View Full Version : Clemens suspended 5 games, Torre for 1
redsoxrules
08-09-2007, 05:24 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7107624
Youk Of The Nation
08-09-2007, 08:17 PM
You know, when it comes to suspensions I never thought it was fair for pitchers versus position players. When a player gets suspended for five games, they miss five starts. When a pitcher does, they miss one, or with an off day, none. If you're going to suspend a pitcher, suspend him for two starts instead of five games or something.
They suspend pitchers for 5 knowing they will only miss one.
Youk Of The Nation
08-09-2007, 08:33 PM
Yeah thats the problem. They should miss at least two or three like position players have to.
Optimist
08-09-2007, 08:47 PM
Ridiculous. How about the pitcher that actually hurt the batter and started the whole thing gets something as well? Or MLB worries about something actually important?
Youk Of The Nation
08-09-2007, 08:56 PM
Clemens hit Rios AFTER the warnings. Thems the rules.
jacksonianmarch
08-09-2007, 08:58 PM
Clemens will appeal and they will likely reduce it by one game. Hence, I dont think this screws us up at all.
MDF3530
08-10-2007, 01:50 AM
Rocket has always been a bit of a headhunter.
yeszir
08-10-2007, 04:23 AM
So Clemens is suspended for sucking so badly, right?
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 08:49 AM
So Clemens is suspended for sucking so badly, right?
I'm surprised yankees228 hasnt made a post about his disappointment in the rocket and that this one suspension makes him the suckiest pitcher on the staff.
das11209
08-10-2007, 08:56 AM
Hopefully we get to see Igawa pitch again - who actually may not be worse than Clemens at this point.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 09:07 AM
aside from one start, clemens has been dynamite.
(I think I put this quote in another thread, let me find it.)
das11209
08-10-2007, 09:14 AM
aside from one start, clemens has been dynamite.
(I think I put this quote in another thread, let me find it.)
I don't know anymore - all the fierce aces( Wang, Clemens, Hughes) are sucking bigtime in some starts. I know the bats are dynamite for the Yankees - but do they have a sure shot starting pitcher any more? What if that 1 start is a Game 5/ Game 7 in the playoff?
redsoxrules
08-10-2007, 12:48 PM
aside from one start, clemens has been dynamite.
(I think I put this quote in another thread, let me find it.)
except from 1 start? WTF
he's had 5 shitty starts
june 21 colorado
june 27 baltimore
july 13 tampa bay
july 28 baltimore
august 02 chicago
he's had 3 good start
june 09 pittsburg
june 15 NY mets
july 18 toronto
and he's had 4 great start
july 02 minesota
july 07 LA angels
july 23 kansas city
august 07 toronto
i wouldn't call him being dynamite
26 Reasons to Hate Us
08-10-2007, 12:55 PM
I don't know anymore - all the fierce aces( Wang, Clemens, Hughes) are sucking bigtime in some starts. I know the bats are dynamite for the Yankees - but do they have a sure shot starting pitcher any more? What if that 1 start is a Game 5/ Game 7 in the playoff?
Clemens has had 1 bad start, and Wang 1. I wouldn't worry too much yet. If you look at quality starts this season (see below), there really isn't too much difference between the yankee 'aces' and the Sox aces. Hughes is young and cannot be expected to be a 'fierce ace' just yet. Besides, he probably wouldn't even start a playoff game unless there was an injury.
Quality starts this season:
Pettitte 15 (24 starts)
Matsuzaka 15(23 starts)
Beckett 14 (21 starts)
Wang 13 (21 starts)
*Clemens, Hughes do not have enough starts to make the list.
redsoxrules
08-10-2007, 01:00 PM
Clemens has had 1 bad start, and Wang 1. I wouldn't worry too much yet. If you look at quality starts this season (see below), there really isn't too much difference between the yankee 'aces' and the Sox aces. Hughes is young and cannot be expected to be a 'fierce ace' just yet. Besides, he probably wouldn't even start a playoff game unless there was an injury.
