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Thread: Sale to IL with elbow injury

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasbob View Post
    Here's the good news. You will have 5 years to watch and pay significant money for a pitcher who failed to finish the last two seasons with some combination of shoulder and elbow stress injuries . Skinny or fat, hard fastball or junk curve lollipops, the Sox have him now. Hope springs eternal but Chris Sale will be the next anchor on the payroll for a while to come. Realistically and based on Chris's history, the Sox would be better off holding Sale out of baseball activity, having a very late ST ramp up next May, and see if he can get from June through September when it may count.
    I don't know where this entry should be put, but since you bring up the $30 million risk on Sale, it reminds me of a thought about long term planning of the team's finances and how it will work with the long term contracts that we currently have on the books. In general, I foresee:

    1. There will be some cap limit on spending going forward applied in an effort to keep a competitive balance between the large and small market teams. How it will be structured and how it may change will depend on player's union input at the next negotiations. The point is that there will be a limitation.

    2. The Sox have some fairly near term contracts and some long term contracts that are meaningful. Price is a 2 year one, Price for 5, Bogie for 4 I believe, Pedroia winding down, Eovaldi and JDM.

    3 The Sox will have to deal with JBJ, Betts and Porcello and E-Rod near term and have Beni and Devers who will begin to be paid. Devers is superstar material and money needs to be reserved to keep him.

    4. We probably need new GM leadership as it appears to me that we have a predicament going forward and our current GM made the decisions to put us into the situation. We need to rebuild our farm system while trying to keep the seats filled until we can restructure our contracts going forward.

    5. I would say few fans see how we can trade away the most damaging contracts we currently have, so the emphasis should be on not committing to additional long term ones that will not likely pay dividends for the team. Right now it looks like Porcello, JBJ and in a year, Betts will need to be dealt with. Others we just assume are gone with the exception of Leon and Holt, both of whom are questionable for the longer term. I'd expect Porcello and Jbj to be gone and an at value offer to be made for Betts. We'd be better with him but not at $30 mil for 10 years.


    It will not be an easy time for the GM going forward. Lets hope we get a smart yet hard headed leader who considers the long term.

  2. #167
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    Still doesn't mean he doesn't need surgery. 6 weeks will tell you.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by OH FOY! View Post
    Still doesn't mean he doesn't need surgery. 6 weeks will tell you.
    Yup.....they could actually just be waiting for the inflammation to subside and taking a look at that point.

    But he is done for the year. He is not going to pitch at all for these 6 weeks....zipo....zero....nada. So that is it for this year and well it should be.

    To be honest, I almost wish they simply looked in 6 weeks and operated at that point. Its the actual only shot Sale has at pitching the same way he has always pitched which I think is uber-important to Chris Sale the person. It would be his first TJ which would also be encouraging. Its not like he would be on to TJ II or TJ III. I would rather give up his 2020 season and get back the Chris Sale we are paying for than nurse along a frustrated pitcher.

    Just heard that Sale got a PLP injection in the elbow on Monday. That is not the most encouraging thing I have ever heard.
    Last edited by jung; 08-20-2019 at 09:23 AM.

  4. #169
    Why don't they just go ahead and do the TJ surgery. It has been just a matter of time before that elbow became a long term problem. The injection that was used is not just a typical cortisone shot... there has to be a slight tear in there and yeah we may give him a 6 month break in hopes it heals itself but we all see the writing on the wall and how this plays out.... He comes back in late April/May and says and maybe even shows a good arm and then wham around the trade deadline another stint on the IL and then has TJ and we don't see him until 2022. Expect him out until June 2021 and start the trading process to rebuild and get some damn arms and actual MLB talent coming from the minors.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    I agree with this assessment. And I do not think that DD is the right guy to rebuild our farm system. I don't think he has ever successfully done that. He is a GM who tends to destroy farm systems in order to win now. Nothing wrong with that, but he is the wrong guy for the job at hand.
    #BringBackBen

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
    It will not be an easy time for the GM going forward. Lets hope we get a smart yet hard headed leader who considers the long term.
    It's never going to be easy being head of baseball ops of the Boston Red Sox.

    Theo is gone.
    Ben is gone.
    DD will soon be gone.

    Combined they won 4 titles, the most of any team this century. And yet they're all goners...
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's never going to be easy being head of baseball ops of the Boston Red Sox.

