The future of baseball

[Bellhorn04]

Is the great game of baseball in trouble?

Certainly the game is still extremely popular and the men who own major league franchises or otherwise have their fingers in the financial pie are still making tremendous piles of money, as are the players.

But there are some indicators that its popularity is on the decline-downturns in attendance and most recently the TV ratings for the game’s ultimate showcase, the World Series.

There have also been some rumblings and grumblings in various quarters, including right here on this forum, about the quality of the game itself as sporting competition and as entertainment.

Let’s enumerate what seem to be the most widespread and most recent complaints.

1) The games are too long, because of all the time between pitches, the mound visits, the pitching changes, and now the replay reviews.

2) The game has become dominated by stat geeks and computer analysts. They decide who the best players are, who the best players for the money are, and how to win more games.

3) All the fielding shifts are annoying and frustrating to watch.

4) Too much emphasis on the long ball. Too many hitters taking an all or nothing approach. Increase that launch angle so you can launch the ball over that damn shift and into the seats.

5) Thanks in large part to 4), there is not enough emphasis on the finer points of the game.

6) Bullpen games are now a thing, and the pitching ‘opener’ is a thing. The idea of a starter trying to throw a complete game now is a joke. You don’t really expect any of your pitchers to attempt to make it through the order three times, do you?

7) Two leagues with different rules, with opposing views on whether the pitcher trying to hit and run is a good idea. This creates a mess when the two leagues play against each other.

8) Umpires continue to call balls strikes and strikes balls at an unacceptable rate. Why not try robot umps?

So what should be done to improve the game? What CAN be done?

Will the game start to show the impact of declining popularity on the bottom line and will that motivate the powers to do something about it?

[Bellhorn04]

MLBTR seems to think baseball is still on the upswing financially, judging by their predictions for Harper and Machado:

Harper 14 years 420 million
Machado 13 years 390 million

[moonslav59]

Not only are owners making huge money off baseball, the value of their teams, when they go to sell them, are extremely higher than when they bought them. That gives them the sense that they can spend to win.

Then, you might have some owners who don't care if their team loses money, they just want the status as a winning owner in the sports world.

[moonslav59]

Three steps MLB can take for better pace of play

1) Enforce existing rules for how long a pitcher can hold a ball in between pitches.
YES!

2) No more expanded rosters in September.
OK, but expand the roster to 26.

3) Keep the shift!!
Yes, more outs!

Also,DH for all.

[notin]

Three steps MLB can take for better pace of play

1) Enforce existing rules for how long a pitcher can hold a ball in between pitches.
YES!

2) No more expanded rosters in September.
OK, but expand the roster to 26.

3) Keep the shift!!
Yes, more outs!

Also,DH for all.

25 players after September 1. If MLB adopts some sort of “only dress 25 players”, I’m ok with that.

But when Bruce Bochy, for example, adds 6 relievers to his bullpen and makes 3 to 4 pitching changes per inning for multiple innings, he does go a long way to making the game difficult to watch.

Also the shift speeds up games since it mitigates the need for a LOOGY. What takes less time?

1. Manager to walk out to mound and take ball from pitcher
2. Lefty reliever to come in from bullpen
3. Warm up pitches.
4. Full at bat from lefty hitter
5. Manager to remove LOOGY by repeating steps 1 through 3.

Or

1. 3 infielders to simultaneously walk about 40 feet each
2. And then after the at bat, walk back.

I’ll take the latter option...

[moonslav59]

25 players after September 1. If MLB adopts some sort of “only dress 25 players”, I’m ok with that.

But when Bruce Bochy, for example, adds 6 relievers to his bullpen and makes 3 to 4 pitching changes per inning for multiple innings, he does go a long way to making the game difficult to watch.

Also the shift speeds up games since it mitigates the need for a LOOGY. What takes less time?

1. Manager to walk out to mound and take ball from pitcher
2. Lefty reliever to come in from bullpen
3. Warm up pitches.
4. Full at bat from lefty hitter
5. Manager to remove LOOGY by repeating steps 1 through 3.

