View Full Version : GOM's plan to fix the Yankees
There are definitely going to be changes. There is no doubt. However, this is going to be the unofficial plan to fix the Yankees going into 2008. So here goes....
1) Replace Joe Torre with Joe Girardi or Tony Larussa. Mattingly is a fan favorite, but both of these guys are better managers. Larussa is as good as it comes with managing a pen, and Girardi is almost as sharp. Joe Torre, while being a player's manager, can't manage a bullpen. To me, in the AL, that's all a manager needs to do. Also, the kind of small ball/situational hitting that is needed but lost on these Yankees may return.
2) Sign Arod to an extension. True...this is his choice. However, as long as he doesn't opt out, give him what he wants over the long haul. The Yankees can sign him to a 5-7 year extension at $30 million a year while prorating it [by not losing the next three years of Arod and his 20+ million from Texas], and keeping his salary at the same place it is for next year.
3a) Ask the Twins for Santana's price. Dangle Cabrera and Kennedy. While I doubt that will be all it will take, it may be a start. Cabrera is integral to any deal for Santana, and it may take Alan Horne in addition or Hughes or Chamberlain for him. However, if you can get Santana without giving up Hughes or Chamberlain, I'd have to jump at it. However, a deal for Santana that includes Cabrera, Kennedy, and Alan Horne for Santana might just get it done. [I admit, I'm biased...how does that sound?]
3b) Trade Giambi. Now, the only way you can trade Giambi is to eat at least half his salary, approximately 11.5 million. Now, as a one year rental, I believe many teams would take Giambi. It's never the short contract, it's the long one that kills teams. Who might take Giambi at 11.5 million for just one year? Many, in my opinion. The Angels would come knocking. So would the Twins probably. I can't see a national league club wanting him to play the field, but the Angels would be a perfect fit for him, giving them Anderson, Vlad, Giambi, and Juan Rivera, going left/right/left/right. Can't hurt. What to get back for Giambi? A player to be named later. A bar of soap. Anything. You can't help but think that Giambi could possibly help them, and as a one year rental, how can he really hurt?
4) As a reward for not opting out for Arod, Boras gets his other client signed, Carlos Pena. Give Pena..hmm...11.5 a year for 3-4 years, which is pretty much his asking price. Basically, you replaced Giambi with Pena. A bit of a risk, considering he hasn't done much except for this year, but hey...we still are the Yankees, and we can eat a bad contract or two.
5) Bring back Abreu at a reduced price. Abreu is the kind of player the Yankees should be looking to bring in. He really is a poor man's Paul O'Neil with better offensive numbers and less of a leader and fielder, but overall, a similar player. 17 million is a lot, Abreu could come back at a 7 million discount from his current salary.
6) Sign Bonds. An unpopular decision for most, but a statistical monster. As good as Posada is, we can't win with him as our number five hitter. Putting Bonds behind Arod gives the Yankees three amazing OBP players in a row in Abreu, Arod, and Bonds. Sign Bonds for...hmmm...a 1 year deal for 12 million. Now...how can we shave off five million [assuming #5 saves us 7 million]?
7) With Bonds penciled in at DH, there is no place for Matsui. Who would take Matsui? Many, many teams would, in my opinion. Seattle, cornering the Japanese market? The Giants, having lost Bonds? The Mets? Of course, the whole trade Matsui thing only happens if Cabrera isn't traded.
8) Resign Rivera and Posada at similar contracts. Calling that a fiscal wash.
Realizing that Santana is a bit of a stretch to say the least, by following my plan, their 2008 payroll will actually drop by about 17-18 million due to Clemens coming off the books.
Their rotation next year would look as follows
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Chamberlain
Kennedy/Mussina
Their lineup would look as follows:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Bonds DH
Pena 1B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
All this can be accomplished with a decrease of 17-19 million dollars from current payroll. In 2009, Pettitte, Mussina, Pavano come off the books. Another 35 million coming off, to be used more efficiently. I hope. Ok, this is just a start. I will add more as I think of it.
riverside sluggers
10-09-2007, 05:45 AM
http://mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=1045
Carlos Pena still has 2 years of arbitration until he's eligible to be a free agent
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 06:13 AM
Sign Bonds yet deal Giambi? They are essentially the same player these days, minus the pigment.
As for Santana, they have tons of good young pitching. But they are losing Hunter and could also use more offense. So I think any deal for Santana needs to start with Cano. I only do that deal if we keep ARod. And any deal that includes Chamberlain needs to be stopped too. Chamberlain has better stuff than 99% of the major leagues, if he carries that over to the rotation he would be dominant from day 1.
We dont need to bring abreu back at a reduced price, we have the ability to bring him back on a 1 yr deal. I'll take flexibility over price any day, especially in NY.
And see above on Pena, he stays in TB for the time being.
