Crunch has been waiting for this...BLOW UP THE YANKEES!

[jacksonianmarch]

BLOW IT ALL UP!!!

This team could find their way up this mountain with the help of a color coded map and a goddamn sherpa. We are cooked. Done. Meat. Dead in the water. Sucking eggs. Taking it in the rear. Eating it. Stinking up the joint. Etc etc etc.

So, lets blow this shit up. I know, I know, we have 100 games left and yeah it is the yankees. But, this ISNT the yankees. Fucking Matt DeSalvo just started his 5th game of the season. Matt fucking DeSalvo. The guy who couldnt find the goddamn plate if his dick was glued to it last season. He blamed it on "personal problems". The gullible ones (ie ME) who were drinking the punch bought it and have since watched him become the right handed version of a poor man's Randy Keisler. Hell, I'd kill for Randy Keisler right about now and that guy had trouble keeping his ERA south of 7. But, as with every one of my posts, there must be a silver lining, SO, what is it?

Well, it is a natural BLOW UP THIS FUCKING TEAM thread. Applause, Applause

Thank you, thank you very much.

I am not one to sit back and enjoy muttering the words, the Red Sox are better, but, but, but, THIS SEASON, it isnt even close. Yeah, we may have just beaten Paps and tagged Okajima, yeah we just double pumped you guys in your own home, and yeah, we kinda own 60% of your pitching staff. BUT, we cannot beat anybody else. The hallmark of the previous yankee teams has been their ability to FEAST on the crap of the league. Well, we aint doing that this yr folks, and the sox are. So, consider this my concession speech. Enjoy the division title, may you get dickslapped in the playoffs.

That said. We need to blow this thing up. One thing we need to do is get younger. This lineup looks like the Convalescent home's finest up there. Johnny Damon needed to pimp out his walker to get out of the batters box for christ sakes. So, first thing to do....

DEAL AROD: Probably our best trading chip assuming he is willing to drop that pesky NTC. Tell him he will be extended for whatever he wants and then kick in some cash to deal his ass away. DONT deal him to ANAHEIM. Dont deal him in the AL. Keep him AWAY from Boston or the other rivals. Send his ass to the dodgers. The dodgers have some very nice prospects and could easily whet the appetite of the yankees FO and rebuild the team. And when you talk about ARod, you are talking about arguably the best player int he league, still in his prime, and with the potential for a HR title. So he WONT come cheap. I'd assume 3 highly touted prospects would suffice. If they are willing to part with 3 of the following, I'd pack his binky and his teddy bear for him, tell him to wrap his meat when he goes to strip clubs and send his ass to the gayest city south of san fran.

The list: James Loney, Andy LaRoche, Scott Elbert, Chad Billingsly, Matt Kemp, John Broxton. I'd love to get Loney, LaRoche and Kemp.

Next thing to do. DEAL ABREU. His stock is dropping, but coming off a solid season and on the verge of breaking out, he could return something valuable. Maybe a bullpen arm. Hey, give the white sox a call. They have been rumored to like Abreu and may have wanted to deal Dye for him. Hell, keep Dye. Send over Massett if you will. K thx bye.

Float Mike Mussina out there. Make a rule that the yankee clubhouse is now chess and crossword puzzle free and make him so mad that he will waive his NTC. Then deal him for two banquet meals and a slim jim.

Deal Kyle Farnsworth. The cardinals and rockies had interest. Dont know who to get back, but this guy is cooked and I'd love to save some heart strain by getting rid of his sorry ass.

Cut Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano. Make a rule that the yankee clubhouse will be devoid of steroid induced juicers and panty waste losers.

Whatever needs to be done after that, may they do. Start fresh this offseason and take a look at what the Twins are asking for for Santana, as well as what the Rangers want for Tex. Keep Pettitte. Check in with Zambrano and see if he could be gotten a little bit cheaper now that he has imploded in CHI-town. If he cant, sign him anyway. Re-up Mariano and Posada just because they can still play at the highest level and wont embarass you. Try and sign Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones.

This list is too long, I give up. Yankee clubhouse needs an overhaul

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

IMO you cant deal A-Rod. He way too good. I'd love to get rid of Mussina but thats not happening. I think you can deal Abreu. Alot of teams need help in the bullpen and I'm sure someone would be willing to take on Fransworth. Fuck Pavano and is Giambi getting hurt really suprising? If its not his knee its his back, if its not his back its his neck, if its not his neck its his foot.

[schillingouttheks]

:lol: Jacko's hilarious.

[Coco's Disciples]

Yayayayayayay.