Quality starts this season:
Pettitte 15 (24 starts)
Matsuzaka 15(23 starts)
Beckett 14 (21 starts)
Wang 13 (21 starts)
*Clemens, Hughes do not have enough starts to make the list.
your being generous with pettitte , i give him 12 at the most , actually i have him at 11
actaully this is what i came up with
beckett (15)
dice k (15)
wang (11)
pettitte(11)
das11209
08-10-2007, 01:10 PM
I think of late those quality starts for the Yankee pitchers have been few and far between - but the bats have picked them up nicely. I still find it hard to swallow that Clemens did not get a loss in his outing against the white sox after giving up 8 runs in the second innings.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:23 PM
actually, of the last 10 games, our starters have put up 6 QS's. 60% is not too bad from an entire staff. It is just that the other 4 games were assisted with massive offense as well. You put up a QS when your team is scoring 6,7,8 runs a game in stretches, then those are victories.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:32 PM
your being generous with pettitte , i give him 12 at the most , actually i have him at 11
actaully this is what i came up with
beckett (15)
dice k (15)
wang (11)
pettitte(11)
Who cares how many they have had, the big deal is the QS percentage since most of the yankee pitchers have missed some time. Here it is..
Beckett 67%
Matsuzaka 65%
Pettitte 63%
Wang 62%
Clemens 58%
Mussina 53%
Schilling 50%
Wakefield 48%
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:36 PM
And considering the top 4 in each rotation right now (As Hughes and Lester have only made 3 starts apiece)
BOS
48 for 83
57.8%
NYY
45 for 76
59.2%
Pretty damn similar if you ask me.
redsoxrules
08-10-2007, 01:45 PM
Who cares how many they have had, the big deal is the QS percentage since most of the yankee pitchers have missed some time. Here it is..
Beckett 67%
Matsuzaka 65%
Pettitte 63%
Wang 62%
Clemens 58%
Mussina 53%
Schilling 50%
Wakefield 48%
beckett and wang both have 21 starts pettite has 24 and dice k 23
so QS percentage
beckett 71
dicek 65
wang52
pettitte 45
das11209
08-10-2007, 01:46 PM
'Quality starts' could be a matter of opinion :
July 29th vs Baltimore W 10-6 Wang 6 IP 9H 3ER
July 31st vs Chicago W 16-3 Mussina 6IP 6H 3ER
Aug 1st vs Chicago W 8-1 Pettitte 7IP 6H 1ER
Aug 2nd vs Chicago L 13-9 Clemens 1.2 IP 9 H 3ER
Aug 3rd vs KC W 7-1 Wang 7IP 7H 1ER
Aug 4th vs KC W 16-8 Hughes 4.2IP 7H 6ER
Aug 5th vs KC W 8-5 Mussina 6IP 9H 2ER
Aug 6th vs Toronto W 5-4 Pettitte 5.3IP 6H 3ER
Aug 7th vs Toronto W 9-2 Clemens 6IP 2H 1ER
AUG 8TH vs Toronto L 15-4 Wang 2.2IP 9H 8ER.
Most important part is they are 8-2 as the offence scored 107 runs ( 10.7 runs/game). The only ace like outing in my opinion was by Clemens vs Toronto on 7th. The rest (July 31st, Aug 1st and Aug 3rd) was decent at best considering the opponent they faced and the number of hits they gave up.
