RIP President George H.W. Bush

[Sox75]

Praising & memorializing a decent (not great) president, is "sneaking it in, or "propagandizing?"
I guess I get it? This is sadly where these things go. I suppose I brought this on by calling him "great." I suppose it was hyperbole born out of nostalgia & a bit of sadness?
Again ..... I felt the same when Ted Kennedy & Daniel Patric Moynihan passed, but I guess that too is seen as sneaking in propoganda in this new age of hyper political sensitivity?
Again again .... I get it! We've all let politics get out of control, especially on the internet.

My apologies! Sincerely! I assure you that my original intent was not to "sneak in pro-Bush propoganda." I wasn't thrilled with his presidency by 1992, and almost wanted Clinton to win....
Anyway, I am guilty if nostalgia, as I always thought he was a very decent man.

So, go ahead & remove it before somebody takes it over the top on either 'side,' and drags it into the political gutter.

[moonslav59]

This is like starting a thread about Giancarlo Stanton and saying " Let's keep baseball out of it ." Huh ? That said , I would hesitate to call any politician a " great man or great woman ." Politics is a business, a dirty business at that . A power struggle. It is wise for the TalkSox mods to prohibit political stuff. Regrettably, someone will always try to sneak it in.

Agreed.

Why do we need a thread about someone not related to the Sox on this site?

Not allowing these threads is probably a better way to keep political comments out of this forum.

If someone praises or calls someone decent or wonderful, to me that is the same as saying otherwise.

[cp176]

It was an off topic forum for God's sake. If you don't like a comment, don't react to it. Pretty simple! It kind of sounds like a thread where people bring up topics about something other than baseball. I don't think that the censors need to be brought in on this one.

[illinoisredsox]

Agreed.

Why do we need a thread about someone not related to the Sox on this site?

Not allowing these threads is probably a better way to keep political comments out of this forum.

If someone praises or calls someone decent or wonderful, to me that is the same as saying otherwise.

That last line is a very sad attitude to have.

Oh, since he captained those Yale baseball teams that went to the first couple of college World Series, it even has a baseball aspect to it, even if it is the off-topic forum.

[Northern Star]

Remember, the caption is "just have fun..."

[moonslav59]

That last line is a very sad attitude to have.

Oh, since he captained those Yale baseball teams that went to the first couple of college World Series, it even has a baseball aspect to it, even if it is the off-topic forum.

There's nothing sad about my attitude. I'm trying hard to not get political, but I'm not going to let this go unanswered.

What's sad is people calling him decent and wonderful and keeping the myth and propaganda going.

Again, this thread should not be allowed on this forum, but as long as people are allowed to express their faulty views, I'm going to speak the truth out.

[Sox75]

Good point Northern Star.

I definitely didn't start this to have it become a point of contention!

I guess to mourn & celebrate the momentous life of a U.S. president...

That's really it. No political intent. Kinda like when Tim Russert passed. I may not agree with him politically, but I was floored. I love politics, & have watched it with my dad for almost 50 years. I disagree with so many of the old guard, but I have thoroughly & completely enjoyed sharing the history & politics every day of my life.

Dad went into memory care this summer while i was visiting. I had no idea i was having my last semi - cogent political (or otherwise) discussions with him. He loved politics & all socratic debate. What fun it used to be! Just flew back on Thanksgiving day to move him to a more appropriate memory care unit in Western Mass. Both parents now... $15,000 / month, & insurance doesn't cover a nickel of it. Perhaps that's the thread I should start?

I hope those days of literate discussions on matters of import are not gone forever. I fear we are losing our ability to rationally, thoughtfully, & respectfully discuss almost anything if controversy?

I've been as guilty as anybody, as I used to embrace politics as a blood sport for fun. That was a mistake, as it usually went too far. Still, we have got to find a way to discuss important things again with respect.

Anyway, I'm sorry this was perceived as political. I really wasn't meaning for that to happen.

Let's either end my thread, or keep it away from personal attacks or harsh comments to each other. We can save that stuff for the Red Sox discussions?

[Sox75]

Again, one of my favorite things about H.W. Bush is his 25 year close friendship with Bill Clinton. Sure, the Far-Right still hates Bill, but I just feel sorry for people who hold onto that type of hatred. The other cross-Party relationship to blossom out of the 1992 presidential Election? Mary Matlin & James Carville. Two POLAR political oposites, who fell in love. What a great story! Bill & George? Two polar political opposites who truly loved eachother.

We could all take a lesson from these two! We don't have to agree with either politically to respect & learn from both men. Both presidents.

[Northern Star]

I think this thread is an example of how far apart people are nowadays - at least, how far apart they FEEL. Whether it's the media or certain politicians, the lines have been drawn and the middle has been hollowed out. My father in law and brother in law did not spend Thanksgiving together and probably won't spend Christmas together either because they're entrenched in a no-win political argument and neither refuses to budge an inch.

For myself, I have my opinions, but I always admit that I could be wrong. I don't think either side is completely right or completely wrong. I loathe the "my way or the highway" types.

We need more discussions, and civil ones at that. We are probably not as far apart as we seem. [and by "we," I obviously don't mean here on this board.]

[Sox75]

I think this thread is an example of how far apart people are nowadays - at least, how far apart they FEEL. Whether it's the media or certain politicians, the lines have been drawn and the middle has been hollowed out. My father in law and brother in law did not spend Thanksgiving together and probably won't spend Christmas together either because they're entrenched in a no-win political argument and neither refuses to budge an inch.

