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Thread: A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

  1. #5506
    Farm exists at the pleasure of major league ball club.

    I still think everyone on this board dismisses easily the state of Red Sox when DD was hired. Three last place finishes in four years. Look how alarmed we were last year finishing third and playing above .500 despite depleted starting pitching.

    Henry apparently told him to do whatever it takes to get us out of funk. 4 winning seasons, 3 division championships (I believe first time time in Red Sox history) and a world championship.

    Our current roster is NOT completely devoid of talent. We also have some young talent coming up.

    This is a pessimistic bunch.

    I'm looking forward to Devers repeating his last season and watching younger players making contribution to this ball club.

    I'm happy that my team has one of highest budget in baseball.
    Last edited by Nick; 02-17-2020 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #5507
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Farm exists at the pleasure of major league ball club.

    I still think everyone on this board dismisses easily the state of Red Sox when DD was hired. Three last place finishes in four years. Look how alarmed we were last year finishing third and playing above .500 despite depleted starting pitching.

    Henry apparently told him to do whatever it takes to get us out of funk. 4 winning seasons, 3 division championships (I believe first time time in Red Sox history) and a world championship.

    Our current roster is NOT completely devoid of talent. We also have some young talent coming up.

    This is a pessimistic bunch.

    I'm looking forward to Devers repeating his last season and watching younger players making contribution to this ball club.

    I'm happy that my team has one of highest budget in baseball.
    Many of us wanted and expected many prospects to be traded- not nearly all of them.

    It wasn't an all or nothing choice.

    It was also about who we traded for as much as who we traded away.

    It was also about the quantity of trades.

    Of course the farm is to be sued as the GM wishes, but that does not mean all decisions are beyond reproach.

    As for the 3 last place finishes: going into each of those seasons, we had a lot to be optimistic about.

    We can probably blame one last place on Bobby V.

    We also had a ring between all those bad seasons, so it was not like all was lost, and we had some long extended streak of futility.

    DD was hired the get us a rings, and he did. That doesn't mean all discussion must and will end concerning his possibility of going overboard.

    Even if we all agree, which will never happen here, that every trade was needed to win that ring in 2018, it still does not mean we have deny the effects of all those trades on our future. Sadly, the future came upon us quicker than many of us expected or hoped for, but I guess what bugs me a little, is how some refused to believe this day would ever come.

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  3. #5508
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Farm exists at the pleasure of major league ball club.

    I still think everyone on this board dismisses easily the state of Red Sox when DD was hired. Three last place finishes in four years. Look how alarmed we were last year finishing third and playing above .500 despite depleted starting pitching.

    Henry apparently told him to do whatever it takes to get us out of funk. 4 winning seasons, 3 division championships (I believe first time time in Red Sox history) and a world championship.

    Our current roster is NOT completely devoid of talent. We also have some young talent coming up.

    This is a pessimistic bunch.

    I'm looking forward to Devers repeating his last season and watching younger players making contribution to this ball club.

    I'm happy that my team has one of highest budget in baseball.
    I'm in agreement on most of this.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

  4. #5509
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Many of us wanted and expected many prospects to be traded- not nearly all of them.

    It wasn't an all or nothing choice.

    It was also about who we traded for as much as who we traded away.

    It was also about the quantity of trades.

    Of course the farm is to be sued as the GM wishes, but that does not mean all decisions are beyond reproach.

    As for the 3 last place finishes: going into each of those seasons, we had a lot to be optimistic about.

    We can probably blame one last place on Bobby V.

    We also had a ring between all those bad seasons, so it was not like all was lost, and we had some long extended streak of futility.

    DD was hired the get us a rings, and he did. That doesn't mean all discussion must and will end concerning his possibility of going overboard.

    Even if we all agree, which will never happen here, that every trade was needed to win that ring in 2018, it still does not mean we have deny the effects of all those trades on our future. Sadly, the future came upon us quicker than many of us expected or hoped for, but I guess what bugs me a little, is how some refused to believe this day would ever come.

    From a philosophical perspective, and this is strictly a personal thing, I find talking about the prospects DD traded away gets a little tiresome eventually.

    There's nothing that can be changed about it, and not much that can be learned from it, and it's just not that interesting any more.

    We need to focus on what we do have and what Bloom can do for us.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

  5. #5510
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Many of us wanted and expected many prospects to be traded- not nearly all of them.

    It wasn't an all or nothing choice.

    It was also about who we traded for as much as who we traded away.

    It was also about the quantity of trades.

    Of course the farm is to be sued as the GM wishes, but that does not mean all decisions are beyond reproach.

    As for the 3 last place finishes: going into each of those seasons, we had a lot to be optimistic about.

    We can probably blame one last place on Bobby V.

    We also had a ring between all those bad seasons, so it was not like all was lost, and we had some long extended streak of futility.

    DD was hired the get us a rings, and he did. That doesn't mean all discussion must and will end concerning his possibility of going overboard.

    Even if we all agree, which will never happen here, that every trade was needed to win that ring in 2018, it still does not mean we have deny the effects of all those trades on our future. Sadly, the future came upon us quicker than many of us expected or hoped for, but I guess what bugs me a little, is how some refused to believe this day would ever come.

    We got 1 ring under desperate Dave, however due to his scorched earth policy, we now have a roster bloated with big time contracts, tons of sore armed pitchers and a desolate wasteland of a minor league system.

    How many more rings could we have had if Henry has not been bipolar and kept changing the strategy and GM?

    Ps: if the cassas of today had been in our system six years ago, I doubt he even cracks our top ten!

