More from Obama's Past -1995 Interview

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I think his quote reveals that he will not stand with his country in time of war, but we should have already known that from the fact that he was the only Senator not to wear an American flag pin after 9/11.

Ignorance.

You're going to determine a man's patriotism, respect, and loyalty to the Country by his attire? I'm hoping that it's ignorance, because if it's not ignorance on your part, then it's downright stupidity.

Your posts are no more relevant and equally as despicable as the warrantless character attacks being launched by the McCain campaign. You're the boxer getting pounded into submission so he abandons strategy and begins throwing wild punches with no knowledge of direction in hopes of landing something. It's not going to work...for you or McCain.

[See Red]

It's out-of-context... you're missing the important part...

The title of Reverend Wright's sermon that morning was "The Audacity of Hope." He began with a passage from the Book of Samuel—the story of Hannah, who, barren and taunted by her rivals, had wept and shaken in prayer before her God. The story reminded him, he said, of a sermon a fellow pastor had preached at a conference some years before, in which the pastor described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting title Hope….

"It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks' greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere…That's the world! On which hope sits!"

It's the words of Barack Obama recapping the words of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright recapping the words of another preacher whom he'd heard years prior to that.

The first flat-out inaccurate quote is the second one: "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."

You will not find that quote in any book written by Obama. That quote is taken from an article from the American Conservative about Obama, and they are not his words. It was changed to first person -- people are digging so deep into this that they're changing quotes to serve their purpose, now.

This quote, taken out of context, is misleading: "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white"

The "and white" was in reference to Kaufman himself saying his being white was a problem in regards to what he was trying to do, and he wanted Obama to work for him because Obama is black so they could appeal to both parts of a racially divided Chicago.

As for: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

That means exactly what it says. Only an issue if you don't know what 'ingratiating' means. He stopped 'advertising his mothers race' because he didn't want people to think he was trying to win the favor of whites by doing so, not because he was ashamed of her race.

And no, the final quote does not mean that he will not stand with his country in a time of war, it means he will not stand against innocent Americans because they happen to be Muslim. He's simply saying innocent members of that particle group don't deserve to be mistreated because of the actions of other Muslims. And while others may discriminate against them, he will not.

Everybody's entitled to their opinions, but you're absolutely wrong here, a700. Your views are misguided and uninformed -- they lack any semblance of research or sound thought put in by yourself.

As far as the lapel pin argument goes, that's the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard. He's Obama's reasoning... "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."

Patriotism is not measured by wearing a lapel pin -- that's the stance Barack Obama took. You want to talk about Patriotism? Sarah Palin has ties to the Alaska Independence Party... a group that wanted Alaska to secede from the United States. Secede, as in... not be a part of anymore.

... but Obama doesn't wear a lapel flag pin. Oh my!

[a700hitter]

Ignorance.

You're going to determine a man's patriotism, respect, and loyalty to the Country by his attire? I'm hoping that it's ignorance, because if it's not ignorance on your part, then it's downright stupidity.

I would not conclude that any memebers of Congress is patriotic merely from the fact he/she wore the pin. However, they obviously thought it was a good idea to present that patriotic symbolism to the American people. Someone went around handing out those pins, but Obama said no. From that I conclude that he was making some sort of statement. I have heard his explanations after the fact, and they just don't ring true. When confronted with uncomfortable facts, his answers are almost always disingenuous. When asked about Ayers, he responded that he lives in his neighborhood and he is an English professor. When asked about Jeremiah Wright, he denied that Wright was a racist, then when it became clear to everyone that he is a hateful racist, he disavowed him and acted like he did not know about his racist beliefs. He has known the guy for 20 years. He has known Ayers for 20 years. But he didn't know what these guys are all about? I am left to conclude one of two things. Either Obama is a disingenuous liar or he is clueless. Which would I rather have in a President? Let's not forget his connection and crooked real estate deal with the convicted felon Rezko. He didn't know about Rezko's criminal ventures either? Come on. I am not flailing at anything. This election is just a formality. I gave up on McCain's chance weeks ago, but I will continue to confront you Obama Kool-Aid drinkers who think he is a different type of politician and a true reformer. He is a Chicago- machine made politician. It's as simple as that. The record-breaking campaign funds raised by him should be a clue that he is playing ball with the special interests and that he is doing it better than any politician in history. If you believe the Internet grass roots myth you are just fooling yourself. he's nothing new. His change is simply to something that has been done before and failed. This lurch to the left will fail too. It always has.

