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Thread: A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

  1. #5491
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    Question for Red Sox fans. Let's say Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, totally healthy, arm looks great, velocity way up, striking people out, and is on pace to have one of his best seasons in 2020.

    Do you trade Sale at the deadline for a motherload of prospects? If Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, teams will be lining up to trade for him, since a dominant Sale can be the difference between winning and losing in the postseason. Or would you hold on to Sale with the goal of competing over the next few seasons?
    Hold on hard.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

  2. #5492
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    Question for Red Sox fans. Let's say Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, totally healthy, arm looks great, velocity way up, striking people out, and is on pace to have one of his best seasons in 2020.

    Do you trade Sale at the deadline for a motherload of prospects? If Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, teams will be lining up to trade for him, since a dominant Sale can be the difference between winning and losing in the postseason. Or would you hold on to Sale with the goal of competing over the next few seasons?
    You need an ace to compete and contend. Trading Sale would further diminish the Sox chances at either. Prospects are just prospects.

    Players on Hall of Fame paths like Betts and Sale are the cornerstones contenders are built around. If the Red Sox trade their ace, they'll just be searching, and if history shows -- overspending -- trying to replace him with someone else. Just like they're probably going to with Mookie...

  3. #5493
    TalkSox Godhead mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    Question for Red Sox fans. Let's say Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, totally healthy, arm looks great, velocity way up, striking people out, and is on pace to have one of his best seasons in 2020.

    Do you trade Sale at the deadline for a motherload of prospects? If Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, teams will be lining up to trade for him, since a dominant Sale can be the difference between winning and losing in the postseason. Or would you hold on to Sale with the goal of competing over the next few seasons?
    I only trade him if my medical staff is advising me that he's likely to break down or diminish as a player in the near future. Otherwise, ride or die. Re-sign Betts in the offseason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Remy View Post
    ďNow Iím not sure why it was necessary, but watch ... I canít circle because I donít have my telestrator but HERE COMES THE PIZZA, see?Ē

  4. #5494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    Question for Red Sox fans. Let's say Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, totally healthy, arm looks great, velocity way up, striking people out, and is on pace to have one of his best seasons in 2020.

    Do you trade Sale at the deadline for a motherload of prospects? If Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, teams will be lining up to trade for him, since a dominant Sale can be the difference between winning and losing in the postseason. Or would you hold on to Sale with the goal of competing over the next few seasons?
    depends on the motherload. if Los Dodgers offered lux, may, gray or Pads offered gore, patino, trammel i would have to give it serious serious consideration....
    other names i have posted under: none

  5. #5495
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    The White Sox become the team to beat in 2020 with the signing of Gorkys Hernandez.

  6. #5496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    also.....when you "give away" prospects in a deal that you could have made with far less (see: kimbrel, pom) those players that were given away willy nilly could have been used to get the other players (see: Sale). perhaps we could have moncada as our cost controlled starting 2bman and a young stud pitcher making his way back from TJS (espy)....
    ^^ This

    I don't necessarily agree with the specific trades that you've mentioned, but I agree with your overall point.

  7. #5497
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    Question for Red Sox fans. Let's say Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, totally healthy, arm looks great, velocity way up, striking people out, and is on pace to have one of his best seasons in 2020.

    Do you trade Sale at the deadline for a motherload of prospects? If Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, teams will be lining up to trade for him, since a dominant Sale can be the difference between winning and losing in the postseason. Or would you hold on to Sale with the goal of competing over the next few seasons?
    Definitely keep him. If Chris Sale becomes Chris Sale again, he will be a bargain.

  8. #5498
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    ^^ This

    I don't necessarily agree with the specific trades that you've mentioned, but I agree with your overall point.
    Moncada auditioned at 3B for a reason. We had Pedey under contract through 2021 season.

    Our baseball people further determined that Devers was better 3B.

    It took Kopech and Devers to get an ace with very reasonable cost.

    Let's not conflate Sale's new contract extension with the contract we inherited.

    It was a great trade.

    Just ask Freakin' Moon.

    Thus, Devers and Kopech is not part of 'decimating' the farm conversation. We got a great player for two prospects.
    Last edited by Nick; 02-17-2020 at 05:41 PM.

  9. #5499
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Moncada auditioned at 3B for a reason. We had Pedey under contract through 2021 season.

    Our baseball people further determined that Devers was better 3B.

    It took Kopech and Devers to get an ace with very reasonable cost.

    Let's not conflate Sale's new contract extension with the contract we inherited.

    It was a great trade.

    Just ask Freakin' Moon.

    Thus, Devers and Kopech is not part of 'decimating' the farm conversation. We got a great player for two prospects.
    It's not necessarily any one trade that I have an issue with, it's the magnitude of the prospects traded away.

    Personally, I am okay with the Sale extension.

  10. #5500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Moncada auditioned at 3B for a reason. We had Pedey under contract through 2021 season.

    Our baseball people further determined that Devers was better 3B.

    It took Kopech and Devers to get an ace with very reasonable cost.

    Let's not conflate Sale's new contract extension with the contract we inherited.

    It was a great trade.

    Just ask Freakin' Moon.