[Mr Crunchy]

well everyone laff now but if come 7-28 and theyre 15 out??

look out below
there may be a fire sale that rivals that of the natick building 19 fire of 1974
look
theyre still in this thing till september if they choose to be
but the forecast isnt pretty at all and thats what they need to grasp

they have some young pitchers that will indeed be around for a while
they have an aging corp of position players that will need to be remedied
do they hang onto damon who has been neutered with injury??
is matsui on the way down or just having a bad year??
arod??
jetsey and posada will not be here forever either

is it a 1 year makeover or do they have the patience to go into a 2 year plan which may be more along the lines of what they actually need??

lots of questions

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd take the 2 yr plan if that is what it takes. This draft will surprisingly determine a lot. If they draft more pitching, expect them to be hoarding for a deal. If they dont, then they may be trying to rebuild this thing through the market and from within. If they draft a lot of good pitching (ie over slot guys) then that would indicate a quick fix is on the horizon.

[Mr Crunchy]

lots of current holes
lots of impending holes as well

where to start and how far do you want to go with the rebuilding?

[rician blast]

I'd take the 2 yr plan if that is what it takes.

But will Steinny? And will the rest of the Yankee fanbase?

I agree that the way to go is to set the team (any team) up for another run that'll last a number of years. The patching and filling of holes with high-priced talent in an effort to stay on top has its limits as we're seeing now.

But does NY have the patience? Personally...I hope NOT.

[jacksonianmarch]

But will Steinny? And will the rest of the Yankee fanbase?

I agree that the way to go is to set the team (any team) up for another run that'll last a number of years. The patching and filling of holes with high-priced talent in an effort to stay on top has its limits as we're seeing now.

But does NY have the patience? Personally...I hope NOT.

We'll see how they decide to play this. There are ways to do a quick fix that will help us long term. We just need to make smart, calculated moves and not bite the bullet on something that will be ominous. Like signing Andruw Jones to a long term deal. He's already 30, or so we know and his size has increased with each passing day. His BA has always sucked and his power this season hasnt been all that impressive either. I feel that signing him would add a nice righty power bat, but we would be regretting it for the last 3 yrs of that contract (as I think AJ will get an 8 yr deal). And as we see now, those backends of contracts for big time signees are a bitch.

Now that I am not as steamed, I think I can make a level headed post about what we should do.

Starting with the Catcher's position. Posada MUST be resigned and I dont see him leaving. But it is time to snag a backup who can play more than once in a blue moon. Options are available. The Mets are between a rock and a hard place with Castro and LoDuca and they have said that after this yr, LoDuca could be released. If that is the case, see who offers him what and if nobody makes him an offer as a starter, blow away anyone who comes along for his backup services. Same with Castro, if the Mets decide to keep Loduca. If neither are an option, consider Ausmus out of Houston or Barajas from Philly. Its about time we dont have a shitbum backup catcher. One more yr should buy enough time for Cervelli to ascend to a platoon role as the yankee backup/situational starting catcher.

At Firstbase. This is one hell of a tricky scenario. Teixeira is available to the highest bidder. But there is another option I'd kick the tires on first. Adam Dunn. Dunn is one of the best natural power players in the game and with the shorter RF porch in Yankee stadium, his power numbers could be even more amazing. And what I love about the guy is that, even though he may K 200 times and may only hit .240, he gets on base at a .380 career clip. And, he isnt all that slow to boot (55 steal over 7 seasons, 7 each the last 2 yrs). He isnt a basestealer, but he isnt Giambi in clogging up the paths. Dunn will be 28 in November, so a 6 yr deal would actually encompass the rest of his prime and not leave us with his latter yrs when he will really suck.

At Second base. Keep Cano. I know everyone will be asking about him, but this kid can hit and when he gets hot, he can carry a team. He's the kind of kid whose power comes on as the season does, and at 23, we could be looking at a player who will develop some serious power to go along with his high average (which he will still have at the end of the yr, bank it).

At Shortstop. Keep Jeter, obviously. But back him up with someone. I actually like the kid we have in the minors, Alberto Gonzalez. Cant hit worth a lick, but is a defensive wizard. I'd love to have him as a backup instead of Cairo who may have a worse arm than Damon and range than Jeter (and that is saying something).

At Third base. This depends on ARod. I floated the idea of a trade out there last night, but after coming to my senses, I noticed that there is no way LA would take him on for 3 prospects if his opt out clause is still an issue. I would sit down with him and ask him what he wants to do. A: Do you want to stay in NY? and B: if not, what kind of contract are you looking for? I'd do my best to keep him if he wanted to stay, and I'd do my best to give him a comparable deal buying out his opt out clause and shipping him out if he wanted to go. Remember this, nobody has the kind of leverage the yankees have because the rangers are still paying half of his contract. If he wanted to stay, then keep him.

In Left field Keep Matsui. His power is a bit down, but he is still hitting and he is still a solid player and a huge cash cow for the yankees.

