Not a popular stance .Extend JBJ 3 years 21 million

[moonslav59]

Barring a dramatic turn around over the next three weeks , I think a number of players , including JBJ , are in jeopardy of being moved in a thorough house cleaning .

I agree. We may hold onto Price and Eovaldi, in hopes they show health and progress, then trade them. Sale, maybe the same.

We could even trade JD, and if we have to pay part of his salary, it won't be as much as the 3 pitchers would be.

We keep Devers, Bogey, beni, vaz & ERod. All others could be offered, if the rebuild will be full.

[jacksonianmarch]

Slav, I think you deal ERod. I am almost certain that if Betts goes, ERod is right behind him. Second arb is usually pricey albeit not as bad as the final year and arb takes into account 2 years of production. His last 2 years have been pretty solid. He is gonna get paid. And if the sox are clearing out, there is no point in holding onto him during two down seasons. The Yanks and Rays aint going anywhere the next 2 seasons, so you might as well get a haul for him and jumpstart the talent acquisition phase of the rebuild

[notin]

I agree. We may hold onto Price and Eovaldi, in hopes they show health and progress, then trade them. Sale, maybe the same.

We could even trade JD, and if we have to pay part of his salary, it won't be as much as the 3 pitchers would be.

We keep Devers, Bogey, beni, vaz & ERod. All others could be offered, if the rebuild will be full.

While fire sale is certainly a possibility, it's not something the Red Sox do very often. Other than the Great Reset Button Trade of 2012.

If the Sox try it, the hard part will be finding takers. I think they move the tradable players like Barnes (who should have some market), possibly Workman (I hope not, but he is establishing some value) and maybe try to move Bradley, but if all else fails they non-tender JBJ...

[jacksonianmarch]

Do the sox package a player of desire and a player with a bad contract and try to gain financial freedom?

[notin]

Do the sox package a player of desire and a player with a bad contract and try to gain financial freedom?

Has that ever worked out for the team unloading the bad deal? That's one of those trades you always want to be on the other side of...

[Slasher9]

If this was actually true, you would know the Sox cannot afford him and have any hope of reset unless they deal Mookie.

And certainly makes your scenario of offering him $5mill or $6mill utility infielder money look even sillier...

oh, we are dealing Mookie to reset and get some farm.
oh, and my UI $$ for JBj fell under the "if's" scenario. you know...like wishing that elite CF defense players are everywhere.

[harmony]

Has that ever worked out for the team unloading the bad deal? That's one of those trades you always want to be on the other side of...

The Seattle Mariners don't regret packaging All Star closer Edwin Diaz with the burdensome contract of Robinson Cano.

[moonslav59]

Slav, I think you deal ERod. I am almost certain that if Betts goes, ERod is right behind him. Second arb is usually pricey albeit not as bad as the final year and arb takes into account 2 years of production. His last 2 years have been pretty solid. He is gonna get paid. And if the sox are clearing out, there is no point in holding onto him during two down seasons. The Yanks and Rays aint going anywhere the next 2 seasons, so you might as well get a haul for him and jumpstart the talent acquisition phase of the rebuild

If the rebuild is a 3 or more year plan, yes. I'm not sure Henry will allow 3 years, unless he severely cuts the budget by having a fire sale.

[moonslav59]

Has that ever worked out for the team unloading the bad deal? That's one of those trades you always want to be on the other side of...

We packaged AGon with CC and Beckett and won a ring with the money saved (Victorino & Napoli signings).

[moonslav59]

While fire sale is certainly a possibility, it's not something the Red Sox do very often. Other than the Great Reset Button Trade of 2012.

If the Sox try it, the hard part will be finding takers. I think they move the tradable players like Barnes (who should have some market), possibly Workman (I hope not, but he is establishing some value) and maybe try to move Bradley, but if all else fails they non-tender JBJ...

The Dodger dump trade was the second time. 2 times in 10 years is not a fluke.

[moonslav59]

oh, we are dealing Mookie to reset and get some farm.
oh, and my UI $$ for JBj fell under the "if's" scenario. you know...like wishing that elite CF defense players are everywhere.

Strawman incarnate.

[notin]

We packaged AGon with CC and Beckett and won a ring with the money saved (Victorino & Napoli signings).

