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Thread: Not a popular stance .Extend JBJ 3 years 21 million

  1. #1

    Not a popular stance .Extend JBJ 3 years 21 million

    Yes flame away but I've seen enough of Mookie and Benny in CF to see what we are in store for .I would hope JDM becomes a DH only player and or opts out this year .I would look to get DD to play second base as our big acquisition for position players .Trade price if at all possible and Sale .I would then try like the Dickens to get Cole .Cole,Erod Evoldi ,Webber rotation .Devers Xander ,DD ,Chavis infield same outfield .DH JDM likely or maybe Edwin ? Is he available ? I just think DD would be a great fit personality and talent wise .What say you ?Flame away !!!!

  2. #2
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    Yes to Didi, but it depends on the price. No to Cole because we know this will be an OverPrice. A real down year for free agents, I think. We have make trades or hope that Sale or Price can nearly equal Cole's 2020 season--and be our Cole.

  3. #3
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Nope & nope.

    Reset in 2020!
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Nope & nope.

    Reset in 2020!
    Lol yes very likely but come on DD atleast ?

  5. #5
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiharts Ghost View Post
    Lol yes very likely but come on DD atleast ?
    Nope on DD for 2020.
    Sox 4 Ever

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swiharts Ghost View Post
    Yes flame away but I've seen enough of Mookie and Benny in CF to see what we are in store for .I would hope JDM becomes a DH only player and or opts out this year .I would look to get DD to play second base as our big acquisition for position players .Trade price if at all possible and Sale .I would then try like the Dickens to get Cole .Cole,Erod Evoldi ,Webber rotation .Devers Xander ,DD ,Chavis infield same outfield .DH JDM likely or maybe Edwin ? Is he available ? I just think DD would be a great fit personality and talent wise .What say you ?Flame away !!!!
    I would love to see the team head in the direction of a good hitter at every position. Hard to do, but other teams have accomplished it. JBJ will never be a good hitter, steaky at best. Leon is the same and our second and first base positions have been weak due to injuries and to lack of talent. At least try to retain our good guys and improve where we are weak. Get rid of guys who won't help us in 2021 and 2022.

    Of course starting pitching is our weakest position, followed by our pen.

    We have significant limitations with all the money tied up in Price, Sale, Eovaldi and Pedroia. Those 4 alone are paid more than the total budget of Oakland. We also have one of the, if not the weakest farm systems. Reset this year, bring in some low cost minor league types who may be better than ones we have and try to avoid making the same contract mistakes of the past. Draft better and develop what we have. That probably means say bye bye to DD.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fxkatt View Post
    Yes to Didi, but it depends on the price. No to Cole because we know this will be an OverPrice. A real down year for free agents, I think. We have make trades or hope that Sale or Price can nearly equal Cole's 2020 season--and be our Cole.
    Will price ever have a healthy season here on in ? I just can't see it .Sale and Price are the reset .

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
    I would love to see the team head in the direction of a good hitter at every position. Hard to do, but other teams have accomplished it. JBJ will never be a good hitter, steaky at best. Leon is the same and our second and first base positions have been weak due to injuries and to lack of talent. At least try to retain our good guys and improve where we are weak. Get rid of guys who won't help us in 2021 and 2022.

    Of course starting pitching is our weakest position, followed by our pen.

    We have significant limitations with all the money tied up in Price, Sale, Eovaldi and Pedroia. Those 4 alone are paid more than the total budget of Oakland. We also have one of the, if not the weakest farm systems. Reset this year, bring in some low cost minor league types who may be better than ones we have and try to avoid making the same contract mistakes of the past. Draft better and develop what we have. That probably means say bye bye to DD.
    in a perfect world JDM opts out we trade price and Sale takes HGH all off season to heal up .