BudLight
10-09-2007, 08:17 AM
I don't see Pettite coming back, with Torre being dismissed and Mussina, IMHO, has shown he can no longer compete in the AL East over a 162 game season. Sign Posada to a one year deal, realize that Johnny Damon's bat is valuable, but his arm is shot, put Giambi out of his misery and go and get a 1B who can hit, don't even think about including Cano in any trade talks, and go find a pitching coach who actually knows how to evaluate a starter's health. It is totally inexcusable for Guidry to not have known that Clemens was not ready and that Wang was not ready for their ALDS starts, while Hughes was ready and able.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 08:30 AM
BL, Pettitte coming back will be a crux for us. If he doesnt, then we would need to rely on Hughes as our #2 if we dont go out and get someone better. I dont like that idea. I can live with a bottom 3 of our rotation being Joba/Hughes/Kennedy. But having them be 2-4 and needing to find another start to fill out the rotation would be bad news. Pettitte and Wang would be the buffer that we'd need in the event that one of these kids needs more minor league seasoning off the bat next yr.
He Hate Me
10-09-2007, 08:39 AM
I don't want ARod around if he wants a FA deal from us. For that matter, I don't want Matsui either. I think our starting pitching woes are only half the story, the other is our offense's inability to score in the postseason year after year since Tino and Paulie left.
I say we blow up the offesne, they've shown that they can score like crazy in the regular season but choke big time in the postseason. If ARod opts out, let him go.
I'm done with Giambi, he's completely useless to me at this point, and I actually think that Doug is more useful than Jason is.
Wang needs a pitching coach who will teach him how to mix up his pitches more and not totally rely on one pitch. The only guy in the majors who can get by on one pitch is Mariano and people are starting to catch up to him. A starting pitcher can't rely on only one pitch. Can I suggest starting him on a rising fastball to mix it up with the sinker? He's got the arm to carry off the velocity needed for an effective high riser.
My lineup for next year assuming we don't go nuts in free agency.
1. Damon DH
2. Jeter SS
3. Abreu RF
4. ARod 3B
5. Cano 2B
6. Posada C
7. Melky CF
8. Duncan LF
9. Doug 1B
the names aren't as impressive but what did impressive names get us the last few postseasons?
Starting rotation:
Petite
Wang
Kennedy
Hughes
Chamberlain
4/5 of the SP rotation under 28 and with room to grow led by a legit big game pitcher in Andy. I can live with that.
Still need a bridge to Mo. I'm sure we got some more arms on the farm to bring up who can fill the spot. I won't worry much about it.
Lastly, I love Joe but I think it's time for a change. I'd say make Girardi the manager because of his success with a young team in FL. I think he will push Melky and Robbie closer to their potential. Get whoever was the pitching coach under Girardi.
I'm tired of this team sucking it when it counts the most. I'd rather give a shot to other people and see what happense from there.
VA Sox Fan
10-09-2007, 08:50 AM
Sign Bonds? LMAO, I was actually expecting that.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 08:59 AM
HHM, I think we need a big time ace in our rotation to allow the kids some room to be inconsistent, which they invariably will be. I'd deal away some offense for Santana. Any day of the week. Maybe Robby Cano.
He Hate Me
10-09-2007, 09:02 AM
HHM, I think we need a big time ace in our rotation to allow the kids some room to be inconsistent, which they invariably will be. I'd deal away some offense for Santana. Any day of the week. Maybe Robby Cano.
I agree with you. Everyone on the team is available for Johan IMO. Hell I just traded my created Joba Chamberlain player (84 overall) plus Arod for Santana in MLB 2K7. I'm gonna see if I can get Liriano for Giambi and Hughes.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 09:30 AM
I really dont like the idea of dealing Joba or Hughes for Santana. I'd much rather deal a hitter since having the best offense in baseball has done shit for us the past few seasons. I'd love to reload around a core of Santana and Wang and then strengthen it with solid pitching from Hughes and Joba. That rotation would be dirty.
AlexanderTheGreat13
10-09-2007, 09:30 AM
Anybody have a free agent list?
He Hate Me
10-09-2007, 09:32 AM
I really dont like the idea of dealing Joba or Hughes for Santana. I'd much rather deal a hitter since having the best offense in baseball has done shit for us the past few seasons. I'd love to reload around a core of Santana and Wang and then strengthen it with solid pitching from Hughes and Joba. That rotation would be dirty.
Give the Twins Abreu, Melky and Matsui for Santana, with us eating 50% of Matsui and Abreu's contracts.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 09:32 AM
http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 09:35 AM
Give the Twins Abreu, Melky and Matsui for Santana, with us eating 50% of Matsui and Abreu's contracts.
Lets say we resign ARod, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera.
Then we deal Cano, Horne and Tabata for Santana.