[See Red]

I would not conclude that any memebers of Congress is patriotic merely from the fact he/she wore the pin. However, they obviously thought it was a good idea to present that patriotic symbolism to the American people. Someone went around handing out those pins, but Obama said no. From that I conclude that he was making some sort of statement. I have heard his explanations after the fact, and they just don't ring true. When confronted with uncomfortable facts, his answers are almost always disingenuous. When asked about Ayers, he responded that he lives in his neighborhood and he is an English professor. When asked about Jeremiah Wright, he denied that Wright was a racist, then when it became clear to everyone that he is a hateful racist, he disavowed him and acted like he did not know about his racist beliefs. He has known the guy for 20 years. He has known Ayers for 20 years. But he didn't know what these guys are all about? I am left to conclude one of two things. Either Obama is a disingenuous liar or he is clueless. Which would I rather have in a President? Let's not forget his connection and crooked real estate deal with the convicted felon Rezko. He didn't know about Rezko's criminal ventures either? Come on. I am not flailing at anything. This election is just a formality. I gave up on McCain's chance weeks ago, but I will continue to confront you Obama Kool-Aid drinkers who think he is a different type of politician and a true reformer. He is a Chicago- machine made politician. It's as simple as that. The record-breaking campaign funds raised by him should be a clue that he is playing ball with the special interests and that he is doing it better than any politician in history. If you believe the Internet grass roots myth you are just fooling yourself. he's nothing new. His change is simply to something that has been done before and failed. This lurch to the left will fail too. It always has.

"Obama Kool-aid drinkers"?

You come onto this forum, post out-of-context and inaccurate quotations from Barack Obama's book and paint him as a racist and a traitor based on those quotes without doing any sort of research about them on your own and we're the kool-aid drinkers?

[a700hitter]

It's out-of-context... you're missing the important part...



It's the words of Barack Obama recapping the words of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright recapping the words of another preacher whom he'd heard years prior to that.

The Rev. Wright who has revealed himself as a racist. Obama, of course, didn't kow Wright well enough to be familiar with his hate-filled philosophy, but yet he quotes his sermon in his book.:dunno:

The first flat-out inaccurate quote is the second one: "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."

You will not find that quote in any book written by Obama. That quote is taken from an article from the American Conservative about Obama, and they are not his words. It was changed to first person -- people are digging so deep into this that they're changing quotes to serve their purpose, now.

This quote, taken out of context, is misleading: "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white"

The "and white" was in reference to Kaufman himself saying his being white was a problem in regards to what he was trying to do, and he wanted Obama to work for him because Obama is black so they could appeal to both parts of a racially divided Chicago.

As for: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

That means exactly what it says. Only an issue if you don't know what 'ingratiating' means. He stopped 'advertising his mothers race' because he didn't want people to think he was trying to win the favor of whites by doing so, not because he was ashamed of her race.

Taking into account all of the explanations and context, his writings are obsessed with race, and the people like Rev. Wright (was quoted in his book) with whom he was closely associated have been revealed as racists.

As far as the lapel pin argument goes, that's the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard. He's Obama's reasoning... "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."

This nothing but a convoluted rationalization. He wouldn't wear the pin, because others were using it as a substitute for real patriotism? This is just so disingenuous and presumptuous.

You want to talk about Patriotism? Sarah Palin has ties to the Alaska Independence Party... a group that wanted Alaska to secede from the United States. Secede, as in... not be a part of anymore.

Who's flailing in desperation now.

[a700hitter]

"Obama Kool-aid drinkers"?

You come onto this forum, post out-of-context and inaccurate quotations from Barack Obama's book and paint him as a racist and a traitor based on those quotes without doing any sort of research about them on your own and we're the kool-aid drinkers?

Look back at the post where I posted the quotes. I cut a pasted them from an email that I received. I posted them on this forum with no editorial statements to see the reaction that would be elicited. The reaction has been quite passionate, but very unconvincing.

[TheKilo]

Actually, you could make the case that standing up for what you believe in is possibly the most patriotic thing you could do...more than wearing any pin.

[a700hitter]

Actually, you could make the case that standing up for what you believe in is possibly the most patriotic thing you could do...more than wearing any pin.

But he didn't say what he was standing up for. He never addresses that which is why I said that his answer is presumptuous and disingenuous.

[a700hitter]

I skipped through the portion on abortion. This issue gets raised every 4 years with no progress one way or the other. The rest is interesting.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/2...-barack-obama/

[TheKilo]

But he didn't say what he was standing up for. He never addresses that which is why I said that his answer is presumptuous and disingenuous.

Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction

I read it as he chose to not wear the pin due to the injustices being carried against many Americans in the wake of 9/11.

Not even you could question that there was rampant racism towards people of Arab/Muslin descent (yes I know one is a country and one is a religion)...this country does have a dark history in that aspect. Racism is a significant issue in this country today and will continue to be an issue. I'm very concerned that a candidate in this upcoming election could be chosen because of his skin tone.

America is an awesome place to live in. Even better when you aren't a minority. To call Obama unpatriotic because he didn't wear a lapel pin is pretty irresponsible and is the type of fear-mongering that should have no place in politics (but has been very prevalent, especially with the last two elections).

In an idealistic world, we let the issues speak for themselves. McCain and Obama really don't differ all that much in that aspect. Unfortunately, issues don't win elections. Perception does. Say what you will about Bush's team in 2000 and 2004, they had no problem slinging a little mud. Seems like this is what you're doing here.

Put another way...Obama's decision not to wear a pin post 9/11 should not be a reason he loses this election, if he does. But it very well could be.

[See Red]

Riiight, you posted it to gauge the reaction. That sounds a bit... disingenuous.

Believe it or not, race has been a major factor in Barack Obama's life and career. His books aren't the hate filled, racist writings you've blindly made them out to be. I'd suggest actually reading them -- or at least reading more than a few out-of-context quotes from them. And if they were racist, hate-filled ramblings, would they have re-released one of them after he spoke at the 2004 DNC and it was clear he'd eventually make a run for the highest office in the United States?

And you're right, wearing a lapel pin makes you patriotic.

Read that last sentence over and over again and tell me if that actually makes any fucking sense.

You're inability to grasp these simple concepts and think rationally is absolutely astounding to me. He wouldn't wear the pin because it MAKES NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE if he does, or he does not. It's a statement against the idiots who do think wearing the pin makes you patriotic.

And why is it 'flailing wildly' to make note of McCain or Pailin's associations? Rev. Wright can be brought up until everyone involved in the discussion is blue in the face but Sarah Palin's associations with a man who said "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. ... And I won't be buried under their damn flag" is 'flailing wildly.' And if you think McCain doesn't have associations with known racists you're out of your fucking mind (see: Richard Quinn).

And nice link, good to know I can count on you to feed me someone else's rhetoric in the place of actual discussion.

[a700hitter]

I read it as he chose to not wear the pin due to the injustices being carried against many Americans in the wake of 9/11.

Not even you could question that there was rampant racism towards people of Arab/Muslin descent (yes I know one is a country and one is a religion)...this country does have a dark history in that aspect.

My old neighborhood in Brooklyn is now largely Muslim. I still have family and friends in the old neighborhood. I couldn't say with absolute certainty that there were no incidents against Muslims at that time, but I know of none. There certainly was no "rampant" racism against Muslims. They own many of the neighborhood businesses which continued to operate without incident. When I was a kid I heard about the occassional incident between the Italians from Bensonhurst and the Irish from Bay Ridge. I have not heard about problems with the Muslims from that neighborhood.

Racism is a significant issue in this country today and will continue to be an issue. I'm very concerned that a candidate in this upcoming election could be chosen because of his skin tone.

Are you concluding that if he doesn't get elected, it will be due to racism? Millions of white people will be voting for Obama whether he wins or loses, and it looks more likely that he will be elected. I must ask if an African American can be elected to the highest office in the land as the result of tens of millions of votes from white people, how significant an issue is racism in this country?

Say what you will about Bush's team in 2000 and 2004, they had no problem slinging a little mud. Seems like this is what you're doing here.

I am not slinging mud. I am asking questions. Questions that should have been asked been addressed by the Press in a more prominant fashion than the page 1 NY Times coverage of Palins' wardrobe. The answers from Obama when a tough question is asked follow a pattern of initial evasiveness followed by contrived rationalization.

[a700hitter]

Riiight, you posted it to gauge the reaction. That sounds a bit... disingenuous.

I didn't say that I was trying to gauge a reaction. I was trying to elicit a reaction, which it certainly did. Once I elicited a reaction, I engaged in discussion. That has always been an M.O. of mine. I am surprised that you have not picked up on that pattern

Believe it or not, race has been a major factor in Barack Obama's life and career. His books aren't the hate filled, racist writings you've blindly made them out to be. I'd suggest actually reading them -- or at least reading more than a few out-of-context quotes from them. And if they were racist, hate-filled ramblings, would they have re-released one of them after he spoke at the 2004 DNC and it was clear he'd eventually make a run for the highest office in the United States?