  9. #9
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
    I would love to see the team head in the direction of a good hitter at every position. Hard to do, but other teams have accomplished it. JBJ will never be a good hitter, steaky at best. Leon is the same and our second and first base positions have been weak due to injuries and to lack of talent. At least try to retain our good guys and improve where we are weak. Get rid of guys who won't help us in 2021 and 2022.

    Of course starting pitching is our weakest position, followed by our pen.

    We have significant limitations with all the money tied up in Price, Sale, Eovaldi and Pedroia. Those 4 alone are paid more than the total budget of Oakland. We also have one of the, if not the weakest farm systems. Reset this year, bring in some low cost minor league types who may be better than ones we have and try to avoid making the same contract mistakes of the past. Draft better and develop what we have. That probably means say bye bye to DD.
    We just had good hitters at every position plus some on the bench.

    Our pitching let us down. My hope is all these down years were just that- one year downs.

    Our top 4 players by PAs are all over .909.
    7 of our top 10 players by PAs are over .807 OPS.
    9 of our top 10 are over .766.
    All 10 are over .724.
    No black holes until you get to #12 in PAs, Leon, at .536.
    We also have Marco at .781. He'll end up 14th in PAs.
    That's 11 guys over .724 and 10 over .766.

    If we lose JBJ (.724 at 6th in PAs), Moreland (.838 and 9th in PAs) and Holt (.815 at 10th in PAs), we may still have 7 returning guys over .766, this year and all 9 over .700.

    C .767 Vaz
    1B .766 Chavis
    2B .781 Marco
    3B .932 Devers
    SS .955 Bogey
    LF .701 Travis
    CF .807 Beni
    RF .909 Betts
    DH .968 JD


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  10. #10
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiharts Ghost View Post
    in a perfect world JDM opts out we trade price and Sale takes HGH all off season to heal up .
    We don't need JD to opt out to reset, but it would give us more wiggle room.

    My guess is he opts out after 2020, and if we reset next year, I guess it wouldn't really help having him here in 2020, unless we surprise everybody and compete during the reset.

    It's not impossible. Losing Porcello and Cashner are additions by subtraction (looking at just 2019 vs 2020). Losing JBJ, Holt, Moreland & Pearce could hurt, but we'll still have a solid 7-8 everyday players.
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  11. #11
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    Losing JBJ, and finding a reasonable CF or RF (can't be picky) should not be all that difficult. Travis has probably shown enough to plug him into a corner as a worst case.

    This year I think is a bit of an aberration, in that the pitching was all bad at the same time. The only exception was Rodriguez, and even he was more an "above average" outcome than a crazy outlier. I guess I should say Workman as well.

    Position player wise the team is fine.

    C: Vasquez - Quality Starter
    1B, 2B: Open to ideas
    3B: Devers - Sure looks like a Superstar very soon
    SS: Bogaerts - A not quite superstar
    LF: Benintendi - A very good player, if not quite a star
    CF: Bradley - decent starter
    RF: Betts - actual Superstar
    DH: Martinez - A not quite superstar but absolute stud

  12. #12
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    Losing JBJ, and finding a reasonable CF or RF (can't be picky) should not be all that difficult. Travis has probably shown enough to plug him into a corner as a worst case.

    This year I think is a bit of an aberration, in that the pitching was all bad at the same time. The only exception was Rodriguez, and even he was more an "above average" outcome than a crazy outlier. I guess I should say Workman as well.

    Position player wise the team is fine.

    C: Vasquez - Quality Starter
    1B, 2B: Open to ideas
    3B: Devers - Sure looks like a Superstar very soon
    SS: Bogaerts - A not quite superstar
    LF: Benintendi - A very good player, if not quite a star
    CF: Bradley - decent starter
    RF: Betts - actual Superstar
    DH: Martinez - A not quite superstar but absolute stud
    Walden & Taylor did well, too.
    Sox 4 Ever

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiharts Ghost View Post
    in a perfect world JDM opts out we trade price and Sale takes HGH all off season to heal up .
    I don't want JD to opt out, but I really think his playing time in the field should be limited to playing in NL parks or in the case of injury to one of our starting outfielders.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    We just had good hitters at every position plus some on the bench.

