes, all of them are considered to be plus pitches. Igawa just has that curveball. In Japan, hitters are more inclined to chase those pitches, over here, they'll be inclined to lay off of it. He's going to have some serious trouble in MLB.

Igawa's fastball also reaches the :o 87 - 90 range, and has a tendency to keep it above the belt. That's going do wonders in the AL East, I'll be surprised if his HR's allowed is below 30

[jacksonianmarch]

Igawa's fastball also reaches the :o 87 - 90 range, and has a tendency to keep it above the belt. That's going do wonders in the AL East, I'll be surprised if his HR's allowed is below 30

He somehow K's a ton of people though. He must be sneaky fast. BTW, you missed another plus pitch. Hs changeup is actually his best pitch. Plus change, plus curve, plus command and control, average to below average fastball. He really sounds like the Japanese Barry Zito. Then again, I wasnt an advocate of Zito to the Bronx, so whatever.

[a700hitter]

...is that based on anything or is that just your opinion?It's my opinion in light of the facts. My reasoning is in several of my posts.

[jacksonianmarch]

your "facts" continue to include the ideal that he will somehow have more marketing opps in Boston than in NY. Boston has just as many stars now as the yankees do, so it isnt like he'll be the lone star on a team of nobodies. Then you factor in how NY is the mecca for advertising and marketing and your theory on that account holds no water. If you feel that his want to "complete the circle" is the reason for your ideal, then I cannot argue with you there, but will respectfully disagree. If you think that he'll get more lucrative marketing deals or ad deals in Boston, you are not basing that on sound judgement.

[a700hitter]

your "facts" continue to include the ideal that he will somehow have more marketing opps in Boston than in NY. Boston has just as many stars now as the yankees do, so it isnt like he'll be the lone star on a team of nobodies. Then you factor in how NY is the mecca for advertising and marketing and your theory on that account holds no water. If you feel that his want to "complete the circle" is the reason for your ideal, then I cannot argue with you there, but will respectfully disagree. If you think that he'll get more lucrative marketing deals or ad deals in Boston, you are not basing that on sound judgement.You just don't get it. You have no idea the icon status that Clemens had in Boston and would have again if he returned for a farewell. He never approached anything close to that status in NY. It has nothing to do with the number stars on each team.

[ORS]

your "facts" continue to include the ideal that he will somehow have more marketing opps in Boston than in NY. Boston has just as many stars now as the yankees do, so it isnt like he'll be the lone star on a team of nobodies. Then you factor in how NY is the mecca for advertising and marketing and your theory on that account holds no water. If you feel that his want to "complete the circle" is the reason for your ideal, then I cannot argue with you there, but will respectfully disagree. If you think that he'll get more lucrative marketing deals or ad deals in Boston, you are not basing that on sound judgement.
Why? Him returning to Boston is an epic storyline. That will get huge amounts of national and international media attention, meaning huge national and international marketing possibilities. A return to NY just won't generate that kind of drama/hype. That's no knock on NY or the NY market, but the history just isn't there. Clemens was never a beloved son in NY. When he left, despite the faux-retirement, it was on much better terms than when he left Boston. All other things being equal, NY is the better place to market yourself. But they aren't equal, and this story will trancend the region, so it doesn't even come close, IMO.

[jacksonianmarch]

The operative term is "reached". That time is passed my friend. Coming back to NY will open up many more opportunities for him, and I'll tell you what. If he leads NY back to the WS after 6 yrs of debauchery and debachle, then he'll be a big time hero. Boston no longer has the whole lovable losers, or heartbreak city title attached to it now that it won 2 yrs back. If the sox had not won a WS, then I'd follow you a bit. But now, the sox dont have that draw of breaking the curse.

Plus, I think the bloom came off the rose when he was forced out well before his time. And btw, if he wants to go into the hall as a yankee, he'll need to put in another yr.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I have a funny feeling Clemens will play for the team that writes the biggest check.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a funny feeling Clemens will play for the team that writes the biggest check.

I think Boston or NY would have to seriously outbid Houston, because if you factor in cost of living and taxes, Houston will make that bank go further.

[a700hitter]

The operative term is "reached". That time is passed my friend. Coming back to NY will open up many more opportunities for him, and I'll tell you what. If he leads NY back to the WS after 6 yrs of debauchery and debachle, then he'll be a big time hero. Boston no longer has the whole lovable losers, or heartbreak city title attached to it now that it won 2 yrs back. If the sox had not won a WS, then I'd follow you a bit. But now, the sox dont have that draw of breaking the curse.

Plus, I think the bloom came off the rose when he was forced out well before his time. And btw, if he wants to go into the hall as a yankee, he'll need to put in another yr. Again, you are just not getting it. He would not have to win a championship in Boston to get a heroes welcome. It would be the return of the Prodigal Son. He wouldn';t have to do a thing to earn the adulation of the fans except don the Red Sox uniform. You don't understand Red Sox fans or the region, but Roger and his agents do understand.

[a700hitter]

I think Boston or NY would have to seriously outbid Houston, because if you factor in cost of living and taxes, Houston will make that bank go further.They will all bid about the same. The only question is whether Houston will have any interest. If they are interested, they will get him.

[jacksonianmarch]

I understand the region very well. Grew up in NE, lived in Mass for a long time. Clemens was not thought of highly when he left to Toronto. Then he was reviled while he was a yankee. Now, 3 yrs pass, and he is some sort of prodigal son?

