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Thread: Sandy Leon vs. JBJ--who brings more value on defense and overall

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    Sandy Leon vs. JBJ--who brings more value on defense and overall

    Short and sweet (a rarity for me), my vote is for Leon both ways because this year for the first time I can see the difference Leon makes with the rotation, which is huge.

    JBJ could be the greatest defensive CF is MLB history, which he certainly is not, and Leon would still be more valuable on defense because pitching is the dominant factor in any team's defense and gets tested roughly 120 times per game. And good catchers, as we have seen with Leon, make a difference on how effective those 120 pitches are (even though the lion's share of the work is by the pitchers). Centerfielders get tested--non-routine plays--maybe 2 or 3 times a game, if that.

    For JBJ to be worth more than Sandy, I think his OPS would have to be at least .800.

    The only complication to my thesis is that on this team Vazquez is still the #1 catcher because of his better hitting, and in my opinion JBJ is still the #1 centerfielder, despite his weak hitting.
    Last edited by Maxbialystock; 05-22-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  2. #2
    JBJ has looked like he lost a step out there this year. He’s also a very minus defender right now, -11.9 UZR/150. Leon came back and all of a sudden, Sale is mowing people down. Could be coincidence, but a pitchers comfort is important and if Leon unlocks your ace, then he’s worth his weight in gold

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    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    JBJ has looked like he lost a step out there this year. He’s also a very minus defender right now, -11.9 UZR/150. Leon came back and all of a sudden, Sale is mowing people down. Could be coincidence, but a pitchers comfort is important and if Leon unlocks your ace, then he’s worth his weight in gold
    Some of us had faith this would happen, but you were very skeptical.
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    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    There's room for both Leon and JBJ on this roster. I'm not sure why the conversation the past few days has been "pick one."
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
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    Neither one has any value/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    JBJ has looked like he lost a step out there this year. He’s also a very minus defender right now, -11.9 UZR/150. Leon came back and all of a sudden, Sale is mowing people down. Could be coincidence, but a pitchers comfort is important and if Leon unlocks your ace, then he’s worth his weight in gold
    I believe JBJ had a minus UZR/150 early last year, too.

    I don't pay too much attention to short sample defensive metrics, but it is interesting he's got such a low number. The eye test does not agree.
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    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I believe JBJ had a minus UZR/150 early last year, too.

    I don't pay too much attention to short sample defensive metrics, but it is interesting he's got such a low number. The eye test does not agree.
    I'm sorry, but my eye test doesn't show JBJ to be doing anything superhuman this year. He had one nice game saving catch that Mookie would have made as well. He's fine defensively, but he's not the best CF even in his division.
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    I’m actually leaning towards the “Time to move on from JBJ” side.

    The smart move might be to non-tender him and try to bring back Porcello...

  9. #9
    I have watched a fair amount of Sox games and I see a noticeable difference in JBJ in CF. Still getting good jumps, but he’s been a touch unsure of himself and he’s definitely lost a step

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    You can't really compare a CFer to a catcher defense-wise. There's no CERA for outfielders.
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    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    I also think JBJ might be about to go on one of his good streaks with the bat.
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    this will end up being my favorite thread.

    can we DFA them both?
    bring back swi and mookie is as good a CFer as JBj and JDM is as good as a RFer as Mook. that opens up the DH spot for Pearce.
    get the duckboats ready!

    the OP was whining for weeks about "when has JBj ever done anything to save a game defensively". then he makes the biggest catch we will see all year to literally snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. oh, but beni, mook, shoot even JDM would have made that catch! nothing to see here!
    other names i have posted under: none

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    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I also think JBJ might be about to go on one of his good streaks with the bat.
    Would be nice, but I haven't seen much evidence of him turning it around. Maybe they'll make him retool his swing for the 20th time.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
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    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    this will end up being my favorite thread.

    can we DFA them both?
    bring back swi and mookie is as good a CFer as JBj and JDM is as good as a RFer as Mook. that opens up the DH spot for Pearce.
    get the duckboats ready!

    the OP was whining for weeks about "when has JBj ever done anything to save a game defensively". then he makes the biggest catch we will see all year to literally snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. oh, but beni, mook, shoot even JDM would have made that catch! nothing to see here!
    I can't keep up with who rants about what anymore, especially in regards to JBJ. All posters that don't have avatars are grouped as one single hive mind to me. It took me years to know the difference between sk7326 and cp176.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I can't keep up with who rants about what anymore, especially in regards to JBJ. All posters that don't have avatars are grouped as one single hive mind to me. It took me years to know the difference between sk7326 and cp176.
    You think you know the difference huh?
    If the thread is simply asking who has more current value JBJ or Leon, I don't see much of a debate at all. Sandy gets the nod. that doesn't mean that the team can't get along with both of them. it can.
    JBJ still is very good out there but his occasional great plays although meaningful and fun to look at can't make up in any way how he has failed at the plate. i also think that on occasion, he makes fairly easy plays look a little tougher than they need to be.

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