We'd have a rotation of
Santana
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy/Chamberlain
and a lineup of
LF Damon
SS Jeter
RF Abreu
3B ARod
DH Matsui
C Posada
CF Cabrera
2B Betemit
1B Duncan/Giambi
that would be pretty damn filthy
AlexanderTheGreat13
10-09-2007, 09:37 AM
The bullpen needs some work with Joba moving into the rotation. Rivera needs to be back. I like Viz but Fransworth needs to go now.
He Hate Me
10-09-2007, 09:39 AM
Lets say we resign ARod, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera.
Then we deal Cano, Horne and Tabata for Santana.
We'd have a rotation of
Santana
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy/Chamberlain
and a lineup of
LF Damon
SS Jeter
RF Abreu
3B ARod
DH Matsui
C Posada
CF Cabrera
2B Betemit
1B Duncan/Giambi
that would be pretty damn filthy
I can't see them giving us Santana for just those 3. Knowing the Twins, they'll probably ask for a pitcher or two as well. That offense looks about the same as the ones that have sucked ass the last few postseasons. I want more changes dammit!
BudLight
10-09-2007, 09:54 AM
I can't see dealing Cano under any circumstances. This kid is all-star material for years to come. As for dealing the youth for Santana, no way. It's George running the team all over again. The Yanks need one front line starting pitcher and some more heart in the post season. How can a team put up nearly 1000 runs in the regular season and slump so badly year after year in the playoffs? Wang needs to stick with his sinker and stop trying to overpower guys with a belt high fastball when he has two strikes on them. He's not a power pitcher, so don't try to pitch like a power pitcher. Again, Guidry needs to go, he's not the answer for a pitching coach.
After being told emphatically that the Yankees would run away with the division this year, it's apparent they didn't run fast enough, so my plan to fix the Yankees if kind of simple. Buy some running shoes, then get out there and pound the pavement all offseason.
After being told emphatically that the Yankees would run away with the division this year, it's apparent they didn't run fast enough, so my plan to fix the Yankees if kind of simple. Buy some running shoes, then get out there and pound the pavement all offseason.
More true than you think. This team needs to run more and not wait for the homerun.
They were 4th in the AL in SBs. They ran fine. It was, is, and always will be about the pitching in the postseason. They didn't have it, not from day 1, and not at the end.
BudLight
10-09-2007, 10:27 AM
They were 4th in the AL in SBs. They ran fine. It was, is, and always will be about the pitching in the postseason. They didn't have it, not from day 1, and not at the end.
The key words here are "they ran fine" as in past tense. How many SBs did they have in the ALDS? A: 1 - How many did they attempt? A: 2 - How many DPs would they have stayed out of if they ran?
He Hate Me
10-09-2007, 10:56 AM
The key words here are "they ran fine" as in past tense. How many SBs did they have in the ALDS? A: 1 - How many did they attempt? A: 2 - How many DPs would they have stayed out of if they ran?
ugh, 2 attempts against that Johnny Bench clone
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 11:09 AM
we sucked, plain and simple.
Paradisecity
10-09-2007, 11:42 AM
I wouldn't say you sucked- you just weren't the best team, or even one of the top 2 or three in the AL
Clemens really hurt you guys in Game 3. I know they won but if he pitches 5 or 6 then Hughes comes in last night instead of Mussina.
Fixing the yankees isnt that tough- its called don't panic, don't fire cashman, and don't demand a WS next year, in a couple years you guys will be a force.
BudLight
10-09-2007, 12:50 PM
If I were GS for an off-season, the 2008 Yankees would look like this:
1B - Minky, Duncan and Betemit
2B - Cano, Betemit
SS - Jeter
3B - ARod, Betemit
C - Posada, Molina
LF - Cabrera, Damon
CF - Torii Hunter
RF - Abreu
DH - Matsui, Duncan, Betemit, Damon
(Notice no mention of Giambi)
SPs:
Pettite
Wang
Chamberlain
Hughes
Kennedy
Pen:
Mo
Ohlendorff
Sanchez
Veras
Rasner
Wright
Manager:
1. Joe Girardi
2. Tony LaRussa (I personally can't stand him, but he made "winners" out of the Cardinals)
Pitching Coach:
Dave Duncan (made easier if they get Larussa)
Oh yeah, most importantly
GM:
Gene Michael
AlexanderTheGreat13
10-09-2007, 01:33 PM
I hate Larussa and I think he would be a bad fit here.
TheKilo
10-09-2007, 02:02 PM
Cano, Horne, and Tabata for Johan?
lulz
yankees228
10-09-2007, 04:15 PM
Cano, Horne, and Tabata for Johan?
lulz
Agreed. I think it would take a package that includes either Hughes or Chamberlain (at the very least).
