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Thread: The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

  1. #1411
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Scott was brought in to face the #9 hitter and then 2 lefty hitters. Cora said 'these are the situations he's here for' or similar words. Scott did a lousy job, obviously. Maybe you could chalk it up as a managerial mistake, but there was some reasoning behind it.
    There was some reasoning to it, of course.

    That said, this is one time in which I definitely think Cora made the wrong decision. Kelly is the 8th inning guy in high leverage situations. He should have gotten the call, IMO.

    I would like to emphasize that even though I think Cora made the wrong decision, I am not blaming the loss on Cora. Cora did not cost the team this game.

  2. #1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxnCycles View Post
    After seeing the box score this morning, I'm just glad I missed the eight inning.
    LOL

    One of the downsides of being off for the summer (if there are any downsides) is that I was able to stay up and suffer through that misery.

  3. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Fascinating discussion about Scott and Cora. My take on the game was that the hitting stunk, pure and simple, so I wasn't so sure we were going to score any more runs.

    And about the infamous 8th. Scott left the game with the score tied, 1 man out, runners on 1st and 2d, and Kelly coming to the mound, where he has been very good this year when the game is on the line and he inherits baserunners.

    Does anyone besides me remember the 6th inning when the first two batters got on against Christ Sale, after which he got a ground out and then gave up a 2 run double? Scott and Kelly--at least for those first two runs scored by the Twins in the 8th--did no worse than the great, indomitable Chris Sale did in the 6th inning.

    I'm sorry, but in my view last night is entirely on the players and not Alex Cora. Chris Sale gave up a 1 run lead in the 6th in a moment of weakness. The lineup stunk all night long. And not one but two relievers--one of whom, Kelly, has closed a few times and has been great coming in with runners on base--gave up 2 runs which were all the Twins needed.
    Cora is not to be blamed for the loss. With that, I agree. However, that does not mean that he didn't make a poor decision in bringing Scott into that situation.

  4. #1414
    #SurvivingFarrell Station 13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    max, I disagree. If Cora was willing to go to his setup man in the 8th, doing so at the beginning of the inning is prudent. He tried to sneak the lefty in to lengthen his pen in case they went to extras and he got burned
    Especially with the top of the order due up against Rodney. Cora screw the pooch once again.

  5. #1415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    LOL

    One of the downsides of being off for the summer (if there are any downsides) is that I was able to stay up and suffer through that misery.
    A teacher, huh? Good for you. Great profession. I did some myself, but never for more than 3 years in a row and never for the same subject as the one before.

    I could have stayed up for the 8th, but had a premonition when Sale gave up 2 runs in the 6th. I think Sale is our best, but in my judgment he should have been tougher in the 6th.

  6. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Station 13 View Post
    Especially with the top of the order due up against Rodney. Cora screw the pooch once again.
    Sure he did. it's never the players, and we can safely ignore the 2 for 13 with RISP, the 10 K's, Kelly giving up the extra base hits, Sale weakening in the 6th and giving up 2 runs, etc.

    But my absolute favorite is the idea that good managers always put players in positions where they can succeed. Poor Scott having to pitch for a manager who doesn't have his best interests at heart. He deserves being sent out with at least an 8 run lead. For that matter, poor Kelly for having to go out to the mound with 2 on and just 1 out and the game tied. And why wasn't Hembree or someone brought in in the 6th when there were also 2 on with 1 out and Sale was clearly struggling? And what about the terrible lineup with the dregs of humanity in the bottom third?

  7. #1417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Sure he did. it's never the players, and we can safely ignore the 2 for 13 with RISP, the 10 K's, Kelly giving up the extra base hits, Sale weakening in the 6th and giving up 2 runs, etc.

    But my absolute favorite is the idea that good managers always put players in positions where they can succeed. Poor Scott having to pitch for a manager who doesn't have his best interests at heart. He deserves being sent out with at least an 8 run lead. For that matter, poor Kelly for having to go out to the mound with 2 on and just 1 out and the game tied. And why wasn't Hembree or someone brought in in the 6th when there were also 2 on with 1 out and Sale was clearly struggling? And what about the terrible lineup with the dregs of humanity in the bottom third?
    is it ever the manager?
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  8. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Fascinating discussion about Scott and Cora. My take on the game was that the hitting stunk, pure and simple, so I wasn't so sure we were going to score any more runs.

    And about the infamous 8th. Scott left the game with the score tied, 1 man out, runners on 1st and 2d, and Kelly coming to the mound, where he has been very good this year when the game is on the line and he inherits baserunners.

