Gom smackdown

[RedSoxRooter]

Sukc it.

[yeszir]

I should have written my dissertation on the social dynamics of Talksox!

[Soxfan#1]

I still see no Gom.

[example1]

His point is that he should bring both, not just the mockery, to the table.

You got it. Per usual.

[example1]

Board would be boring with only outright stats and formal discussion.

It wasn't before that stuff showed up. Again, I've said I'm not going to harp on people using it as long as they have stuff to contribute as a baseline. If its all you've got, and if you're getting it from someone else on the board to begin with, then it seems pretty weak to me.

[Dipre]

It wasn't before that stuff showed up. Again, I've said I'm not going to harp on people using it as long as they have stuff to contribute as a baseline. If its all you've got, and if you're getting it from someone else on the board to begin with, then it seems pretty weak to me.

so we all realize this board is a cool place to post at and now we're trying to dissect why? we have protagonists, antagonists, funny people, people trying to be funny, informed posters, uninformed posters, people who throw out opitions based on facts and people who throw on opinions based on emotion.........and Dojji

it works, leave it at that

Two basic choices:

No. 1: Epic Fail.

No.2: Epic Win.

[example1]

Two basic choices:

No. 1: Epic Fail.

No.2: Epic Win.

Epic Yawn.

[Dipre]

Epic Yawn.

See, you're getting with the program.

Glad to have you aboard, old timer.

[example1]

See, you're getting with the program.

Glad to have you aboard, old timer.

You will be 30 someday, god willing, and you will realize that you feel as young as you did at 18, you're just smarter and more patient. Find me then and we can see whether you still want to use the word "old" to describe 30.

[Dipre]

You will be 30 someday, god willing, and you will realize that you feel as young as you did at 18, you're just smarter and more patient. Find me then and we can see whether you still want to use the word "old" to describe 30.

Are you serious?

I thought you were 50+ like Spudboy.........

[Gom]

After having succeeded in my little social experiment, it is about time I lay the smackdown on Gom.

Got under your skin, didn't I, douchebag? I'll go through your post, point by point to show your idiocy.

To start, as a true blue Yankee fan, I question Gom’s loyalty and love of the Yankees.

Idiot.

Yes, you go to the games and I am glad someone is filling those seats.

How come you're not?

But just as one could throw jewelry at their beaten and cheated on wife, you can buy tickets to the game. As a fan of the Yankees, you must have the best interests of the club in mind when making comments that you parlay as being original and well thought out (more on this later).

Something you've never done.

But instead, you show the complete opposite. Instead, I think you are a fan of winning only.

Non-sensical.

And the fact that the Yankees had been the biggest winners through your youth may be the only true reason why you state your fandom.

As if you knew...I started following the Yankees in 1983, as an 11 year old kid. I went through one of the longest stretches this team ever had before they won a World Series, 13 years.

You have stated before that this yr is all that matters, that the present is all you care about. Is that someone who is a true fan of a team that may be in need of an overhaul?

You're a clueless idiot if you think a team that enjoys a TREMENDOUS fiscal advantage needs an overhaul. We aren't the Twins, or the Marlins.

Or is that someone who doesn’t want to lose his bragging rights to his Mets and Sox buddies? I’d go with the latter. And you prove it every single day. You continue to spout negative remarks on the future of minor leaguers and rookies in our system when you have seen only glimpses of them.

Not true. I like Coke, I like Gardner. From what I've SEEN of them. Not press clippings. Also, I think Austin Jackson could be decent from what little I've seen of him in spring training. Sorry, I'm not high on Kennedy like you are. Or Edwar Ramirez, who I think you believe will be the next Mariano. I temper my enthusiasm...which is abhorrent to you because I don't believe everything in the Yankee media guide.

Guys who at 22 yrs old, you are labeling as duds. How do you know? Have you followed them? Of course not. But if they start to develop their potential into production, you'll be the first person to slap on the kneepads and start slurping.