TheKilo
10-09-2007, 04:17 PM
Why would the Twins trade Santana with Liriano coming back next year?
Reeeeeeeetarded.
riverside sluggers
10-09-2007, 04:17 PM
Another option for 1st base, which Ive been hearing for awhile, is that the Yanks swing a trade for Oakland's Dan Johnson. The emergence of Daric Barton only increases the chance that he will be dangled
Coco's Disciples
10-09-2007, 05:41 PM
Why would the Twins trade Santana with Liriano coming back next year?
Reeeeeeeetarded.
Definitely. If Liriano is anything close to what we saw in 2006, they will contend for a playoff spot.
Why would the Twins trade Santana with Liriano coming back next year?
Reeeeeeeetarded.
This is something I think people really fail to consider. With those two and the experience gained by Baker and Garza, backed up by their very good BP, I would consider them early favorites to win the AL Central, and possibly the whole shebang.
I think the package to pry Santana away one year early with have to be gangbusters. At a minimum they'll see what they've got, and if it doesn't pan out, trade him to a contender needing a push down the stretch.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 08:00 PM
Se ORS, I disagree. A deal for Santana at the deadline would be way too complicated and would be gambling with a large chance of bankrupting. If you do it in the offseason, you have time to grant windows for negotiation and the time to take multiple teams' offers. I do agree that they wont deal him for nothing and would rather see him walk and get the picks than get nothing in return. But this offseason, they have the potential to get a lot more than that. Think about it. The Angels have some serious bats they could throw their way including Wood, Kotchmann etc and then some serious pitching prospects as well. The Mets could put a package together of Milledge, Gomez and their other dominican dynamite OFer or Pelfrey or Humber or whomever. The Yankees have the trump card IMO if they want to move Cano, or they could get raped in the minor/major league pitching department. Either way, moving the types of guys that would have to move in a Santana deal will require time to replace them, and that is best done in the offseason. Also, right now, it is pretty obvious that the twins wont resign him and that he wants out.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 08:03 PM
Cano, Horne, and Tabata for Johan?
lulz
Why is that so funny? Cano is a 24 yr old good fielding 2b with 3 seasons of .300 hitting under his belt and improving power #s. He is exactly what the twins need.
Se ORS, I disagree. A deal for Santana at the deadline would be way too complicated and would be gambling with a large chance of bankrupting. If you do it in the offseason, you have time to grant windows for negotiation and the time to take multiple teams' offers. I do agree that they wont deal him for nothing and would rather see him walk and get the picks than get nothing in return. But this offseason, they have the potential to get a lot more than that. Think about it. The Angels have some serious bats they could throw their way including Wood, Kotchmann etc and then some serious pitching prospects as well. The Mets could put a package together of Milledge, Gomez and their other dominican dynamite OFer or Pelfrey or Humber or whomever. The Yankees have the trump card IMO if they want to move Cano, or they could get raped in the minor/major league pitching department. Either way, moving the types of guys that would have to move in a Santana deal will require time to replace them, and that is best done in the offseason. Also, right now, it is pretty obvious that the twins wont resign him and that he wants out.
Did that mental masturbatory emission clear your head enough to think straight?
Winning the WS still means something to teams other than the Yankees. I think they'll have a great shot next year with that rotation. And, if it doesn't pan out, they'll still be able to get a nice prospect package at the deadline. Best of both worlds.
TheKilo
10-09-2007, 08:19 PM
Why is that so funny? Cano is a 24 yr old good fielding 2b with 3 seasons of .300 hitting under his belt and improving power #s. He is exactly what the twins need.
Cano is a nice place to start the offer.
Tell me, are you willing to part with Cano, Joba, and Kennedy for Santana?
Joba? You mean Santana, Liriano, and Mauer for Joba, right?
TheKilo
10-09-2007, 08:24 PM
Joba? You mean Santana, Liriano, and Mauer for Joba, right?
lol
I was banned from mfyfans, what's Hughes4.46's predictions for Joba?
Coco's Disciples
10-09-2007, 08:28 PM
lol I tried to register at NYYfans to read some stuff, got this:
August 28, 2007
Dear Yankee Fan,
Part of the reason NYYFans.com is the best place to talk about the Yankees is because we're proactive in keeping troublemakers off of our forum. To that end, new user registration has been temporarily disabled due to the Yankees' upcoming series with the Red Sox. Red Sox fans are a particularly rowdy bunch, and we've found that turning off registration has prevented problems in the past.
Please stay tuned, as registration should be re-opened sometime within the next week or so. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I promise you - it will be worth the wait.
Regards,
Jim F.
NYYF Admin
Upcoming series?
Nice, fucksticks.
jacksonianmarch
10-09-2007, 08:46 PM
Cano is a nice place to start the offer.
