Sale to IL with elbow injury

[jung]

Generally its on the players...but in fairness, the 2013 team was not as complete a team as the 2018 team. Last years team won 11 more games and had a better run differential than the 13 team. Last years team also scored more runs and had a better ERA than the 2013 team. And essentially the team we put on the field this year was nearly identical to the 2018 juggernaut, except for the closer. I can't blame DD for the players not doing their jobs this year. I do not recall who left the 2013 team after they won; maybe some of the guys who left caused the first to worst.

The 2013 team was a perfect blend of mainly vets with something to prove playing for a future paycheck with a few young guys in the right spots. Shave Victorino, Johny Gomes, Napoli, Drew, Ross were all playing to prove they still had a future in MLB, some coming off injury. That was just the everyday players in that spot...never mind the pitchers in the same spot. Once the vets had proven what they wanted to prove individually in 2013 they were done and so was the 2014 team.

[SoxHop]

The Red Sox are fourth in the American League in OPS:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...12-31&sort=9,d

... and fourth in wRC+:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...2-31&sort=16,d

... and seventh in pitching fWAR:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...date=&enddate=

... and second in position player fWAR:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...date=&enddate=

Wow, seventh in pitching. I would have thought that would have been much lower

[moonslav59]

Wow, seventh in pitching. I would have thought that would have been much lower

7th out of 15 is nothing to write home about.

It also shows just how bad 8 other teams must be.

[moonslav59]

In fact, just blaming the SP is not 100% accurate.

Eovaldi - wit ha significant history of injury - has missed most of 2018. Dombrowski's lucrative extension made replacing him difficult. (So apparently he decided not to try beyond Ryan Weber.)

Sale missed time in 2018, and was not the same in the postseason. He was also given a lucrative extension. Now that he is out, don't hold your breath for a replacement.

Price has been having off-and-on issues since 2017. If he isn't 100%, why do you expect the same results from when he was?

Porcello has been a flop. That's on him.

But essentially, Dombrowski took a WSC team and the extent ofhis "improvements" was to replace Craig Kimbrel with Colten Brewer. Meanwhile, Houston and NY and Tampa and, well, everyone else, was trying to get better to catch the Sox. Juggernaut or not, he absolutely gave everyone the chance to close the gap. And some of them took it...

Had we signed Morton & Ottavino, instead of Eovaldi and Pearce, we're still in this thing.

It's hit or miss, so I don't blame DD for guessing wrong.

As it turned out, we needed a SP'er and 1Bman, but who knew Chavis would do better than Pearce and play more than Moreland?

[jung]

Had we signed Morton & Ottavino, instead of Eovaldi and Pearce, we're still in this thing.

It's hit or miss, so I don't blame DD for guessing wrong.

As it turned out, we needed a SP'er and 1Bman, but who knew Chavis would do better than Pearce and play more than Moreland?

Pearce was a huge mistake. Worse than giving Nate $68M/4. We already had Moreland. So there was no new Moreland deal at the start of this year.

I really don't like how they handled 1st base at all from a payroll and roster perspective but Pearce was the knife stuck in the gut....fat useless fuck...journeyman player has a great WEEK and gets a contract. Wonderful!!! Incidentally Price was the WS MVP not Pearce. But that is water under the bridge.

And it does not matter the result with Chavis as much as the organization's willingness to bring him up. So without Pearce and if they crapped out on whomever they brought in to share time with Moreland are we saying they would not simply have brought up Chavis earlier?

[Slasher9]

last years team would crush the 2013 team.
2013 had everything go for them + the russian kids marathon bombing.

[jung]

last years team would crush the 2013 team.
2013 had everything go for them + the russian kids marathon bombing.

Correct on talent. 2018 team much much more talented. The only shot the 2013 team would have had beating the 2018 team was grit and guile which is what they won on in many 2013 games anyway.

[Larry33]

Gotta admit, Cherries seems to have done a decent job with the Jays farm. We need a guy like Cherries and a guy like DD to have a head on collision and have the docs put together a Pres of Baseball Ops out of the remaining usable limbs and various body parts. THATS OUR GUY!!!!

