The Pen

[moonslav59]

Can we remember one thing?

Today's SP: 1.2 IP 3 ER (8 H+BB)

Today's pen: 8.1 IP 2 ER (8H + BB)

I'm tired of these loses being blamed on the pen.

[a700hitter]

Can we remember one thing?

Today's SP: 1.2 IP 3 ER (8 H+BB)

Today's pen: 8.1 IP 2 ER (8H + BB)

I'm tired of these loses being blamed on the pen.

The bullpen stinks. I am glad that it makes you happy that the starters stink too. Cashner can be thrown in the Dumpster on October 1st or sooner imo. Porcello should be given a cake and a big goodbye card. He has had 3 atrocious seasons, 1 meh season and 1 stellar season. I don't expect that he will improve. For $22.5 million/yr, DD can do better.

[moonslav59]

The bullpen stinks. I am glad that it makes you happy that the starters stink too. Cashner can be thrown in the Dumpster on October 1st or sooner imo. Porcello should be given a cake and a big goodbye card. He has had 3 atrocious seasons, 1 meh season and 1 stellar season. I don't expect that he will improve. For $22.5 million/yr, DD can do better.

Don't be a dick.

I'm pissed at hell about the starters and the pen.

Our team sucks. There's nothing to be "happy" about.

I guess I should begin to think like you and wonder, if you find joy in the pen blowing another save, since it make you look right. Only a warped mind would think like this.

(I'm not sure what Porcello has to do with any of this. He's a starter, and he sucks.)

[a700hitter]

Don't be a dick.

I'm pissed at hell about the starters and the pen.

Our team sucks. There's nothing to be "happy" about.

I guess I should begin to think like you and wonder, if you find joy in the pen blowing another save, since it make you look right. Only a warped mind would think like this.

(I'm not sure what Porcello has to do with any of this. He's a starter, and he sucks.)

I didn't see that anyone was blaming the pen for today's loss. Cashener got booed off the mound. I thought your post was dick-ish.

[a700hitter]

(I'm not sure what Porcello has to do with any of this. He's a starter, and he sucks.)

Yeah, we agree on that. I never said anything different about him.

[notin]

Honest question (sorry if this has been answered before) has any other bullpen been used more than the Sox?? I swear they are playing more than the starters this year, it’s insane.

And we have a winner!!!

The Red Sox do lead the American League with 419 bullpen appearances (and that’s before adding another half dozen today).

And yet they are 7th in innings from the pen - and last in the AL East. (Opener strategies do impact here.) That might say something since it probably also means the Sox are at or near the bottom of the league in bullpen IP/Appearance. Maybe because they aren’t dry effective? Or is Cora too overeactive?

[jung]

And we have a winner!!!

The Red Sox do lead the American League with 419 bullpen appearances (and that’s before adding another half dozen today).

And yet they are 7th in innings from the pen - and last in the AL East. (Opener strategies do impact here.) That might say something since it probably also means the Sox are at or near the bottom of the league in bullpen IP/Appearance. Maybe because they aren’t dry effective? Or is Cora too overeactive?

Its not really Cora. He is stuck dealing with the sludge that passes for MLB quality pitching these days and that is really all it is. As fans we simply have not come to terms with how bad pitching is generally across MLB. We keep comparing these clowns to each other without realizing that its a formula that does not work any longer because they are basically with few exceptions all a buncha' double AA quality pitchers at best. Who cares anymore that this guy's ERA is X and this other guy's ERA is Y. We are comparing a bum to a hobo and somehow trying to build an argument for the bum vs the hobo.

The final coup de grace for the whole bunch of them impersonating MLB pitchers is the new 2019 Manfred Missile. The 2016 version was not good enough for our boy Rob. Noooooooo....and the 2018 version was not good enough for him either.

Whatever low level of actual pitching talent they have has been scared right out of them by a baseball that any two bit punk could knock over the wall just by barely touching it.

So welcome to Manfred League Baseball. Hope you like it. Anybody with an eye for baseball talent not completely attached to a spread sheet should have seen this coming years ago.

[Bellhorn04]

And we have a winner!!!

The Red Sox do lead the American League with 419 bullpen appearances (and that’s before adding another half dozen today).

And yet they are 7th in innings from the pen - and last in the AL East. (Opener strategies do impact here.) That might say something since it probably also means the Sox are at or near the bottom of the league in bullpen IP/Appearance. Maybe because they aren’t dry effective? Or is Cora too overeactive?