Tell me, are you willing to part with Cano, Joba, and Kennedy for Santana?
absolutely not. Cano is the best player the twins will get in return. And if they want Cano, then he will be the only major leaguer they get in return from us. Like I said before...
Cano + our best minor league pitching prospect (Horne) + our best minor league hitting prospect (Tabata) would get it done. Remember, Cano is a .300 hitter with 30+ homer potential who is getting more and more patient as the yrs go on. he also plays a typically non powerful position rather well and is 24 yrs old. There is no other team that will even come close to offering any one player who is better than Cano. And if they want more than that, then we take our chances with Joba. BTW, I wouldnt deal Joba for Santana period. Joba has better stuff.
TheKilo
10-09-2007, 09:11 PM
absolutely not. Cano is the best player the twins will get in return. And if they want Cano, then he will be the only major leaguer they get in return from us. Like I said before...
Cano + our best minor league pitching prospect (Horne) + our best minor league hitting prospect (Tabata) would get it done. Remember, Cano is a .300 hitter with 30+ homer potential who is getting more and more patient as the yrs go on. he also plays a typically non powerful position rather well and is 24 yrs old. There is no other team that will even come close to offering any one player who is better than Cano. And if they want more than that, then we take our chances with Joba. BTW, I wouldnt deal Joba for Santana period. Joba has better stuff.
lol, you you wouldn't trade Joba for about as close to a "sure thing" as it gets in terms of a starter?
You still don't know if Joba can translate into a starter. IMO...his real value would be in the pen.
Soxfan#1
10-09-2007, 09:59 PM
No the Yanks would teach Damon how to play second after dealing Cano.
ARod2212
10-10-2007, 12:09 AM
Upcoming series?
Nice, fucksticks. The reply was sent August 28th, which was during a Yankees-Sox series.
The Twins won't trade Johan until next year. They're going to make a run at it with Santana-Liriano at the top. They've got a good bullpen and enough offensive players to do something. It'll be interesting to see if the Mets dangle Reyes at the Twins and see if they bite. I really don't see a Reyes-Randolph marriage working. Reyes doesn't hustle, and Randolph hates that. At some point one of them is going to have to go. And maybe the Mets make a play for A-Rod to play short.
Fuck Bonds, I don't want him. To me, you can't begin to discuss this team until you sign A-Rod. That is priority, then you work from there.
This is something I think people really fail to consider. With those two and the experience gained by Baker and Garza, backed up by their very good BP, I would consider them early favorites to win the AL Central, and possibly the whole shebang.
I think the package to pry Santana away one year early with have to be gangbusters. At a minimum they'll see what they've got, and if it doesn't pan out, trade him to a contender needing a push down the stretch.
I must admit, I completely agree. It would be foolish for the Twins to do anything but to sign Santana THEMSELVES. If Liriano comes back, they would have the best 1-2 punch in baseball and would have to be considered one of the favorites. If, for whatever reason, they are not in the race, they can trade him. You think that the Yankees, or Sox, or Mets will give up any less at mid-season considering he is signed, as long as he agrees not to opt out of his deal if traded?
Get real. As much as I would love to see Santana in pinstripes next year, the reality is that Minnesota is foolish to trade him right now. Wait until July next year to figure it out.
See Red
10-10-2007, 01:23 AM
I must admit, I completely agree. It would be foolish for the Twins to do anything but to sign Santana THEMSELVES. If Liriano comes back, they would have the best 1-2 punch in baseball and would have to be considered one of the favorites. If, for whatever reason, they are not in the race, they can trade him. You think that the Yankees, or Sox, or Mets will give up any less at mid-season considering he is signed, as long as he agrees not to opt out of his deal if traded?
Get real. As much as I would love to see Santana in pinstripes next year, the reality is that Minnesota is foolish to trade him right now. Wait until July next year to figure it out.
... he will be wearing pinstripes next year. In fact, the Twins have pinstripes on both their home and road uniforms. :D
He Hate Me
10-10-2007, 08:59 AM
Did that mental masturbatory emission clear your head enough to think straight?
Winning the WS still means something to teams other than the Yankees. I think they'll have a great shot next year with that rotation. And, if it doesn't pan out, they'll still be able to get a nice prospect package at the deadline. Best of both worlds.
I think you have to consider that the Twins are owned by the biggest misers in baseball who favor the bottom line over winning. Also, I'm not sure how smart their FO will be without Ryan.
I've considered it. A postseason appearance is worth substantially more money than Santana's '08 salary. The miserly behavior will be witnessed through them not paying him more with an extension.
He Hate Me
10-10-2007, 09:56 AM
I've considered it. A postseason appearance is worth substantially more money than Santana's '08 salary. The miserly behavior will be witnessed through them not paying him more with an extension.
and I doubt he will sign that extension offer, thereby forcing the Twins to deal him or lose him in FA and getting the draft picks. I must point out that I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins went in either direction.
