Register now to remove this ad

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45

Thread: Tom Yawkey--revisited

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    The last team to integrate is not a perfect indicator (the Yankees were 2nd to last!). But the "open secret" quota on African-American players on the roster was more problematic. He was a racist - and he was also a tremendous boon to cancer research. People are multitudes.

    One of the great thrills of Pedro and Ortiz were being the first Red Sox since Tiant to really break through the team's historic lilly-whiteness.
    A lot of the blame goes to the city. We had a number of really good african american players in the late 60's early 70's. Reggie Smith, Ben Oglivie, George Scott, Cecil Cooper. Reggie Smith was a young superstar, but the city didn't warm up to him very much, or to the others. It wasn't a very welcoming place. Reggie was one of my favorites -- a 5 tool guy and a switch hitter.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Wasn't Jackie Robinson the first African American to achieve the rank of lieutenant in the army?

    I know he was among the first admitted to Officer Candidate School (after a lengthy protest)...
    Well, the first black/american to graduate from West Point was a former slave. He graduated from the point in 1877! (not a typo). I arrived in Ledo, India in late 1944. The burma Road was just becoming passable. The buiders were mostly african/american and I believe their officers were also. They were an engineering brigade (or company)

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Hmmm.

    I'm not defending Yawkey in any way. But I would like to know more of this so called quota for African Americans.

    When I started to watch the Sox in 66 and 67 there were at least several people of color ( I include Hispanics of African decent too ) each year.

    There may have been many teams with more players of color all those years but the disparity never seemed all that great.

    I must be wrong though. Right?
    i think it was something like 4 players or something - i need to find a better link, it was stuff that i remember from reporters covering the team in the 70s ... a black ballplayer came in, then it meant one inevitably was sent down or something. Now I do think that is was not all Yawkey's personal preferences - but a read on the market.

  4. #34
    I never heard of any of that.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  5. #35
    How about Tommy Harper? (He's the reason I'm a Sox fan.)

    That wasn't the 60's either.

  6. #36

  7. #37
    Interestingly, last night I saw that MLB Network has a show about the 1971 Pittsburgh Pirates.

    On September 1, 1971 the Pirates became the first team in MLB history to field a starting nine consisting entirely of minority players.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/b...97109010.shtml

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    How about Tommy Harper? (He's the reason I'm a Sox fan.)

    That wasn't the 60's either.
    Harper would be ummm ... unkind about the racism thing in Boston

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    A lot of the blame goes to the city. We had a number of really good african american players in the late 60's early 70's. Reggie Smith, Ben Oglivie, George Scott, Cecil Cooper. Reggie Smith was a young superstar, but the city didn't warm up to him very much, or to the others. It wasn't a very welcoming place. Reggie was one of my favorites -- a 5 tool guy and a switch hitter.
    I agree with much of this, but I'm not sure "Boston" is entirely to blame. The Celtics had plenty of black players in the 50s and an entire line-up of black players in the early 60s. Also (although this is just before my time as a fan), the Boston Braves had a black player as early as 1950 (they left Boston ... in 1952? maybe someone else can tell me whether they had other black players on the team before that). I see also (to my shock!) even the Bruins integrated before the RS. Let's just say Yawkey gave in to the prevailing (or perceived?) racism of his fans. But other teams in exactly the same position did not.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jad View Post
    I agree with much of this, but I'm not sure "Boston" is entirely to blame. The Celtics had plenty of black players in the 50s and an entire line-up of black players in the early 60s. Also (although this is just before my time as a fan), the Boston Braves had a black player as early as 1950 (they left Boston ... in 1952? maybe someone else can tell me whether they had other black players on the team before that). I see also (to my shock!) even the Bruins integrated before the RS. Let's just say Yawkey gave in to the prevailing (or perceived?) racism of his fans. But other teams in exactly the same position did not.
    I wasn't making an excuse for being the last team to integrate. I was addressing the issue someone brought up about an alleged quota. Once the color line was finally broken in Boston, Dick O'Connell acquired a number of good african american players, but the town didn't welcome them with open arms... to say the least.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  11. #41
    Yeah I question the whole quota idea. I never once heard of it. At all.

    I too was a big fan of Reggie Smith. He was a center fielder but played some right field as well. One game I attended, he started in right field. I paid my $1. and sat in the center field bleachers for three innings before I was allowed to pay $.75 to cross into the right field grandstands.

    I took a seat low in the bowl just inside that alley that separated center from right. I started to watch Reggie because he was only 50-60 ft away and as I said I liked his game.

    Anyway, when he bent down and looked towards the plate with his hands on his knees, I saw a massive tubular bulge running down one of his legs.

    Either he was smuggling a cucumber like the bass player from Spinal Tap or he was hung like a fucking horse.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by bosoxmal View Post
    Good post although your "90" is out of whack. I was born in 1924, brought up in Somerville (1/2 Irish, 1/2 Italian) snd my guess is closer to 65% than 90%. On then other hand, the US Army was racist! Not integrated until Truman came along. Besiodes, more of Somerville's "racism" was toward the Jews, not the blacks.
    Dead right about the Army, into which I was born and later served. It integrated in 1948, a year after MLB integrated, and I can promise you that there were still integration and discrimination issues into the 1970's and beyond. Before 1948 the Army simply reflected American society. Interestingly, however, US Colored Troops were a significant part of the Union Army and suffered significant casualties. This might have helped the US Congress vote for the 13th amendment and later the 15th amendment which ended slavery and gave all races the vote--but not women, of course.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Interestingly, last night I saw that MLB Network has a show about the 1971 Pittsburgh Pirates.

    On September 1, 1971 the Pirates became the first team in MLB history to field a starting nine consisting entirely of minority players.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/b...97109010.shtml
    And they won the World Series that year. I imagine that helped...

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Dead right about the Army, into which I was born and later served. It integrated in 1948, a year after MLB integrated, and I can promise you that there were still integration and discrimination issues into the 1970's and beyond. Before 1948 the Army simply reflected American society. Interestingly, however, US Colored Troops were a significant part of the Union Army and suffered significant casualties. This might have helped the US Congress vote for the 13th amendment and later the 15th amendment which ended slavery and gave all races the vote--but not women, of course.
    There were colored troops in the Confederate Army, too...

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    There were colored troops in the Confederate Army, too...
    I believe that is a myth, popularized in part by such romantic depictions as Gone with the Wind, that has been largely discredited by historians. (But maybe you were being ironic.)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •