The Pen

**BillyWilliams** · 02-19-2019, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bellhorn04

Is that as long as it takes to prove or disprove this theory? I thought it was the rest of the damn century.

LOL, I was just teasing about how the shift in power occurred this time last century.

**kenmeister** · 02-19-2019, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by BillyWilliams

Some appreciate the history of the game.

Others think it was invented in 2004..........

2003 with David Ortiz's arrival

**Kimmi** · 02-19-2019, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by dgalehouse

There is a certain superior snobbism that those who are devoted to analytics / sabermetrics display to those who don't quite buy into the whole thing . You will get their condescending attitude that you must believe the earth is flat and so forth . This applies to other subjects as well , but I'm not going there . In my view , skepticism is not something to mock . And always going along with the latest trend does not make one any smarter than the skeptic .

From where I stand, it is completely the other way around.

**Kimmi** · 02-19-2019, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Slasher9

remind me what you said last year? and the year before that? and 3 years ago?

The more Jacko goes on about how great the Yankees are, the better Red Sox fans should feel.

We got this in the bag.

**FredLynn** · 02-19-2019, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kimmi

The more Jacko goes on about how great the Yankees are, the better Red Sox fans should feel.

We got this in the bag.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Jacko nailed it on the head before last season began.................................oh wait.

**Bellhorn04** · 02-19-2019, 07:03 PM

Jacko refers to our bullpen as an "abject dumpster fire". It wasn't enough to just call it a "dumpster fire", he had to ramp it up even further with the "abject" adjective.

**moonslav59** · 02-19-2019, 07:42 PM

He keeps harping on our least strong area. It's his only hope.

Bull pen sucks.

Sale is toast.

Kimbrel was our MVP- we'll be crap without him.

Eovaldi will be as crappy as when he was a Yankee.

Betts & JD could never come near their 2018 numbers again.

No Sox player, even the pre-prime players can get better.

**notin** · 02-19-2019, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by moonslav59

He keeps harping on our least strong area. It's his only hope.

Bull pen sucks.

Sale is toast.

Kimbrel was our MVP- we'll be crap without him.

Eovaldi will be as crappy as when he was a Yankee.

Betts & JD could never come near their 2018 numbers again.

No Sox player, even the pre-prime players can get better.

And no one from the Sox farm system is capable of playing Division 3 high school baseball, let alone in the AL East...

**notin** · 02-19-2019, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

You do understand that the yanks got better and the Sox have gotten worse. Your team will be in the wild card game in 2019

So the AL East has already been clinched? Guess I can’t blame DD for not wasting money on the bullpen chasing an unwinnable division...

**notin** · 02-19-2019, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bellhorn04

Jacko refers to our bullpen as an "abject dumpster fire". It wasn't enough to just call it a "dumpster fire", he had to ramp it up even further with the "abject" adjective.

He doesn’t want anyone to confuse it with a partial dumpster fire. Those can be useful to hobos sometimes...

**notin** · 02-19-2019, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Kimmi

From where I stand, it is completely the other way around.

I have to agree.

WAR is the subject of far more bad puns (The “what is it good for?” line got old years ago.) and baseless attacks than BA and ERA and RBIs old-style baseball card stats. Don’t get me wrong; those stats do get attacked. Just typically with logic about their flaws as opposed to complaints about their existence.

Although I was listening to MLB Radio the other day, and a fan called up to bash Harper with “he’s only hit 40 HRsce and only got 100 RBIs once” and the host shot back with “when you get your head out of 1988.” But then sports radio hosts are not always known for their tolerance...

**jacksonianmarch** · 02-20-2019, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by notin

He doesn’t want anyone to confuse it with a partial dumpster fire. Those can be useful to hobos sometimes...

It is an abject dumpster fire. You take a pen that lacks depth and remove your best postseason performer and a likely (if he has another 3-4 good years) future HOF level closer and replace them with absolutely nothing and you have a dumpster fire. Your offense will score. Your rotation (barring injury) will hand over a lot of leads. Your pen will be the subject of hand wringing and gnashing of teeth this summer and I’m gonna love it

**moonslav59** · 02-20-2019, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

It is an abject dumpster fire. You take a pen that lacks depth and remove your best postseason performer and a likely (if he has another 3-4 good years) future HOF level closer and replace them with absolutely nothing and you have a dumpster fire. Your offense will score. Your rotation (barring injury) will hand over a lot of leads. Your pen will be the subject of hand wringing and gnashing of teeth this summer and I’m gonna love it

How was a pen with no depth able to overcome Kelly's mid season meltdown, Kimbrel's post season meltdown and the injuries to Wright, Workman, Smith and Thornburg?

I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong about our pen depth. The depth was what saved us.

Yes, we lost Kimbrel, but losing Kelly is not as big as you make it out to be. There were many who felt Kelly shouldn't even have been on the playoff rosters.

We have Brasier for a full season. That alone could make up for Kelly's loss.

Yes, Thornburg is huge question mark, but with Eovaldi in the rotation, we can see Johnson, Velazquez and a full season from Workman, Wright or Poyner seeing more time in the pen.

Our pen weakness right now is NOT depth or quantity: it is quality at the most important slots- closer and number 1 set-up man, although Barnes and Brasier offer significant hope there.

If anything, we have too many pitchers vying for the 7 pen slots with some of the wrong ones being out of options.

Barnes
Brasier
Wright
Thornburg
Hembree
Workman

Johnson
Velazquez
Shawaryn
E Ramirez
C Shepherd
Josh Smith

Poyner
Lakins
Brewer
Walden
Z Putman

Feltman (after July/Aug?)

**mvp 78** · 02-20-2019, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

It is an abject dumpster fire. You take a pen that lacks depth and remove your best postseason performer and a likely (if he has another 3-4 good years) future HOF level closer and replace them with absolutely nothing and you have a dumpster fire. Your offense will score. Your rotation (barring injury) will hand over a lot of leads. Your pen will be the subject of hand wringing and gnashing of teeth this summer and I’m gonna love it

Abject dumpster fire because Joe Kelly is gone. Um, ok... He wasn't very good for long stretches over the past few years. Losing him is not a big deal. My guess is that if they retained Kelly and let Kimbrel go that you'd still be calling it an abject dumpster fire.

It was a top 10 bullpen last year. It'll still be top 15 even with the loss of Kimbrel.

**moonslav59** · 02-20-2019, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by mvp 78

Abject dumpster fire because Joe Kelly is gone. Um, ok... He wasn't very good for long stretches over the past few years. Losing him is not a big deal. My guess is that if they retained Kelly and let Kimbrel go that you'd still be calling it an abject dumpster fire.

It was a top 10 bullpen last year. It'll still be top 15 even with the loss of Kimbrel.

He keeps confusing weakest area to a weak area.

Average in one area is not a death knell.

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