    Theo is gone.
    Ben is gone.
    DD will soon be gone.

    Combined they won 4 titles, the most of any team this century. And yet they're all goners...
    Well said.

    We are living the good life.

    You got to handle the lows as well as you handle the highs.
    In the town where I was born
    Lived a man who sailed to sea
    And he told us of his life
    In the land of submarines
    So we sailed up to the sun
    'Til we found a sea of green
    And we lived beneath the waves
    In our yellow submarine

  8. #173
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    I think this is just the precursor to inevitable TJ surgery since last season he hasn't pitched dominate like he had shoulder issues, this year it's elbow problem plus since the start of the year he wasn't great even though he turned out a couple of good outing now he's shut down for the season. Who knows what next season be like it's very unlikely that he can labor through a full rigorous season again given his high mileage arm.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I’m not sure how much the now Tanaka is a conscious choice vs a diminished arm. Tanaka took this course of treatment for a partial UCL tear. It worked for his longevity, but the guy who returned lost the top off his velocity range. Interestingly, Tanaka’s average FB velocity went up by 0.6 mph, but when you watched his debut season, he was anywhere from 90-97 on his fastball. Now, he’s 90-93 with an occasional 94 mixed in. So he’s throwing the ball harder on average yet he’s lost the ability to blow it by hitters when needed. It’s made his fastball far more predictable. A 7 mph range on the FB is akin to having a fastball that can act as a Changeup. He was unhittable. Now, he adjusted, but has essentially become a far more frequent breaking ball tossed in the interim. He returned throwing 8% less fastballs and that’s dropped to 10% less off his peak this year.

    Now, semantics play into this too. Seeing “inflammation” or calling this an “elbow sprain” entails a tear. The tear could be significant or it could mean a micro tear. But there’s some tearing in there. The PRP is intended to repair the damage there.
    I haven't seen it called a "sprain" anywhere...only that its inflammation, which could be a myriad of things. There may or may not be a tear. We are not entitled to know (if it IS known) what the cause of the inflammation is. Here are some of the things it COULD be. Obviously some are irrelevant, but this points out the fact that inflammation can be caused not JUST by an UCL tear:

    Differential Diagnosis of Elbow Pain Based on Anatomic Location
    Anterior

    Anterior capsule strain
    Biceps tendinopathy
    Gout
    Intra-articular loose body
    Osteoarthritis
    Pronator syndrome
    Rheumatoid arthritis

    Lateral

    Lateral epicondylitis
    Osteochondral defect
    Plica
    Posterolateral rotatory instability
    Radial tunnel syndrome/posterior interosseous nerve syndrome

    Medial

    Cubital tunnel syndrome
    Medial epicondylitis
    Ulnar collateral ligament injury
    Valgus extension overload syndrome

    Posterior

    Olecranon bursitis
    Olecranon stress fracture
    Osteoarthritis
    Posterior impingement
    Triceps tendinopathy

    The actual diagnosis is less important than how well he will perform once healed. Thats really the bottom line. Will he still have 95+? Will he be able to adapt successfully if he only has 93? Only time will tell.......
    Last edited by FredLynn; 08-20-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    #BringBackBen
    He isn't available. He is too busy. I recently bought a Chevy from him at the local dealership.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    He isn't available. He is too busy. I recently bought a Chevy from him at the local dealership.
    He's too busy building up the Jays farm system.

  12. #177
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    Pablo was a better idea of a signing than Sale
    In the town where I was born
    Lived a man who sailed to sea
    And he told us of his life
    In the land of submarines
    So we sailed up to the sun
    'Til we found a sea of green
    And we lived beneath the waves
    In our yellow submarine

  13. #178
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    150 weight. Violent arm delivery. Who would have thought he might have issues later in his career.
    In the town where I was born
    Lived a man who sailed to sea
    And he told us of his life
    In the land of submarines
    So we sailed up to the sun
    'Til we found a sea of green
    And we lived beneath the waves
    In our yellow submarine

  14. #179
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxHop View Post
    Pablo was a better idea of a signing than Sale
    Incoming!

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's never going to be easy being head of baseball ops of the Boston Red Sox.

    Theo is gone.
    Ben is gone.
    DD will soon be gone.

    Combined they won 4 titles, the most of any team this century. And yet they're all goners...
    To be fair, as the de facto leader of the Fire Dombrowski Movement, he isn't gone and we really don't know if he actually will be...

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