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Thread: Sale to IL with elbow injury

  1. #301
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    The Sox might even consider just promoting Assistant GM Eddie Romero. He's been with the organization a long time and is from a baseball family (dad played for the Sox). And if Henry wants someone he knows, Romero certainly qualifies. The Sox have certainly had no issue promoting internally to GM before, with Epstein, Cherington, and the oft-forgotten Mike Hazen.
    I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but the curly-headed scribe already put in his vote for Romero.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

  2. #302
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    He improved the pitching rotation superficially. But there was and still is nothing below the top 5 starters. While you can argue the injuries to Sale, Eovaldi and Price were unlucky, they were hardly surprising. Sale ended 2018 with some concerns. Price has had his issues since coming to Boston. And Eovaldi is a frequent visitor the the DL/IL.

    The bullpen has actually been a pleasant surprise in some ways. I keep expecting Marcus Walden to fall apart, but the man is a Phoenix, repeatedly rising from the ashes of his own poor performances. Workman is having a career year. And Barnes, while up and down, was probably relied on too heavily by Cora early on. And now Josh Taylor looks like he might be carving out his own little niche for 2020. Still, the overall plan to grab a backup 1B in stead of another arm to give more depth in case anything went wrong strikes me as a very poor decision, especially since (unlike me) Dombrowski was aware of the Sox' financial situation.

    But really the bottom line is this team has struggled since March, and while getting Cashner was a nice idea, we really have not seen anything else from Dombrowski. Rome was burning, and there was Dombrowski, fiddling away with Chris Owings and Joey Curletta. Meanwhile, the Yankees have the best record in the AL, and Cashman still isn't sitting still. Sure, it's extremely unlikely David Hernandez, Tyler Lyons and Trevor Rosenthal contribute in any meaningful way this year, but they are joining his ever-growing fleet of lifeboats. Meanwhile, the Sox have decided to sink or swim with whoever was on board in March and cling to the mantra "they need to play better." And that tactic is simply not working...
    I really do not disagree with anything here, except for the 'superficial' line about Eovaldi.

    I am fine with the way Dombrowski handled the off season in terms of the 25 man roster. I am always on board with adding more pitching depth, as much as you can reasonably acquire.

    As I posted before, I agree that Dombrowski fell asleep in terms of adding more depth, particularly for the pen, and particularly during the season.

  3. #303
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    The Kimmi Fan Club? Lead by Slasher?
    LOL That works too.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but the curly-headed scribe already put in his vote for Romero.
    He's a logical candidate. It's really tough to guess what external folks will be available and interested.

    And while Shaughnessy has a reputation as a big time cynic, he's still a more perceptive sportswriter than any of the whiners that used to pollute the Herald sports pages in the 1990's and early 2000's. I would read 1,000 Shaughnessy articles before even reading the opening sentence on anything written by Gerry Callahan...

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I really do not disagree with anything here, except for the 'superficial' line about Eovaldi.

    I am fine with the way Dombrowski handled the off season in terms of the 25 man roster. I am always on board with adding more pitching depth, as much as you can reasonably acquire.

    As I posted before, I agree that Dombrowski fell asleep in terms of adding more depth, particularly for the pen, and particularly during the season.
    The "superficial" comment was not specific to Eovaldi. More about how Dombrowski settled on his starting 5 and then just flat out quit. I heard Epstein on the radio here in Chicago talking about building the Cubs rotation, and he said something to the effect of "we know who the top 5 are, but we still need to settle on starters 6 though 9." We didn't see that this year from DD...

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    Stop Jacko. Just stop.

    Also, when was the last time you saw a parade?

    Think you're seeing one this year? Think again.
    I think the Yankees have a solid chance this year. You may end up eating those words.

  7. #307
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    The Kimmi Fan Club? Lead by Slasher?
    i do love me some Kimmi.
    but she and i also disagree on stuff too. (robo umps, clutch, dWar to name a few).
    it's a lovely give and take relationship that i will not ruin by presiding over her fan club.
    other names i have posted under: none

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Now that i look at this statement again, that is a massive oversimplification.

    The 2014 team came in last place. The team might have been "incomplete", whatever that means, but you can't go from first with the same team without a massive change in the player's performance. The Sox only lost two players, and while Ellsbury was still good, he wasn't so good that subtracting him changed the team by 25 wins. And the other player lost was Ryan Dempster, the fifth starter...
    The 2019 team in on course to lose 23 more games than the 2018 team. The 2014 team lost 26 games more than the previous year. Neither team lost a significant number of players, though the loss of Ellsbury, an everyday player, was probably more important that losing Kimbrel. The 2018 team was a LOT more talented than the 2013 team. Thats the issue I have. With the level of talent the 2018 team had they should at least have been in contention for a playoff spot. They just mailed it in this year. When a team has no talent you really can't complain that they suck. These guys have the talent but didn't do their jobs. Thats in no way the fault of the GM.

  9. #309
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The 2019 team in on course to lose 23 more games than the 2018 team. The 2014 team lost 26 games more than the previous year. Neither team lost a significant number of players, though the loss of Ellsbury, an everyday player, was probably more important that losing Kimbrel. The 2018 team was a LOT more talented than the 2013 team. Thats the issue I have. With the level of talent the 2018 team had they should at least have been in contention for a playoff spot. They just mailed it in this year. When a team has no talent you really can't complain that they suck. These guys have the talent but didn't do their jobs. Thats in no way the fault of the GM.
    Underperformance can be a difficult thing to figure out.