In Centerfield. Now this is interesting. If there is no dice on the Dunn front and we dont like the asking price on Tex, I'd love to give Damon an entire offseason to learn first base. That would be ideal. If we do land a 1b, have Damon split time between DH and CF while having Melky split time in CF. UNLESS, Torii Hunter is interested in coming to NY. He'll be 32 in the offseason and could easily solve the CF issue for a few yrs. Offer him no more than a 4 yr deal and see if he bites. Otherwise, have Melky patrol CF with Damon in a platoon/ rest up split.

In Right field: Gauge the market on Abreu. If there is some interest, take his contract option yr and deal him with cash much like we did with Sheff. If the interest is minimal, then opt out and cut your losses. Then it really gets interesting. Kosuke Fukudome is available out of Japan and he sounds like a solid yet unspectacular player. But, he'll be a FA (I think, hence no posting) and with Matsui being able to patrol the same OF, we may be able to lure him. He'd be cheaper and we'd control him for 6 yrs (unless they put that pesky deny arb clause in), even though at 30 right now, 6 yrs down the line doesnt look all that good. OR, the Yankees can do what they always do and overpay an older player like Ichiro. He'll be 34 and is hitting like a monster again. But at 34 (in November) a speed first player may not be a wise investment.

At Designated Hitter It would be optimal to get out of Giambi's contract in its final yr so we can have some flexibility. If we cannot, gauge interest in him and if anything reasonable can be returned, eat some cash and get him out. If not, he will have to accept a part time role while being a platoon DH / pinch hitter. If we find a taker for Giambi, Damon and Matsui switching off at DH could only help us.

What I'd like to see out of the lineup in 2008

C- Posada (Castro as backup)
1B- Dunn
2B- Cano
SS- Jeter
3B- ARod
LF- Matsui
CF- Hunter
RF- Fukudome
DH- Damon

What a quick fix, shortsighted mindset could get us

C- Posada (Nieves as backup)
1B- Teixeira (after dealing away some high level pitching prospects)
2B- Cano
3B- ARod
SS- Jeter
LF- Matsui
CF- A. Jones/Damon
RF- Suzuki/Damon
DH- Damon

Pitching in the next post....

[jacksonianmarch]

Now for the pitching.

First of all, we need to see the options that will be returning....

Assuming there is no injury, Pettitte will accept his option and take his rightful role in the yankee rotation. So, to start the yr, we will see this....

1. Wang
2. Pettitte
3. Mussina
4. ?
5. ?

One of those spots is almost assuredly going to Hughes. So that leaves on open spot, or does it? I'd send feelers out to NL teams about Mike Mussina, maybe even the dreaded Mets. He has one yr left on his deal, has a NTC, and would likely still be a good national league pitcher. But his time in NY as a Yankee is coming to a close. I'd tell him that he doesnt have a spot in the rotation, so he better waive his NTC. Dont really care what we get back, but this creature of habit bullshit doesnt go over well when the creature acts more like a lamb than a lion.

SO that leaves us at..

1. Wang
2. Hughes
3. Pettitte
4. ??
5. ??

So, lets look at the FA options.

Mark Buerhle, Paul Byrd, Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia, Livan Hernandez, Jason Jennings, Curt Schilling, Carlos Zambrano and then some Japanese guys (Shimizu and Uehara).

Mark Buerhle would be ideal. He eats innings, is rarely hurt, and is still young. Also, being left handed in the Bronx is always nice. BUT, chances are, he is going to StL, so we wont have a shot at him. Paul Byrd is exactly what we dont need. Another Mussina-esque pitcher who is too old. Bartolo Colon would be an intriguing option. If we wanted a Fat Toad redux that is. Freddy Garcia, even though he is struggling in Philly, would be a guy I'd keep an eye on. He is an innings eater who has had years of success in the AL. I'd love to insert him into the 4 or 5 slot in the rotation. I'd shy away from Jennings like the plague. His mid 1's WHIP from a yr ago shows you what kind of player he is. I dont think he'd be cut out for AL work and he screams Carla Pussano. No on Schilling. As for big Z. Hmm. The guy is a workhorse, but he walks too many. Right now he is also getting hit pretty hard, which is very uncharacteristic of him, but many people are willing to say that this is more situational than anything else. So, I'd put feelers out, but not bite just yet.

So, after examining the FA options, the only guy I'd go for is Garcia and I'd keep tabs on Zambrano.

Now, all of you know this. I want Santana, but not bad enough to rape our system. So. I'd call. Ask how they were doing. Ask them what they wanted. They'll ask for Hughes, we'll say no, counter with Horne, they'll laugh, ask for a bunch of prospects. Get lists from other teams. Obviously ask Boston. Ask for Buchholz, they'll balk, etc. In the end, the yankees can throw in cash and make it worth their while.