I think you are missing the point. Sure, they'll trade him, but I think they see what they've got first. With him and Liriano, they are automatic contenders out of the gate. If something happens to make them falter early in the year, they can still trade him before the deadline and get a very good return. The only thing that would shock me is if he's traded before the season starts*.
*Caveat: Unless the trade package is too rich to turn down. The Cano+Horne(are you fucking serious)+Tabata(losing luster) type deal doesn't do it. Not now, hell, maybe not even at the deadline.
Joba? You mean Santana, Liriano, and Mauer for Joba, right?
BTW, I wouldnt deal Joba for Santana period. Joba has better stuff.
It begins.
Wouldn't trade him for Hughes straight up last year, either. :lol:
I think you are missing the point. Sure, they'll trade him, but I think they see what they've got first. With him and Liriano, they are automatic contenders out of the gate. If something happens to make them falter early in the year, they can still trade him before the deadline and get a very good return. The only thing that would shock me is if he's traded before the season starts*.
*Caveat: Unless the trade package is too rich to turn down. The Cano+Horne(are you fucking serious)+Tabata(losing luster) type deal doesn't do it. Not now, hell, maybe not even at the deadline.
Well, ORS, just what will get this guy? I don't see the Yankees moving Cano. Period. So I guess the deal doesn't get done. However, just what team is out there than can offer more than the Yankees or the Dodgers? Will you trade Ellsbury/Buchholz?
I think Cano+Hughes+Duncan probably does it. Hughes had a rough start, but you can see the talent is there, and more importantly, he's taken some of his lumps already, so he's MLB ready. Horne is slotted for AAA next year. They could use some serious life out of their DH spot. He won't hit for a high BA, and he'll K a lot, but Duncan does have good power.
Would I trade Ellsbury/Buchholz? Sure thing. It would hurt losing an exciting young CF/leadoff type and promising young pitcher, but look at what it would do to the rotation. Santana and Beckett plus good potential for improvement from Dice and Lester, where do I sign up? I don't think an extension would be hard to hammer out for a big club, then he's yours through his prime.
Ignoring the Dodgers for a second, who could offer more than the Yankees? Well, if Cano, Hughes, and Joba are off the table, then just about everyone. Those are your three most tradable commodities.
Now including the Dodgers, they and the Angels probably have the most spare change to get it done with a gangbusters package.
He Hate Me
10-10-2007, 10:49 AM
I think you are missing the point. Sure, they'll trade him, but I think they see what they've got first. With him and Liriano, they are automatic contenders out of the gate. If something happens to make them falter early in the year, they can still trade him before the deadline and get a very good return. The only thing that would shock me is if he's traded before the season starts*.
*Caveat: Unless the trade package is too rich to turn down. The Cano+Horne(are you fucking serious)+Tabata(losing luster) type deal doesn't do it. Not now, hell, maybe not even at the deadline.
the only thing I have to say to your caveat is Pedro for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas :D
HeadOfSoxNation
10-10-2007, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't say you sucked- you just weren't the best team, or even one of the top 2 or three in the AL
Clemens really hurt you guys in Game 3. I know they won but if he pitches 5 or 6 then Hughes comes in last night instead of Mussina.
Fixing the yankees isnt that tough- its called don't panic, don't fire cashman, and don't demand a WS next year, in a couple years you guys will be a force.
Didn't Mussina pitch like 5 with 2 ER? What more do you want out of a guy?
He Hate Me
10-10-2007, 10:52 AM
I think Cano+Hughes+Duncan probably does it. Hughes had a rough start, but you can see the talent is there, and more importantly, he's taken some of his lumps already, so he's MLB ready. Horne is slotted for AAA next year. They could use some serious life out of their DH spot. He won't hit for a high BA, and he'll K a lot, but Duncan does have good power.
Would I trade Ellsbury/Buchholz? Sure thing. It would hurt losing an exciting young CF/leadoff type and promising young pitcher, but look at what it would do to the rotation. Santana and Beckett plus good potential for improvement from Dice and Lester, where do I sign up? I don't think an extension would be hard to hammer out for a big club, then he's yours through his prime.
Ignoring the Dodgers for a second, who could offer more than the Yankees? Well, if Cano, Hughes, and Joba are off the table, then just about everyone. Those are your three most tradable commodities.
Now including the Dodgers, they and the Angels probably have the most spare change to get it done with a gangbusters package.
I would do Hughes + Duncan + Tabata + another minor league pitcher. I think the Twins would probably look at that with some interest. I'm not opposed to trading Hughes since Johan isn't that old.
the only thing I have to say to your caveat is Pedro for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas :D
That was the Expos, owned by MLB and looking to dump salary. Pedro had just won the CYA and was heading to arbitration. Santana is in the last year of a 4 year extension that avoided his arb years at a consistent rate. Apples to oranges.