    Thus, Moncada and Kopech is not part of 'decimating' the farm conversation. We got a great player for two prospects.
    I changed Devers to Moncada.

    I'm still very happy we traded for Sale and resigned him. I am very confident he will return to form.

    That being said, trading Moncada and Kopech were part of decimating the farm. I think it was a worthy part of the whole decimation, but they were part of it.

    When Sale returns to form, we should not trade him. He is a big part of the rebuild plan. He's part of the core we build around- Sale, Bogey & Devers.

    We all await the glorious return of...

    Chris Freakin' Sale!

    Sox 4 Ever

  11. #5501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Moncada auditioned at 3B for a reason. We had Pedey under contract through 2021 season.

    Our baseball people further determined that Devers was better 3B.

    It took Kopech and Devers to get an ace with very reasonable cost.

    Let's not conflate Sale's new contract extension with the contract we inherited.

    It was a great trade.

    Just ask Freakin' Moon.

    Thus, Devers and Kopech is not part of 'decimating' the farm conversation. We got a great player for two prospects.
    Well, they are. That's like saying that if you deplete your bank account to buy your dream home, it really isn't depleted because it's, well, your dream home.

    It's a good thing when you decimate the farm and are happy with the return. but that doesn't make the famr any better. And the Sox have reached a point where the big contracts have prohibited MLB acquisitions and the farm can do very little or them.

    Also, I think you meant Moncada...

  12. #5502
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    It's not necessarily any one trade that I have an issue with, it's the magnitude of the prospects traded away.

    Personally, I am okay with the Sale extension.
    Agreed, and if you take each major DD trade made, here's what I thought of them at the time of the deal:

    Kimbrel: hated it due to too many prospects given and CK not being a financial bargain
    Pomeranz: disliked the trade not Pom. Thought a bigger package with maybe some from the CK trade could have gotten us better.
    Sale: loved it and still do.
    Thornburg: liked it
    Nunez, Kinsler, Eovaldi & Reed: liked them.

    We likely could have won without Pom, Thornburg, Kinsler and Reed, but taking back just those trades (in hindsight) would not greatly improve our farm or future outlook all that much.

    Winning without Kimbrel and or Sale is another issue.
    Sox 4 Ever

  13. #5503
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Agreed, and if you take each major DD trade made, here's what I thought of them at the time of the deal:

    Kimbrel: hated it due to too many prospects given and CK not being a financial bargain
    Pomeranz: disliked the trade not Pom. Thought a bigger package with maybe some from the CK trade could have gotten us better.
    Sale: loved it and still do.
    Thornburg: liked it
    Nunez, Kinsler, Eovaldi & Reed: liked them.

    We likely could have won without Pom, Thornburg, Kinsler and Reed, but taking back just those trades (in hindsight) would not greatly improve our farm or future outlook all that much.

    Winning without Kimbrel and or Sale is another issue.
    The problem with the Pomeranz trade was the whole medical file switcheroo pulled by Preller, and the Sox did nothing about it. They knowingly accepted damaged goods, and he pitched like it the remainder of the year. A healthy Pomeranz was a deserving All Star that season and normally well worth the A ball prospect. I consider it charma that Espinoza has barely thrown a pitch since that trade.

    The Kimbrel trade was a massive overpay IMO.

    Sale costs was about right. But that doesn't mean it didn't deplete the farm and that the prospects dealt away had no potential future in Boston. It was the cost of doing business. But there was a hidden cost the Sox are paying now. Now Sale's extension raised some questions. The fact that he signed a deal that cheap for that short of a period absolutely raised questions about his health, at least to me. But he certainly showed elite talent last year when healthy after a slow Cora-induced start...

    Eovaldi was a good trade but a stupid extension...

  14. #5504
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    Now as for Bloom

    I at least understand why the Mookie trade was made.

    But his lack of low level activity is disheartening. Get some guys on MiLB contracts!!

    So far, Aaron Loup, Trevor Rosenthal, Dan Otero, Blake Parker, Nick Vincent, Luis Avilan, Greg Bird, Matt Adams, Derek Dietrich, Joe Panik, Jared Hughes, Chad Bettis, Tommy Milone, AJ Cole, Brad Boxberger, Juan Minaya, Yimi Garcia, Jacob Burnes, Yolmer Sanchez, Derek Law, Dylan Covey, Nick Tropeano, Jared Eickoff, Justin Bour, Kyle Barraclaugh, Zack Godley, and Greg Holland and others have signed MiLB contracts, none of them with Boston.

    I'm sure the Sox could have used at least one of these guys, most likely more. If for no other reason than depth...

  15. #5505
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    DD traded these top prospects (soxprospects.com highest ranking):

    1 Y Moncada
    3 A Espinoza
    3 M Margot
    5 D Marrero
    6 J Guerra
    5 M Kopech
    5 J Beeks
    7 L Basabe
    9 M Dubon
    11 S Anderson
    13 L Allen
    16 B Taylor
    17 T Buttrey
    17 W Jerez
    18 L Basabe
    20 C Asuaje
    20 S Nogosek
    Sox 4 Ever

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