I think Cora has managed this pen about as well as he could.

[moonslav59]

Its not really Cora. He is stuck dealing with the sludge that passes for MLB quality pitching these days and that is really all it is. As fans we simply have not come to terms with how bad pitching is generally across MLB. We keep comparing these clowns to each other without realizing that its a formula that does not work any longer because they are basically with few exceptions all a buncha' double AA quality pitchers at best. Who cares anymore that this guy's ERA is X and this other guy's ERA is Y. We are comparing a bum to a hobo and somehow trying to build an argument for the bum vs the hobo.

The final coup de grace for the whole bunch of them impersonating MLB pitchers is the new 2019 Manfred Missile. The 2016 version was not good enough for our boy Rob. Noooooooo....and the 2018 version was not good enough for him either.

Whatever low level of actual pitching talent they have has been scared right out of them by a baseball that any two bit punk could knock over the wall just by barely touching it.

So welcome to Manfred League Baseball. Hope you like it. Anybody with an eye for baseball talent not completely attached to a spread sheet should have seen this coming years ago.

I'm not sure the pitching is any worse than 1, 2, 5, 10 or 15 years ago. I'm not sure how those guys would have done with the juiced ball and smaller ball parks.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure the pitching is any worse than 1, 2, 5, 10 or 15 years ago. I'm not sure how those guys would have done with the juiced ball and smaller ball parks.

I agree. It's not really fair to say on one hand that the ball is now a missile and on the other hand the pitching is now worse.

[moonslav59]

I agree. It's not really fair to say on one hand that the ball is now a missile and on the other hand the pitching is now worse.

I guess it's hard to now, and that's why I hate these kind of changes to the game, especially made in secret.

They ruin the integrity of the game and its history.

It could be a little of both, but how can we ever know.

[jung]

I agree. It's not really fair to say on one hand that the ball is now a missile and on the other hand the pitching is now worse.

The pitching was getting worse Waaaaaaaaaaaay before the first Manfred Missile. The Manfred Missiles (now plural) just exacerbated an already existing condition.

The pitching was certainly better in the 1990's and before, better in at least the first 5 to maybe 10 years of this century. Baseball prides itself on its statistical records that go back a long long way. Going back 10 years, even 15 years is just dodging the issue.

The pitching sucks and much like any frame of reference you want to talk about realistically, once a performance standard falls to a very low level it cascades from there. It will hockey stick at some point. No performance standard remains steady state either in advance or decline forever. Eventually it will cascade either way whether it a business performance standard or anything else you want to measure over time.

There is no question but that the Manfred Missile has exacerbated that cascade even further but that is all it has done. The "Missile" is the coup de grace and not more than that.

[devildavid]

I guess it's hard to now, and that's why I hate these kind of changes to the game, especially made in secret.

They ruin the integrity of the game and its history.

It could be a little of both, but how can we ever know.

I'm not sure the game really ever had any integrity. Deadball, racism, gambling, greenies, steroids, high pitchers mounds, juiced balls... Did I miss anything? That is the nature of all sports. What keeps me from giving up on it is the drama of it all. You can't predict the outcome. Unless it is all fixed, which I don't really think it is.

[Slasher9]

The pitching was getting worse Waaaaaaaaaaaay before the first Manfred Missile. The Manfred Missiles (now plural) just exacerbated an already existing condition.

The pitching was certainly better in the 1990's and before, better in at least the first 5 to maybe 10 years of this century. Baseball prides itself on its statistical records that go back a long long way. Going back 10 years, even 15 years is just dodging the issue.

The pitching sucks and much like any frame of reference you want to talk about realistically, once a performance standard falls to a very low level it cascades from there. It will hockey stick at some point. No performance standard remains steady state either in advance or decline forever. Eventually it will cascade either way whether it a business performance standard or anything else you want to measure over time.

There is no question but that the Manfred Missile has exacerbated that cascade even further but that is all it has done. The "Missile" is the coup de grace and not more than that.

personally i dont think the pitching has dropped off that much. i think the hitting preparation has gotten better. video / training / pitcher tendencies / harder bats. plus the unwritten rules have changed. pitchers can no longer light it up inside willy nilly. thank the insanely high priced salaries players get for that one.....

[Slasher9]

the best way to fix the hitting / pitching is to have robot umps. pitchers getting all 17" width + knee to letters would move the needle for sure.