I would assume that by the end of the yr, they would have Kennedy and Tabata in the top 20 on the prospect list and would be willing to offer them plus either Alan Horne or Jeff Marquez (both on the verge of being MLB ready). It would hurt as Kennedy is most likely the fastest mover in the yankee system and Tabata is the best hitter in the system, but it would keep the twins prying hands away from Hughes, Betances, and Chamberlain who all have ace high ceilings.

Assume it gets done.

1. Santana
2. Wang
3. Hughes
4. Pettitte
5. Garcia

I'd go to war with that rotation and be very happy. Assuming the twins are intent on winning it all in 08 and will not deal anything for Santana, there are ways to look at it.

Instead of dumping Moose, you can see what he has left and insert him into that slot. Or, after having what is likely going to amount to a full season of MLB experience, Clippard may be set for the 5 slot. It would be in a state of flux, but adding a dependable horse like Garcia could only help. If we couldnt get Santana or Garcia and Mussina has shown by the end of the yr that he is truly done, then get Zambrano, blow them all out of the water. In Zambrano you are getting a young horse who has the capacity to dominate and be an ace. He also has an equal capacity to implode. Kinda like a Josh Beckett with worse control and without having to give up the farm.

[jacksonianmarch]

Now finally, the bullpen.

First and foremost. Resign Mo.
Keep Proctor.
Keep Bruney
Keep Britton.

Those are 4 arms I'd have out there.

Deal away Farnsworth for anything. Let go of Myers. Gascaino can leave too. Bye Villone. I'd keep tabs on lefties available, but also be content with Henn as the lefty specialist. Aaron Fultz could be on my wish list as he has handled lefties rather well over the last 3 yrs.

As for the right hand side. Bruney is not a setup man since he has such poor control. Proctor is more of a swing man. So I'd leave those 2 out of designated 8th inning roles. And with Mariano getting older, we will need to consider his potential replacement. Enter Francisco Cordero. FA after the yr, will be really expensive. But his expertise in closing and his power arm could fit very well with us. Tell him he will be the successor to Mo in NY and see where it takes us. If he doesnt bite, look at a guy like Al Reyes out of TB.

Other than that, see what the minors can offer us. Whelan should be ready by then. Cox will be back later this season and certainly could be a pen option for next yr. Edwar Ramirez and others could also help. This whole building from without theory has blown up in our faces. Keep the reliable guys from this yr and see what we can get by with in terms of the younger guys. Stop signing expensive bombs in the pen unless it is for a proven commodity.

[ANiMAL]

Jacko's mind is exploding.

Good Stuff though, I love your optimism in the Offseason.

[jacksonianmarch]

well, the one good thing about this team is that they have loads of talent. Hence, there is really no need for pessimism unless you are 7 games under in June and 12 games out. In April, hope springs eternal.

[schillingouttheks]

Holy hell Jacko.

Interesting posts. Love it.

[ARod2212]

I didn't go through everything because I have to get my brother from school now, but I don't see the need to blow everything up. I'd be interested to follow the Dye for Abreu storyline. I think that could be a huge upgrade.

Guys, the season isn't over. Not even half over.

[schillingouttheks]

I didn't go through everything because I have to get my brother from school now, but I don't see the need to blow everything up. I'd be interested to follow the Dye for Abreu storyline. I think that could be a huge upgrade.

Guys, the season isn't over. Not even half over.

Hahaha.

In summary, it's actually not that much of a blow up. The final product he's suggesting doesn't have as many tweaks as the thread title suggests.

[rician blast]

1. Santana
2. Wang
3. Hughes
4. Pettitte
5. Garcia

I'd go to war with that rotation and be very happy.

No shit you'd be happy.

[Rdsxmbnt]

HIGHLY underrating what it would take to get Santana

[redsoxrules]

Guys, the season isn't over. Not even half over.

you're right , however the yanks will need to win at least at a .660 clip from here on out to make the playoffs , and i cant see that happening with the pitching staff you guys have

[jacksonianmarch]

HIGHLY underrating what it would take to get Santana

in your opinion. By the end of the yr, Kennedy very well could be a top 20 player in the entire minor leagues. Tabata already is and is hitting .300 in A+ ball as a 19 yr old. That is two top 20 prospects. You dont typically land that in a deal, although the twins did a few yrs back in the Pierzynski trade. Also, a guy like Horne very well could be a top 100 guy at the end of the yr too, seeing as he is a powerful pitcher who is dominating AA in his second post collegiate yr.

To get 2 top 20 players and a top 100 is unheard of in most deals. And what would help them even more is that most likely, Tabata could start in AA/AAA and be ready for Minnesota come 2009. Kennedy and Horne would be options next season. What more could you ask for?