So let me get this straight. He wont go back to the manager he loved playing for, the organization he wants to go into the HOF with, the teammates he won WS rings with, the organization that will undoubtedly put up the biggest bid, the organization who just signed his best friend whom he has played with for 8 seasons, and the place with the most extra-baseball cash opportunities for the feeling of the fans in Boston? Yeah, I see that happening. Also, if the sox go over the luxury tax again, they will be 3rd time offenders and their % goes up to 40%. I know Cashman doesnt give a rats ass, but would John Henry be willing to throw 20mil at Clemens knowing that it really is 28mil for a 45 yr old pitcher? Logic, 700 my boy, is always better than the warm and fuzzies you may get from thinking about a certain situation. While we are at it, I heard Johnny Damon wants to return to Kansas City and ARod wants to go back to Seattle cause the prodigal son feel is worth way more than anything else in their mind. (just kidding).

[a700hitter]

I understand the region very well. Grew up in NE, lived in Mass for a long time. Clemens was not thought of highly when he left to Toronto. Then he was reviled while he was a yankee. Now, 3 yrs pass, and he is some sort of prodigal son?

So let me get this straight. He wont go back to the manager he loved playing for, the organization he wants to go into the HOF with, the teammates he won WS rings with, the organization that will undoubtedly put up the biggest bid, the organization who just signed his best friend whom he has played with for 8 seasons, and the place with the most extra-baseball cash opportunities for the feeling of the fans in Boston? Yeah, I see that happening. Also, if the sox go over the luxury tax again, they will be 3rd time offenders and their % goes up to 40%. I know Cashman doesnt give a rats ass, but would John Henry be willing to throw 20mil at Clemens knowing that it really is 28mil for a 45 yr old pitcher? Logic, 700 my boy, is always better than the warm and fuzzies you may get from thinking about a certain situation. While we are at it, I heard Johnny Damon wants to return to Kansas City and ARod wants to go back to Seattle cause the prodigal son feel is worth way more than anything else in their mind. (just kidding).It's got nothing to do with warm and fuzzies. It's got to do with $. You are in Dice-K mode here. You've got yourself convinced, and you are not processing the other side of the story. We've gone through this broken record argument before. Clemens doesn't give a rats ass about warm and fuzzies, but he'll give the fans what they want if it means $ in his pocket. it's called a marketing opportunity. Knock knock is anyone home, Jacksonian. What makes you think the Yankees will make a blow out bid. The Astros, Yankees and Red Sox made essentially the same bids last year. All of a sudden Cashman is going to blow away the field for Clemens when he didn't do it last year? That doesn't make sense.

BTW: When Clemens went to Toronto, he was welcomed back to Fenway as a hero as he kicked our ass.

[jacksonianmarch]

And how many times do I need to tell you my friend that you are more marketable in cities where there are more marketing opps. NYC is the biggest city in america. It is also the Mecca for advertising, ask any advertising executive and they'll tell you straight out (my wife is one, so I dont have to go very far). Combine big city with marketing Mecca on perhaps the most world renowned team in sports worldwide and then take the best pitcher of our era and return him there. Nobody can beat that 700. Not even the warm and fuzzy feel of NESN specials closing the circle on Clemens.

[ORS]

And how many times do I need to tell you my friend that you are more marketable in cities where there are more marketing opps. NYC is the biggest city in america. It is also the Mecca for advertising, ask any advertising executive and they'll tell you straight out (my wife is one, so I dont have to go very far). Combine big city with marketing Mecca on perhaps the most world renowned team in sports worldwide and then take the best pitcher of our era and return him there. Nobody can beat that 700. Not even the warm and fuzzy feel of NESN specials closing the circle on Clemens.
The problem with your weak argument is that you limit his market impact to only the NESN market. Clemens returning to Boston is a national/international story of a magnitude that can't be matched by a return to NY. That, despite your attempts to ignore it, is what tips the marketing scale in Boston's favor.

Now, you bring up very good points about JWH not wanting to go over the LT threshold, and about him wanting to play where Pettitte is playing. I'm not so sure about his desire to go into the HOF as a Yankee. That comment came when he was wearing the uniform and pissed off at previous Boston management. The new group has made strides to mend that bridge, so I don't think old emotions are still in play.

[a700hitter]

And how many times do I need to tell you my friend that you are more marketable in cities where there are more marketing opps. NYC is the biggest city in america. It is also the Mecca for advertising, ask any advertising executive and they'll tell you straight out (my wife is one, so I dont have to go very far). Combine big city with marketing Mecca on perhaps the most world renowned team in sports worldwide and then take the best pitcher of our era and return him there. Nobody can beat that 700. Not even the warm and fuzzy feel of NESN specials closing the circle on Clemens.NY does have the biggest and most prestigious advertising firms in the country. One of the reasons they are good is because they know where the markets are. They may conceive the marketing strategies, but those opportunities are not always in NY. The client does not have to live or work in NY to put a NY marketing firm to work. Clemens biggest market after retirement would not be NY if he were to return to Boston for a farewell tour. You obviously can't see it. If you are trying to convince me that Clemens ever had or will have as big a following in NY as he did and could have again in Boston, I'd have to say that you are in Dice-K delusion mode.

BTW it is not lost on Clemens, his attorneys or even the NY marketing firms that the market in Boston is a maturing market. The 15, 20 and 25 year old fans when Clemens left town will be earning more and more money for a number of years.

[jacksonianmarch]

Man, you truly have travelled deep into your delusion. I'll wake you up when he signs in NY and then you'll be my bitch (sig wise).