For myself, I have my opinions, but I always admit that I could be wrong. I don't think either side is completely right or completely wrong. I loathe the "my way or the highway" types.

We need more discussions, and civil ones at that. We are probably not as far apart as we seem. [and by "we," I obviously don't mean here on this board.]

SO TRUE! It is truly STUNNING & SAD just how far apart we seem!

For the most part, we avoid politics with our friends, neighbors, in-laws, family, and we focus on how much we love each other. We recognize the good in those we love, & ignore the stupid hyper-political stuff going on today. We KNOW that those in our circles have VASTLY different political views, but we overlook that bullshit because the relationships are what REALLY matter!

A close relationship is NEVER worth a bullshit political argument!

BUT somehow, we impute bad motives & nepharious intent in strangers we disagree with? It happens regularly on BOTH sides. We don't just assume our political adversary is wrong, now adays, we presume they are a bad person?

Very sad! We need to change this. It won't happen here on this site, but we need to change the way we view the other side. People on the other side.

Now. . . Do I still LOVE to mix it up politically, in the right company? ABSOLUTELY! Now that's just fun!

[illinoisredsox]

There's nothing sad about my attitude. I'm trying hard to not get political, but I'm not going to let this go unanswered.

What's sad is people calling him decent and wonderful and keeping the myth and propaganda going.

Again, this thread should not be allowed on this forum, but as long as people are allowed to express their faulty views, I'm going to speak the truth out.

"If someone praises or calls someone decent or wonderful, to me that is the same as saying otherwise."

Your words, quoted verbatim.

So any praise about anyone about anything means the opposite in your worldview. I misspoke, that's not a sad attitude, that's a sick attitude.

[moonslav59]

I haven't made any personal attacks.

I've asked that this thread be ended before it gets political.

I've tried my hardest not to get political, but we're talking about a politician, and to me, part of our problem is how we glorify them and gloss over so much of the truth about so many choices made. Of course, there are many good deeds done by almost everyone. I did not intend to dwell on negative things in this time or mourning, but to me, I think it is just plain wrong to call these guys (not just HW) decent or wonderful, without at least some qualifiers attached.

I won't say anything more, and I didn't mean think I implied Sox75 was intentionally trying to be political, but anytime you use an adjective with politician, you can expect a rebuttal.

[moonslav59]

"If someone praises or calls someone decent or wonderful, to me that is the same as saying otherwise."

Your words, quoted verbatim.

So any praise about anyone about anything means the opposite in your worldview. I misspoke, that's not a sad attitude, that's a sick attitude.

I said I wasn't going to say anything more, and now you make it personal.

That is not how I meant that and my context should have been clear. I meant it is a political opinion to call any politician wonderful and decent just like it is a political opinion to call any politician the opposite.

Out of respect, I did not give my opinion other than to say, I did not think he was decent or wonderful. My point was that my opinion is on equal footing of Sox 75's. Both are political opinions based on what we think is right or wrong or good or bad. If that is sick to you, then so be it. To me, it's sick to praising almost any world leader or politician. This is not about HW.

[Sox75]

That is why I qualified it by saying nice things about those on the other side. Lots of good and decent people on both sides, but unfortunately NONE of them can avoid political landmines, especially during a long political career.

I don't think it's all that political to say that there are some wonderful folks on both sides. I hate the red-meat politics being served up to both political poles. The Far-Left & the Far-Right.

Despite their personal sins, Kennedy, Clinton, Obama, Reagan, & many others will always be considered "Great" & historic presidents by at least 1/2 to 60% of the country! For many good reasons. Sure, that can obviously be debated, but I won't do it on their passing. I think Kennedy's relative greatness is beyond debate, but that too can be debated. Most would agree that Carter is a truly good man, but a so so president? Idk???
Many would say that Reagan had a great presidency. I would agree, but understand many would point to scandal.

Anyway, Bush seems by all accounts, including Colin Powell & so many others today, to have been an incredibly decent man. I would tend to agree. Sorry you don't, but I'm sure you have your reasons for thinking otherwise.

I don't bring up these other politicians for a debate. That would be a cluster fuck! I bring them up to say that they will all deserve a little respect upon their passing.

My post was simply paying my respects. That's it. Not political, & I appreciate you saying so.

[moonslav59]

That is why I qualified it by saying nice things about those on the other side. Lots of good and decent people on both sides, but unfortunately NONE of them can avoid political landmines, especially during a long political career.

I don't think it's all that political to say that there are some wonderful folks on both sides. I hate the red-meat politics being served up to both political poles. The Far-Left & the Far-Right.

Despite their personal sins, Kennedy, Clinton, Obama, Reagan, & many others will always be considered "Great" & historic presidents by at least 1/2 to 60% of the country! For many good reasons. Sure, that can obviously be debated, but I won't do it on their passing. I think Kennedy's relative greatness is beyond debate, but that too can be debated. Most would agree that Carter is a truly good man, but a so so president? Idk???
Many would say that Reagan had a great presidency. I would agree, but understand many would point to scandal.

Anyway, Bush seems by all accounts, including Colin Powell & so many others today, to have been an incredibly decent man. I would tend to agree. Sorry you don't, but I'm sure you have your reasons for thinking otherwise.

I don't bring up these other politicians for a debate. That would be a cluster fuck! I bring them up to say that they will all deserve a little respect upon their passing.

My post was simply paying my respects. That's it. Not political, & I appreciate you saying so.

In no way do I have any hard feeling towards you. If you want, I'll send you a personal message with some details for a better understanding on my perspective, but I really would prefer to not talk politics on this site.