I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. Something, apparently you've never done. Admit that you're wrong. It's an ego defect.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg of course. Your “labeling” of players as being terrible from one at bat is comical to say the least. And while the level headed posters on this site say, well it was one at bat, or it was one pitch. Or even the obvious, they are kids, they are gonna be inconsistent. You go to another level. Drawing on your immense high school baseball past, you try and pretend like you know the mechanics of a major league swing or pitch to the level of an advanced scout.

Coached, umpired, and I taught myself baseball, since my parents came here and knew nothing of the game and how it's played. I learn about the game every day. You, on the other hand, were born with this innate logic. I bow to your genetic disposition to baseball. Idiot.

And when anyone dare question your prior experience, you say that you could have tried out for the Hofstra baseball team, but probably wouldn’t have made it. That’s like saying you were the shortest midget in Disney’s production of “It’s a Small World”. And in case you don’t understand that last sentence, I can put it bluntly, you sucked at baseball. And while the mantra for teachers may be, those who can’t do, teach, it isn’t the same for baseball. Those who can’t play, can’t teach or scout. So don’t draw on your own experiences, they were far too useless for you to get anything out of it, or for you to gain any credibility on this site.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Everyone here laughs at you for your belief that EVERY PLAYER in the Yankees system as being a potential star..and you're to obtuse to realize it. What a clueless idiot.

Now its on to the little social experiment. I thought of it when you started the thread on Molina being better for the Yankees than Posada. And as every single sox fan told you that you were crazy, you stuck to your guns.

In respect to my friends here, they don't see as much of Posada as we do. Also, they don't watch it from the same point of view. They are watching their players and their hitters. It's human nature. ORS or Kilo is more likely to catch something Varitek is doing, because I'm watching what Jeter or Arod is doing.

Now, your thought isn’t very original.

I never said I was the first one to come up with the idea. However, I called it last year when Posada got injured, BEFORE Michael Kay started harping on it. I said that it could be a blessing in disguise. See, unlike you, I don't have to wait until something becomes mainstream before I believe it, or say it. Want proof, dumbass? The following post is from last year.
http://www.talksox.com/forum/damn-ya...ise#post341030

Michael Kay brings it up every time Molina catches. “Well, Paul, you cannot underestimate the defensive value that Molina brings to the game. He might even be more valuable than Posada.” He’s said that a few more times in the past and each time, I wanted to choke him.

Why? Because he disagrees with your viewpoint? You really are a clueless idiot. What a fucking moron.

But he didnt go to Gom’s extreme. No, Gom chose to take his point and go one further. And aside from all evidence presented by ORS, Kilo, Me or anyone else, Gom continued to hang onto his delusions. This obviously wasn’t the first time Gom has been deluded, but it’s the most recent example. And delusions being a key word. Delusions are fixed, false beliefs.

You mean like your belief that the Yankees were better off not trading Melky, Kennedy, Hilligoss and Marquez for Santana? This is getting better and better.

So, I decided to use that term for every post Gom made. My hope was to see if he would follow his unoriginal ways and copy me. And yes, he has. With his new phrase clueless idiot. First he tried to lure me out with feaux doc. Then, seeing as that did not work, he copied me. Something he does all the time. The lack of originality is incredible.

So, I came up with something before you heard it. That makes me a copycat. Your defense of your point come to "You are delusional". Since you couldn't defend your position, I decided to stoop to your level, and play "I know you are, but what am I". I figured you'd finally get the point. Apparently not. Oh, and by the way, learn how to spell. It's faux, not feaux.

So in closing, I think I have touched upon three areas of contention I have with Gom. The first, Gom is not a Yankee fan, but a fan of winning.

Only an arrogant shithead like you would make an assumption of someone's fandom. As if you know. That's like me saying that you are a fan of young boys in the farm system and you don't care about what happens, but what MIGHT happen. Get real.