[a700hitter]

Man, you truly have travelled deep into your delusion. I'll wake you up when he signs in NY and then you'll be my bitch (sig wise).Yes, and I was delusional about Dice-K too. Oh no, that was you.:D

[Mr Crunchy]

im all for mr april to pitch in ny this season
distracting self centered maggot that he is
he'll fit in well with the ego maniacs that have prevented them from winning this century

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Yes, and I was delusional about Dice-K too. Oh no, that was you.:D

The Red Sox win one bidding war (a blind one at that) and you get some serious confidence. We will see how it all plays out, but the Yanks are still yet to be outbid on the regular FA market for a player they truly want. I don't expect this to change anytime soon.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox win one bidding war (a blind one at that) and you get some serious confidence. We will see how it all plays out, but the Yanks are still yet to be outbid on the regular FA market for a player they truly want. I don't expect this to change anytime soon.You too have missed the point. Swing and a miss 26. Jacksonian's delusions to which I am referring had nothing to do with the the bidding process, but rather the negotiating process where Jacksonian engaged in one delusional/conspiracy theory after another for three weeks only to have Dice-K to sign for the insulting sum of $8.5 million a year. Let's make something crystal clear, because a number of you are not reading posts very carefully. I am not claiming the Red Sox will outbid either Houston or NY. I think they will all bid about the same if they want him. if Houston enters the bidding, they'll get him because of he has a long term contract with them after he retires, his son is in the organization, and he will not have to make road trips. If Houston does n't enter the sweepstakes, Boston has more to offer to the Rocket in future years. You can dispute that if you want, but after an athletes playing days are over he has nothing to trade on but his good name. Why wouldn't he want to improve his branding in New England. He'd be a fool if he didn't. His branding in NY was never anything special, and he'd have to win a WS with the Yankees in '07 to have any hope of materially improving his branding in NY. In Boston, all he would have to do is put on the uni and take the mound. That being said there does exist the possibility that the Yankees blow out the competition on the bid, but I just don't see that happening, because they didn't do it last year.

BTW your manager has expressed that he would not tolerate the Rocket not making road trips. Francona and the Red Sox are used to coddling prima donas.

[Coco's Disciples]

I think Boston or NY would have to seriously outbid Houston, because if you factor in cost of living and taxes, Houston will make that bank go further.

I just can't believe he would go for the money rather than the wins...if I were him, I'd rather have my last year be a championship where I made a little less than a 3rd place finish with a little more.

[example1]

You too have missed the point. Swing and a miss 26. Jacksonian's delusions to which I am referring had nothing to do with the the bidding process, but rather the negotiating process where Jacksonian engaged in one delusional/conspiracy theory after another for three weeks only to have Dice-K to sign for the insulting sum of $8.5 million a year. Let's make something crystal clear, because a number of you are not reading posts very carefully. I am not claiming the Red Sox will outbid either Houston or NY. I think they will all bid about the same if they want him. if Houston enters the bidding, they'll get him because of he has a long term contract with them after he retires, his son is in the organization, and he will not have to make road trips. If Houston does n't enter the sweepstakes, Boston has more to offer to the Rocket in future years. You can dispute that if you want, but after an athletes playing days are over he has nothing to trade on but his good name. Why wouldn't he want to improve his branding in New England. He'd be a fool if he didn't. His branding in NY was never anything special, and he'd have to win a WS with the Yankees in '07 to have any hope of materially improving his branding in NY. In Boston, all he would have to do is put on the uni and take the mound. That being said there does exist the possibility that the Yankees blow out the competition on the bid, but I just don't see that happening, because they didn't do it last year.

BTW your manager has expressed that he would not tolerate the Rocket not making road trips. Francona and the Red Sox are used to coddling prima donas.

An excellent post. I think if the Sox were to land Clemens it would be an absolute coup, given they've already signed matsuzaka.

Clemens
Schilling
Matsuzaka
Beckett
Papelbon

nasty.

[Gom]

You too have missed the point. Swing and a miss 26. Jacksonian's delusions to which I am referring had nothing to do with the the bidding process, but rather the negotiating process where Jacksonian engaged in one delusional/conspiracy theory after another for three weeks only to have Dice-K to sign for the insulting sum of $8.5 million a year. Let's make something crystal clear, because a number of you are not reading posts very carefully. I am not claiming the Red Sox will outbid either Houston or NY. I think they will all bid about the same if they want him. if Houston enters the bidding, they'll get him because of he has a long term contract with them after he retires, his son is in the organization, and he will not have to make road trips. If Houston does n't enter the sweepstakes, Boston has more to offer to the Rocket in future years. You can dispute that if you want, but after an athletes playing days are over he has nothing to trade on but his good name. Why wouldn't he want to improve his branding in New England. He'd be a fool if he didn't. His branding in NY was never anything special, and he'd have to win a WS with the Yankees in '07 to have any hope of materially improving his branding in NY. In Boston, all he would have to do is put on the uni and take the mound. That being said there does exist the possibility that the Yankees blow out the competition on the bid, but I just don't see that happening, because they didn't do it last year.

BTW your manager has expressed that he would not tolerate the Rocket not making road trips. Francona and the Red Sox are used to coddling prima donas.

I mainly agree with this statement. However, I feel that the Yankees, if they do trade Randy Johnson, will make a serious push for Clemens before the season begins. They will have the money previously allocated to Johnson, an opening in the rotation, his best friend just signed with the Yankees. For both teams, he will be looked upon as a savior if they win, but more so in New York, since we haven't won without him, but the Sox have.

I think Clemens is the Boras of players. He goes where the money is. This is why I believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he says. By stating that he wants to end his career, go full circle and go back to the Sox, I believe it is nothing more than a ploy to get the Yankees to spit out more money, which they will. I can't see Cashman keeping his job if he loses Clemens to the Red Sox after losing Matsuzaka. I do not believe the Astros are serious bidders anymore, I can't see him pitching and losing his 473rd consecutive game in Houston by a score of 1-0. That must be tiring. I think all things considered even, he signs with Boston. I think the Yankees will offer him more money, due to an increased need as well as more funds to allocate. The question will be whether it will be enough.

