Yeah, they haven't tried to get him to work on his weakness yet. He should be fine in 4 months. These guys aren't dumb.
Yeah, they haven't tried to get him to work on his weakness yet. He should be fine in 4 months. These guys aren't dumb.
These guys aren’t dumb? Didn’t desperate dave just go into a Season thinking Pablo could handle 3rd base for us?????Originally Posted by moonslav59
Exactly.
"Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.
"It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."
He does have a cannon. He just needs to work on his footwork and tone down the hurried throws.
At the same time he needs to know when to hurry up because the batter can get down the line.
He is 20. And while at least one big brain here believes that 4 years of pro ball should be enough to be a good defender and that because he is not presently one he probably will never be one I say just work with him. That is exactly the type of thing Cora is very good at from what I have read.
Patience.
"Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.
"It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."
When did Dombrowki ever say Pablo was the answer at 3rd base? All along he said that Pablow would have to perform to be the starter and that he would be given that opportunity.
Stop making shit up just because you have an irrational hate for the man. Pick on something obvious like the way he combs his hair or the cheesy used car salesman wardrobe.
"Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.
"It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."
Actually Jon Lester and Matt Cain (when he was good) spent years living in the top sliver of the strike zone doing just that...
Stop misrepresenting my position.
1) I said I'm fine with keeping Devers at 1B, if we make big strides in building up our offense at 1B.
2) I said I think Devers can become a decent defensive 3Bman over time but have concerns about the "learning curve" and "on-the-job-training" during the next two years of highly competitive runs for the ring.
3) My comment on Devers having already played 4 years of pro ball was aimed at the idea that somehow he is magically going to grow exponentially on defense in 4 months of off-season practice, when working on his defense has been a big focus for 4 years already.
I never said 4 years is all you should give a 17 year old prospect to sink or swim.
My idea of signing Moustakas, instead of Hosmer is more about not liking Hosmer than liking Moose. Moose is a better power hitter but worse at OBP. We need power. The improvement on defense at 3B for maybe 2 years tips the balance for me.
I'd rather see us sign JD Martinez or trade for Stanton. I've even mentioned I like Santana slightly more than Moose. All of these moves would keep Devers at 3B, so it's not like I'm leading a parade to move Devers off 3B.
Now, go ahead and get in your passive aggressive last word.
I think DD also felt Hernandez was a capable replacement for Pablito, but then he got hurt.
Crazy impossible three way trade that will never happen
Cubs get: Jackie Bradley
Marlins get: Addison Russell, Michael Chavis and Rusney Castillo
Red Sox get: Giancarlo Stanton, Edinson Vazquez and Martin Prado
Marlins free tons of money, even with taking back Castillo, whose Cuban heritage is a plus for them. (As is his defense.) They also get 3 arbitration years of a very good tshortstop. And a good 3b prospect.
Cubs fill the biggest hole in their lineup with a guy their FO drafted and do so without dropping $70-80 mill on Lorenzo Cain.
Sox get a new LF, SP, and Prado, who is otherwise immovable to the Marlins. A lot of money, although Volquez has only one year left. Prado really can't play 2b anymore and might end up platooning at first with either an internal candidate (Swihart? ) or a cheap external one (non-tender candidate CJ Cron?)
I might be too far outside the box here. Where's that box again?
Last edited by notin; 11-10-2017 at 09:29 AM.
I'd even add Beeks or Shawaryn or Travis (assuming we add a 1Bman).
No offense here meant Moon at all but some of us truly do not believe in the cliff concept at all. We don't see the sense of urgency that you see with respect to the next few years. I don't mind being considered blind or naive or someone who is simply in denial either. If the decision is made to at some time move Devers to first base with respect to making our team better, I will be on board with that as well. Since I do not believe in the impending closing of a wnner's window, I am also Ok with him being left at third.
I respect your opinion, but I think even if you don't believe in the cliff, you must feel we might have a good chance at winning a ring in the next year or two. Beyond that doesn't really involve how we see Devers growing at 3B on defense. By then, we should know, if he's going to stick or not, anyways.
I do not think we will win a ring or lose depending on our 3B defense. There's hardly ever just one area that makes or breaks a season. I do, however, think it could be a factor in winning the division vs a wild card. I do think we could lose a key playoff game due, in part, to an error by Devers.
Like I said, I'm not looking for ways to move Devers to 3B. I'm fine with him staying at 3B, if we can seriously boost our offense at 1B somehow. I do not see Hosmer as a good choice. He will cost too much and want too many years. He's not a significant power upgrade over Moreland. I'd be fine keeping Devrs at 3B, if we get JD, Stanton or even Santana, but if we can't get one of those three, and trade options involve opening new holes, then I'll take Moose over Hosmer 100%. Moose is noit my plan A, B or C, so I'm not sure why people are acting like moving Devers is my top priority. It isn't.
Moose offers way more raw power than Hosmer. We'd surely be better on defense for at least a year or two. That's all I'm saying.
The "urgency" part of my argument is not the over-riding factor in choosing Moose over Hosmer, and who knows, maybe Devers moves back to 3B from 1B/DH in 2-3 years, even if we sign Moose. Moose might be moved to 1B in year 2-3 of his 4-5 year deal.
I agree. It's not as though Henry's going to demand that Sox follow, say Marlins financial game plan and cut back on player salaries. We will always be one of big spenders. We do have some salaries coming off in two years. Pablo, Hanley and Porcello makes $60M together. That will surely pay for two big free agents, maybe one this year and another one next year. We may need to plug holes with $5-$7M type players. You can only have so many $30M plus guys.
Last edited by Nick; 11-10-2017 at 12:16 PM.
I think that those are all good arguments. You have to think that DD is looking at some of these situations in the same light to be honest. I don't even want to make a guess as to how it all will be worked out but I do think that it will get worked out.
Nobody is saying Henry is going to cut back on the salary budget. I will say, he's never had an opening day roster above $200M. I think he will in 2018.
He could be at $220M by 2021, and we will still have to say good bye to several big impact players before then just to stay at $220M. Yes, maybe we can do alright with several $5-7M players, but we're going to need some significant input from the farm.
I guess what gets me the most is that it seems like, and I'm not linking all cliff deniers together, those who had no issue with trading away prospects, because we can't count on them to do anything anyways, especially the single A prospects, are now putting faith in our current farm system to help solve the problem in 2021. A farm that is much lower ranked than it was 1-2 years ago.
I'm not saying our farm is totally depleted, but I feel like we are going to need more than 3 or 4 current prospects doing well in 2021.
I hope to hell I'm wrong. I'm hopeful we can avoid last place finishes or even losing records, but I just don't see the probabilites being all that great for us to be contenders, even with a budget of $220M paying....
$31M Price
$13M Pedey
$32M Sale
$27M Betts
$22M Bogey
$20M Kimbrel
$18M Pom and JBJ
That's $180M in just 8 players. (That's not counting who we sign this winter.)
+ Arbs for Beni, Devers and others
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