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Thread: A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

  1. #3316
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    It's about rectifying the bad (financial) moves made in the past.

    We threw money after money and thinking the solution is to keep throwing money seems a bit illogical. Standing pat neither gets us a ring nor budget relief.

    DD & Henry like maniacs (plus Ben with Pablo & HRam). We might not like to think about it, but a balance was always in the future. The future came quicker than we thought or hoped, but it's here. We can put it off another year, I suppose, and go for one last hurrah, but the balance will come.
    I for one will be satisfied if I perc3eive Bloom is making moves that will improve the team continuously and on a long term basis. Undoing the poor Dombrowski decisions will take time and there will be some pain felt to do it.

  2. #3317
    Legend S5Dewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    In the history of MLB, has any owner ever lost money when selling a team, even with adjusted dollars to inflation?
    Again going to my portfolio comparison, let's say a person has buys $400,000 worth of stock and over two years that investment increased to $500,000. In the next six months the market has crashed a bit and his $400,000 is only worth $450,000.... has he lost money?

    There's no doubt that JH can sell the franchise for more than he initially paid for it but if he doesn't sell it at the highest value ever has he lost money?
    It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
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  3. #3318
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  4. #3319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    But you're willing to pay Betts upwards of $50M for one season, almost 25% of luxury tax limit.
    Yes, because Betts is easily better than $26%+ of our roster combined.

    We need to reset, so it's not $75M the first year.
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  5. #3320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Bad contracts

    Chris Sale....this will be year 1 of his new contract with AAV value of around $25M. No one with certainty can tell me that it's a bad deal.
    Nathan Eovaldi.....a four year deal with chance to turn around over next three years.
    David Price....a signature 7 year deal...3 Division titles and a world series. Lets see what next three years will bring and then evaluate his contract in its entirety
    JD Martinez....I'm good with his deal. He's given us exactly what we needed year after Ortiz' departure.

    Any others?
    So, Price is a good deal going forward at $32M, but Betts is not worth $50M?

    I'll take Betts at $40M a year over Price + Eovaldi in a heartbeat ($59M/yr).
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  6. #3321
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    Quote Originally Posted by S5Dewey View Post
    Again going to my portfolio comparison, let's say a person has buys $400,000 worth of stock and over two years that investment increased to $500,000. In the next six months the market has crashed a bit and his $400,000 is only worth $450,000.... has he lost money?

    There's no doubt that JH can sell the franchise for more than he initially paid for it but if he doesn't sell it at the highest value ever has he lost money?
    No. Stock value only counts when you sell.

    Plus, Henry has made mega bucks along the way.

    He will sell the Sox at a massive profit, IMO.

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  7. #3322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    If you read the history of the Yankees I believe CBS sold the Yankees at a loss to Steinbrenner
    Okay, is that the only one out of hundreds of sales over the last century?
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  8. #3323
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    Quote Originally Posted by S5Dewey View Post
    Again going to my portfolio comparison, let's say a person has buys $400,000 worth of stock and over two years that investment increased to $500,000. In the next six months the market has crashed a bit and his $400,000 is only worth $450,000.... has he lost money?

    There's no doubt that JH can sell the franchise for more than he initially paid for it but if he doesn't sell it at the highest value ever has he lost money?
    If they all sold, today, this might be close to their profits:

    http://www.afootinthebox.com/peter/e...nd-value-today

    Henry would make more than $2 billion in less than 20 years on a $660M investment (a 300% profit).
    Last edited by moonslav59; 12-10-2019 at 10:45 AM.
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  9. #3324
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Okay, is that the only one out of hundreds of sales over the last century?
    First of all I don't believe there were hundreds of sales over the past century. But over the past hundred years several franchises have lost tons of money and were forced to move due to declining attendance and financial problems. The vaunted LA Dodgers were bankrupt five years ago and were under a MLB mandate to reduce debt before the new ownership group took over. So it does happen perhaps more frequently than one realizes.

  10. #3325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    First of all I don't believe there were hundreds of sales over the past century. But over the past hundred years several franchises have lost tons of money and were forced to move due to declining attendance and financial problems. The vaunted LA Dodgers were bankrupt five years ago and were under a MLB mandate to reduce debt before the new ownership group took over. So it does happen perhaps more frequently than one realizes.
    Good points. I should know better to ever say "never."
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  11. #3326
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    So, Price is a good deal going forward at $32M, but Betts is not worth $50M?

    I'll take Betts at $40M a year over Price + Eovaldi in a heartbeat ($59M/yr).
    My subject was on bad contracts that exists on Sox books as of today.

    You made your point. There's no way I'd pay one individual $40M. We simply have to agree to disagree.

    Don't get upset Moon.

    We all want the same thing, another world series title.

  12. #3327
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    So, Price is a good deal going forward at $32M, but Betts is not worth $50M?

    I'll take Betts at $40M a year over Price + Eovaldi in a heartbeat ($59M/yr).
    Price + Eovaldi have an AAV of $48 mill.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  13. #3328
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    First of all I don't believe there were hundreds of sales over the past century. But over the past hundred years several franchises have lost tons of money and were forced to move due to declining attendance and financial problems. The vaunted LA Dodgers were bankrupt five years ago and were under a MLB mandate to reduce debt before the new ownership group took over. So it does happen perhaps more frequently than one realizes.
    I don't know the details of the bankruptcy you're referring to, but McCourt bought the Dodgers for $430 million in 2004 and sold for $2 billion in 2012.

    The value has now grown to $3.2 billion.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  14. #3329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Price + Eovaldi have an AAV of $48 mill.
    I'm losing my math skills as I age.
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  15. #3330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    My subject was on bad contracts that exists on Sox books as of today.

    You made your point. There's no way I'd pay one individual $40M. We simply have to agree to disagree.

    Don't get upset Moon.

    We all want the same thing, another world series title.
    I have no issues with anyone that thinks $35-40M is too much to pay anyone.

    I see the value in spreading the risk to 3-4 players. I'll be sad, if Betts leaves us, but I know we will spend the savings somewhere, and if Bloom is as good as it appears he is at finding lower cost gems, maybe you will be right.

    I'm not upset. I won't be upset, unless we make poor choices with the savings. That will be years from now.
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