Knowing Clemens' behavior pattern, he ends up with the Yankees. I admit, a lot of this is just plain hope.

[a700hitter]

I mainly agree with this statement. However, I feel that the Yankees, if they do trade Randy Johnson, will make a serious push for Clemens before the season begins. They will have the money previously allocated to Johnson, an opening in the rotation, his best friend just signed with the Yankees. For both teams, he will be looked upon as a savior if they win, but more so in New York, since we haven't won without him, but the Sox have.

I think Clemens is the Boras of players. He goes where the money is. This is why I believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he says. By stating that he wants to end his career, go full circle and go back to the Sox, I believe it is nothing more than a ploy to get the Yankees to spit out more money, which they will. I can't see Cashman keeping his job if he loses Clemens to the Red Sox after losing Matsuzaka. I do not believe the Astros are serious bidders anymore, I can't see him pitching and losing his 473rd consecutive game in Houston by a score of 1-0. That must be tiring. I think all things considered even, he signs with Boston. I think the Yankees will offer him more money, due to an increased need as well as more funds to allocate. The question will be whether it will be enough.

Knowing Clemens' behavior pattern, he ends up with the Yankees. I admit, a lot of this is just plain hope.It's possible that the Yankees would blow everyone away with thier offer, but they had the chance to do so last year and they didn't do it. Last year they opted for Cory Lidle R.I.P. Why would Cashman go nuts with a blow out offer for a 44 year old when he had a 43-yr old under contract for the year at about $3-4 million less than Clemens will be asking. Also, Clemens might not want to pitch until June. It just doesn't add up. I could see this if they were unloading a long term contract by unloading the Unit, but he was a one-year commitment.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's possible that the Yankees would blow everyone away with thier offer, but they had the chance to do so last year and they didn't do it. Last year they opted for Cory Lidle R.I.P. Why would Cashman go nuts with a blow out offer for a 44 year old when he had a 43-yr old under contract for the year at about $3-4 million less than Clemens will be asking. Also, Clemens might not want to pitch until June. It just doesn't add up. I could see this if they were unloading a long term contract by unloading the Unit, but he was a one-year commitment.

I think it is more seeing is believing type of stuff. He saw Clemens. The guy now has more pitches than he ever had and he still brings it in the low 90s. He has adjusted to age. The big problem with RJ is that he hasnt. RJ still thinks that 2 pitches is enough to win, and in the ALE, that shit dont fly. Especially when the heat is 3-4mph slower and the slider hangs more times than not. Plus, Clemens was here the last time we won it all. He has playoff success in NY and thrives under the bright lights. Everything that Randy was not.

Plus, if RJ is dealt for prospects and then Clemens is signed, then essentially Cashman replaced an aging declining pitcher for an aging ace while acquiring prospects for a potential deal for Johan or Dontrelle in a yr.

[a700hitter]

I think it is more seeing is believing type of stuff. He saw Clemens. The guy now has more pitches than he ever had and he still brings it in the low 90s. He has adjusted to age. The big problem with RJ is that he hasnt. RJ still thinks that 2 pitches is enough to win, and in the ALE, that shit dont fly. Especially when the heat is 3-4mph slower and the slider hangs more times than not. Plus, Clemens was here the last time we won it all. He has playoff success in NY and thrives under the bright lights. Everything that Randy was not.

Plus, if RJ is dealt for prospects and then Clemens is signed, then essentially Cashman replaced an aging declining pitcher for an aging ace while acquiring prospects for a potential deal for Johan or Dontrelle in a yr.It's sound strategy, but the Yankees will need to blow the other teams out of the water to get him.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's sound strategy, but the Yankees will need to blow the other teams out of the water to get him.

I dont think so. You figure that young arms are what everyone is seeking these days. If the yankees are able to dangle 2 or 3 of those top 10 prospects that have made it to AAA, then I dont think many teams can beat that. At the same time, by adding depth to the AAA level, the yankees can make a big deal and still hang onto Hughes, which is a necessity.

Plus, anyone acquiring Johan would have to be able to give him a monster deal. That eliminates a lot of competition out of the get go. I actually feel that any market involving Willis should be avoided by AL East teams. Any market involving Johan will be less than what most think as I see a Soriano scenario taking place. Nobody is going to want to give up TONS of talent for a half yr rental.

[TheKilo]

I dont think so. You figure that young arms are what everyone is seeking these days. If the yankees are able to dangle 2 or 3 of those top 10 prospects that have made it to AAA, then I dont think many teams can beat that. At the same time, by adding depth to the AAA level, the yankees can make a big deal and still hang onto Hughes, which is a necessity.

Plus, anyone acquiring Johan would have to be able to give him a monster deal. That eliminates a lot of competition out of the get go. I actually feel that any market involving Willis should be avoided by AL East teams. Any market involving Johan will be less than what most think as I see a Soriano scenario taking place. Nobody is going to want to give up TONS of talent for a half yr rental.


Johan Santana isn't going ANYWHERE.

[a700hitter]

I dont think so. You figure that young arms are what everyone is seeking these days. If the yankees are able to dangle 2 or 3 of those top 10 prospects that have made it to AAA, then I dont think many teams can beat that. At the same time, by adding depth to the AAA level, the yankees can make a big deal and still hang onto Hughes, which is a necessity.

Plus, anyone acquiring Johan would have to be able to give him a monster deal. That eliminates a lot of competition out of the get go. I actually feel that any market involving Willis should be avoided by AL East teams. Any market involving Johan will be less than what most think as I see a Soriano scenario taking place. Nobody is going to want to give up TONS of talent for a half yr rental.I was referring to Clemens.