  6. #5511
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    From a philosophical perspective, and this is strictly a personal thing, I find talking about the prospects DD traded away gets a little tiresome eventually.

    There's nothing that can be changed about it, and not much that can be learned from it, and it's just not that interesting any more.

    We need to focus on what we do have and what Bloom can do for us.
    I hardly ever bring it up, anymore. I'm fine with never talking about it again. We all know each other's positions.

    I guess, once many of the prospects we traded away show what they have, it may be worth revisiting.

    I'm just glad we are refocusing on farm-building. We will need it.
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  7. #5512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    We got 1 ring under desperate Dave, however due to his scorched earth policy, we now have a roster bloated with big time contracts, tons of sore armed pitchers and a desolate wasteland of a minor league system.

    How many more rings could we have had if Henry has not been bipolar and kept changing the strategy and GM?

    Ps: if the cassas of today had been in our system six years ago, I doubt he even cracks our top ten!
    I wish we kept Ben, but I'm not going all psycho analytical on Henry. The guy is a hero.

    I'm not getting all the hatred being spewed towards him. Even the 2020 team will be a top 4 or 5 spending team.
    Sox 4 Ever

  8. #5513
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Agreed, and if you take each major DD trade made, here's what I thought of them at the time of the deal:

    Kimbrel: hated it due to too many prospects given and CK not being a financial bargain
    Pomeranz: disliked the trade not Pom. Thought a bigger package with maybe some from the CK trade could have gotten us better.
    Sale: loved it and still do.
    Thornburg: liked it
    Nunez, Kinsler, Eovaldi & Reed: liked them.

    We likely could have won without Pom, Thornburg, Kinsler and Reed, but taking back just those trades (in hindsight) would not greatly improve our farm or future outlook all that much.

    Winning without Kimbrel and or Sale is another issue.
    I would have never done the Kimbrel deal.

    Also, I thought the trade for Sale was overkill.

    Yes, I know I am in a very small minority with those opinions.

  9. #5514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I would have never done the Kimbrel deal.

    Also, I thought the trade for Sale was overkill.

    Yes, I know I am in a very small minority with those opinions.
    Agree on Kimbrel Not on Sale. No way to get a player of Sale's ability on that dirt cheap contract without giving up quality and quantity. If the Sox did not give up Moncada and Kopech plus, another team would have acquired Sale...

  10. #5515
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Now as for Bloom

    I at least understand why the Mookie trade was made.

    But his lack of low level activity is disheartening. Get some guys on MiLB contracts!!

    So far, Aaron Loup, Trevor Rosenthal, Dan Otero, Blake Parker, Nick Vincent, Luis Avilan, Greg Bird, Matt Adams, Derek Dietrich, Joe Panik, Jared Hughes, Chad Bettis, Tommy Milone, AJ Cole, Brad Boxberger, Juan Minaya, Yimi Garcia, Jacob Burnes, Yolmer Sanchez, Derek Law, Dylan Covey, Nick Tropeano, Jared Eickoff, Justin Bour, Kyle Barraclaugh, Zack Godley, and Greg Holland and others have signed MiLB contracts, none of them with Boston.

    I'm sure the Sox could have used at least one of these guys, most likely more. If for no other reason than depth...
    I agree that Bloom should be signing pitchers to minor league contracts. As many as he realistically can. I'm not sure why he hasn't yet, but maybe he has bigger plans up his sleeve?

    If not, this will be a criticism that I will carry all season.

  11. #5516
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Farm exists at the pleasure of major league ball club.

    I still think everyone on this board dismisses easily the state of Red Sox when DD was hired. Three last place finishes in four years. Look how alarmed we were last year finishing third and playing above .500 despite depleted starting pitching.

    Henry apparently told him to do whatever it takes to get us out of funk. 4 winning seasons, 3 division championships (I believe first time time in Red Sox history) and a world championship.

    Our current roster is NOT completely devoid of talent. We also have some young talent coming up.

    This is a pessimistic bunch.

    I'm looking forward to Devers repeating his last season and watching younger players making contribution to this ball club.

    I'm happy that my team has one of highest budget in baseball.
    The Red Sox will make some noise in 2020.

    Book it!

  12. #5517
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Agree on Kimbrel Not on Sale. No way to get a player of Sale's ability on that dirt cheap contract without giving up quality and quantity. If the Sox did not give up Moncada and Kopech plus, another team would have acquired Sale...
    I'm not saying the package for Sale was that bad. I'm saying that we didn't need to acquire Sale.

    {Ducks for cover}

  13. #5518
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I'm not saying the package for Sale was that bad. I'm saying that we didn't need to acquire Sale.

    {Ducks for cover}
    Everyone knows how I feel about Sale, but we very well may have won without him.
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  14. #5519
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Everyone knows how I feel about Sale, but we very well may have won without him.
    It's impossible to know one way or another, but we have the championship, so that trumps everything else.

    I know I criticize Dombrowski a lot for his moves, and will likely continue to do so, but the bottom line is that we won a WS during his tenure, which makes all the heartache over the farm and the cliff worth it.

  15. #5520
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    It's impossible to know one way or another, but we have the championship, so that trumps everything else.

    I know I criticize Dombrowski a lot for his moves, and will likely continue to do so, but the bottom line is that we won a WS during his tenure, which makes all the heartache over the farm and the cliff worth it.
    Agreed, and with the "crap shoot" aspect to the playoffs, maybe some overkill is needed to ensure getting the ring.
    Sox 4 Ever

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