Or

1. 3 infielders to simultaneously walk about 40 feet each
2. And then after the at bat, walk back.

I’ll take the latter option...

Agreed.

[Jasonbay44]

I think there needs to be a DH in both leagues, the fact we have different rules for two different leagues is incredibly stupid, especially with inter-league happening year round. Pitchers aren't paid for their hitting, and it just risks injuries. I know a lot of NL purists don't wan this to happen, but I guarantee if we asked the Nationals, Dodgers, Cubs and etc, they don't want Scherzer, Kershaw, Lester and etc hitting or running the bases. Its just absurd how different the rules are in two leagues, playing the same game, that consistently play each other. Perfect example, E-Rod in the World Series, I don't think this dude has ever run the bases before.

Robot umps need to be a thing, if the MLB is going to insist on keeping incompetent idiots like Angel Hernandez and not only employing them, but letting them call PLAYOFF Games, it is a huge issue. He single handily probably added 30 minutes to that ALDS game against the Yankees by messing up calls at 1B and putting us all through the replay bullshit.

But obviously, the biggest issue is time. If you were to sit down and watch the Red Sox in the world series this year, you would need about 4 hours, and the games don't start till 8 pm. I think it is pretty unrealistic to get a younger generation interested in 4 hours of watching a game that lasts until after midnight, especially on school nights during the fall, or even in the summer, with the ridiculous amounts of activities kids have between camps/practices/lessons, etc.

Also, I don't think the MLB does a good enough job of marketing its true star players. The NBA and NFL do a much better job of this. You probably cant find a person in America male or female who doesn't know who Lebron and Tom Brady are, but I know a ridiculous amount of non baseball fans who've never even heard of Mookie Betts or Mike Trout.

[notin]

Also, I don't think the MLB does a good enough job of marketing its true star players. The NBA and NFL do a much better job of this. You probably cant find a person in America male or female who doesn't know who Lebron and Tom Brady are, but I know a ridiculous amount of non baseball fans who've never even heard of Mookie Betts or Mike Trout.

But a lot of people have heard of Bryce Harper, who is well on his way to being the most famous baseball player since Reggie Jackson...

[bertha]

Loving this thread, I think this is a very interesting discussion

[Northern Star]

I'll tell you what - sign me up for this mini HR derby to decide tied games - they need to put this in for regular season games next season. This is nothing soccer and hockey don't already do, and pitching arms are too valuable to be playing up to 20 innings in one game. Instant drama and excitement.

[Kimmi]

I am wondering how baseball compares to the other major sports in terms declining popularity/viewership. I think some of it is the sign of our times, in particular, the instant gratification and instant feedback that our younger generation seems to be used to in these technology prevalent times.

Are long time, older fans being turned off from the game, or is it more that the sport is not picking up "new fans".

IMO, the sport is beautiful and extremely entertaining the way it is. I think the analytics have enhanced the enjoyment and understanding of the sport. I don't like the 2 different rules in the different leagues, and I'm not particularly a fan of the shift, but I don't think those things are ruining baseball. Will robot umps really increase viewership?

Making some changes to the sport, as Bell listed above, might help some. But I don't think that is really going to solve the problem, whatever the problem seems to be. Basically, I think that parents, role models, etc. need to instill a love for the game into their children like my parents did with me and my brothers when we were growing up.

[Maxbialystock]

I am wondering how baseball compares to the other major sports in terms declining popularity/viewership. I think some of it is the sign of our times, in particular, the instant gratification and instant feedback that our younger generation seems to be used to in these technology prevalent times.

Are long time, older fans being turned off from the game, or is it more that the sport is not picking up "new fans".

IMO, the sport is beautiful and extremely entertaining the way it is. I think the analytics have enhanced the enjoyment and understanding of the sport. I don't like the 2 different rules in the different leagues, and I'm not particularly a fan of the shift, but I don't think those things are ruining baseball. Will robot umps really increase viewership?