[CrespoBlows]

I dont think so. You figure that young arms are what everyone is seeking these days. If the yankees are able to dangle 2 or 3 of those top 10 prospects that have made it to AAA, then I dont think many teams can beat that. At the same time, by adding depth to the AAA level, the yankees can make a big deal and still hang onto Hughes, which is a necessity.

Plus, anyone acquiring Johan would have to be able to give him a monster deal. That eliminates a lot of competition out of the get go. I actually feel that any market involving Willis should be avoided by AL East teams. Any market involving Johan will be less than what most think as I see a Soriano scenario taking place. Nobody is going to want to give up TONS of talent for a half yr rental.

Santana isn't going anywhere unless Hughes is going back to Minnesota.

[jacksonianmarch]

Santana isn't going anywhere unless Hughes is going back to Minnesota.

I think it will be what is on the table and where the Twins are. By the time Santana will be on the block (potentially this trade deadline but most likely next offseason) Hughes may already have established himself in the rotation. He may also be on the shelf with injury or another guy will have outshone him etc. Also, if the twins fall like a rock (which is possible without Radke and Liriano) then Santana will be dealt. If the twins rise, then santana doesnt need to be dealt. If the twins suck, then the return on a deal for him will be smaller.

Also, Kilo, there was a report in Minnesota that Johan may find his name on the block this season as Minnesota knows that after 08, Johan will likely get a MONSTER deal.

[CrespoBlows]

I think it will be what is on the table and where the Twins are. By the time Santana will be on the block (potentially this trade deadline but most likely next offseason) Hughes may already have established himself in the rotation. He may also be on the shelf with injury or another guy will have outshone him etc. Also, if the twins fall like a rock (which is possible without Radke and Liriano) then Santana will be dealt. If the twins rise, then santana doesnt need to be dealt. If the twins suck, then the return on a deal for him will be smaller.

Also, Kilo, there was a report in Minnesota that Johan may find his name on the block this season as Minnesota knows that after 08, Johan will likely get a MONSTER deal.

If Hughes is in the rotation, then the Yankees chances of dealing him are pretty much zilch. Unless, they want to surrender Sanchez, Tabata, plus at least one more top prospect.

[Coco's Disciples]

I highly highly highly doubt Johan Santana will be traded...the Twins are going to be at least a decent team with a glimpse of a playoff hope.

[hoke3182]

You guys usually are rational in your thoughts but the Twins dealing Santana is absolutley crazy. End this discusdsion now

[jacksonianmarch]

You guys usually are rational in your thoughts but the Twins dealing Santana is absolutley crazy. End this discusdsion now

Take a look at this.

http://www.startribune.com/508/story/905897.html


You can let Hunter leave as a free agent and get away with it. You can't possibly do the same with Santana, perhaps the most valuable individual commodity in the game at the moment.

Johan will be dealt before the Twins report to spring training in 2008. That became a given when the Giants presented $18 million per year to Zito.

[TheKilo]

I think it will be what is on the table and where the Twins are. By the time Santana will be on the block (potentially this trade deadline but most likely next offseason) Hughes may already have established himself in the rotation. He may also be on the shelf with injury or another guy will have outshone him etc. Also, if the twins fall like a rock (which is possible without Radke and Liriano) then Santana will be dealt. If the twins rise, then santana doesnt need to be dealt. If the twins suck, then the return on a deal for him will be smaller.

Also, Kilo, there was a report in Minnesota that Johan may find his name on the block this season as Minnesota knows that after 08, Johan will likely get a MONSTER deal.

Don't sell the Twins short. They were pretty good in the second half last year without Liriano. I think their young pitchers (Bonser, Garza, etc.) can do a more than adequate job of filling in for the combo of Radke and Liriano. The Twins will always be in the race with Santana throwing every 5th day.

Don't be shocked if Santana sacrifices a couple mil to remain in Minnesota, either. These monster deals for superstars are becoming less prevalent. I also think Florida will try to do all it can to keep Miguel Cabrera.

[jacksonianmarch]

it wouldnt be a couple mil. They are at max salary. Santana will double his current salary on the open market (10 mil right now). Minny has no prayer of inking him when they'll have Mauer and Morneau to worry about.

[TheKilo]

it wouldnt be a couple mil. They are at max salary. Santana will double his current salary on the open market (10 mil right now). Minny has no prayer of inking him when they'll have Mauer and Morneau to worry about.

If the Yankees have any hope of landing Santana, Hughes and Tabata will be on their way out.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the Yankees have any hope of landing Santana, Hughes and Tabata will be on their way out.

I wont be so sure. I have no idea who will be in on it and who would be offering what. Until then, we shall see.

[TheKilo]

I wont be so sure. I have no idea who will be in on it and who would be offering what. Until then, we shall see.

Well, in order to get the best pitcher and the game, the team who gets him will need to give back top tier minor league talent.

That is of course, what you say is true that Minny won't pony up the $$ to re-sign him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, in order to get the best pitcher and the game, the team who gets him will need to give back top tier minor league talent.

That is of course, what you say is true that Minny won't pony up the $$ to re-sign him.

well, like I said, if Johan is dealt in 08, then I dont see Hughes being a part of the equation as I think Hughes will have already won a rotation spot. If Johan were put on the block right now, then Hughes is certainly on that block.

By 2008, we might have Hughes in the starting rotation with 4 other top 10 talents in AAA and Chamberlain in AA. That would make us be able to send them a package of 2-4 top tier pitching prospects while sparing the need to send Hughes.

[TheKilo]

well, like I said, if Johan is dealt in 08, then I dont see Hughes being a part of the equation as I think Hughes will have already won a rotation spot. If Johan were put on the block right now, then Hughes is certainly on that block.

