2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[notin]

Well you have already seen two pretty good answers so I won't bore you by saying the same thing just to make it three. As an aside though, I have never for one second felt that the overall strategy has been to go all in and then expect some ridiculous dropoff in a couple of years.

They said different things...

[notin]

Uh, wut?

He's done his best to fill that pen with decent arms every year since he's been here. Starters are pretty much set. Offense is pretty much set. What position has he ignored?

Also, do you remember what Detroit looked like BEFORE Dombrowski?

Well they did win 155 games in the two years before he got there and then 98 in his first two seasons as GM...

[notin]

This is correct, and Dombrowski will not be to blame if we lose due to our players underperforming this year.

I will blame him of this team is hit by a rash of pitching injuries and the Sox miss the playoffs because key games down the stretch were started by some AAAA pitcher who didn't belong in the majors. ..

[notin]

All three have similar odds of doing well as Dickey or Lackey or ...

Based on what?

Why would or be such a bad idea to let them earn their shot over Lackey or Dickey or ....?

[notin]

We wait until we know Johnson, Velazquez, Elias, and Beeks can't cut it, and then we go out and get a good pitcher, if needed, at a pro-rated contract cost.

You can't count on Doug Fister bring available every summer. But you can count on Steve Ontiveros being available. ..

[moonslav59]

Based on what?

Why would or be such a bad idea to let them earn their shot over Lackey or Dickey or ....?

I'd say they are close enough to even with those two old fogies, but to me, it's more about saving luxury tax money.

I'm fine with signing Lackey or Dickey to a minor league only deal, but they will want incentives or bonuses that could bring us too close to the major tax limit and disallow any mid season move we might need badly.

We can sign two $1M guys now or trade for a $6M guy on July 31st, and both plans cost us $2M. I'll wait it out for the $6M guy and hope an in house guys rises to the occasion.

How long are we going to keep never knowing about Johnson and Elias? Guys like Velazquez would never get a chance.

Fister was a lightening strike. Most of those type signings never work out.

Same as giving guys like Johnson, Elias and Velazquez a final chance. At least we'll know, if we should keep them around any longer.

[moonslav59]

You can't count on Doug Fister bring available every summer. But you can count on Steve Ontiveros being available. ..

They both looked the same in March of those seasons.

[notin]

They both looked the same in March of those seasons.

But who was better in September?

[notin]

I'd say they are close enough to even with those two old fogies, but to me, it's more about saving luxury tax money

I'm fine with signing Lackey or Dickey to a minor league only deal, but they will want incentives or bonuses that could bring us too close to the major tax limit and disallow any mid season move we might need badly.

We can sign two $1M guys now or trade for a $6M guy on July 31st, and both plans cost us $2M. I'll wait it out for the $6M guy and hope an in house guys rises to the occasion.

How long are we going to keep never knowing about Johnson and Elias? Guys like Velazquez would never get a chance.

Fister was a lightening strike. Most of those type signings never work out.

Same as giving guys like Johnson, Elias and Velazquez a final chance. At least we'll know, if we should keep them around any longer.

for

Some guys will want incentives. Some will want out dates. And for some players, that is a reason not to sign them. But some won't. Our some incentives are worth putting in the contract.

It's not about taking chances away from the players you mentioned (by the way, Velasquez was once signed to the exact type of minor league deal I am pushing for here.)

It's alt having more depth and more options. Can you guarantee Johnson or Velasquez will be healthy when we need them?

[moonslav59]

But who was better in September?

So, which one from Lackey or Dickey or Johnson/Velazquez/Elias/Bekks ("the field") will look better in October?

I'll go with that one. When you figure out which one it is, let me know.

I'll gamble on "the field", save the money for a summer acquisition, and pray our starter injuries are kept to a minimum.

[moonslav59]

for

Some guys will want incentives. Some will want out dates. And for some players, that is a reason not to sign them. But some won't. Our some incentives are worth putting in the contract.

It's not about taking chances away from the players you mentioned (by the way, Velasquez was once signed to the exact type of minor league deal I am pushing for here.)

It's alt having more depth and more options. Can you guarantee Johnson or Velasquez will be healthy when we need them?

No, but we have Elias and Beeks as well. Can you guarantee Lackey or Dickey are not toast?

I'm not against signing 5 guys like Dickey or Lackey to minor league deals, but I want to keep the $4M for a "real pitcher" in July, if needed.

[jacksonianmarch]

You can't count on Doug Fister bring available every summer. But you can count on Steve Ontiveros being available. ..

Fister was in a unique situation. I anticipate that any offer of significance puts the sox over that final hurdle. My anticipation is the staff of Sale, Price, Pom, Porcello, ERod, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez etc will end up being what you roll with barring a major injury (like Price, Sale or Pom). Anything of significance will push the sox over that final hurdle which isn't what they want

[moonslav59]

Fister was in a unique situation. I anticipate that any offer of significance puts the sox over that final hurdle. My anticipation is the staff of Sale, Price, Pom, Porcello, ERod, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez etc will end up being what you roll with barring a major injury (like Price, Sale or Pom). Anything of significance will push the sox over that final hurdle which isn't what they want

I figure us for having about $4M, but it could be as high as $6M. If we trade or DFA Holt, that's another $2M. We could part ways with Leon (against my wishes). Even if we end up with $5-6M to spend, we can pick up a pretty high-priced rental in July at a pro-rated cost. An $18M pitcher would only cost about $6M if acquired on July 31st. That's a chance at a very good pitcher while us staying below the max penalty limit.

If we could get the the number to $8M, we could trade for 2 guys making $12M each (prorated to two times $4M).

There's ways to get stronger for the playoffs without blowing all our budget space with a march panic plan.

Sure, sign some vets to minor league deals that don't add hardly anything over the guy we let go to make room for them. Better yet, sign them to a non-40 man roster slot with an opt out clause by a certain date. That's fine. Just don't cut into the $4M we have now.

[Bellhorn04]

Well they did win 155 games in the two years before he got there and then 98 in his first two seasons as GM...

145 in the two years before he got there, to be exact. But your point stands that they were horrible in his first two years.

OTOH Theo's Cubs were pretty horrible in his first two years too, winning 127 games compared to 146 the previous two years. Doesn't really mean much, does it?

The Tigers hadn't made the playoffs since 1987 when Dombrowski took over, I think that's a little more to the point.

[Bellhorn04]

You can't count on Doug Fister bring available every summer. But you can count on Steve Ontiveros being available. ..

OK, you finally made me look up Ontiveros's game log for 2000. He had one horrific start, then 2 good relief appearances.

Fister, it must be pointed out, was pretty awful himself at times. Overall he was mediocre at best.