The only way the Twins beat that offer is if A: Santana shows he is willing to forgo his FA years and sign an extension with whatever team he is dealt to, and B: if someone goes nuts and offers young major league talent. When thinking of the teams in DIRE pitching need, you dont see them being able to beat that offer. Even when thinking about large market teams who will be in the hunt, you really arent going to find too much in the way of competition for that offer. The sox could offer up Buchholz, but where would their big offensive piece be? Ellsbury isnt the type of prospect Tabata is projected to be. Lars Anderson in A ball? Likely not. And then add in another high level pitching prospect. Alright, I have an offer. Ellsbury, Bowden, and Buchholz for Santana? We could add any number of pitching prospects to be the fourth prospect in the deal (Marquez, Wright, Garcia, etc) that would still trump your move. Our pitching is deep and for this reason, I think we may overwhelm them while keeping what we desperately need to keep.

[yankees228]

Unfortunately, these are the kinds of posts that come from Yankee fans who have been spoiled the last 10 or so years, and expect their team to win every year. Now, Jackson, I understand that you're making good points, but to say they should blow the team up after a bad start to the season is jumping the gun a bit.

I'll say this, there is a reason why fans of other teams find Yankee fans to be annoying and obnoxious.

[Rdsxmbnt]

in your opinion. By the end of the yr, Kennedy very well could be a top 20 player in the entire minor leagues. Tabata already is and is hitting .300 in A+ ball as a 19 yr old. That is two top 20 prospects. You dont typically land that in a deal, although the twins did a few yrs back in the Pierzynski trade. Also, a guy like Horne very well could be a top 100 guy at the end of the yr too, seeing as he is a powerful pitcher who is dominating AA in his second post collegiate yr.

To get 2 top 20 players and a top 100 is unheard of in most deals. And what would help them even more is that most likely, Tabata could start in AA/AAA and be ready for Minnesota come 2009. Kennedy and Horne would be options next season. What more could you ask for?

The only way the Twins beat that offer is if A: Santana shows he is willing to forgo his FA years and sign an extension with whatever team he is dealt to, and B: if someone goes nuts and offers young major league talent. When thinking of the teams in DIRE pitching need, you dont see them being able to beat that offer. Even when thinking about large market teams who will be in the hunt, you really arent going to find too much in the way of competition for that offer. The sox could offer up Buchholz, but where would their big offensive piece be? Ellsbury isnt the type of prospect Tabata is projected to be. Lars Anderson in A ball? Likely not. And then add in another high level pitching prospect. Alright, I have an offer. Ellsbury, Bowden, and Buchholz for Santana? We could add any number of pitching prospects to be the fourth prospect in the deal (Marquez, Wright, Garcia, etc) that would still trump your move. Our pitching is deep and for this reason, I think we may overwhelm them while keeping what we desperately need to keep.

Sorry but no way is Kennedy a top 20 prospect, he'll probaly get in the top 50 but his ceiling isnt that high, probaly a #3 SP. Tabata is a solid prospect probaly in the top 35-30 range although hes still fairly raw and hes only 18 years old, he has a while before hes in the majors. No way does any Yankee pitching prospect other than Hughes even compare to Buchholz right now and his value to begin with. Chamberlain is rising he could eclipse top 35-40 by seasons end. But whats stopping the Dodgers from centering a deal around some package of Broxton (an extremely good young MR/CL), Laroche (a top 10-15 prospect), Kershaw (another top 15 prospect), or include Billingsby, Kemp, Either? No way the Yankees could top something like that without Hughes. Santana is the best SP in the majors bar none and hes in his prime. The Twins will want and get major league ready talent and a handful of top prospects. You saw what FLO got for Beckett and Hanley/Sanchez > Tabata/Kennedy and Santana is on another level than Beckett was. Your dreaming if you think Tabata/Kennedy is a better package than Buchholz/Ellsbury but thats beside the point.

EDIT: Hughes/Tabata/Chamberlain vs. Buchholz/Ellsbury/Bowden is pretty close. Yanks have an edge in Hughes vs. Buchholz but if Hughes ends up being out for the year or any large amount of time which is possible the gap is closing as Buchholz continues to dominate and keeps improving his FB command (Buch is already a top 10 prospect and close to top 5 depending on if you count some graduated spects). Ellsbury vs. Tabata is also pretty even (both in the top 30 range and improving), Tabata has the higher ceiling but Ellsbury is far more likely to reach his and hes still a potential all-star. Considering Hunter is a FA, the Twins would probaly view Ellsbury as more valuable to them in a deal. And Bowden vs. Chamberlain is pretty even, probaly give the edge to the Red Sox considering age although both are potential aces. I doubt either team offers these but theres no way the Yankees could possibly top our top 3 without Hughes and even then its close, guys like Marquez/Garcia/Wright are decent/intriguing but not deal breakers or premier talent.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sorry but no way is Kennedy a top 20 prospect, he'll probaly get in the top 50 but his ceiling isnt that high, probaly a #3 SP. Tabata is a solid prospect probaly in the top 35-30 range although hes still fairly raw and hes only 18 years old, he has a while before hes in the majors. No way does any Yankee pitching prospect other than Hughes even compare to Buchholz right now and his value to begin with. Chamberlain is rising he could eclipse top 35-40 by seasons end. But whats stopping the Dodgers from centering a deal around some package of Broxton (an extremely good young MR/CL), Laroche (a top 10-15 prospect), Kershaw (another top 15 prospect), or include Billingsby, Kemp, Either? No way the Yankees could top something like that without Hughes. Santana is the best SP in the majors bar none and hes in his prime. The Twins will want and get major league ready talent and a handful of top prospects. You saw what FLO got for Beckett and Hanley/Sanchez > Tabata/Kennedy and Santana is on another level than Beckett was. Your dreaming if you think Tabata/Kennedy is a better package than Buchholz/Ellsbury but thats beside the point.