If Gom was a sox fan, I’d put him in the same boat as the pink hats, Matt Damon, and that pole smoker Ben Affleck. The second point, Gom pretends to be an expert while he was never very good in the first place and certainly is not qualified to make the scouting comments that he frequently makes (most of them being wrong anyway). And third, he lacks originality as shown by my little experiment.

Last I saw, you weren't in the box score last night. Neither was anyone else here. So we all sucked at baseball playing. You know what? Your prized idiot GM never played baseball. Didn't go as far as you or I did. What does that mean? You get dumber by the second.

Good day to you all.

Does this mean you're leaving?

Ok, now that I've had my retort, here is what I want to know about you.

Why can't you ever admit you're wrong? You have been wrong so far about the Santana deal, about Edwar, about Veras, about Hughes, about Kennedy. You're wrong in saying that Wang is back to where he was. He threw 94-96. He was between 88-92 in his minor league start from what I've heard. He's not the same pitcher yet he was the last few years. Players can dominate in the minors for one reason. Anyone who's any good is up at the major league level.

My problem with you is your ignorance. You cannot admit when you are wrong, most likely because it's an ego defect. You cannot see anything outside of what is in your little brain. When I'm wrong, I admit it. You never have as far as I recollect. That makes you a clueless idiot.

Let me illustrate. The Yankees have a team ERA of HALF what it is when anybody but Posada catches. Please explain. If you say it's a small sample size, then I will say that Posada's hitting is also a small sample size. Can't have it both ways..."doc".

Here is another question: Have you actually tried to look at what I've been saying? Have you ever noticed Posada dropping his glove BEFORE the umpire makes the call? Honestly? Can you explain why the Yankees have had EIGHT games with Posada out in which they gave up 3 runs or less..and only FOUR with him catching ALL SEASON so far?

You can't. It's why you resorted to delusional comments. It's your only defense. Either that, or you'd have to back-track, and that would just KILL you. It's like your infantile sig. Kilo gets pissed at his players because he's a fan. You take such joy in it, you put it in your sig. As if no one ever cursed out his team's players because they failed in a big spot. It's childish and infantile, and you do it, well..because your mind is childish and infantile. There is nothing wrong with learning from others. Trust me on this point. Try it sometime. Sorry, I regressed to your level for a moment. Back to my point...

See, here is my point about watching the games. That is the raw data. All the formulas, the tracking of hits and pitches, etc. is based on the same raw data that you and I see every time we watch a game. Do our eyes deceive us sometimes? Of course. However, and this is basic science, something that you of all people should realize, is that you form a hypothesis based upon your observation and then go about proving [or disproving it]. The stats don't make the game. It's the other way around. Most statistics are indicators.

What I'm trying to say is this:

It's all there. It's right in front of us. We may not have developed a formula for something, but it's there. OPS is nothing more than adding OBP and SLG. However, before someone came up with the formula, no one understood it. Did the game change? No. Our understanding of the game changed. Remember Moneyball? One of the big tenements was that fielding didn't matter. Now, most baseball pundits will tell you it is a large part of the game. It's why Abreu and Dunn didn't score big deals this past off-season.

Our understanding of the game based only upon statistics is limited by our statistical model at the time. I'm sure that one day, probably very soon, a legitimate statistic about the effect a catcher has on a team will be determined. Until then, you won't believe it because you simply can't see it.

There are fallacies intrinsic to each mode or style of analysis.

However, I embrace both sides. I see something I believe, then I look to see if the statistics back it up. If they do, then I was right. If they don't, then either I'm wrong, or the statistical model is inaccurate. I thought Jeter was a decent fielder. I'd been so used to seeing him, I had forgetten what another shortstop looked like. When Jimenez came up when Jeter was hurt, I started to realize I could be wrong. Then I started to pay attention to the other team's shortstop, and I realized the statistics were in contradiction to what I saw. Jeter had a good arm, and is sure-handed, but has terrible range.