By 2008, we might have Hughes in the starting rotation with 4 other top 10 talents in AAA and Chamberlain in AA. That would make us be able to send them a package of 2-4 top tier pitching prospects while sparing the need to send Hughes.


At the same time, if Minny wanted Hughes as part of a package for Johan the Yankees would have a real tough time saying no.

[jacksonianmarch]

At the same time, if Minny wanted Hughes as part of a package for Johan the Yankees would have a real tough time saying no.

depends on what they see out of Hughes. If Hughes comes up and pulls a Jered Weaver, he becomes flat out untouchable. If he comes up and is average or worse, then the twins may not even want him. That is why I think his debut in the majors is the end point of his trade rumors. The hand will be shown to everyone.

[TheKilo]

depends on what they see out of Hughes. If Hughes comes up and pulls a Jered Weaver, he becomes flat out untouchable. If he comes up and is average or worse, then the twins may not even want him. That is why I think his debut in the majors is the end point of his trade rumors. The hand will be shown to everyone.

We basically agree...if the Twins want him though, can the Yankees say no?

[jacksonianmarch]

We basically agree...if the Twins want him though, can the Yankees say no?

today, not at all. If he pulls a Jered Weaver in 08, then yeah, they would and should pull him off the table for good.

Also, I think the yankees could still offer the best package without having to give up Hughes (assuming RJ is dealt for Owings and Nippert). Nobody else has so much MLB ready pitching talent in the AAA system with the added caveat of being able to sign Johan.

[TheKilo]

today, not at all. If he pulls a Jered Weaver in 08, then yeah, they would and should pull him off the table for good.

Also, I think the yankees could still offer the best package without having to give up Hughes (assuming RJ is dealt for Owings and Nippert). Nobody else has so much MLB ready pitching talent in the AAA system with the added caveat of being able to sign Johan.

Minor league talent, yes, but I think that it's possible you see teams make a push with MLB talent to go after him.

Again, who, and for what, we'll have to wait and see.

edit - Let me go on record as to saying he's in Minny for his career, BTW.

[jacksonianmarch]

Minor league talent, yes, but I think that it's possible you see teams make a push with MLB talent to go after him.

Again, who, and for what, we'll have to wait and see.

edit - Let me go on record as to saying he's in Minny for his career, BTW.

I will go on record as saying the opposite. Actually, let me be bold here. I am 75% sure he is in another uniform by Jan 1, 2008.

[TheKilo]

I will go on record as saying the opposite. Actually, let me be bold here. I am 75% sure he is in another uniform by Jan 1, 2008.

I think he's gonna be the #1 priority there, over Mauer and Morneau.

Dude's a HoF pitcher, and he's a lefty.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think he's gonna be the #1 priority there, over Mauer and Morneau.

Dude's a HoF pitcher, and he's a lefty.

but he is gonna cost 20 mil a season on a team that hardly breaks 40mil in total payroll. He can thank Zito for completely pricing himself out of 2/3's of the teams in the MLB's league.

[TheKilo]

but he is gonna cost 20 mil a season on a team that hardly breaks 40mil in total payroll. He can thank Zito for completely pricing himself out of 2/3's of the teams in the MLB's league.

They picked up Torii Hunter's 12 million dollar option this offseason.

If they're willing to spend $12 mil on Hunter, they'll sign Santana.

edit - the Twins' payroll was close to $65 million last year.

[jacksonianmarch]

They picked up Torii Hunter's 12 million dollar option this offseason.

If they're willing to spend $12 mil on Hunter, they'll sign Santana.

edit - the Twins' payroll was close to $65 million last year.

I have a feeling picking up Hunter's option is a good way to get something for him at the deadline.

[TheKilo]

I have a feeling picking up Hunter's option is a good way to get something for him at the deadline.

And if not, he's costing them $12 million.

Again, I find it really hard to believe the Twins will part with the best SP in baseball unless it's a great deal for them.

[jacksonianmarch]

And if not, he's costing them $12 million.

Again, I find it really hard to believe the Twins will part with the best SP in baseball unless it's a great deal for them.

But the question remains. They wont be the highest bidder when Johan hits the market. Hence, they have to protect themselves against his impending departure. They get a 1st rounder and a sandwich if he leaves via FA. They can fleece a team for 3 or 4 top 100 prospects if they deal him. I think they deal him.

[BSN07]

MINN is going to have a new stadium soon, With M and M, Santanna, Liriano, and a couple other young pitchers they have, they are looking to be a strong team in the near future and for awhile after that. Expect Minny to expand there payroll to allow them to keep all these guys under contract. They will need all those guys to sell tickets to the new park.

The only way Santanna gets dealt, is if he comes out and says flat out that he either doesn't want to resign or that his contract demands will be astronomical( 20M+ a yr). The only other possibility is that if Liriano comes back 100% Minny might decide to trade Santanna and rely on Liriano as the ace. I don't see this because liriano isn't going to be back for 07 and they won't know how effective he will be until 08.

This is just a guess for what I think Minny's players will get for contracts,

Hunter- gone
Mauer- 5yrs 50M
Morneau- 5yrs 55M
Santanna- 6yrs 100M+( 100M is hometown discount, if he hits the open market, Boras will commit suicide because hes not his client, and Santanna gets a 7yr 150M+ deal from Texas,BOS,NYY,NYM,LAA,LA( or whoever can afford it). But I think he stays in Minny, he doesn't seem the type of player to chase money.

[jacksonianmarch]

guys. Lets be honest here. Any good pitcher who just watched Barry Zito, essentially a solid #3 and a potential #2 sign for 7yrs at 18 mil just saw dollar signs flash before their eyes. He will be the barometer for future ace deals.