EDIT: Hughes/Tabata/Chamberlain vs. Buchholz/Ellsbury/Bowden is pretty close. Yanks have an edge in Hughes vs. Buchholz but if Hughes ends up being out for the year or any large amount of time which is possible the gap is closing as Buchholz continues to dominate and keeps improving his FB command (Buch is already a top 10 prospect and close to top 5 depending on if you count some graduated spects). Ellsbury vs. Tabata is also pretty even (both in the top 30 range and improving), Tabata has the higher ceiling but Ellsbury is far more likely to reach his and hes still a potential all-star. Considering Hunter is a FA, the Twins would probaly view Ellsbury as more valuable to them in a deal. And Bowden vs. Chamberlain is pretty even, probaly give the edge to the Red Sox considering age although both are potential aces. I doubt either team offers these but theres no way the Yankees could possibly top our top 3 without Hughes and even then its close, guys like Marquez/Garcia/Wright are decent/intriguing but not deal breakers or premier talent.

Hughes is still better than Buchholz is, although Buchholz is approaching his level. Granted, Hughes being 2 yrs younger than Buchholz helps a lot. Bowden does not have Chamberlain's upside but right now he is more consistent and may actually have a little more value. Ellsbury vs Tabata isnt even close. Tabata is 19 and dominating A+ ball. His power is down right now, but he is technically way older than the league he is in. His power potential is through the roof according to many scouts. Ellsbury is essentially a no power, high OBP speed guy who could be very valuable. But he doesnt even sniff the upside of Tabata.

[jacksonianmarch]

In terms of Kennedy being a top 20 prospect, what player are you looking at? Hughes, Lincecum and Bailey are major leaguers now. Kennedy was in the 90s-120s range to begin the season. People were expecting him to be in Charleston. He started out one level higher and DOMINATED. In terms of ace stuff, all he lacks is the fastball. Have you seen the numbers or are you allowing the draft day hype to shade your opinion?

Kennedy is starting one level above where he was expected to and he has a 1.29ERA in 63 innings. He's allowed 39 hits for a .183BAA, he's K'd 72 and walked 22. His WHIP is 0.97. That is exceeding expectations by a mile. And that will send him into the top 20. Chamberlain may not be far behind.

For reference, Kennedy is leading the FSL in ERA, WHIP, 2nd in K's, and 1st in BAA.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Im well aware that hes had a great season thus far. But he doesnt have the stuff to be a #1 or #2 SP, so his ceiling is probaly a #3 at best which will keep him from being an elite prospect. He was throwing less than 90 when he was drafted and now supposedly throws in the 90-91 range, above average change and mid 80's sinker. And has good command. Hes pretty projectable in terms of reaching the majors and he'll move fast and thats not a bad thing but hes behind Hughes, Chamberlain, Betances, Horne and Clippard as a prospect IMO.

[adam123]

wow jackson's out of control . Houston we have a problem .

[jacksonianmarch]

Im well aware that hes had a great season thus far. But he doesnt have the stuff to be a #1 or #2 SP, so his ceiling is probaly a #3 at best which will keep him from being an elite prospect. He was throwing less than 90 when he was drafted and now supposedly throws in the 90-91 range, above average change and mid 80's sinker. And has good command. Hes pretty projectable in terms of reaching the majors and he'll move fast and thats not a bad thing but hes behind Hughes, Chamberlain, Betances, Horne and Clippard as a prospect IMO.

wow, you dont have the right SR. He has a 2 seamer, but it is his 5th pitch.