I saw the same thing with Posada. The Yankees were losing strikes every time he caught, and the team ERA was terrible when he caught, but the same pitchers were dominating when Molina caught. So I went and looked it up. Lo and behold, the stats backed me up.

I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong. I also don't put anywhere near the faith you do in minor league stats that you do. If you don't do it up here, I don't really care.

So here is what I ask you to do, because, to be honest, this is tiresome. Pay close attention to Cervelli. I'll tell you what I've seen him do. Before the pitcher goes into the windup, he puts his glove down, giving a big target. He also frames the pitch well. Then watch when Posada comes back. He puts the glove down while the pitcher starts his windup. Also, when he catches the glove, he drops his glove BEFORE the umpire makes the call.

I know you'll never agree with anything I say, whether I'm right or wrong because of your ego defect. Just tell me if you see what I see. Whether you agree on the value of this with me is irrelevant. I just want to see if you can see it.

Or should I wait for another "delusional" comment?

[Dipre]

This thread delivers.

[jacksonianmarch]

I can admit when I am wrong. The fact is, you try to judge these players before they declare what kind of players they become.

The Santana deal looks bad for us right now, BUT, Hughes is 22 and we have seen what he can do when he is on. Thing is, at 22, he isnt ready yet. If he went to college, he would be in this yr's draft as a senior. Melky is putting together a pretty good start. Marquez was integral in the Swisher deal. And Hilligoss has fallen off the map. I absolutely will make a call on this when the time comes. Right now, it is firmly in Santana's favor. But you cannot predict the career of someone who has such good stuff at the age of 22.

Robertson is 23 or 24. He isnt done yet either. Neither is Melancon.

Now onto your idea with Posada. The ERA could just be the fact that Burnett and CC are known to be slow starters. And yes, it is a ridiculously small sample size. He went down in April. You never make judgements in April. And to say that Posada's offense is a small sample size, look at his career.

Watching the games is not raw data. Do you know what raw data is? Raw data is hits, walks, at bats, etc. That is easily measureable data. Watching the games as a fan biases you toward the most recent event. And while you can pick up flaws over time, it is not the most accurate way to evaluate a player.

Your comment on your biases being proven wrong by stats is just funny. Statistics are meant to prove or disprove a hypothesis. In order to prove or disprove a hypothesis, you need to have a sufficient n (number of patients in my field, and a number of at bats when you are talking about baseball) to have your "study" be powered enough. You seem to like "studies" with very low N's, which essentially means that most of your ideas cannot be proven with the power you selected. Then you present what you have in a high and mighty way and smack down anyone that disagrees. Anything that would require a longer term study period, you refuse to do. I have challenged you in the past. Go back through Molina's career with the yankees and calculate the CERA with every pitcher he has caught. Then go through those same pitchers with Posada. I will assure you, that the slight if any difference in ERA from pitcher to pitcher will not make up for his D. If you wish to make that effort, then I'll believe you. But instead, you call us all idiots for not believing your unoriginal idea.

Your comment on being proven wrong by stats is comical too. Either I am wrong (which you also never admit) or the "statistical model is inaccurate." Good one, that made me laugh.

I do find it funny, though, that you don't actually take me to task on your lack of yankee fandom. A retort coming perhaps?

[TheKilo]

"I liked them when they sucked too, ya know," is the mating call of the Yankee Stadium Bleacher Creature, who is identifiable by his pin-striped jersey with either the number 2 or 13 on the back, and his hatred/love of Alex Rodriguez depending upon whether or not he has just grounded into yet another inning-ending double play with the bases loaded or homered to put the Yankees up 14-3 over the Rays in mid-May.

When quizzed upon which players, besides Don Mattingly, played for the Yankees in the mid-80s, the average Yankee fan will usually respond with a blank stare followed by a "Who's Your Daddy" chant.

[jacksonianmarch]

shall we secure a pink pinstripes hat for Gom? That would work, right?