    Our pitching let us down. My hope is all these down years were just that- one year downs.

    Our top 4 players by PAs are all over .909.
    7 of our top 10 players by PAs are over .807 OPS.
    9 of our top 10 are over .766.
    All 10 are over .724.
    No black holes until you get to #12 in PAs, Leon, at .536.
    We also have Marco at .781. He'll end up 14th in PAs.
    That's 11 guys over .724 and 10 over .766.

    If we lose JBJ (.724 at 6th in PAs), Moreland (.838 and 9th in PAs) and Holt (.815 at 10th in PAs), we may still have 7 returning guys over .766, this year and all 9 over .700.

    C .767 Vaz
    1B .766 Chavis
    2B .781 Marco
    3B .932 Devers
    SS .955 Bogey
    LF .701 Travis
    CF .807 Beni
    RF .909 Betts
    DH .968 JD


    Vaz doesn't play every day, Travis is a marginal hitter, JBJ is streaky, going from awful to decent. Right now he is back to bad. When those guys are in the game we sacrafice 3 abs an inning. I'm for improving while cutting payroll everywhere possible. Our top 7 are as good as anyone's but they shouldn't have to carry all the load. We heard the same kind of arguments for the past few years. JBJ hasn't improved but his salary expectations have crept up.

    I agree that the starting pitching is a key going forward and the BP could use a closer and maybe a couple of good arms. Hard to do that if we wind up offering JBJ a 3 year $21 mil contract, don't you think? I know you didn't suggest that but another did and it sounds like going in the wrong direction.

  15. #15
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I don't want JD to opt out, but I really think his playing time in the field should be limited to playing in NL parks or in the case of injury to one of our starting outfielders.
    I'd like to see us acquire a dirt cheap super defensive CF'er for next season. I don't care about his offense.

    Keep JD at DH, except in NL parks.

    Let Chavis, Marco, Lin and Chatham fight for the 2B job, and Chavis, Dalbec, Travis and Ockimey fight for the 1B (back up DH) job.

    Let DHern, Houck, Johnson, Velazquez and Shawaryn fight for the 5 slot and long relief role.

    Maybe Ward, Hart or Feltman may be ready by mid season. (Mata by Sept?)

    Don't spend a penny unless we can stay under the luxury tax and the player looks to be part of a longer term plan.

    Team control/Age at end of team control (Oct 1st)
    0
    Porcello 30
    Moreland 33
    Pearce 36
    Cashner 32
    Holt 30
    Owings 27
    (I like Holt, but I doubt we go over the luxury tax to keep him. All others should be gone.)

    1yr (FA after 2020) Age 10/1/20
    Betts 27 (28 on Oct 7, 2020)
    JBJ 30
    Workman 31
    (Betts should probably be traded, if we know we cannot or will not extend or re-sign him. Workman turns 31 and does not have a long track record of success and health. He should probably be traded, assuming a reset.)

    2yr (FA after 2021) Age on 10/1/2021
    ERod 28
    Pedey 38
    Barnes 31
    Hembree 32
    (ERod is worth extending or re-signing after the reset. His age is right. Pedey is a no brainer. Barnes and Hembree will likely be gone.)

    3yr (after 2022)
    Price 36
    JD 34 (if he doesn't opt out)
    Eovaldi 32
    Beni 27
    Wright 38
    Leon 33
    (Beni is the only one in this group that might possibly be extended, and he'll be in prime years for 2021 and 2022, if those are the years we plan on being back near the top. If the rebuild is a 3 year plan, I suppose we could trade him.

    Sale may be traded, if he can build up some stick value and we want to clear budget space for alonger term rebuild.

    Explore trading anyone who does not look like they are in our plans for or beyond 2021. Maybe even trade guys not under team control or still within near post-prime for 2022.
    Sox 4 Ever

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