He has a 89-92 mph fastball with it rising as high as 93-94 depending on the day. He spots it impeccably. But what sets him apart is that he has 5 quality pitches. Like I said

Average 4FB
Average 2FB
Plus changeup
Plus curveball
Plus slider

His slider is #7 in the organization, his changeup #5 in the organization, and his curveball #6 in the organization. And that is prior to this season (according to Patrick Teale, writer for Pinstripes Plus who compiled these lists with collaboration from Nardi Contreras). He has 3 plus off-speed pitches. That is unheard of coming out of college. Hence, all you have to back you up in terms of his detraction is the speed of his fastball. That's it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Im well aware that hes had a great season thus far. But he doesnt have the stuff to be a #1 or #2 SP, so his ceiling is probaly a #3 at best which will keep him from being an elite prospect. He was throwing less than 90 when he was drafted and now supposedly throws in the 90-91 range, above average change and mid 80's sinker. And has good command. Hes pretty projectable in terms of reaching the majors and he'll move fast and thats not a bad thing but hes behind Hughes, Chamberlain, Betances, Horne and Clippard as a prospect IMO.

that all depends. If you are talking about projection, then the only guy I'd put down on that list is Clippard. Even at his very best, Clippard was never THIS good in the minors. If you want to use power as a predictor of where they stand, then I cannot argue with you there. But we also have a few other guys who are worth keeping an eye on and if velocity is a pre-req, all of these guys surpass Kennedy

Ross Ohlendorf- been injured essentially all season, but has a great sinker and good control when he is going right. Could blossom into a top notch prospect if he can stay healthy with his stuff (94mph sinkers in ST before he got injured)

Humberto Sanchez- power arm, TJ surgery

Christian Garcia- power arm, TJ surgery

Mark Melancon- power arm, had TJ surgery

Kevin Whelan- POWER arm, has dominated AA to this point

Alan Horne- power sinkerballer (up to 96mph) who is dominating AA

Jeff Marquez- power sinkerball (sits 92 with the sinker) but is also polished in off speed stuff (2nd best changeup in the system) who is dominating AA.

Betancez, Chamberlain, Reyes, Nova, White, McCallister, Castillo, Kontos, Norton, and McCutchen are all more power pitchers than Kennedy is. But not many of them have his stuff.

[riverside sluggers]

Something about injuries and Yankee pitchers seem to go real well together

[26 to 6]

A lot of this is absolutley absurd and unnecessary.

Dont have time to comment on everything jacko said right now, but for starters, the last thing we need is Adam Dunn's injuries and Strike Outs. I'd rather try and come up with a solution from within (perhaps see if Duncan DOES end up getting his shit together), or pull off a more sensible deal in the trade market, or resort to a reasonable, Teixeria-esque free agent signing.

..I also wouldnt be absolutely opposed to putting Damon there long term for the duration of his contract if we pick up an Ichiro or Andruw (just names you threw out in your other posts).

[yankees228]

A lot of this is absolutley absurd and unnecessary.

Dont have time to comment on everything jacko said right now, but for starters, the last thing we need is Adam Dunn's injuries and Strike Outs. I'd rather try and come up with a solution from within (perhaps see if Duncan DOES end up getting his shit together), or pull off a more sensible deal in the trade market, or resort to a reasonable, Teixeria-esque free agent signing.

..I also wouldnt be absolutely opposed to putting Damon there long term for the duration of his contract if we pick up an Ichiro or Andruw (just names you threw out in your other posts).

With Dunn's ability to get on base I'd be willing to overlook his other problems (unless he is consistently getting injured).

[ORS]

Kennedy as a top-20 is pure comedy. He's pitched well, but he just doesn't have the tools to get rated that high. His scouting report is remarkably similar to Clippard. Not overpowering, good offspeed stuff, good control. He's even having similar rate results, of course he's two years older than Clippard was down there. Hell, he's only 2 months older than Clippard now. Imagine Clippard against the kids in the FSL. Only thing is, Clippard didn't even make BA's top-100 this year. Good luck with that one.

Tabata came in at 27 on the BA list, but that was before the first hint of some tarnish on the resume. I've read reports that he has to report to the park early to ride the bike in order to maintain his weight. One of the funnier things you hear like dogma from Yankee fans is the quote from a scout that said he reminded him of a young Manny Ramirez. Who, by the way, was putting up an 1100+ OPS as a 19 year old. Great scouting report. He's going to have to do something with that .064 IsoD in order to move up. My guess is he slips, and without power, he doesn't come close to Ellsbury in speed and fielding.

Chamberlin is only one there I see with some realistic ceiling. Of course, he's the same age Buchholz was last year in A-/A+, and Buchholz dominated but only came in at 51.

To top it all off, what's with all this below AA talk? Oh, that's right, the Yankees no longer have anyone at AA or higher worth paying attention to, so that caveat no longer matters.

[Taliesin]

I'll say this, there is a reason why fans of other teams find Yankee fans to be annoying and obnoxious.

Yeah, exactly.

