A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Results-wise, Ben's run as GM was totally bizarre. A world championship-fantastic. A 93-loss season and a 91-loss season (the most losses for a Red Sox team since 1965)-horrific.

[Jack Flap]

Basically, we would have to give away Bradley to get the Mariners to take Castillo?

Sounds awful...granted, this was written way back in October, before the Red Sox turned down trade proposals involving Yasiel Puig and Edwin Encarnacion for Bradley.

I wonder if people realize, when they spin up salary dump proposals like this, that Castillo's money doesn't count against the luxury tax, therefore he is not incurring any penalties for the team or hampering our ability to add other players. He's not hurting anyone where he is (except perhaps John Henry's ample checkbook), so let him stay there until an opportunity comes along that would actually improve our club.

[mvp 78]

Results-wise, Ben's run as GM was totally bizarre. A world championship-fantastic. A 93-loss season and a 91-loss season (the most losses for a Red Sox team since 1965)-horrific.

It was like a Maury Povich show. Sometimes you are the father, but sometimes you are NOT the father and you get to run around and act self righteous and do a little dance on tv.

[moonslav59]

I was kind of hoping we gave Elias one more shot at a starter role, but...


Former Mariners starter Roenis Elias has become somewhat of an afterthought since the Red Sox acquired him prior to 2016, but the left-hander could reemerge this year out of the bullpen. Elias is now working as a reliever, owing in part to a newfound commitment to using a sidearm delivery against same-sided hitters, per Chad Jennings of the Boston Herald. The only lefty reliever on Boston’s projected roster is Robby Scott, which could help give Elias a path back to the majors. After appearing in 51 games and making 49 starts from 2014-15 in Seattle, with which he pitched to a 3.97 ERA across 279 innings, Elias has only thrown eight frames in two years with the Red Sox. The 29-year-old spent nearly all of 2016-17 with Triple-A Pawtucket.

[mvp 78]

@InsideEdgeScout

Mookie Betts and Jackie Bradley ran down a lot of balls in the outfield last season.

Betts made 17 non-routine plays out of 41 chances (41.5%) in 2017 — 10th best in MLB; League Avg: 22.3%.

Bradley made 11 non-routine plays out of 28 chances (39.3%) in 2017 — 12th best in MLB.

[mvp 78]

I was kind of hoping we gave Elias one more shot at a starter role, but...


Former Mariners starter Roenis Elias has become somewhat of an afterthought since the Red Sox acquired him prior to 2016, but the left-hander could reemerge this year out of the bullpen. Elias is now working as a reliever, owing in part to a newfound commitment to using a sidearm delivery against same-sided hitters, per Chad Jennings of the Boston Herald. The only lefty reliever on Boston’s projected roster is Robby Scott, which could help give Elias a path back to the majors. After appearing in 51 games and making 49 starts from 2014-15 in Seattle, with which he pitched to a 3.97 ERA across 279 innings, Elias has only thrown eight frames in two years with the Red Sox. The 29-year-old spent nearly all of 2016-17 with Triple-A Pawtucket.

Maybe they think he has a better chance of sticking at RP and maybe can go multiple innings when he needs to?

[moonslav59]

Is Justin Haley a 6/7th starter candidate?

He came back to us on rule 5 last year and hasn't looked too bad.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I am not comparing DD to Theo who clearly knows how to build a team in all aspects including pitching. Ben could never figure out how to draft or build pitching. Ben just doesn't cut it as a GM. He blew his shot in spectacular fashion. He managed to finish last 3 times while choking the budget for years after his departure with huge FA busts, and he left the organization completely bereft of pitching. His record and legacy is indefensible.

Ben was also left an organization that was devoid of any pitching talent, aside from Jon Lester who was an impending free agent. You could say not resigning Lester was a huge mistake but that still builds into the argument me and Notin are making.

Ben was handed a shit team, and sold off and rebuilt in such a way that gave him a WS in 2013, the 2014 team that failed was the same 2013 team that won it all. 2015 is where I think he truly failed as a G.M. He got cute and thought he could be smarter than everyone else and sold off MLB assets for other MLB assets. Porcello actually ended up being a pretty good deal but the Lackey trade was an absolute disaster.

Ben was a different kind of G.M. I think he was the right guy at that time, he kept and built up the farm but I don't think he had the balls to pull the trigger and move those assets the way DD has. DD was the right man at the right time as his record is much better on the trading side of the ball.

[mvp 78]

Is Justin Haley a 6/7th starter candidate?