    Take a guy like Porcello. I highly doubt that he isn't doing anything but trying his ass off out there every time out. Especially when you consider he's in his walk year and there's a lot of money on the line for him. He's not getting the results, but I don't think it's from a lack of effort.

    Shit happens.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Underperformance can be a difficult thing to figure out.

    Take a guy like Porcello. I highly doubt that he isn't doing anything but trying his ass off out there every time out. Especially when you consider he's in his walk year and there's a lot of money on the line for him. He's not getting the results, but I don't think it's from a lack of effort.

    Shit happens.
    Yup. Guys have bad years. This year Cora failed to have his SPs ready to start the season by severely limiting the number of pitches thrown in ST, a strategy which was predictably faulty. Then you have the kind of brain dead baseball the Sox have exhibited all year, for example, Bogaerts getting thrown out at 3B last night. Just not thinking....they frequently do not have their heads in the game. Thats mental; its mailing it in.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The 2019 team in on course to lose 23 more games than the 2018 team. The 2014 team lost 26 games more than the previous year. Neither team lost a significant number of players, though the loss of Ellsbury, an everyday player, was probably more important that losing Kimbrel. The 2018 team was a LOT more talented than the 2013 team. Thats the issue I have. With the level of talent the 2018 team had they should at least have been in contention for a playoff spot. They just mailed it in this year. When a team has no talent you really can't complain that they suck. These guys have the talent but didn't do their jobs. Thats in no way the fault of the GM.
    But there is some fault in theGM just sitting back and watching it happen.

    The 2014 team had a fire sale and still only regressed about the same as the 2019 team. The only difference remaining will be that the 2014 team finished in fifth place. The 2019 team will probably finish 3rd place despite the relatively equal regression...

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Underperformance can be a difficult thing to figure out.

    Take a guy like Porcello. I highly doubt that he isn't doing anything but trying his ass off out there every time out. Especially when you consider he's in his walk year and there's a lot of money on the line for him. He's not getting the results, but I don't think it's from a lack of effort.

    Shit happens.
    And that's part of the problem that does fall on Dombrowski.

    Porcello is clearly having a horrible season, effort notwithstanding. But he is still out there starting games. Eovaldi is having a horrible season due to injury. He has had his role bounced around, but he is now back in the rotation. DD did got out and get Cashner, who was actually a smart pickup despite his failures at the time. But with all the struggles and injuries in this rotation, why so little effort to improve? Why did DD do nothing else? I get his trade assets were limited, for which he is culpable, but understandably so. But nothing else? Other teams in the playoff race have been at least trying. AS I pointed out on another thread, the Yankees have a killer bullpen, but they keep adding to it. Meanwhile Dombrowski looks at the Sox pitching and says "do better! That's it."

    It's not his fault Sale and Porcello and Cashner and Eovaldi have struggled. But it is his fault for having no one else to pick up the slack...

  13. #313
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    And that's part of the problem that does fall on Dombrowski.

    Porcello is clearly having a horrible season, effort notwithstanding. But he is still out there starting games. Eovaldi is having a horrible season due to injury. He has had his role bounced around, but he is now back in the rotation. DD did got out and get Cashner, who was actually a smart pickup despite his failures at the time. But with all the struggles and injuries in this rotation, why so little effort to improve? Why did DD do nothing else? I get his trade assets were limited, for which he is culpable, but understandably so. But nothing else? Other teams in the playoff race have been at least trying. AS I pointed out on another thread, the Yankees have a killer bullpen, but they keep adding to it. Meanwhile Dombrowski looks at the Sox pitching and says "do better! That's it."

    It's not his fault Sale and Porcello and Cashner and Eovaldi have struggled. But it is his fault for having no one else to pick up the slack...
    With the budget limits, all he could have done was add more scrubs.

    I agree, he should have done so, but it's not like he had many choices beyond the Eovaldi & Pearce signings.
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  14. #314
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    And that's part of the problem that does fall on Dombrowski.

    Porcello is clearly having a horrible season, effort notwithstanding. But he is still out there starting games. Eovaldi is having a horrible season due to injury. He has had his role bounced around, but he is now back in the rotation. DD did got out and get Cashner, who was actually a smart pickup despite his failures at the time. But with all the struggles and injuries in this rotation, why so little effort to improve? Why did DD do nothing else? I get his trade assets were limited, for which he is culpable, but understandably so. But nothing else? Other teams in the playoff race have been at least trying. AS I pointed out on another thread, the Yankees have a killer bullpen, but they keep adding to it. Meanwhile Dombrowski looks at the Sox pitching and says "do better! That's it."

    It's not his fault Sale and Porcello and Cashner and Eovaldi have struggled. But it is his fault for having no one else to pick up the slack...
    I don't really disagree.

    I'll say this, if you look at 2018, our starting pitching depth was no better than it is this year. Johnson and Velazquez were much bigger helps last year.
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  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I don't really disagree.

    I'll say this, if you look at 2018, our starting pitching depth was no better than it is this year. Johnson and Velazquez were much bigger helps last year.
    This year, it has been a real problem. I don't mind not taking evasive action when none is needed. But I expect an attempt when it is...

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