[ORS]

Kennedy.T20 is getting a warm welcome to AA.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kennedy as a top-20 is pure comedy. He's pitched well, but he just doesn't have the tools to get rated that high. His scouting report is remarkably similar to Clippard. Not overpowering, good offspeed stuff, good control. He's even having similar rate results, of course he's two years older than Clippard was down there. Hell, he's only 2 months older than Clippard now. Imagine Clippard against the kids in the FSL. Only thing is, Clippard didn't even make BA's top-100 this year. Good luck with that one.

Tabata came in at 27 on the BA list, but that was before the first hint of some tarnish on the resume. I've read reports that he has to report to the park early to ride the bike in order to maintain his weight. One of the funnier things you hear like dogma from Yankee fans is the quote from a scout that said he reminded him of a young Manny Ramirez. Who, by the way, was putting up an 1100+ OPS as a 19 year old. Great scouting report. He's going to have to do something with that .064 IsoD in order to move up. My guess is he slips, and without power, he doesn't come close to Ellsbury in speed and fielding.

Chamberlin is only one there I see with some realistic ceiling. Of course, he's the same age Buchholz was last year in A-/A+, and Buchholz dominated but only came in at 51.

To top it all off, what's with all this below AA talk? Oh, that's right, the Yankees no longer have anyone at AA or higher worth paying attention to, so that caveat no longer matters.

Horne, Marquez, and Whelan are worth paying attention to. Hey, aside from the 2 B's the pitching in your system is barren.

[riverside sluggers]

It will all even out once they start dealing them off in trades

[ARod2212]

you're right , however the yanks will need to win at least at a .660 clip from here on out to make the playoffs , and i cant see that happening with the pitching staff you guys have Way too much of a big picture look for me. One game at a time is how you get things done. Clemens will help, Hughes will help, and Clippard looks like he'll hold the fort down in the meantime. Just win today, worry about tomorrow then.

[ORS]

....{nonsense}.....I'll take the 3 26 and under with the big club - from the sound of things Lester will be up right around the break - and the two B's over what you've got.

[jacksonianmarch]

by the way. Kennedy through 5.

5IP 6H 4ER 6K 0BB. 6K in 5 innings is solid and aside from the homer, he has been pretty solid. He is holding his own.

[jacksonianmarch]

It will all even out once they start dealing them off in trades


thats what I'm afraid of.

[jacksonianmarch]

by the way. Kennedy through 5.

5IP 6H 4ER 6K 0BB. 6K in 5 innings is solid and aside from the homer, he has been pretty solid. He is holding his own.

and I take that back. A nice start to his start (retired first 9 in a row), a horrible finish. Get em next time.

[ORS]

by the way. Kennedy through 5.

5IP 6H 4ER 6K 0BB. 6K in 5 innings is solid and aside from the homer, he has been pretty solid. He is holding his own.
6IP 9H 6ER 6K 1BB --- solid indeed

And the pitching cupboard isn't barren. The full season debuts of Johnson, Bard, and Masterson haven't been good, but that's why it's the minors. Those are quality arms, and they have time to develop. Then there's Clay, a 1s from last year who hasn't debuted yet. The best of the rest are guys like Gabbard and Pauley, but I won't blow the smoke you do and try and call those guys legit prospects like you do with Horne and Wright.

[jacksonianmarch]

Horne is a legitimate prospect. Wright is more of a back end of the rotation guy, most likely in the NL, ie not.

The reason why you wont blow any smoke is because you dont have any smoke to blow. Gabbard is just like Wright. Pauley is just like Karstens. Aside from random 5th starter depth, I havent advocated either as long term solutions.

[ORS]

Horne is a legitimate prospect. Wright is more of a back end of the rotation guy, most likely in the NL, ie not.

The reason why you wont blow any smoke is because you dont have any smoke to blow. Gabbard is just like Wright. Pauley is just like Karstens. Aside from random 5th starter depth, I havent advocated either as long term solutions.
Horne is the same age as Gabbard was last year in AA......and he's getting similar results. The only people talking about this guy think Derek Jeter has good range. In other words, just Yankee fans.

[jacksonianmarch]

Horne is the same age as Gabbard was last year in AA......and he's getting similar results. The only people talking about this guy think Derek Jeter has good range. In other words, just Yankee fans.

people will talk about him this offseason. He has power stuff. Just like all the ratings systems like. And he is dominating AA. How many other criteria do you want to make up to try and discredit me? He'll be in the top 100 this offseason and will likely be a Bronx option in 2008.

[jacksonianmarch]

oh, and the reason why Horne is older is because he has already had TJ surgery in college. He lost a yr and a half.

[jacksonianmarch]

In regards to Kennedy, the MiLB.com guy who is running it has fallen asleep. Kennedy was taken out after 5. His final line was...

5IP 4ER 6H 0BB 6K