Making some changes to the sport, as Bell listed above, might help some. But I don't think that is really going to solve the problem, whatever the problem seems to be. Basically, I think that parents, role models, etc. need to instill a love for the game into their children like my parents did with me and my brothers when we were growing up.

I am actually amazed that MLB, which is mostly seen on TV or online and not in person, has done as well as it has. I think a huge number of Americans enjoy actually playing the game--t-ball, softball, little league, over-60 leagues, whatever--because we are on the field and involved. To a degree that experience is repeated when we actually go to a ball park to see a game.

But on TV we become aware that there's a whole lot of dead time in MLB. Not just all the little quirks and mannerisms of pitchers and batters which delay the game unnecessarily, but even when the ball is in play.

I don't have the numbers, but if we assume 240 total pitches are thrown in a game--that's when the ball is in play--less than half involve anyone other than the pitcher, catcher, and batter. Relatedly, it occurs to me that showing that rectangle of the strike zone is probably a neat idea for TV viewing because we can all rant at any call by the ump we don't like.

However we react to pitches inside or outside the strike zone, that rectangle keeps us focused on the time-honored confrontation between pitcher and batter and blissfully unaware that the other 7 defensive players are just sort of out there and the other 8 offensive players are just sort of in the dugout. If there are baserunners, sabermetrics now tells all managers to ensure that their baserunners do as little as possible to advance on their own: stealing bases is for dummies only. Oh, and let's not forget that most pitchers will throw to 1B at least once when a baserunner is there, with maybe 1 in 30 resulting in a pickoff.

Contrast the above with hockey, football, soccer, and basketball--all sports which involve every player on both teams (within the allowed limits on players on the field or court) throughout the time when the ball is officially in play.

I think most fans (like me) who basically only watch games on TV, have to buy into the notion that baseball is centered around that confrontation between hitter and pitcher. On the one hand, most of us remember what Ted Williams, one of the greatest hitters ever, said, that hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely is the most difficult skill in all of sports. On the other, we have to appreciate how very, very difficult it is for pitchers to throw hard, throw accurately (about as accurately as a knife thrower from 20 feet) from 66 feet, and throw with a variety of spins and motions. I frankly like that kind of baseball, and it is definitely one of the reasons why I got so mad when Cash pulled Snell. To me the freaking software, like a deus ex machina, had inserted itself into a great game and denied real baseball fans from watching baseball at its finest.

Oh, and I do like this thread and it's title. And I had almost no parental influence on my baseball fandom. It was fate: I spent 15 months, two baseball seasons, ages 12-13 in West Springfield MA, while my dad was overseas, and I got to listen to every Sox game called by Curt Gowdy, with baseball cards in hand. 1953-54 were not good Sox years, but 1953 was the year Williams came back from the Korean War in August and ended up hitting .407 with 13 home runs and 34 RBIs in 37 games and 110 at bats. I did not become a real fanatic until settling, age 60, in N. Virginia and realized I could get all the Sox games on satellite tv (later verizon fios).

[Kimmi]

One thing that is a problem is that it is just too darn expensive to take a family of four out to the ballpark for a major league game. It's not something I can afford to do on a regular basis. That said, there's always minor league games, which are reasonably priced.

[Youk Of The Nation]

2) The game has become dominated by stat geeks and computer analysts. They decide who the best players are, who the best players for the money are, and how to win more games.

Trying to win more games?! Unacceptable! What kind of monsters are these people?

[Northern Star]

NL needs the DH, which means longer games, which means a pitching clock.

I get sick of the length of some ABs with countless foul offs. Don't really want to tinker with the format of an AB though. That would be a drastic change to the game. I wouldn't be 100% against reducing the game length to seven innings, which obviously would be a huge change. I'm not saying I'm 100% for it, either.

Way too many stats. The media likes to tell us stuff like this was the first time there have been champagne celebrations in the opposing team's locker room on back to back days. Who gives a shit?

The real problem regards the length of games is that baseball was invented before tv and smartphones. Those two things have shortened our collective attention spans.

Also, MLB needs to market their stars better. No one cares about them.