Carlos Zambrano? Younger, better stuff, just as durable, and improving rather than regressing? He'll beat Zito's deal.

Johan Santana? Will turn 30 in ST of 2009. He'll be a FA after the 2008 season. He is by all accounts the best pitcher in all of baseball. He has the best stuff in all of baseball. He has the best location, etc. And, he is left handed. Expect him to BLOW both of those two above out of the water. How do you expect Minnesota to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and the like for him? And lets not fool ourselves here. He may be a nice guy, but every agent from here to japan is telling their pitchers to wait it out till FA cause someone will make a ridiculous offer. He is done in Minnesota in 2 yrs and if they want to get something for him, he should be dealt by 2008.

[Mr Crunchy]

the people in houston,number than shit,would rather see clemens than ny or boston fans
its a novelty in houston
they think hes nolan ryan returned

anyone north of arlington texas who thinks they got a shot at mr april best bring their checkbook with a deuce and 0000000's in the register

fuck this guy

[jacksonianmarch]

Clemens is the ultimate mercenary. But sometimes, mercs are necessary. If we deal RJ, then we are relying on Pavano as our #5. With our farm system and the options available pitching wise, I dont mind that. We need to develop young pitching, we have it MLB ready, why not now? But if Cashman is of the idea that these kids need one more yr (which I would certainly endorse) and he is of the idea that Pavano is a walking 15 day DL and cannot be trusted (which again I'd endorse) then he has to fill the 5 hole with a commodity that can handle the Bronx and pitch well. Clemens will give him that. And if that means slogging through april and may with Pavano et al in the 5 slot only to have Mr May make it through the season and not be lame in October, then so be it. Is he a merc, absolutely. Will he always be a merc, absolutely. Does anyone actually think he is going to give a rats ass about sentiment in his hometown, in boston or in NY. Well, they'd ne naive.

[Mr Crunchy]

who ever comes up with the biggest coin will get him

[jacksonianmarch]

who ever comes up with the biggest coin will get him

agreed old timer.

[TheKilo]

guys. Lets be honest here. Any good pitcher who just watched Barry Zito, essentially a solid #3 and a potential #2 sign for 7yrs at 18 mil just saw dollar signs flash before their eyes. He will be the barometer for future ace deals.

Carlos Zambrano? Younger, better stuff, just as durable, and improving rather than regressing? He'll beat Zito's deal.

Johan Santana? Will turn 30 in ST of 2009. He'll be a FA after the 2008 season. He is by all accounts the best pitcher in all of baseball. He has the best stuff in all of baseball. He has the best location, etc. And, he is left handed. Expect him to BLOW both of those two above out of the water. How do you expect Minnesota to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and the like for him? And lets not fool ourselves here. He may be a nice guy, but every agent from here to japan is telling their pitchers to wait it out till FA cause someone will make a ridiculous offer. He is done in Minnesota in 2 yrs and if they want to get something for him, he should be dealt by 2008.

I believe it is inaccurate to use this year's market to guage what it will be like a few years down the road.

Remember the ridiculous year when Manny signed his deal with us? The market corrected itself in a few years.

[jacksonianmarch]

the market corrected itself cause the FA class sucked cajones. The only true blue, A#1 player to hit the market in that time and not get a monster deal was Vlad, and that was only because he had a back issue in his walk yr.

[ARod2212]

I didn't read the thread, but this Johnson move I think indicates that Clemens is going to be back in New York.

[jacksonianmarch]

I didn't read the thread, but this Johnson move I think indicates that Clemens is going to be back in New York.

I think it is a sure sign that the yankees are ready to outbid the shit out of everyone.

[Mr Crunchy]

as they should
slap raja with as many 000000s as possible and count on his 45 year old ass to beat kc and tampa but get his ass handed to him by boston chicago and toronto

honestly speaking for a moment while my monday hangover carries into tuesday nite...
he will be a great inning eater for a team that lacks pitching depth
if the yanks think pavano and iguana are solid keepers then i think theyre wasting their money
nobody can tell me that the sox would be better off facing rj than clemens
i
as well as you guys
watched both these men against boston
clemens gets his ass handed to him in every game that ever mattered
rj is beatable as well as is mussina these days
however
they always pitched good enuff to win the tight ones against us
as opposed to clem,who always pitched good enuff to lose the big ones,be it against dave stewart,ronny darling(another local kid) or el presidente dennis martinez or the other martinez

if the sox think their 5+ are ready to roll?
they too wouldnt invest in this cocksucker either

of course come june and things turn hot and the pitching wilts or burns or both
a guy like raja would be a good fit for any team in the running

im just wondering why they would invest that kind of coin on raja as opposed to the likes of jason schmidt who they couldve rented for the stretch run

i think its a marketing ploy by the sox
a competetive ploy by the yanks
who may feel that theyre outgunned at the starting rotation area

[a700hitter]

I didn't read the thread, but this Johnson move I think indicates that Clemens is going to be back in New York.What will they do until June when the Rocket wants to start his season.

[ARod2212]

What will they do until June when the Rocket wants to start his season. I'm sure they'll figure something out. Whoever they send out can't be worse than Jaret Wright was.

[a700hitter]

I'm sure they'll figure something out. Whoever they send out can't be worse than Jaret Wright was.Sure they could. Did you see the crap that we were rolling out in the 5th slot last year-- Pauley, Snyder and "the Ultimate Loser" Jason Johnson.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sure they could. Did you see the crap that we were rolling out in the 5th slot last year-- Pauley, Snyder and "the Ultimate Loser" Jason Johnson.

