Sox starting pitching thread

[Bellhorn04]

And not using the present value thing, Scherzer's deal was for $210mill, which was the number that caused a lot of market noise.

While Washington probably saved some value by deferring money (Fangraphs estimated it was closer to $131mill than $195mill), the future of that market was not as known, either. But I'm not going to argue economics with an accountant. Washington probably did well with their financing. The real issue was the $30mill AAV they placed on starting pitching, which was a previously unbroken barrier...

MLPBA calculated it at 191.4 million.

[notin]

MLPBA calculated it at 191.4 million.

I said I am not arguing economics with an accountant...

[a700hitter]

I said I am not arguing economics with an accountant...

I am still wondering what you meant by "singing large market praises".

[notin]

I am still wondering what you meant by "singing large market praises".

Yeah maybe I got too colorful.

Basically the strategy he was proposing for running a large market team still has the same flaws, as we have seen with a few other teams. Detroit acquired talent the same way with the same guy in charge, and what happened is obvious. But even other teams have fallen into that same trap of winding up with a roster of overpriced talent, making keeping their younger players difficult beyond arbitration.

[a700hitter]

Yeah maybe I got too colorful.

Basically the strategy he was proposing for running a large market team still has the same flaws, as we have seen with a few other teams. Detroit acquired talent the same way with the same guy in charge, and what happened is obvious. But even other teams have fallen into that same trap of winding up with a roster of overpriced talent, making keeping their younger players difficult beyond arbitration.

Basically, you are saying that other big market teams have been run poorly. His point still stands. It was not acceptable the way Ben ran a big market team.

[SoxHop]

Steven Wright’s sore knee is not getting better.
“Not having great days — he’s been throwing and all that but he’s still sore, we have to see what we’re going to do next week,” said Cora. “It’s taking longer than expected. …

Left-hander Drew Pomeranz will remain with Pawtucket after another uninspiring appearance on Friday.
“We want him to go deeper in the games,” said Cora. “He’ll pitch again on Wednesday. The reports, he was OK.
“Velocity is not up. It’s been 89, 90, I think. Inconsistent with the breaking stuff. I read something (Friday) about, 3-0 count somebody swung and hit a home run. Well, they swing at 3-0 counts here, too.”

Cora on ERod
“It looks bad, but he’s moving it around, which is encouraging,” manager Alex Cora said. “We have to go through the tests and all that and see what happens.”

[notin]

Basically, you are saying that other big market teams have been run poorly. His point still stands. It was not acceptable the way Ben ran a big market team.

The thing is, it does look like a lot of the “poorly” run big market approach looks like an inevitable fallout from that method. And if the goal was to avoid that fallout, there light be an upfront price of a bad season or two.

The issue for fans is, many don’t like new ideas. “When you run a big market team, you spend money! When those players stop performing - which is totally the fault of the GM for signing the wrong guy - you spend money and trade bad player!! Losing is not acceptable!!”

And for a guy to come in and say “I think wa can be like the 1990’s Atlanta Braves, who didn’t spend a lot but we’re insanely successful,” fans then cry “No!! Not what a large market team does !! Spend money and take your blame when it fails!!”

[a700hitter]

The thing is, it does look like a lot of the “poorly” run big market approach looks like an inevitable fallout from that method. And if the goal was to avoid that fallout, there light be an upfront price of a bad season or two.

The issue for fans is, many don’t like new ideas. “When you run a big market team, you spend money! When those players stop performing - which is totally the fault of the GM for signing the wrong guy - you spend money and trade bad player!! Losing is not acceptable!!”

And for a guy to come in and say “I think wa can be like the 1990’s Atlanta Braves, who didn’t spend a lot but we’re insanely successful,” fans then cry “No!! Not what a large market team does !! Spend money and take your blame when it fails!!”

When have the Yankees finished last for 2 or 3 years in a 4 year period,,, or the Dodgers?

[moonslav59]

When have the Yankees finished last for 2 or 3 years in a 4 year period,,, or the Dodgers?

When have the Yankess won a WS since 2001?

They haven't even made the WS since 2003.

Look, the 3 last places sucked. Ben should get the blame for some of most of that, but the teams he put on the field seemed to be better than they played- kind of like last year's Sox under performances by just about everyone. The 2012, 2014 and 2015 didn't look that much different than the 2013 ring team at the start of each season.

Blaming Ben is justified, but a heck of a lot of players came up far short of expectations.

The results are what they are, and last places finishes suck more than 4th or 3rd place finishes, but maybe my Sox fandom from the early 70's to 2003 has influenced my outlook.

I'd have died and gone to heaven for just 1 ring, even if it was surrounded by 10 years of last place finishes.

[Bellhorn04]

When have the Yankess won a WS since 2001?

They haven't even made the WS since 2003.

Sorry buddy, as much as I'd like to forget it too, they won in 2009.

[moonslav59]

Sorry buddy, as much as I'd like to forget it too, they won in 2009.

Oooops.

Still, Ben has a ring since before the last Yankee ring.

[a700hitter]

When have the Yankess won a WS since 2001?

They haven't even made the WS since 2003.

Look, the 3 last places sucked. Ben should get the blame for some of most of that, but the teams he put on the field seemed to be better than they played- kind of like last year's Sox under performances by just about everyone. The 2012, 2014 and 2015 didn't look that much different than the 2013 ring team at the start of each season.

Blaming Ben is justified, but a heck of a lot of players came up far short of expectations.

The results are what they are, and last places finishes suck more than 4th or 3rd place finishes, but maybe my Sox fandom from the early 70's to 2003 has influenced my outlook.

I'd have died and gone to heaven for just 1 ring, even if it was surrounded by 10 years of last place finishes.

The point being discussed was whether or not it was an acceptable progression for a big market team to go through an abysmal period like the Red Sox did with the last place finishes. I don't think it is.

[a700hitter]

Oooops.

Still, Ben has a ring since before the last Yankee ring.

And you still missed the point being discussed.

[cp176]

When have the Yankess won a WS since 2001?

They haven't even made the WS since 2003.

Look, the 3 last places sucked. Ben should get the blame for some of most of that, but the teams he put on the field seemed to be better than they played- kind of like last year's Sox under performances by just about everyone. The 2012, 2014 and 2015 didn't look that much different than the 2013 ring team at the start of each season.

Blaming Ben is justified, but a heck of a lot of players came up far short of expectations.

The results are what they are, and last places finishes suck more than 4th or 3rd place finishes, but maybe my Sox fandom from the early 70's to 2003 has influenced my outlook.

I'd have died and gone to heaven for just 1 ring, even if it was surrounded by 10 years of last place finishes.

I've never been able to understand this. I'm glad that we have won our championships but since I have always felt that in this modern era when you have to play what seems like 4000 playoff games, you really have to be lucky to win the big one. It is like playing another mini-season. I want a team that competes and has a chance every year. I will never be tolerant of finishing last so that we can - repeat after me - wait till next year. The early to mid 60's sucked for me. No excuse for a large market team like the Sox to ever finish last. I want them to compete and if they should win it is all good.

[vegasbob]

With Rodriguez's injury being " serious" even without surgery, DD will be forced to chase down a veteran starter who can eat some innings and hold the fort through July , August and September. I now think the LH reliever and a RH starter outweigh any concerns about a second baseman, particulalry if Phillips shows any life working his way back up. This was dscussed a few weeks ago and some thought pursuing another starter was a non-starter. Not so.