All I am saying is the starting pitching has been anything but great of late - but they are winning with their offence anyway - do you disagree? Obviously if the offence can maintain these kind of momentum against far better teams - Yankees will have no problem making the play-off irrespective of pitching.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:47 PM
beckett and wang both have 21 starts pettite has 24 and dice k 23
so QS percentage
beckett 71
dicek 65
wang52
pettitte 45
check ESPN.com, they have the QS's listed and the QS%. Your %ages are way off.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:48 PM
'Quality starts' could be a matter of opinion :
July 29th vs Baltimore W 10-6 Wang 6 IP 9H 3ER
July 31st vs Chicago W 16-3 Mussina 6IP 6H 3ER
Aug 1st vs Chicago W 8-1 Pettitte 7IP 6H 1ER
Aug 2nd vs Chicago L 13-9 Clemens 1.2 IP 9 H 3ER
Aug 3rd vs KC W 7-1 Wang 7IP 7H 1ER
Aug 4th vs KC W 16-8 Hughes 4.2IP 7H 6ER
Aug 5th vs KC W 8-5 Mussina 6IP 9H 2ER
Aug 6th vs Toronto W 5-4 Pettitte 5.3IP 6H 3ER
Aug 7th vs Toronto W 9-2 Clemens 6IP 2H 1ER
AUG 8TH vs Toronto L 15-4 Wang 2.2IP 9H 8ER.
Most important part is they are 8-2 as the offence scored 107 runs ( 10.7 runs/game). The only ace like outing in my opinion was by Clemens vs Toronto on 7th. The rest (July 31st, Aug 1st and Aug 3rd) was decent at best considering the opponent they faced and the number of hits they gave up.
All I am saying is the starting pitching has been anything but great of late - but they are winning with their offence anyway - do you disagree? Obviously if the offence can maintain these kind of momentum against far better teams - Yankees will have no problem making the play-off irrespective of pitching.
Their pitching has been respectable, their offense has been unbelievable. When the pitching has been bad, they have been really bad. When they have been good, which is most of the time, they have been pretty good.
redsoxrules
08-10-2007, 01:52 PM
check ESPN.com, they have the QS's listed and the QS%. Your %ages are way off.
it all depends on how you rate a QS , theres no fucking way pettitte should be at 63 , look at his game log
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?split=0&league=al&season=2007&seasonType=2&sort=QSPct&type=pitch2&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=all
here is the link.
Beckett is 12th in the AL at 67%
Matsuzaka is 14th in the AL at 65%
Pettitte is 19th in the AL at 63%
Wang is 21st at 62%
Clemens is 26th at 58%
Mussina is 33rd at 53%
Schilling is 37th at 50%
Wakefield is 51st at 48%
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 01:53 PM
it all depends on how you rate a QS , theres no fucking way pettitte should be at 63 , look at his game log
How you rate a quality start? A quality start is 6+IP with 3 or less runs. It is an actual stat.
redsoxrules
08-10-2007, 02:00 PM
How you rate a quality start? A quality start is 6+IP with 3 or less runs. It is an actual stat.
so lets say pettitte pitches 6 innings and allows 8 hits and walks 3 batters and allows 3 runs , you would call that a QS ? i wouldn't, i know its a stat but i dont find it a good one cause it dosent consider all the runners you let on base , runs only
das11209
08-10-2007, 02:01 PM
And quality start does not take account of the opponent also - if they are good or they really suck.
KeepTheFaith1229
08-10-2007, 02:05 PM
so lets say pettitte pitches 6 innings and allows 8 hits and walks 3 batters and allows 3 runs , you would call that a QS ? i wouldn't, i know its a stat but i dont find it a good one cause it dosent consider all the runners you let on base , runs only
I wouldn't either but it's not just something he is saying, it's a real stat.
26 Reasons to Hate Us
08-10-2007, 02:06 PM
so lets say pettitte pitches 6 innings and allows 8 hits and walks 3 batters and allows 3 runs , you would call that a QS ?
Yes. It means they didn't have their best stuff, but stil battled, got outs when they had to and kept their team in the game.
your being generous with pettitte , i give him 12 at the most , actually i have him at 11
actaully this is what i came up with
beckett (15)
dice k (15)
wang (11)
pettitte(11)
They actually keep track of this sort of stuff:
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/stats/pitching/?sort=QS
CrespoBlows
08-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Yes. It means they didn't have their best stuff, but stil battled, got outs when they had to and kept their team in the game.
Instead of typing out that cliche, you could have substituted the word, "Lucky."
26 Reasons to Hate Us
08-10-2007, 02:10 PM
Instead of typing out that cliche, you could have substituted the word, "Lucky."
Call it what you want. Dice-BB hasn't given up an unearned run yet this year. That could be called lucky too.
Call it what you want. Dice-BB hasn't given up an unearned run yet this year. That could be called lucky too.
Why would that be lucky if the discussion is about quality starts? Nice try.
26 Reasons to Hate Us
08-10-2007, 02:28 PM
Why would that be lucky if the discussion is about quality starts? Nice try.
I'm not trying to relate it to quality starts, just saying in general. Call it bearing down and getting out of jams, or call it luck. Either way, every pitcher goes through it.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 04:55 PM
A QS in and of itself is not meaningful. Many quality starts over the course of the season is meaningful. It means that..
A. You are consistent
B. You can get out of jams
or rarely
C. You are ridiculously dominant.
For every shitty QS there are a few games where they dont meet the criteria but they deserved better. I find QS% to be a pretty accurate measure of consistency.
yankees228
08-10-2007, 05:01 PM
I'm surprised yankees228 hasnt made a post about his disappointment in the rocket and that this one suspension makes him the suckiest pitcher on the staff.
I make one post about a pitcher, who has some numbers that sort of scare you about his future (and I think I backed this up), yet you get the reputation being a constant critic? I don't see the logic in that one.
yankees228
08-10-2007, 05:19 PM
Even if Clemens suspension isn't reduced he should be able to serve it around an off-day, possibly August 23, depending on how quickly the league makes it's decision. Therefore the Yankees wouldn't have to call someone else up to make a spot start.
However, if his suspension is reduced, even by one game, then there is obviously nothing to worry about.
TheKilo
08-10-2007, 05:28 PM
I make one post about a pitcher, who has some numbers that sort of scare you about his future (and I think I backed this up), yet you get the reputation being a constant critic? I don't see the logic in that one.
I like you, so I'll let you in on a secret.
At times, thta guy can be the biggest douchebag on this board, and the most frustrating to argue with due to the face he completely ignores the excellent points you make.
redsoxrules
08-10-2007, 05:50 PM
clemens is not appealing the suspension , so his 5 game starts tonight
yankees228
08-10-2007, 05:55 PM
clemens is not appealing the suspension , so his 5 game starts tonight
Very odd, unless he has some sort of injury as rotoworld is speculating.
Chien Ming Wang starts Monday and Jeff Karstens will start Tuesday (in all probability). Per yankees.lohudblogs.com.
TheKilo
08-10-2007, 05:59 PM
Clemens wants to delay his regression to the BABIP mean.
yankees228
08-10-2007, 07:48 PM
OK, so here's what I've gathered about Clemens not appealing the suspension.
1.) The Yankees don't feel that there is any chance of MLB reducing the suspension, considering the reason they gave him five games is so he will miss a start, and anything less wouldn't mean anything.
2.) I mentioned before that he should have appealed the suspension, and even if it was not reduced, they would be able to use the off-day on August 23rd so he wouldn't miss a start. I should have realized that this doesn't make sense. The suspension is for five games, not five days. He would have to miss a start no matter what.
3.) The Yankees simply feel that he should take the suspension sooner rather then later.
jacksonianmarch
08-10-2007, 08:52 PM
So, with Clemens having his start pushed back, there may be yet another debut.
There is speculation that Kennedy could be brought up for one start.
yankees228
08-10-2007, 09:31 PM
So, with Clemens having his start pushed back, there may be yet another debut.
There is speculation that Kennedy could be brought up for one start.
That would really be something, although I would be surprised if it wasn't Karstens.
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