Slow news day. We are debating which medications unfairly enhance performance. LOL!!
Slow news day. We are debating which medications unfairly enhance performance. LOL!!
The King of TalkSox has Spoken.
Originally Posted by a700hitter
Using adderall and no physical activity will not yield any tangible results. They do not have the effect that steroids have. I was reading some articles on them, and saw a study where they tested the effect of steroids on the body. They used four groups over a ten week period. The first group did no weightlifting and received no steroids. The second group did no weightlifting, but received steroids. The third did weightlifting, but no steroids. The fourth did both. I have to concede this argument to you after seeing the results.
Group 1 - no change
Group 2 - 7 pounds of muscle
Group 3 - 4 pounds of muscle
Group 4 - 13 pounds of muscle
That's insanity. 7 pounds of muscle without doing anything. When steroids and adderall are in the same group, there might be a problem with the definition. I was definitely underestimating the impact of steroids.
From what I've read, dopamine isn't the only chemical released by adderall. Norepinephrine and adrenaline are also released. I think they are the chemicals that enhance energy and focus. Dopamine is probably the cause of the euphoria and increased confidence by adderall users. I don't think it's an illusion.Does it enhance energy or focus, or do the dopamines give you the illusion of that? Those are two separate things, and things that anyone saying they're "performance enhancing" should have to prove. If they want to ban the substance, that's their decision, just like it's a decision to ban weed. Weed makes you more relaxed, maybe that should be a performance enhancing drug as well, Christian Ponder sure as hell could use some of that.
I was arguing the opposite view. How do we know anyone actually has ADHD? I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just leave it at that.That's what I'm saying, and almost anyone can have it diagnosed. Who's to say they don't have ADHD. If you have a hard time focusing, if you're lethargic because of boredom, then maybe you do have ADHD.
Doesn't adrenaline kind of give you energy/slow things down for you? I always thought that was an illusion, and you know, you weren't literally more energized, and things aren't literally slower than normal, and that was the nature of it being a drug and all. Hahaha, just kidding though. I see what you're saying, but I really don't think you can prove it enhances your performance, and if you can I think it'd be tough to do because it's a mental advantage, if anything.
I agreed with you, because I do agree that it may not actually exist, and your brain may not necessarily work any differently. I do think that certain people have a hard time with paying attention, though.I was arguing the opposite view. How do we know anyone actually has ADHD? I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just leave it at that.
Last edited by Emmz; 02-04-2014 at 04:44 PM.
Adrenaline is the hormone behind the fight-or-flight response, so it seems counterproductive to slow things down at that moment. Norepinephrine is the chemical associated with focus.
Although, after taking adderall for the first time in awhile today, I can't call it a performance enhancing drug. In fact, it's been more counterproductive. I was too wired to sit still, and when I could, I hyperfocused on the wrong things. You need to show at least a minimal amount of effort for adderall to work. Besides, where exactly is the performance increase? He might learn the playbook faster?
I never used adderall, even though I probably have ADD/ADHD. IMO, it's not a disadvantage. It means you're imaginative, if anything, and you don't simply live in the present moment.
I'm sick of not living in the moment.
Priorities:
1. Yankees lose
2. Red Sox win
Yeah, that would suck to not be able to do that.
I think telling someone they have ADHD is medical malpractice, although I don't think that's the right word for it. Psychiatry believes that ADHD is the result of a brain disease, or a chemical imbalance. There is ZERO evidence to support this claim, so telling someone that is an outright lie. I don't know if they really believe they are helping someone when they tell them that. There's a lot of money behind getting people to believe it. Deceiving people for financial gain is not considered moral, but doing it under the guise of science and medicine is unbelievably evil. Maybe they really believe it, but many psychiatrists are bought by the pharmaceutical industry and having knowingly lied about medical benefits of prescription drugs. I can't think of a more suitable definition of evil.
With that being said, I don't buy that players need amphetamines. How did they even manage to make it to the highest level if they couldn't focus? I guess if you want to call it a PED, I guess that players on meth, cocaine, or even coffee would be as well. I guess marijuana would be qualify in this instance as well. Although, if it's being used to relieve pain, then it would be considered a medicine.
Last edited by rjortiz; 02-06-2014 at 12:17 PM.
Same industry that allows drugs that can cause suicidal/homicidal thoughts and depression to continue to be called anti-depressants, does it really surprise you?
If these drugs do legitimately reduce depression in a lot of people, what is the correct thing to call them?
Depression is an extremely difficult condition to treat, don't you think? Some people have depression that is so bad that no matter what treatment they receive, they end up committing suicide.
I'm not trying to belittle your statement. This just happens to be a topic that concerns me on a deep personal level. Depression destroyed my mother's life. I suffer from it, and my wife suffers from it worse than I do.
Last edited by Bellhorn04; 02-07-2014 at 11:30 AM.
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
From what I can tell people who suffer from depression are usually depressed because of their personality. It's in their personality to over analyze where their life is at, and whether or not they're rich and successful, or living in poverty, they usually always do the same. To me, why should you be taking pills for that? Especially ones that change the way your mind works, for better or worse. Honestly my comment wasn't intended seriously, I realize that the success rate of antidepressants is actually pretty good. Seriously though, unhappiness (IMO, what depression really is, and should never be thought of as anything more) isn't really anything that a little sativa and some critical thinking can't fix.
Last edited by Emmz; 02-07-2014 at 03:33 PM.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...articleResults
The numbers that support their effectiveness are based on selective publishing of clinical trials. Big Pharma has its claws in psychiatry and the FDA.
Personally I think happiness is an abstraction. I'm not convinced anybody can actually remain happy on an ongoing basis. I do absolutely believe in the concepts of feeling good or bad, or being in a good mood or bad mood. Those are very real things.
I will say this - a psychologist that I saw was a big believer in the idea of 'mind over mood'. It's something that I try very hard to work at. But sometimes I find that bad moods are so overwhelming all I can do is hope for them to pass - which they do.
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
Probably not, I know I've never been able to completely avoid being unhappy. Sometimes you need help to see that there's more than what you're perceiving, and that's when drugs can help you, and I see antidepressants as a last resort type of thing. Otherwise, I hate to say it, but if you're going to kill yourself, it's usually a much more rational choice to make than others might realize, and by that I mean rational from the point of view of the person who's committing suicide.
I really think the critical thinking aspect of this is important, though. Some people who are depressed are convinced that it's someone else's problem that they're depressed, which is very narcissistic. There's the root of your problem, and you think about it and you challenge yourself to think about your own problems, and you can help yourself to get over it.
Last edited by Emmz; 02-07-2014 at 05:08 PM.
Drugs. They are drugs. You can try to dance around it anyway you want, but they act the same way street drugs do. They have no way of knowing what's going on in your brain, so they can't actually correct anything. Long term, it's going to damage your brain. There's no way around that.
I was on 60 mg adderall, 600 mg Lithium, 40 mg Latuda, 300 mg Gabapentin, 10 mg Abilify, and 6 grams of Xyrem. I don't think I would have made 40.
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