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Thread: 2018 ESPN Prospects Stuff (Sox Related)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Moncada started the last third of the season and posted a +0.9 WAR in 54 games. Prorated to 162, that's 2.9. That's way better than "replacement" level.

    He's a starter.

    Again, I'm fine with not playing it halfway, but I'm also not going to deny the long term effects (not that you are).

    When we traded away almost our whole pitching staff years ago, I was fine with the idea. We were losing those guys anyway. What I disliked about the return we got was that I felt Ben played it "halfway". I felt he should have tried for higher ceiling players rather than established ML players and fully ML ready youngsters.
    not denying them - just look at them as something to fix, and holding out judgment on whether it will happen. At some point you have to make choices - and ultimately everyone is here to win. The Sox are not in a place that most good teams don't get to at some point. You have a good farm, the kids graduate and you have to replace. There seems to be more uncertainty about the replacements - but things change quickly.

    What Dombrowski has done well on that front is deal with the farm aggressively - in terms of identifying who to deal, and who to keep. We'll see what happens.

    The 2015 sell off was bad because of what you said - that was a missed opportunity.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I don't think DD was supposed to 'forsake the future'. My position has been that he had little choice but to trade a lot of prospects to upgrade the pitching staff.

    To date, DD has done next to nothing in terms of acquiring position players. It's been pitching, pitching, pitching.

    His legacy as a Red Sox GM still has a little while to play out.
    I think you give Dombrowski too much credit or leeway. He could have built a contending team without depleting the farm.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    If the sox won a title, then his plan worked
    If we win a title, Dombrowski will be justified and forgiven for trading away the farm.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    Org rankings ... #24 (down from 16) http://insider.espn.com/mlb/insider/...0-farm-systems
    Can you say 'cliff'?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I think you give Dombrowski too much credit or leeway. He could have built a contending team without depleting the farm.
    Maybe, but let's see some specifics as far as the alternative moves he could have made to upgrade the pitching.

  6. #36
    I think DD might have gone too hard too fast. When DD took over after a disastrous 2015, the AL was wide open. KC won, but they had maybe another year in their window. The Jays looked to be the class of the game but they had age and depth issues with their best pitcher (Price) hitting the market. The Yanks were receding and the Stros appeared to be rising. I think DD saw an AL that was wide open and an ALE that was ripe for the picking. He was right for two season on the ALE but he didn’t see the Indians turning into a force and the Stros turning into a super team. Nobody saw the Yankees returning as well as they have. DD, in retrospect, would probably have preferred to hold a year knowing what we know now. He’s got one year left before cap hell is going to start taking from a team that had been adding
    The rebuild is complete.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I think DD might have gone too hard too fast. When DD took over after a disastrous 2015, the AL was wide open. KC won, but they had maybe another year in their window. The Jays looked to be the class of the game but they had age and depth issues with their best pitcher (Price) hitting the market. The Yanks were receding and the Stros appeared to be rising. I think DD saw an AL that was wide open and an ALE that was ripe for the picking. He was right for two season on the ALE but he didn’t see the Indians turning into a force and the Stros turning into a super team. Nobody saw the Yankees returning as well as they have. DD, in retrospect, would probably have preferred to hold a year knowing what we know now. He’s got one year left before cap hell is going to start taking from a team that had been adding
    I see nothing wrong with DD's strategy for 2016 or 2017 considering we won the division both years. What more can you ask? We gagged in the playoffs both years, of course, and that tends to put more of a negative spin on everything.

  8. #38
    If you’re going to turn a team around quickly and create a window of competitiveness, you’d probably prefer that window was not when another team is coming into its own. Houston is going to be incredibly hard to beat this year
    The rebuild is complete.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    If you’re going to turn a team around quickly and create a window of competitiveness, you’d probably prefer that window was not when another team is coming into its own. Houston is going to be incredibly hard to beat this year
    If you're trying to plan around what other teams are doing you might as well give up. IMHO

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I think DD might have gone too hard too fast. When DD took over after a disastrous 2015, the AL was wide open. KC won, but they had maybe another year in their window. The Jays looked to be the class of the game but they had age and depth issues with their best pitcher (Price) hitting the market. The Yanks were receding and the Stros appeared to be rising. I think DD saw an AL that was wide open and an ALE that was ripe for the picking. He was right for two season on the ALE but he didnít see the Indians turning into a force and the Stros turning into a super team. Nobody saw the Yankees returning as well as they have. DD, in retrospect, would probably have preferred to hold a year knowing what we know now. Heís got one year left before cap hell is going to start taking from a team that had been adding
    If HRam does not vest, we have two years before having to chose between losing a key player of going over the major penalty limit.

    I'm not writing off 2020 either. (Porcello & Pablo drop off the ledger.)

  11. #41
    That’s without you guys getting JD
    The rebuild is complete.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Thatís without you guys getting JD
    Depends if Henry is willing to go over the second luxury tax limit for consecutive seasons.

    It's really the third limit that can be crippling, and even then, it would be crippling to seasons beginning near 2023-2024.


  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Maybe, but let's see some specifics as far as the alternative moves he could have made to upgrade the pitching.
    Yup. Of course he could have gone out and gotten any number of players instead. But who would have been better choices and what players would have been acceptable losses to use in getting them?
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  14. #44
    Well, it does seem like some of the top, recent players acquired via trade have not cost as much as Sale, Pom and Kimbrel did.

    One could possibly imagine we might have gotten more had we waited a couple years.

    (Note: I loved the Sale trade, and I recognized the need to do something to end out last place trend back then.)

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    Can you say 'cliff'?
    We have too many quality under 28 players to say that.

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