You couldn't get Ben and DD in the same room let along on the same team they have different views and philosophies regarding a team direction. Ben was offered a job to work with DD he refused and left the Red Sox organization. You have to give credit where credit is due he was good with player development and prospects that where Ben excelled and that's what he doing for the Blue Jays. As GM not so good but then again how much involvement did Larry Lucchino have in his decision making. Ben like investing a devolping a strong farm system and has a more wait till then approach versus DD who has a win now attitude with little regards towards a strong farm system. DD is notorious for for trading top prospects for proven veterans he's an old school GM by trying to buy championships versus building them. He traded one of the best pitchers in MLB for a rental when he was managing the Expos Randy Johnson for Mark Langston that had to be one of the stupidest trade baseball ever seen. The Red Sox are in trouble if they expect to rebuild with this guy his history speaks for itself.

[Bellhorn04]

Pearce was a huge mistake. Worse than giving Nate $68M/4. We already had Moreland. So there was no new Moreland deal at the start of this year.

I really don't like how they handled 1st base at all from a payroll and roster perspective but Pearce was the knife stuck in the gut....fat useless fuck...journeyman player has a great WEEK and gets a contract. Wonderful!!!

C'mon, let's be reasonable. Pearce's contract was less than 10% of Nate's. It had a minor impact.

[jung]

You couldn't get Ben and DD in the same room let along on the same team they have different views and philosophies regarding a team direction. Ben was offered a job to work with DD he refused and left the Red Sox organization. You have to give credit where credit is due he was good with player development and prospects that where Ben excelled and that's what he doing for the Blue Jays. As GM not so good but then again how much involvement did Larry Lucchino have in his decision making. Ben like investing a devolping a strong farm system and has a more wait till then approach versus DD who has a win now attitude with little regards towards a strong farm system. DD is notorious for for trading top prospects for proven veterans he's an old school GM by trying to buy championships versus building them. He traded one of the best pitchers in MLB for a rental when he was managing the Expos Randy Johnson for Mark Langston that had to be one of the stupidest trade baseball ever seen. The Red Sox are in trouble if they expect to rebuild with this guy his history speaks for itself.

They would not work together....but if you could blend them into one Pres of Baseball ops you would have something. Like I said, it would take a head on collision car wreck to actually get actual body parts form both of those specific guys working as a single Pres of Baseball Ops. But somebody who could deal AND could do it without twitching every time there is a chance to rape the farm system would be a heck of a Pres of Baseball Ops.

The Director of Player Personnel builds the farm system. So your Pres of Baseball Ops does not do that job. But to have the Pres of Baseball Ops just frothing out of the corners of his mouth to simply gut the farm is not a particularly attractive situation.

There is some discussion in this forum about the quality of the players in our farm system when DD got here. It does not matter. Regardless of whether you are stocked with top picks or middling picks or garbage, anybody not wearing a cast will be gone before DD is done.

[moonslav59]

C'mon, let's be reasonable. Pearce's contract was less than 10% of Nate's. It had a minor impact.

I agree, but if you add his $6.25M to what we had under the tax line, we'd be close to what Ottavino got.

[moonslav59]

C'mon, let's be reasonable. Pearce's contract was less than 10% of Nate's. It had a minor impact.

Plus, cost per season was about 33% of Eo's.

[SoxHop]

last years team would crush the 2013 team.
2013 had everything go for them + the russian kids marathon bombing.

'
It aint pretty, it aint Skakespear, but reducing what that dipshit did to "russian kid marathon bombing" maybe the most elequant way I've ever heard of it.

[jung]

C'mon, let's be reasonable. Pearce's contract was less than 10% of Nate's. It had a minor impact.

$6M is a pile of money to get NOTHING. I am being reasonable. It was a bad deal the day it was signed and it has not aged well.

Nate made some sense...but not at $68/4. Pearce made no sense whatsoever. Simply a DD binky deal.

[SoxHop]

$6M is a pile of money to get NOTHING. I am being reasonable. It was a bad deal the day it was signed and it has not aged well.

Nate made some sense...but not at $68/4. Pearce made no sense whatsoever. Simply a DD binky deal.

6 mil? Your yelling at the clouds. 6 mil is a round off error for a guy that might have helped fill in for broken ass Pedrio.