I would do Hughes + Duncan + Tabata + another minor league pitcher. I think the Twins would probably look at that with some interest. I'm not opposed to trading Hughes since Johan isn't that old.
Do the math. You just replaced Cano with a guy who didn't amaze in A+ and an unnamed MiLB pitcher. Do you make that trade?
He Hate Me
10-10-2007, 12:06 PM
That was the Expos, owned by MLB and looking to dump salary. Pedro had just won the CYA and was heading to arbitration. Santana is in the last year of a 4 year extension that avoided his arb years at a consistent rate. Apples to oranges.
The Expos were taken over by MLB in 2002, the Pedro trade was in 1997.
in either case, you have a stellar young pitcher that the club cannot afford or is unwilling to pay market value, and therefore has to think about other options via trade.
Do the math. You just replaced Cano with a guy who didn't amaze in A+ and an unnamed MiLB pitcher. Do you make that trade?
I would look at it with interest if the minor league pitcher was an excellent prospect and had a great year in AAA or AA
TheKilo
10-10-2007, 02:10 PM
I would look at it with interest if the minor league pitcher was an excellent prospect and had a great year in AAA or AA
Umm, a MiLB pitcher is not worth Robbie Cano, the man, the kid, the legend.
Would you trade Robbie for a MiLB pitcher who had a great year in AAA or AA? of course not. Why would you expect others to?
He Hate Me
10-10-2007, 04:32 PM
Umm, a MiLB pitcher is not worth Robbie Cano, the man, the kid, the legend.
Would you trade Robbie for a MiLB pitcher who had a great year in AAA or AA? of course not. Why would you expect others to?
shrug, hughes last year probably generated as much interest if not more.
TheKilo
10-10-2007, 04:45 PM
shrug, hughes last year probably generated as much interest if not more.
Who in your farm system has that kind of buzz now?
Let's see how I've done so far...
There are definitely going to be changes. There is no doubt. However, this is going to be the unofficial plan to fix the Yankees going into 2008. So here goes....
1) Replace Joe Torre with Joe Girardi or Tony Larussa. Mattingly is a fan favorite, but both of these guys are better managers. Larussa is as good as it comes with managing a pen, and Girardi is almost as sharp. Joe Torre, while being a player's manager, can't manage a bullpen. To me, in the AL, that's all a manager needs to do. Also, the kind of small ball/situational hitting that is needed but lost on these Yankees may return.
1. Got it. Girardi to the Yankees. Score one for gom.
2) Sign Arod to an extension. True...this is his choice. However, as long as he doesn't opt out, give him what he wants over the long haul. The Yankees can sign him to a 5-7 year extension at $30 million a year while prorating it [by not losing the next three years of Arod and his 20+ million from Texas], and keeping his salary at the same place it is for next year.
2. Got it. Score another one for gom. I'm awesome.
3a) Ask the Twins for Santana's price. Dangle Cabrera and Kennedy. While I doubt that will be all it will take, it may be a start. Cabrera is integral to any deal for Santana, and it may take Alan Horne in addition or Hughes or Chamberlain for him. However, if you can get Santana without giving up Hughes or Chamberlain, I'd have to jump at it. However, a deal for Santana that includes Cabrera, Kennedy, and Alan Horne for Santana might just get it done. [I admit, I'm biased...how does that sound?]
3. Still in process. Call it a success if they pull it off, a wash if he resigns, and a loss if he goes elsewhere.
3b) Trade Giambi. Now, the only way you can trade Giambi is to eat at least half his salary, approximately 11.5 million. Now, as a one year rental, I believe many teams would take Giambi. It's never the short contract, it's the long one that kills teams. Who might take Giambi at 11.5 million for just one year? Many, in my opinion. The Angels would come knocking. So would the Twins probably. I can't see a national league club wanting him to play the field, but the Angels would be a perfect fit for him, giving them Anderson, Vlad, Giambi, and Juan Rivera, going left/right/left/right. Can't hurt. What to get back for Giambi? A player to be named later. A bar of soap. Anything. You can't help but think that Giambi could possibly help them, and as a one year rental, how can he really hurt?
3b. As good an idea as this is, it hasn't been pursued. Call it a failure.
4) As a reward for not opting out for Arod, Boras gets his other client signed, Carlos Pena. Give Pena..hmm...11.5 a year for 3-4 years, which is pretty much his asking price. Basically, you replaced Giambi with Pena. A bit of a risk, considering he hasn't done much except for this year, but hey...we still are the Yankees, and we can eat a bad contract or two.