We have much better in house options than the sox could even fathom last season.

[a700hitter]

We have much better in house options than the sox could even fathom last season.Good luck to them.

[jacksonianmarch]

granted, far from a certainty. But they are better than sending out AAAA retreads. At least if they suck, they are getting a learning experience rather than just sucking as usual.

[jacksonianmarch]

Olney on ESPN radio said that Clemens is going to be a yankee by the end of the offseason. It was more of an opinion piece, but he said that Yankee people have told him that they will offer extreme leniency on scheduling and will most definitely not be outbid.

[redsoxrules]

Olney on ESPN radio said that Clemens is going to be a yankee by the end of the offseason. It was more of an opinion piece, but he said that Yankee people have told him that they will offer extreme leniency on scheduling and will most definitely not be outbid.

good to hear

[TheKilo]

Olney, huh?

Clemens to Houston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Olney, huh?

Clemens to Houston.

so true, haha

[a700hitter]

Olney on ESPN radio said that Clemens is going to be a yankee by the end of the offseason. It was more of an opinion piece, but he said that Yankee people have told him that they will offer extreme leniency on scheduling and will most definitely not be outbid.The Red Sox don't need to outbid the Yankees. They just need to match them.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Red Sox don't need to outbid the Yankees. They just need to match them.

as you have been blabbering for a month now. Time will tell 700. Keep that sig warm for my message.

[jacksonianmarch]

wanna up the ante to avatars

[a700hitter]

wanna up the ante to avatarsBeing right will be enough. I won't need to humiliate you.

[jacksonianmarch]

is that chickenshit I smell?

[a700hitter]

Fine, but I'll leave it to the others on this site, excluding Yankee fans, to determine your humiliation.

[jacksonianmarch]

1 month it was right?

[ORS]

My nomination for Jacko's avatar....

http://www.stonewallvets.org/images/parade_34/yankees201.jpg

[jacksonianmarch]

OMFG, that is hilarious.

[a700hitter]

1 month it is.

[TheKilo]

I really can't see the Yankees offering the type of scheduling flexibility that he wants. Right now it seems like 50/50 for him even to pitch next year.

If Houston offers more money than the Yankees (on the Dan Patrick show today Gammons said the Astros are willing to overpay a bit), and keeps the same schedule for him, why would he leave Houston?

I don't think the Red Sox are going to make a huge push for him. Yeah, it'd be a nice story, but the Sox already have a pretty good rotation. They need to continue to focus their attention on the bullpen and maybe beef up the bench a little bit.

[Gom]

1 month it is.

I almost want jacks to lose so he can have that avatar. LOL!

How about this for a700:


432

[TheKilo]

I almost want jacks to lose so he can have that avatar. LOL!

How about this for a700:


432

Now, if you made that with the individual toes, it'd really be gay.

[BSN07]

My girlfriend has a pair he could wear, nice and rainbowy with individual toes!LOL

I don't think we will hear much about Clemens pitching for the Sox until it gets a little closer to when he is actually going to come back.

yes we have a good rotation now but you never know what will happen, if someone is sucking ass or is hurt then I would imagine the Sox making a bigger push for him then right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01232007/sports/yankees/canos_no__22_to_rog___if_____yankees_michael_morri ssey.htm

The Yankees have asked Robby Cano to switch his number from 22 to 24. #22 is the # that Rog had in the bronx and are hoping to do everything to woo Roger to NY. Interesting.

[BSN07]

Ya and the Sox haven't let anyone wear #21 since Roger left town. The number doesn't mean anything. He will either take the money from NYY, or he will go for the legendary story of returning to Boston and all the frenzy that would cause.

Remember he did except a trade to Boston last year at the deadline that the Houston owner vetoed. So he is willing to go to Boston. NYY where trying to trade for him too, but I never heard anything about him excepting a deal to send him to NY. It will be interesting to see if he goes for the Money or whatever you would call it if he returned to Boston to end his legendary career.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ya and the Sox haven't let anyone wear #21 since Roger left town. The number doesn't mean anything. He will either take the money from NYY, or he will go for the legendary story of returning to Boston and all the frenzy that would cause.

Remember he did except a trade to Boston last year at the deadline that the Houston owner vetoed. So he is willing to go to Boston. NYY where trying to trade for him too, but I never heard anything about him excepting a deal to send him to NY. It will be interesting to see if he goes for the Money or whatever you would call it if he returned to Boston to end his legendary career.

there was a "rumor" of a deal. At the same time, the Stros probably asked for Hughes or Tabata which is a big no-no in a deal. The sox were a little more desperate at the time. Right now, it is straight cash, not even a loss of a pick.

[BSN07]

Well at the time when it was going on and right after the deadline PTI and around the horn and a couple other sport shows where talking about it and where all stating sources saying it was true, so I wouldn't call it a rumor, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[TheKilo]

Well at the time when it was going on and right after the deadline PTI and around the horn and a couple other sport shows where talking about it and where all stating sources saying it was true, so I wouldn't call it a rumor, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

Bad idea to cite PTI and Around the Horn as sources.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bad idea to cite PTI and Around the Horn as sources.

agreed

[TheKilo]

agreed

Says the person who needs to work on citing any of his sources.

[BSN07]

Well baseball tonight said it was a done deal at the time too, Houston's owner just vetoed it. Alot of reporters where pissed calling it one of the best baseball story's ever if it had gone threw. Houston's owner reasoning was because he didn't want another Nolan Ryan situation on his hands... What a tool, NR was there for a good period of time, RC has only been there for a couple seasons, its not like he was the face of the franchise like NR was. RC was a ticket seller thats all. Biggio,Bagwell(pre retirement) and Berkmen are the faces of the franchise.