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Thread: Brock Holt -- our answer at second base?

  1. #1
    Fight the Hate Dojji's Avatar
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    Brock Holt -- our answer at second base?

    Reviewing the options we might have for 2B in trade, one of the things that jumped out at me is that in terms of raw slash stats, not too many of them are clearly superior to the guy we have out there right now. Of the guys out there available for trade (meaning, not guys who we merely think should be available like LeMahieu and Dozier but players actually being dangled) the only obviously superior options are Cabrera and Machado.

    Holt isn't a superstar by any means but I certainly don't mind him hitting 8th and 9th, or even occasionally second. He gives us the luxury of having a replacement level guy who can make contact with the baseball and not embarrass himself with his glove. This prevents us from making stupid desperation trades to further drain our farm, and if we need to save our ammunition to bring in a durable lower rotation starter instead, he gives us that luxury too, since he can provide ~1 WAR level coverage at a position where it can actually be pretty hard to find guys much above replacement level.

    In other words, he gives us options to limit the damage of what IMHO is looking like a but of a seller's market at the deadline. And it's worth pondering given the injuries to our rotation whether it might be the course of wisdom to pass on filling the adequately-covered hole on the roster and move towards filling other more obvious holes, like 5th starter.

    If things fall through and we can't upgrade at 2B, I'm certainly comfortable with rolling with Holt and upgrading other parts of the team instead. I doubt I'm the only one here. Which since it's a serious possibility if the prices on the trade market don't come down a bit, I think it's fair to consider the possibility that that is exactly what happens.
    Last edited by Dojji; 07-17-2018 at 11:31 PM.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  2. #2
    Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

    Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  3. #3
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    The priorities are in the pitching department. Holt is a keeper but not as an everyday player. We will not be able to fill every position where we have a need so maybe Phillips comes in to help for this year if he shows up in AAA. Otherwise a starter is needed and one or two relief pitchers, letting our worst go. Catcher is also still up in the air until later in August. If we can get by until then, Vaz will become available and the need will be reduced. If Leon is injured in the interim, we would be forced to act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

    Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.
    I love under the radar, minor moves like this. He seems very motivated too.

  5. #5
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

    Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.
    This.
    other names i have posted under: none

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    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

    Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.
    Who goes to make room for Phillips?

  7. #7
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

    Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.
    Holt worked out heavily this past off season and added bulk. It may have helped him build stamina.

    I've been suggesting we trade Holt for years, but he's earning his right to continue playing a lot and to show the endurance question has been solved.

    It's nice to have Phillips as depth, but I'm thinking we should keep things as is, for now.

  8. #8
    Legend S5Dewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Holt worked out heavily this past off season and added bulk. It may have helped him build stamina.

    I've been suggesting we trade Holt for years, but he's earning his right to continue playing a lot and to show the endurance question has been solved.

    It's nice to have Phillips as depth, but I'm thinking we should keep things as is, for now.
    This.

    Holt's role never was supposed to be what it is now that Pedey's out for the season (?). No, he's not an all-star defensively but he's batting just under .300 with an OPS of ~.750. Who are we going to trade for that's available and we can afford who's going to be any better?
    It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Who goes to make room for Phillips?
    Probably Lin.
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  10. #10
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    I agree with every post in this thread.

  11. #11
    Fight the Hate Dojji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.
    He doesn't have to. Teams carry backup middle infielders for a reason. MI's get rested more regularly than most other position players, and we have some good replacement level guys like Lin and Nunez, and possibly Phillips down the road.

    But if he can play 3-4 games out of 5 and leave the rest to the bench guys, that's probably good enough to provide at least some value out of the second base position.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  12. #12
    All-Star SoxnCycles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I agree with every post in this thread.
    I don't know.

    Slash's last post is very controversial.
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "When you're dead, you don't know you're dead.
    It's only difficult for other people.

    It works the same way for stupid."

  13. #13
    It is hard to get excited about Phillips. He didn't play particularly well for the Angels last season. His OPS+ has been under 100 for several seasons in a row. In fact, you have to go back to 2011 to find a season in which his OPS+ was above 100. His defense has declined. He is 37 and so he isn't getting better--he is getting worse. He doesn't have exceptional splits against lefties (over the last 3 seasons), thus a Holt/Phillips platoon doesn't seem like a good idea with Phillips playing exclusively against lefties.

    True, Phillips is probably better than Nunez, but that is because Nunez is a complete train wreck.

    Holt is better than Phillips and Nunez, but I would look to upgrade the offense and save Holt for that utility role. I would trade for Cabrera. The difference between Cabrera, on the one hand, and Nunez and Phillips, on the other, is night and day. Over the last four seasons, Cabrera's OPS+ has been over 100. He is 32 years old--still young enough. Cabrera would give the Red Sox some extra offense on those days when Betts and Martinez are not carrying the club. Cabrera would be a high priority upgrade; not only should the Red Sox trade for him--they should resign him in the offseason.

    It is tempting to release Nunez, he has certainly earned it, but he has 4 million coming to him next year and can play several different positions (albeit not that well). Nunez goes to the bench -- no more starts for Nunez.

    The key isn't to give Holt more or less playing time, the key is to demote Nunez to the bench, trade for Cabrera, and play Holt at various positions, giving the starters a day of rest and keeping them fresh.

    The Mets have two players the Red Sox could use--Wheeler and Cabrera. Get it done, Dave.
    Last edited by Fan_since_Boggs; 07-18-2018 at 12:11 PM.

  14. #14
    I think it is almost a certainty that Phillips will be up soon. Then , either Lin or a bullpen arm goes down.

  15. #15
    Fight the Hate Dojji's Avatar
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    There's a distinct possibility that Lin is better than Phillips at this point in their respective careers

    I am not excited by the onset of the Brandon Phillips era.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

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