4. This is what happens when you listen to your brother without checking on Pena's status. A failure of stupidity.
5) Bring back Abreu at a reduced price. Abreu is the kind of player the Yankees should be looking to bring in. He really is a poor man's Paul O'Neil with better offensive numbers and less of a leader and fielder, but overall, a similar player. 17 million is a lot, Abreu could come back at a 7 million discount from his current salary.
5. Even though the money was off, the brought him back. Success.
6) Sign Bonds. An unpopular decision for most, but a statistical monster. As good as Posada is, we can't win with him as our number five hitter. Putting Bonds behind Arod gives the Yankees three amazing OBP players in a row in Abreu, Arod, and Bonds. Sign Bonds for...hmmm...a 1 year deal for 12 million. Now...how can we shave off five million [assuming #5 saves us 7 million]?
6. Don't drop the soap Barry. Failure. I doubt he'll ever play baseball again.
7) With Bonds penciled in at DH, there is no place for Matsui. Who would take Matsui? Many, many teams would, in my opinion. Seattle, cornering the Japanese market? The Giants, having lost Bonds? The Mets? Of course, the whole trade Matsui thing only happens if Cabrera isn't traded.
7. A work in progress, at least I hope. Consider it a failure if Matsui is with the Yankees opening day, and a success if he's gone. Most likely, a failure.
8) Resign Rivera and Posada at similar contracts. Calling that a fiscal wash.
I consider this a success. Rivera is just sweating the Yankees out the way they did it to him. Considering the Yankees got admonished by blowing the reliever market away, Rivera would be a fool to even look elsewhere. No one is giving him 45 million over 4 years, let alone three years.
So that makes me 4-3 with two undecideds [stupid brother].
jacksonianmarch
11-17-2007, 10:10 PM
Trading Matsui does us no good. Remember, the guy was hitting .300 with 20 bombs when he started having knee problems. His knee has been cleaned out and if he comes back healthy, which isnt a lock btw, then he will likely be a .290-.300 hitter with 25+ bombs as per his usual.
Matsui is no longer a good hitter. He has stopped going to the opposite field, and is falling into that Giambi zone of trying to pull everything. He will be atrocious next year. He had one phenomenal month last year....the other five months were poor.
jacksonianmarch
11-18-2007, 03:29 PM
Man. Well, I think you are accustomed to being embarassed, so here goes...
One good month?
May- .301BA .871OPS
July- .345BA 1.146OPS
August- .333BA .843OPS
April he was out with the hammy and September he was hurt with the knee. The only month that he was healthy and sucked was June (.252BA .707OPS)
In terms of his hitting chart..
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?c_id=nyy&playerID=425686&statType=1
If you notice, his singles and doubles were spread out almost totally evenly. His HR were all pulled. That could be due to him having a weak lower half or totally due to park effect (I only looked at Yankee stadium). Regardless, he goes the other way a lot more than Giambi does.
TheKilo
11-18-2007, 04:13 PM
Regardless, he goes the other way a lot more than Giambi does.
I have the feeling lots of Yankees do.
lulz
Man. Well, I think you are accustomed to being embarassed, so here goes...
One good month?
May- .301BA .871OPS
July- .345BA 1.146OPS
August- .333BA .843OPS
April he was out with the hammy and September he was hurt with the knee. The only month that he was healthy and sucked was June (.252BA .707OPS)
In terms of his hitting chart..
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?c_id=nyy&playerID=425686&statType=1
If you notice, his singles and doubles were spread out almost totally evenly. His HR were all pulled. That could be due to him having a weak lower half or totally due to park effect (I only looked at Yankee stadium). Regardless, he goes the other way a lot more than Giambi does.
The time to trade him is now Jacko. His value will decrease as his production decreases.
April: .695 OPS
June: .707 OPS
Sept: .689 OPS
He had the softest 100 RBI season in recent memory. I say trade him now while he still has value. His body is starting to break down, and he is a below average fielder.
Check out his groundouts Jacko. He didn't have a groundout to third base on the dirt ALL SEASON. Not even one. The only ground outs he had to third were nubbers by the mound. You know how many opposite field homeruns he had, and when I say opposite field, I'll count 1 inch to the left of dead center? If you said ZERO, you win a prize!
Jacko, you are even less objective than ORS about your team.
He will have a serious decline next year IMO. I never liked his stance as a hitter, and now we will see a Giambi redux, a serious drop in batting average with the same power. Damon is a better player than Matsui at this point in their careers. Trading Matsui will probably net you some value from another team.
Mr Crunchy
11-19-2007, 09:25 AM
the minds on this thread should be examined proffesionally,mine included but ive been certifiably nuts since the 70s and the drs confirm this,whats your excuse?
the yanks have some speed,arod jetsey damon abreau cano cabrerra,they all run.
oroblem they have is they run when theyre down late,not to manufacture runs
if you have a staff that sucks as bad as nys does then manufacturing runs isnt prudent
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