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Thread: The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

  1. #1231
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    BT W I am not the one saying that. It’s not every pitcher either
    I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

    I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…

  2. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

    I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…
    Good point, and as Bell alluded to, ever-increasing multi-inning roles of relievers have increased their value, while also prompting a rule-adjustment need for assigning victories to pitchers.

    I would also add, however, that workhorse starters (currently defined as "going five" or "two times through the order", whichever comes first) provide another asset that can't be overlooked or quantified: eating innings, which gives some of the almost-daily bullpen guys a day of R & R -- recovery and reset. Managers, coaches and players talk about it all the time; in that sense, a pitcher who starts 30 games can positively impact around 45 games... if half his starts "go long," and refreshed relievers are better the next game after a day off.

  3. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    Good point, and as Bell alluded to, ever-increasing multi-inning roles of relievers have increased their value, while also prompting a rule-adjustment need for assigning victories to pitchers.

    I would also add, however, that workhorse starters (currently defined as "going five" or "two times through the order", whichever comes first) provide another asset that can't be overlooked or quantified: eating innings, which gives some of the almost-daily bullpen guys a day of R & R -- recovery and reset. Managers, coaches and players talk about it all the time; in that sense, a pitcher who starts 30 games can positively impact around 45 games... if half his starts "go long," and refreshed relievers are better the next game after a day off.

    Absolutely true. Eating innings is essential. Of course, we really don’t know if Houck or Whitlock are capable of eating very many. They might be Diet Relievers…

  4. #1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

    I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…
    Also, maybe Houck and Whitlock can each give us 90-125 IP, next year.
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  5. #1235
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    Best numbers 3rd time through.

    .673 Perez
    .780 Eovaldi
    .819 Sale (26 PA)
    .924 Richards
    1.011 Pivetta
    1.016 ERod
    1.489 Houck (18 PA)

    2020 (10+ PAs)
    .571 Perez
    1.200 Eovaldi
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  6. #1236
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Also, maybe Houck and Whitlock can each give us 90-125 IP, next year.
    Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?

    No. If I knew it based on something (history?) then I might use him as a starter because it’s usually easier to replace relievers than it is to replace starters.

    But right now my opinion is Houck and Whitlock work will in the bullpen. It’s not broken. Why fix it? Getting new starters might put question marks on the rotation, but moving Houck and/or Whitlock there and replacing both creates more question marks.

  8. #1238
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I agree, and to some extent, starters are more known commodities.

    We lost Ottavino, so I think keeping Houck & Whitlock in the pen makes a lot of sense.
    Where did you read that we lost Ottavino? I keep track of https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-analysis and it's not there.

  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?
    No.

    I’m about 60-40 on Whitlock staying in the pen and 85-15 on Houck.

    Of course, if we only add one meh sp’er then those numbers will move.
    Last edited by moonslav59; 11-26-2021 at 01:01 PM.
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  10. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenmeister View Post
    Where did you read that we lost Ottavino? I keep track of https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-analysis and it's not there.
    He’s a FA, so I count him as off the roster, unless we replace him with him. Lol!
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  11. #1241
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    No. If I knew it based on something (history?) then I might use him as a starter because it’s usually easier to replace relievers than it is to replace starters.

    But right now my opinion is Houck and Whitlock work will in the bullpen. It’s not broken. Why fix it? Getting new starters might put question marks on the rotation, but moving Houck and/or Whitlock there and replacing both creates more question marks.
    The way pens are changing, having two guys that can go 2-3 innings every 2-4 days gives us a huge advantage over many teams. Maybe both can give us many more innings, next year from the pen.
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  12. #1242
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    We're seeing changes in how pitchers are used, though. Starters throwing fewer innings and relievers more. So that triple innings thing is going down.

    Whitlock pitched 73.1 innings in 2021.

    Top 3 starters by IP

    Eovaldi 182.1 = 2.49 times as many
    E-Rod 157.2 = 2.15
    Pivetta 155.0 = 2.11
    Starters pitch more innings, but relievers appear in , and effect the outcome of , many more games. And for late relievers , it is usually in close games. The trend seems to be bigger staffs , more rest days and quicker hooks for starters . And more reliance on the bullpen.
    Old school is good school.

  13. #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    No.

    I’m about 60-40 on Whitlock staying in the pen and 85-15 on Houck.

    Of course, if we only add one meh sp’er then those numbers will move.
    Oh I am 100% behind keeping him in the bullpen. But it’s not going to happen…

  14. #1244
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Oh I am 100% behind keeping him in the bullpen. But it’s not going to happen…
    If we traded for Montas, I’d be 100%.

    As our roster is right now, we’d have to move one to the rotation to have any chance at a ring.
    Last edited by moonslav59; 11-26-2021 at 04:00 PM.
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  15. #1245
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    Rangers to sign Semien to $175M/7. That's $25M x 7. They also signed Kole Calhoun.

    Marlins sign Avisail Garcia to $53M/4. That's over $13M x 4.

    Byron Buxton agrees to extension for $100M/7.

    Kluber signs for $8M but can make over $4M in bonuses based on games started.

    Am I supposed to bash Bloom for not paying more on any of these FAs?

    Not!



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