The "few bad apples" argument. I think you're way understating the corruption of police departments, as well as the complicity of the "good cops" who cover for their comrades. I'll expand on it a little later, but my point is that police corruption is a serious problem throughout the world. And what is a "gang?" It's just a organized group of criminals. You don't have to be the Latin Kings to be a gang.
That was completely not my point. My point is, the police provide a service to the community that gangs most certainly do not. Police corruption is a problem, yes. More so in some other countries, but definitely here as well. But calling all police departments 'organized groups of criminals' goes far beyond hyperbole and strays into the realm of the conspiracy-theory mindset. You say that I am understating the corruption of police officers, but any basic knowledge of the sheer number of actual criminals that the police have put in prison or killed indicated that you are overstating it. "A few bad apples" is exactly what it is. The bad ones stand out a lot more when the apples are on display for all the world to see. I worked with a half-dozen drivers when I was delivering pizza. One of them was a violent, vulgar lunatic who probably should have been in prison just to protect the rest of the world from him. There is almost always a guy like that at every job I know of. It doesn't mean all pizza delivery drivers are Charles Manson, mainly because, come on, who the hell is going to tip Charles Manson after he has his girlfriend stab you in the kidney while you're checking to see if they remembered the crazy bread?
Anyways, my point is, again, yes, we all know there are police officers who are criminals, who should never be allowed out on the street again. But using the ones who are like that to casually dismiss the service that the rest of them provide is as offensive as anything their defenders could say.
There have been plenty of documented incidents of soldiers committing awful crimes. Murders, torture, rape, random violence against civilian or even allied targets. In Japan and Korea there are restaurants and bars around our military bases who are beginning to refuse service to uniformed military personnel due to assaults and other crimes that many of them have committed while on leave. Those servicemen are doing the same thing the bad police officers do. Using their uniform and the prestige and authority that it gives them to act like assholes.
But never for a second would I use any instance, from a drunken sailor punching a karaoke singer in a Korean bar for singing off-key, to an Army soldier massacring a village full of Iraqi women and children, to condescendingly dismiss the service and the sacrifice that the US military provides to this country. I will respect and honor every man and woman in uniform, whether it be a soldier, a marine, a sailor, an...air forcer? Airman?, a police officer, or a firefighter, until that individual person gives me a damned good reason not to.
There are cities in this country right now where being a cop is terrible. You're understaffed, overworked, trying to keep a poverty-stricken and crime-ridden city from dissolving into total chaos. Detroit is one example. There are small towns that have one or two police officers, who sometimes take on far more responsibility than they are required to, in order to serve the town that they have sworn an oath to. Thousands of police officers in this country have died in the line of duty, at the hands of criminals while trying to stop them from stealing other people's property, at the hands of criminals while trying to stop them from hurting or killing innocent people, and sometimes just at the hands of someone they pulled over for speeding who didn't like cops.
You can rail against police corruption all you want, but the fact is there are thousands and thousands of police officers on the clock right now who are doing their job the way it's supposed to be done, and by generalizing all of them as criminals you cheapen the sacrifice of not only them, but any American citizen who has ever volunteered to risk their safety for the protection of the rest of us.
I am now imagining a knife-fight, in the rain, between Taylor Swift and Katy Perry. And it is good.
Just because an organization provides a service does not excuse them for the criminal actions they partake in. Also, I'm not equating the police to the Latin Kings. You are correct that the police do some good, however you disagreeing with me calling them an "organized group of criminals" is more of your reluctance to acknowledge the definition of the word gang. It obviously cannot be a conspiracy theory, because you have admitted that corruption is a problem. I'd also add that any officer that does not come forward when he has witnessed corruption is as guilty as the officer who engaged in it. Unfortunately, the "Blue Code of Silence," prevents us from learning just how deep and widespread it is. That alone dispels the few bad apples argument, and suggests that it is more of an institutional problem.
The organization does not need to be excused for the actions of an individual. That's part of the problem in today's society. When a McDonalds employee says something racist to a customer, the entire McDonalds corporation feels obliged to apologize, as if they ordered that employee to be a dick. They should not feel this way. The police provide the service, as both of us agree, and some of them are bad at it.
I do, in fact, know the definition of a gang, at least in this context. The police are neither a gang of that sort or a group of organized criminals. They are an organization of employees dedicated to public service who happen to have criminals in their midst.
I wasn't calling you a conspiracy theorist, I was equating your single-minded determination to convince us all that the police are horrible with the mindset of conspiracy theorists.
Though I have no proof of this, not having telepathy or access to classified documents, I am reasonably certain that not every police officer has witnessed another committing a crime. Yes, if they are silent or cover it up, they are just as bad, but again, that doesn't make every police officer bad.
Your one-sentence allusion to the "Blue Code of Silence", which sounds like something gleaned from hours of investigative journalism into the scripts of NYPD Blue and The Shield, does not dispel my entire argument. Just saying "This statement dispels your argument" does not actually do so.
What does dispel your argument, however, is the reality of everyday life in this country. If every police force contained enough criminals to be the majority, or even if it was an even split, what kind of shape would society be in? The fact remains that a cursory Google search or a brief scan of your local newspaper will show that there are hundreds of thousands of murderers, rapists, thieves, child molesters, Yankees fans, drunk drivers, wife-beaters, people who wear wife-beaters, and scam artists in our prisons. Nearly all of them have been put there through the efforts of the police. I am not disputing your point about corruption. It exists. It shouldn't exist, and it should be stamped out whenever it is found. And sometimes, it is. Just recently a police officer in my own state was convicted of murder, and rightfully so.
What I am disputing is your continued assertions that the police are nothing but an organized group of criminals. Gangs are an organized group of criminals. The police are an organized group of public servants who unfortunately have criminals in their midst, just like any other line of work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7IHJYwWwwY
Sorry, can't seem to post the vid, maybe a mod could oblige
Don't forget 'innocents' off that list there Youk
Last edited by JohnShaft; 08-23-2013 at 04:01 PM.
Who delivers ten times out of ten? Thats right baby.
I have lived in one of the worst areas of Massachusetts my entire life. I have never been arrested or anything. From my experience with police, they aren't really bad. Most police around here seem to be alright dudes, but still I know a bit about some of the crap they do. I'd say 7 out of 10 cops are usually cool. Suburban cops seem to be the worst, they will hassle you for any reason. ANY reason. Strangely enough, the nicest cops I've dealt with were the State Police, which is funny cause they have the worst reputation. The meanest craziest ones have been black cops.... and I am black myself.
In the end, I still don't %100 trust them. I've heard nasty things from people, people who were treated very wrongly, and other people who have a knowledge of things that go on we normally wouldn't know about, and it can be fucked up. It really is a bad apple scenario though.
Never fully trust someone who can hold some sort of power over you. Never.