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Thread: The Pen

  1. #1486
    Legend S5Dewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post

    And in case you haven’t noticed, the Red Sox are actually trying to give Pedroia as many chances as possible. But are you saying he should be released as well?

    Maybe you think it’s also time to cut bait with Sale, too...
    Congratulations on merging two complete overreactions into one post, both of which are so ridiculous that I'm not going to glorify them with a response.

    I don't dislike Thornburg, I've never even met the guy, but since I've seen very little (as in NO) improvement in his results since he came back, I feel justified in asking how long the FO is going to allow him to occupy a roster spot. As you pointed out, this is the kind of thing that has ended the careers of more than one player.

    What is it they say about insanity, that it's doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
    It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
    -Vin Scully

  2. #1487
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Thornburg has had just 2 clean appearances all year. Just because he used to have more talent than other guys doesn't mean it's still there.

    Call up Mejia.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  3. #1488
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    He has improved. His fastball is up about 1mph from last year.
    His best season was 2016. His velo is still down overall from then. He might have better stuff than last year, but it's not near what it once was.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  4. #1489
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Thornburg has had just 2 clean appearances all year. Just because he used to have more talent than other guys doesn't mean it's still there.

    Call up Mejia.
    I’m all for calling up Mejia. But DFAing Thornburg while keeping Josh Smith would be stupid.

    There is enough room in the Sox pen for both...

  5. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by S5Dewey View Post
    Congratulations on merging two complete overreactions into one post, both of which are so ridiculous that I'm not going to glorify them with a response.

    I don't dislike Thornburg, I've never even met the guy, but since I've seen very little (as in NO) improvement in his results since he came back, I feel justified in asking how long the FO is going to allow him to occupy a roster spot. As you pointed out, this is the kind of thing that has ended the careers of more than one player.

    What is it they say about insanity, that it's doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
    You need to work on your argument skills if you think you can merge two situations into one and then later call them separate issues. Try making two different posts, for example.

    The bottom line is, Thornburg is actually showing signs of returning to the pitcher he once was. Cutting bait now would be reactionary...

  6. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    His best season was 2016. His velo is still down overall from then. He might have better stuff than last year, but it's not near what it once was.

    It’s down from 94.1 to 93.8. If that drop is too much, Price should have been released 3 years ago...

  7. #1492
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I’m all for calling up Mejia. But DFAing Thornburg while keeping Josh Smith would be stupid.

    There is enough room in the Sox pen for both...
    If they are going to treat Thornburg like a rule V guy and just bury him in the pen with little chance of seeing action except in blowouts, I'm fine with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  8. #1493
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    It’s down from 94.1 to 93.8. If that drop is too much, Price should have been released 3 years ago...
    I was looking at Fangraphs. They have his FB speed from 2016 as 95.1 and this year at 94.2. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.asp...688&position=P

    If he was still pitching well with the velo drop, it wouldn't be an issue. The bigger issue is that he's a guy with not a huge track record of success. He had 2 good years in MIL, that's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  9. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    If they are going to treat Thornburg like a rule V guy and just bury him in the pen with little chance of seeing action except in blowouts, I'm fine with it.

    That’s probably the short term plan.

    At least Thornburg is showing signs of returning to the pitcher DD acquired. Players without the injury/recovery excuse like Colten Brewe should be of bigger concern. Maybe we’re seeing why SD refused to add him to their 40 man roster. (And Esteban Quiroz has an .860 OPS in AAA right now. Granted, that’s a PCL OPS, so dial it back a bit.)...

  10. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I was looking at Fangraphs. They have his FB speed from 2016 as 95.1 and this year at 94.2. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.asp...688&position=P

    If he was still pitching well with the velo drop, it wouldn't be an issue. The bigger issue is that he's a guy with not a huge track record of success. He had 2 good years in MIL, that's it.

    That’s 4 seam only. My numbers included 2 seamers, so they’re a bit lower but more encompassing. Look 2 sections above. In Pitch Type.

    Both sections agree his velocity is returning.

    Bear in mind his career as a reliever is short as well. He came up as a starter...

  11. #1496
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    That’s probably the short term plan.

    At least Thornburg is showing signs of returning to the pitcher DD acquired. Players without the injury/recovery excuse like Colten Brewe should be of bigger concern. Maybe we’re seeing why SD refused to add him to their 40 man roster. (And Esteban Quiroz has an .860 OPS in AAA right now. Granted, that’s a PCL OPS, so dial it back a bit.)...
    I can't worry about losing guys like Quiroz. More often than not, they are easily replaceable. I had high hopes for him, but I still have higher hopes for Marco Hernandez who is finally healthy and playing ball again.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  12. #1497
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    That’s 4 seam only. My numbers included 2 seamers, so they’re a bit lower but more encompassing. Look 2 sections above. In Pitch Type.

    Both sections agree his velocity is returning.

    Bear in mind his career as a reliever is short as well. He came up as a starter...
    Then maybe he's changing his mix with 2 seamers and 4 seamers? 2 and 4 seamers should definitely be tracked differently as they are really different pitches.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  13. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Then maybe he's changing his mix with 2 seamers and 4 seamers? 2 and 4 seamers should definitely be tracked differently as they are really different pitches.

    Agreed. But those Fangraphs folks are really good at providing data. I can’t complain about what they do...

  14. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I can't worry about losing guys like Quiroz. More often than not, they are easily replaceable. I had high hopes for him, but I still have higher hopes for Marco Hernandez who is finally healthy and playing ball again.

    I’ve given up on him. Last I checked, his average exit velocity was among the lowest in LB, behind many pitchers.

    If he can come back, it is a huge bonus. But I’m not even sure what his ceiling was...

  15. #1500
    Legend S5Dewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    You need to work on your argument skills if you think you can merge two situations into one and then later call them separate issues. Try making two different posts, for example.

    The bottom line is, Thornburg is actually showing signs of returning to the pitcher he once was. Cutting bait now would be reactionary...
    This is why it's almost impossible to have a rational discussion with you: Your first impulse is to try to discredit the person you're having the discussion with rather than talk about the issue at hand.

    in the month of March Thornburg's ERA was 9.00 ans his WHIP was 1.50.
    In the month of April his ERA was 7.45 and his WHIP was 1.45.
    This month he's had one appearance and gave up 3 hits and 2 runs.

    Please tell me how that's returning to the pitcher he once was.
    It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
    -Vin Scully

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