Tito's new line-up

[mtbykr]

I don't have time to make a gamethread, but thought i would post the new-look lineup for tonight:


1. J.D. Drew, RF
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Manny Ramirez, LF
5. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
6. Mike Lowell, 3B
7. Jason Varitek, C
8. Coco Crisp, CF
9. Julio Lugo, SS
-- Josh Beckett, SP

[mtbykr]

I guess it helps manram with Deuce behind him, other than that i wonder why the change. (except the obvious fact that we can't hit lately)

[yankees228]

Has Drew ever hit leadoff before?

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't have time to make a gamethread, but thought i would post the new-look lineup for tonight:


1. J.D. Drew, RF
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Manny Ramirez, LF
5. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
6. Mike Lowell, 3B
7. Jason Varitek, C
8. Coco Crisp, CF
9. Julio Lugo, SS
-- Josh Beckett, SP

so he has essentially stacked the 3 worst hitters on the team. 8-9-1

[TedWilliams101]

Yea, I don't like that. 8-1 are automatic outs. JD Drew doesn't belong anywhere near the top of the lineup.
1. Youkilis
2. Pedroia
3. Ortiz
4. Ramirez
5. Lowell
6. Varitek
7. WMP
8. Drew
9. Lugo

Drew needs to be near the bottom of the lineup and Coco needs to start riding the bench more often. Yes, he has great defense, but he has NO offense what so ever right now. WMP does strike out often, but at least when he makes contact, he hits the ball hard, and is good for a HR every 20AB or so.

[redsoxrules]

id put pedroia leadoff and drew second . that way drew would be hitting in front of ortiz and would get good pitches to hit .

[rician blast]

id put pedroia leadoff and drew second . that way drew would be hitting in front of ortiz and would get good pitches to hit .

Well, let's just say he'd get good pitches...hitting them is an entirely different story.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, let's just say he'd get good pitches...hitting them is an entirely different story.

he has been getting great pitches to hit.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

4-6 is all righties...not sure if i like that. Drew leading off may be worth a try though.

[BoSox21]

Has Drew ever hit leadoff before?

EEI said Drew has hit leadoff around 50 times with an average around .250

[rician blast]

he has been getting great pitches to hit.

I know...right now pitchers are going right after him cuz he blows.

[adam123]

It's a very interesting concept of putting one of our worst hitters to bat lead off not so sure about JD right now. The offense need's some kind of jump start. Can't aford to loose these gimmie game and let the yankee's right back in it. our lead has been cut to 8/1/2 games we can't let them get in striking distance.

[example1]

EEI said Drew has hit leadoff around 50 times with an average around .250

The average is totally unimportant. Its the OBP that matters when talking about a leadoff guy and he had 1 AB between 04 and 06, and 5 in 03. I didn't look back farther than that. I'm not willing to draw ANY conclusions on 6 ABs.

While I don't necessarily like this move I'm not going so far as to say Drew is some black hole at the top of the lineup (or anywhere in the lineup). He is cold, but that's baseball. He will hit better.

I don't see a need for drastic changes to the lineup unless the Sox think they could be perminant or very long term. I don't see JD Drew as a long term option at leadoff so it kind of feels like Francona has some ADD in terms of his lineup and can't help but make changes.

[example1]

he has been getting great pitches to hit.

I'm not feeling this comment. Very hard to prove. How do you measure that? I mean, I watch the games too and wouldn't say he has had "great" pitches to hit.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not feeling this comment. Very hard to prove. How do you measure that? I mean, I watch the games too and wouldn't say he has had "great" pitches to hit.

They are attacking him in all quadrants of the zone. That is usually reserved for the suckbags of the team. Most hitters have one or two, or in Papi's case, 3 quadrants that you tread in with care. Not Drew. I have seen them throw pitches in hitters counts to every corner of the zone and he has missed them. He is a lefty, they should love em low and in, but he is taking those pitches or pulling them foul. He cannot get up on the up and in pitch at all even when he is going good, so moot point. He is rolling over on the outside and low pitch and for some reason he is not getting around much on the up and away pitch, and when he is, he is top handing it into a groundout. His swing is so fucked up right now that they can attack him in all parts of the zone. This is why I say that he has gotten great pitches to hit. All hitters have a zone that they love, and Drew has seen his share of pitches in all zones and just hasnt connected.

[schillingouttheks]

His first strikeout last night....that was a "great" pitch to hit. Right down the heart of the plate.

[Rodney Harrison]

Has Drew ever hit leadoff before?
Last time he did was on 6/18/03 with the Cards against the Brewers. He went 0-for-5 with a walk and a run scored .

[riverside sluggers]

EEI said Drew has hit leadoff around 50 times with an average around .250

Batting 2nd
197 games- 190 for 710 (.268 avg) (.372 obp) (.444 slg) (.815 ops) 27 Doubles, 7 Triples, 28 HRs, 73 RBIs, 137 Runs, 108 Walks, 145 Ks, 23 SBs

[example1]

They are attacking him in all quadrants of the zone. That is usually reserved for the suckbags of the team. Most hitters have one or two, or in Papi's case, 3 quadrants that you tread in with care. Not Drew. I have seen them throw pitches in hitters counts to every corner of the zone and he has missed them. He is a lefty, they should love em low and in, but he is taking those pitches or pulling them foul. He cannot get up on the up and in pitch at all even when he is going good, so moot point. He is rolling over on the outside and low pitch and for some reason he is not getting around much on the up and away pitch, and when he is, he is bottom handing it into a groundout. His swing is so fucked up right now that they can attack him in all parts of the zone. This is why I say that he has gotten great pitches to hit. All hitters have a zone that they love, and Drew has seen his share of pitches in all zones and just hasnt connected.