He came back to us on rule 5 last year and hasn't looked too bad.

http://m.mlb.com/player/595234/justin-haley

Not a chance.

[Bellhorn04]

Ben was also left an organization that was devoid of any pitching talent, aside from Jon Lester who was an impending free agent. You could say not resigning Lester was a huge mistake but that still builds into the argument me and Notin are making.

Ben was handed a shit team, and sold off and rebuilt in such a way that gave him a WS in 2013, the 2014 team that failed was the same 2013 team that won it all. 2015 is where I think he truly failed as a G.M. He got cute and thought he could be smarter than everyone else and sold off MLB assets for other MLB assets. Porcello actually ended up being a pretty good deal but the Lackey trade was an absolute disaster.

Ben was a different kind of G.M. I think he was the right guy at that time, he kept and built up the farm but I don't think he had the balls to pull the trigger and move those assets the way DD has. DD was the right man at the right time as his record is much better on the trading side of the ball.

I disagree that Ben was handed a shit team.

But I'm about 99.9 per cent sure it was Lucchino that hired Valentine, and that move, along with the residual sourness from 2011, ensured that 2012 would be a disaster.

[moonslav59]

I disagree that Ben was handed a shit team.

But I'm about 99.9 per cent sure it was Lucchino that hired Valentine, and that move, along with the residual sourness from 2011, ensured that 2012 would be a disaster.

The philosophy of not signing 30+ year old pitchers was not Ben's idea either.

Ben was given a good team with a few very good young players but little farm depth. He had expiring contractsand many holes to fill.

Had Pablo hit at 80% of his career norm as he entered his prime and HRam hit like 2016 in 2015, Ben might still be here.


Ben was able to dump CC and Beckett, and as it turned out, dumping AGon wasn't bad either. Napoli actually did better one year.

I loved Theo, but look at some of the guys Ben inherited...

Crawford
Beckett
Youkilis
Dice-K
Ellsbury
Buchholz
Salty
Sweeney
Bard
Aviles
Was Middy still here?

I still think the Dodger dump was a top 3 or 4 Sox trade of all time. Of course, ben haters will say LL did that trade. That trade was essential to the 2013 ring. Too bad the rest of the money saved was wasted on Pablo & HRam, instead of Lester or Scherzer.

[mvp 78]

I disagree that Ben was handed a shit team.

But I'm about 99.9 per cent sure it was Lucchino that hired Valentine, and that move, along with the residual sourness from 2011, ensured that 2012 would be a disaster.

It also set the stage to completely clean house.

[a700hitter]

Ben was also left an organization that was devoid of any pitching talent, aside from Jon Lester who was an impending free agent. You could say not resigning Lester was a huge mistake but that still builds into the argument me and Notin are making.

Ben was handed a shit team, and sold off and rebuilt in such a way that gave him a WS in 2013, the 2014 team that failed was the same 2013 team that won it all. 2015 is where I think he truly failed as a G.M. He got cute and thought he could be smarter than everyone else and sold off MLB assets for other MLB assets. Porcello actually ended up being a pretty good deal but the Lackey trade was an absolute disaster.

Ben was a different kind of G.M. I think he was the right guy at that time, he kept and built up the farm but I don't think he had the balls to pull the trigger and move those assets the way DD has. DD was the right man at the right time as his record is much better on the trading side of the ball.

He was handed a team that was stacked with talent who many favored to win the AL East in 2012, and he managed to dismantle that pitching staff by low-balling Jon Lester with a 4 yr/$70 million offer and then he traded him. He gave away Lackey too who went onto help the Cardinals to 2 NL Championship Series and the Cubs to a World Championship.

[mvp 78]

He was handed a team that was stacked with talent who many favored to win the AL East in 2012, and he managed to dismantle that pitching staff by low-balling Jon Lester with a 4 yr/$70 million offer and then he traded him. He gave away Lackey too who went onto help the Cardinals to 2 NL Championship Series and the Cubs to a World Championship.

"Ben stacked the roster in 2013 to win the WS and built a great farm all on his own. It was ownership that didn't re-sign Lester, traded Lackey, signed Panda, signed Hanley, moved Xander to 3b for Drew, signed Rusney and extended Porcello."

[a700hitter]

"Ben stacked the roster in 2013 to win the WS and built a great farm all on his own. It was ownership that didn't re-sign Lester, traded Lackey, signed Panda, signed Hanley, moved Xander to 3b for Drew, signed Rusney and extended Porcello."

I had forgotten that Ben was half of a puppet— only controlled on the bad moves, but his non puppet half accomplished everything good.