I wuld count AGon as one of those big contracts we shed.

The Sox really don't have an Edwin Diaz style piece to pair up with David Price in a deal...

[moonslav59]

I wuld count AGon as one of those big contracts we shed.

The Sox really don't have an Edwin Diaz style piece to pair up with David Price in a deal...

Yes, but I think we wanted to keep AGon, despite his role in "chicken gate".

We could trade Betts and Price to the Dodgers or Mets for...

[notin]

my issue is with you and moon stating that elite defense in CF is found everywhere and easy to replace. i asked both of you for names and none of them passed the smell test. sure there are a lot of "ifs" you guys are proposoing...if this contract isn't picked up....if we can trade a bag of baseballs for him....if team xyz releases him....since we are "iffing"....how about if JBj is only offered $5MM in arb....or how about if we dont offer arb and simply sign JBj for $6MM.....but maybe we can pry the final 3 years of team control of broxton from seattle and we can watch how that sub .500 ops and 0 dWAR (in 100 games) impresses all the JBj haters.

Actually no one said that.

I said if the Sox want to reset, they would have to non-tender JBJ and the best course of action would be to get a good defensive CF. And I prefer that to moving Benintendi to CF. and taking a shot at some Nick Williams minimum wage offensive crapshoot in LF.

Like it or not, or understand the arbitration process or not, JBJ i going to get paid this offseason. He makes $8.8mill and is absolutel;y 100% goingto get more. I think in the $10-12mill range, but that is just an educated guess.

Now, per sportrac, the Sox have about $56mill to spend before hitting the tax limits. Out of that $56mill, they have to pay all their arbitration cases (Betts, Benintendi, Barnes, Bradley, Workman, Wright, Hembree, Leon, etc.) plus fill the roster with whatever else they need.

If they just keep Betts, Benintendi, Barnes and Workman, that could easily be $40mill +. That leaves $16mill for Bradley, Wright (definite non-tender), Leon (ditto), Hembree (probably).

So they could maybe sign Bradley if my estimates are right, but that leaves maybe $4mill for another starter, any needed bullpen help, probably a 1b or 2b, etc. And anyone they want to get mid-season. I don't think any GM wants to be THAT hamstrung.

And THAT is if the $40mill figure is right. It's possible Betts and Benintendi alone take that much. It's simply too tight of a budget, assuming they reset.

So good, and much cheaper CF like Lagares, or Broxton, or Hamilton does make sense. I do find it odd you think none of them are any good. But whatever. They will meet what could be more important criteria - being significantly cheaper.

Of course, if the Sox actually do deal Betts, the budget is much, much more flexible...

[notin]

Actually no one said that.

I said if the Sox want to reset, they would have to non-tender JBJ and the best course of action would be to get a good defensive CF. And I prefer that to moving Benintendi to CF. and taking a shot at some Nick Williams minimum wage offensive crapshoot in LF.

Like it or not, or understand the arbitration process or not, JBJ i going to get paid this offseason. He makes $8.8mill and is absolutel;y 100% goingto get more. I think in the $10-12mill range, but that is just an educated guess.

Now, per sportrac, the Sox have about $56mill to spend before hitting the tax limits. Out of that $56mill, they have to pay all their arbitration cases (Betts, Benintendi, Barnes, Bradley, Workman, Wright, Hembree, Leon, etc.) plus fill the roster with whatever else they need.

If they just keep Betts, Benintendi, Barnes and Workman, that could easily be $40mill +. That leaves $16mill for Bradley, Wright (definite non-tender), Leon (ditto), Hembree (probably).

So they could maybe sign Bradley if my estimates are right, but that leaves maybe $4mill for another starter, any needed bullpen help, probably a 1b or 2b, etc. And anyone they want to get mid-season. I don't think any GM wants to be THAT hamstrung.

And THAT is if the $40mill figure is right. It's possible Betts and Benintendi alone take that much. It's simply too tight of a budget, assuming they reset.

So good, and much cheaper CF like Lagares, or Broxton, or Hamilton does make sense. I do find it odd you think none of them are any good. But whatever. They will meet what could be more important criteria - being significantly cheaper.

Of course, if the Sox actually do deal Betts, the budget is much, much more flexible...

I left ERod out of my arbitration players.