Convenient that the 2 HRs the other night aren't mentioned. I'm not saying this guy is hitting well... he clearly is not. But do I feel that I have a good idea about whether it is entirely him missing hittable pitches or because the pitches were great. He isn't ripping the ball no matter what, and your quadrant comment is spot-on. I still just don't think it reflects on his overall ability as a hitter. I think he is a good hitter who isn't hitting well right now. You know, like Abreu was the for past 6 weeks and appears to be snapping out of now. Hitting is streaky, Drew's in a bad streak.

[jacksonianmarch]

Convenient that the 2 HRs the other night aren't mentioned. I'm not saying this guy is hitting well... he clearly is not. But do I feel that I have a good idea about whether it is entirely him missing hittable pitches or because the pitches were great. He isn't ripping the ball no matter what, and your quadrant comment is spot-on. I still just don't think it reflects on his overall ability as a hitter. I think he is a good hitter who isn't hitting well right now. You know, like Abreu was the for past 6 weeks and appears to be snapping out of now. Hitting is streaky, Drew's in a bad streak.

the 2 homeruns are on one night. Baseball is not about one night. It is about consistency.

And the thing that people have with Drew is the argument that he could be hurt. Either the shoulder, the back, whatever. I would think that a guy who rolls over on the ball SO much could have an issue with his bottom hand, ie his lead hand, ie the right shoulder. And that is the shoulder that was shown to be degenerated enough to fail a physical.

[example1]

the 2 homeruns are on one night. Baseball is not about one night. It is about consistency.

And the thing that people have with Drew is the argument that he could be hurt. Either the shoulder, the back, whatever. I would think that a guy who rolls over on the ball SO much could have an issue with his bottom hand, ie his lead hand, ie the right shoulder. And that is the shoulder that was shown to be degenerated enough to fail a physical.

Yes, 2 homeruns are on one night. He had 2 3-hit games in a row. But that's not the point. The point is that the sample size you should be looking at is not 6 ABs or 60 games, but it is his career numbers or his numbers over his last 5 seasons. We don't need to rely on a small sample size when there are larger ones.

You were pointing out that he was incapable of hitting meatballs in any zone. I pointed out he hit two out of the yard 4 nights ago, which serve as a counter example.

I think you could be right about the injury. he could also just be cold.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

So I'm not crazy at the looks of the new lineup...but Tito is doing finally doing something DRASTIC to shake things up a bit. I can at least appreciate that, and who knows, maybe it'll work out?

[Beckett95]

Youk
Pedroia
Ortiz
Manny
Lowell
Drew/Willy Mo
Lugo
Varitek
Ellsbury

[redsoxrules]

so yeah tonites lineup wasent a good idea

[example1]

so yeah tonites lineup wasent a good idea

:lol: :lol:

No, it wasn't that good. Here's what I like given the players we have:

Lugo
Youkilis
Ortiz
Manny
Drew
Lowell
Varitek
Crisp
Pedroia

I have no stats present to back it up, but that's the one I've been most comfortable with this season. I like Youkilis in front of Ortiz a whole lot. I still want Drew up when it matters. Lowell and Varitek will do their thing and Crisp belongs at the bottom of the order. Pedroia will scrap at the bottom of the order. Too many games have been coming down to the last at bats, which makes everyone freak out about batting order. If this team is really producing then they should have many games where they put runs on the board earlier and the importance of having lugo get 5 ABs should be mitigated. I think players should hit where their skills best suit them, not so much based on who is hot.

Of course, if I had my way and Ellsbury came up then the core of the lineup could be surrounded with home-grown type hitters, offering a lot of protection.

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Manny
Drew
Youkilis
Lowell
Varitek
Lugo

Lugo sucks, but at least he sucks in the position where sucky hitters hit.

[schillingouttheks]

My perfect lineup?

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Ramirez
Drew
Lowell
Youkilis
Varitek
Lugo

EDIT: Eh, Drew was brought here to be the 5 hitter and I'm going to keep him there.

[CrespoBlows]

My perfect lineup?

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Ramirez
Drew
Lowell
Youkilis
Varitek
Lugo

EDIT: Eh, Drew was brought here to be the 5 hitter and I'm going to keep him there.

Youkilis
Pedroia
Ortiz
Ramirez
Lowell
Pena
Drew
Varitek
Lugo

You're highest OBP guy can't be getting 108 fewer PA than Pedroia.

[BSN07]

I don't care if they lead of with Tek, try anything until you find something that actually has production...

[TheKilo]

Play WMP and hit him 8th.


Lugo
Youks
Ortiz
Manny
Drew
Lowell
Tek
WMP
Pedroia

[jacksonianmarch]

Play WMP and hit him 8th.


Lugo
Youks
Ortiz
Manny
Drew
Lowell
Tek
WMP
Pedroia

damn. 2 lefties in a row. WMP should be in there.

[example1]

Despite the good victory tonight I just don't like this lineup. I think Pedroia is just a good hitter and so is Drew. I don't think it had much to do with where they are in the lineup.

Pedroia should be a #2 hitter for the rest of his career. He has great bat control and hits the ball hard, draws walks, etc., I like having him up in big situations because he puts the ball in play but works counts.

Drew should be a #5 hitter, and that's where he'll be as soon as Francona realizes he's hitting well. The best thing he does is spread the power if he leads off, but it isn't the best use of his skills.

Now that I think about it though, Youkilis's performance this year has given the Sox 2 legitimate options at the #5 spot and I don't like Youkilis leading off that much. It's hard to say, but overall I don't think this is the lineup the Sox will have for the rest of the year.

[TheKilo]

If Lugo picks it up a bit he'll move back to the leadoff spot. Youks will go to #2, and Pedroia will go to #8.