I said that his books are race obsessed, not hate filled. Some of his associates have been revealed as hate-filled.

And you're right, wearing a lapel pin makes you patriotic.

Read that last sentence over and over again and tell me if that actually makes any fucking sense.

Read my posts more carefully. I clearly stated that wearing a pin would not prove patriotism.

You're inability to grasp these simple concepts and think rationally is absolutely astounding to me. He wouldn't wear the pin because it MAKES NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE if he does, or he does not.

I am being very rational. You, on the other hand, seem quite upset. If it made no difference whether he wore the pin, then why didn't he just wear the pin? He was aware of the symbolism involved. Politicians are expert at symbolism.

And why is it 'flailing wildly' to make note of McCain or Pailin's associations? Rev. Wright can be brought up until everyone involved in the discussion is blue in the face but Sarah Palin's associations with a man who said "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. ... And I won't be buried under their damn flag" is 'flailing wildly.'

It's flailing wildly because she didn't belong to that party, and was not associated with that person in any meaningful way. Wright was Obama's spiritual leader for more than 20 years.

And if you think McCain doesn't have associations with known racists you're out of your fucking mind (see: Richard Quinn).

Really flailing wildly here.:lol:

And nice link, good to know I can count on you to feed me someone else's rhetoric in the place of actual discussion.

The link includes several videos of Obama. Are you characterizing his own speeches and statments as rhetoric?

[a700hitter]

Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction

I read it as he chose to not wear the pin due to the injustices being carried against many Americans in the wake of 9/11.

Wow, you tried to pull a fast one on me. His explanation for not wearing the pin had nothing to do with this issue. Here's a link to an article that contains his explanation which I find to be completely disingenuous and convoluted.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299439,00.html

[See Red]

I didn't say that I was trying to gauge a reaction. I was trying to elicit a reaction, which it certainly did. Once I elicited a reaction, I engaged in discussion. That has always been an M.O. of mine. I am surprised that you have not picked up on that pattern

Haven't had the displeasure of having a meaningful discussion with you, yet. Though, I find it difficult to believe you when you suggest you posted these things for the sole purpose of eliciting a response... again, you seem a bit disingenuous in this regard.

Maybe I'm a little thrown off by this: "The only difference between the actual quote is that I substituted 'Muslim' for 'them.'"

... which, by the way, is the only elicited reaction you actually responded to, and did so with a bullshit response that I'm shocked even you believe.

I said that his books are race obsessed, not hate filled. Some of his associates have been revealed as hate-filled.

So... what are you suggesting here in the last part of this? "His books are quite race obsessed if not downright racist"

Read my posts more carefully. I clearly stated that wearing a pin would not prove patriotism.

No, but you suggested that not wearing a pin suggests he will not stand with his country in time of war. I suggest you read your posts a bit more carefully. I'll make it easy...

"I think his quote reveals that he will not stand with his country in time of war, but we should have already known that from the fact that he was the only Senator not to wear an American flag pin after 9/11."

I am being very rational. You, on the other hand, seem quite upset. If it made no difference whether he wore the pin, then why didn't he just wear the pin? He was aware of the symbolism involved. Politicians are expert at symbolism.

Of course he was aware -- the statement was that wearing a lapel pin doesn't make you patriotic. He had worn the lapel pin to begin with. How are you not grasping this? I'm not upset, it's just frustrating when a grown man can't grasp this, the most simple of concepts.

It's flailing wildly because she didn't belong to that party, and was not associated with that person in any meaningful way. Wright was Obama's spiritual leader for more than 20 years.

Her husband was a member and she spoke at a number of their conventions. It's debatable whether or not she was a member herself, but if you believe the members...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twOPPzrkBwk

... she just may have been.

Really flailing wildly here.:lol:

He spent time as a political consultant for John McCain in 2000.

Or please tell me how McCain's association with G. Gordon Liddy is any different than Obama's association with Bill Ayers?

You can't point to Obama's associations and then laugh off your candidates' associations as being meaningless.

Obama's associations mean just as little as McCain's. And ultimately, they all mean very little.

The link includes several videos of Obama. Are you characterizing his own speeches and statments as rhetoric?

Use your words. Rather than argue something on your own, you link me to somebody else's argument. It points to your inability to come up with a rational thought on your own. Have you yet? Not in this thread...