    Does anyone besides me remember the 6th inning when the first two batters got on against Christ Sale, after which he got a ground out and then gave up a 2 run double? Scott and Kelly--at least for those first two runs scored by the Twins in the 8th--did no worse than the great, indomitable Chris Sale did in the 6th inning.

    I'm sorry, but in my view last night is entirely on the players and not Alex Cora. Chris Sale gave up a 1 run lead in the 6th in a moment of weakness. The lineup stunk all night long. And not one but two relievers--one of whom, Kelly, has closed a few times and has been great coming in with runners on base--gave up 2 runs which were all the Twins needed.
    Nope, Sorry. One can always blame the offense for not scoring enough runs but this one's on Cora. As you said, "Scott left the game with the score tied, 1 man out, runners on 1st and 2d". The thing you left out is that situation was one of Scott's own making by walking those two hitters. It's hard for me to blame Scott because he never should have been put in that position. This one's on Cora.
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  9. #1419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    A teacher, huh? Good for you. Great profession. I did some myself, but never for more than 3 years in a row and never for the same subject as the one before.

    I could have stayed up for the 8th, but had a premonition when Sale gave up 2 runs in the 6th. I think Sale is our best, but in my judgment he should have been tougher in the 6th.
    I gave up after the 2nd walk in the 8th. I could see the writing on the wall and I didn't like what I was seeing. Here's the news flash and it ain't rocket science. As a reliever you SIMPLY DO NOT walk the first two batters you see.

    I do get the rationale for not blaming Cora though. As the saying goes, if it's everyone's fault it's no one's fault.
    It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
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  10. #1420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Sure he did. it's never the players, and we can safely ignore the 2 for 13 with RISP, the 10 K's, Kelly giving up the extra base hits, Sale weakening in the 6th and giving up 2 runs, etc.

    But my absolute favorite is the idea that good managers always put players in positions where they can succeed. Poor Scott having to pitch for a manager who doesn't have his best interests at heart. He deserves being sent out with at least an 8 run lead. For that matter, poor Kelly for having to go out to the mound with 2 on and just 1 out and the game tied. And why wasn't Hembree or someone brought in in the 6th when there were also 2 on with 1 out and Sale was clearly struggling? And what about the terrible lineup with the dregs of humanity in the bottom third?
    So the best thing for a team trying to win is to run out a LOOGY who just been on the roster that day in a tie game in the 8th on the road? Who proceeded to put on two base runners, their 9th hitter and Mauer. The bullpen was well rested, having enjoyed Sunday blowout win and off day on Monday.

    Hitters won't always have a good night. But the game was tie. Cora have to use his best to win. That's not a time to run out Robby Scott.

  11. #1421
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    It was idiocy putting Scott in a high leverage situation like that in his first game of the year in the bigs when the 8th inning guy was available to start the inning. He got cute, hopping not to have to use Kelly, and he got burned twice. He lost the game and he burned Kelly anyway.

    Edit: It will be obvious that it was a mistake, because Core will not use Scott or any other bullpen pig in a 1 run game in the 8th inning when the high leverage guys are available.
    Last edited by a700hitter; 06-20-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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  12. #1422
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    Quote Originally Posted by S5Dewey View Post
    Nope, Sorry. One can always blame the offense for not scoring enough runs but this one's on Cora. As you said, "Scott left the game with the score tied, 1 man out, runners on 1st and 2d". The thing you left out is that situation was one of Scott's own making by walking those two hitters. It's hard for me to blame Scott because he never should have been put in that position. This one's on Cora.
    I know what Scott did. He did exactly the same thing Sale did in the 6th inning--put the first two guys on before getting an out. I believe both of them, Scott and Sale, got an HBP in the process of putting two men on base. Then Sale did exactly what Kelly did and gave up a double to bring in those two runs and put the Twins up, 2-1.

    Also, to me there's a world of difference between a tie game and a 1 run lead for the good guys. In the latter, I'm for pulling out all the stops to preserve the lead and get the win. With a tie game, you are gambling that you will score again.
    Last edited by Maxbialystock; 06-20-2018 at 01:30 PM.

  13. #1423
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    Well, there's no hind-sight for some of us, because we called it before any walk was given (on the game forum). No manager would bring in the newly arrived Scott in this context. None. Esp right after a day off (i mean how much rest does this effing team need?) and just after tying the game at 2-2 in the top of the 8th. It's time for the your shut down guy, who 85% of the time (Kelly) will come through. Scott needs to come in for the first time in a blowout or in the 5-6th innings.

  14. #1424
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    It's ready to rip Cora for bringing in Scott, but it's not like we know who else was available...

  15. #1425
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    It's ready to rip Cora for bringing in Scott, but it's not like we know who else was available...
    it was a day off on Monday. every arm was available.
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