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Thread: The Pen

  1. #2956
    I happen to remember Sox fans drooling over Brasier last year and thinking he’d be nails over the offseason. And I kept having to remind you guys that his xFIP was higher and his stuff/command got him banished to the Japanese minor leagues just a season before. He was a pumpkin that was integral in a title run. Expecting him to fill a major role in your pen from day 1 was a foreseeable disaster. Regression was inevitable

  2. #2957
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I happen to remember Sox fans drooling over Brasier last year and thinking he’d be nails over the offseason. And I kept having to remind you guys that his xFIP was higher and his stuff/command got him banished to the Japanese minor leagues just a season before. He was a pumpkin that was integral in a title run. Expecting him to fill a major role in your pen from day 1 was a foreseeable disaster. Regression was inevitable
    Whatever.

    There were plenty of people out here who couldn’t believe anyone put any faith in 30IP from Brasier...

  3. #2958
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    At the end of the season, we'll probably be able to say that if Dombrowski had done a better job with the pen we would have been in the Wild Card game.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  4. #2959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    At the end of the season, we'll probably be able to say that if Dombrowski had done a better job with the pen we would have been in the Wild Card game.
    Of course you have to find a way to negate the contributions of Steve Pearce...

  5. #2960
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Of course you have to find a way to negate the contributions of Steve Pearce...
    IMHO it's on both DD and JH if they decided it was Pearce or a reliever.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

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  6. #2961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    IMHO it's on both DD and JH if they decided it was Pearce or a reliever.
    1) It does appear that was the decision. 2) We don’t know how involved Henry gets, but we do know Dombrowski is involved in these decisions...

  7. #2962
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    1) It does appear that was the decision. 2) We don’t know how involved Henry gets, but we do know Dombrowski is involved in these decisions...
    The Pearce signing came before the Eovaldi signing, right?
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  8. #2963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    The Pearce signing came before the Eovaldi signing, right?
    Yes. I don’t think Pearce had much e get along interest...

  9. #2964
    The uncompensated loss of Kimbrel and Kelly greatly harmed the bullpen . Not only the closer position , but the overall depth as well . The idea that we would be fine with what we had left was an error . This is not second guessing .

  10. #2965
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgalehouse View Post
    The uncompensated loss of Kimbrel and Kelly greatly harmed the bullpen . Not only the closer position , but the overall depth as well . The idea that we would be fine with what we had left was an error . This is not second guessing .
    Plenty of blame to go around from DD through Cora though some of the players:
    - DD for simply following his usual pen MO
    - DD for overpaying for Nate and for signing fat ass Pearce at all
    - Cora for his ST plan for pitchers that just based on Sale was a FAIL
    - who knows what the fuck plan LaVangie had. He's a catcher!
    - Fat Ass Pearce who simply proved himself to be fat ass Pearce
    - JD and Mookie clearly suffering from early season distractions that should not have been distractions at all

    Kudos to X, Rafi, Vaz, Work and Erod with special emphasis on X who is now the clubhouse leader of this team. You can have the rest of them top to bottom in this organization at least as it relates to their 2019 "effort"
    Last edited by jung; 09-01-2019 at 09:58 AM.

  11. #2966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    At the end of the season, we'll probably be able to say that if Dombrowski had done a better job with the pen we would have been in the Wild Card game.
    I disagree. No reasonable amount of bullpen help was going to make much of a difference given how shitty our SP was this year. Our pen actually had a lower ERA than our SPs: 4.29 v 4.99. If the SP was good we would be in the playoff hunt no matter what DD did with the pen.

  12. #2967
    Legend S5Dewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    I disagree. No reasonable amount of bullpen help was going to make much of a difference given how shitty our SP was this year. Our pen actually had a lower ERA than our SPs: 4.29 v 4.99. If the SP was good we would be in the playoff hunt no matter what DD did with the pen.
    Ya. I believe this is it. If the Sox were getting six or seven innings and an average ERA of ~4.0 regularly from the SP it would take a lot of pressure (and INNINGS) off the 'pen. While we don't have knowledge of how the BP would have performed in a better situation we can probably assume that they would have performed better given fewer innings.

    If you buy into that^ the next logical step is to think that all this hate for DD is misguided. He did exactly what a GM is supposed to do: He assembled a team that should have been favored to win the ALE. Yes, he could have done 'more' at the deadline but by that point he would have been bringing in a garden hose to help the fire department. The damage was done and even if by some miracle the garden hose had helped put out the fire the house was probably still going to be ruined. One garden hose isn't going to make much of a difference.

    IMO this season's lack of success lies on the backs of the starting pitching. I'm not suggesting a lack of effort from any of them. It's just what it is.
    It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
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  13. #2968
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    Quote Originally Posted by S5Dewey View Post
    Ya. I believe this is it. If the Sox were getting six or seven innings and an average ERA of ~4.0 regularly from the SP it would take a lot of pressure (and INNINGS) off the 'pen. While we don't have knowledge of how the BP would have performed in a better situation we can probably assume that they would have performed better given fewer innings.

    If you buy into that^ the next logical step is to think that all this hate for DD is misguided. He did exactly what a GM is supposed to do: He assembled a team that should have been favored to win the ALE. Yes, he could have done 'more' at the deadline but by that point he would have been bringing in a garden hose to help the fire department. The damage was done and even if by some miracle the garden hose had helped put out the fire the house was probably still going to be ruined. One garden hose isn't going to make much of a difference.

    IMO this season's lack of success lies on the backs of the starting pitching. I'm not suggesting a lack of effort from any of them. It's just what it is.
    It’s one thing to prioritize a rotation over the bullpen. It’s another to prioritize a backup 1b over the bullpen...

  14. #2969
    The disappointing performance from the rotation was certainly not anticipated . The bullpen problems were very much expected . Or at least should have been . A strong, deep bullpen can , at least to some extent, compensate for a weak rotation. In any case , expecting to consistently get seven good innings from your starter is not realistic in today's game .

  15. #2970
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    It’s one thing to prioritize a rotation over the bullpen. It’s another to prioritize a backup 1b over the bullpen...
    I totally agree, but we ended up playing our third string 1Bman much of the year.

    Innings at 1B this year:

    490 Moreland
    401 Chavis
    138 Travis
    130 Pearce
    54 Vaz
    18 Holt
    1 Swihart

    Moreland has played 39% of the innings at 1B, this year.

    That being said, it's highly doubtful that had Moreland played 70% of the innings and Pearce 30% we'd be any better off. Spending more on the pen made more sense then and now.


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